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game mechanic abuse/bug: A-D toggling

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Quil Evrything Triple Terrors 856	Posted - 2014.01.31 00:50:00 - [1] - Quote (I'm copying this here, from my post in a General thread, because I think this needs to be treated as a bug) XxGhazbaranxX wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: In the past the KB/M put you at a huge advantage because you can spam a/d to strafe faster than a DS3 could, making KB/M players impossible to kill in CQC. strafing speed is always the same. Be it DS3 or KB/M. That is a true statement. However, it doesnt touch the actual issue, which is spamming the a-d keys. So, to be more accurate, while KBD doesnt change 'strafe speed', it does change 'strafe DELTA speed'. In other words, with KBM, you can go from moving 5m/sec west, to 5m/s east, instantly. You cant do that with a controller. (nor can you do that in real life. It's called "conservation of momentum") That is what is OP about KBM, and badly badly needs to be fixed. It is literally impossible to stay on-target when someone abuses this broken game mechanic. At best, you can get bullets on target maybe 1/3 of the time (unless maybe you're using HMG against them or something). I dont know why BL4CKST4R claims "in the past", because as far as I'm aware, the broken mechanic is still present.
Sylwester Dziewiecki Interregnum. 252	Posted - 2014.01.31 09:10:00 - [2] - Quote This explains me why sometimes Assault 'dances' are more effective than my own(DS3 Scout) at CC. I'm here since may 2012, my EVE alter ego is Nosum Hseebnrido.
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1050	Posted - 2014.01.31 19:38:00 - [3] - Quote I've been pointing at this issue since Chromosome, but to no avail.... kb/m players complain about aim assist, but this is 10x more advantageous than any aimbot I've ever seen MAG ~ Raven
jordy mack Ultramarine Corp 140	Posted - 2014.02.02 01:50:00 - [4] - Quote Really? I couldn't pick the difference, I think what's really going on here is someone killed u in a really fast cko or something and you just can't get ur head around it. No need for m/kb fearmongering bro. Less QQ more PewPew
Dagger-Two Tharumec 221	Posted - 2014.02.02 02:31:00 - [5] - Quote I play with KB/M , and I can not strafe side to side like a lot of the people I come up against. Hell, I feel like my side to side movement is slower on the KB than with the DS3. That being said, the strafing in general is stupid and needs to be addressed IMO. Playing since 1st batch of closed beta keys.
Quil Evrything Triple Terrors 878	Posted - 2014.02.02 05:36:00 - [6] - Quote Dagger-Two wrote: I play with KB/M , and I can not strafe side to side like a lot of the people I come up against. Hell, I feel like my side to side movement is slower on the KB than with the DS3. You've got to have limber fingers. Playing piano, or being able to type 60wpm, helps.
Doshneil Antaro Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 187	Posted - 2014.02.02 10:17:00 - [7] - Quote I honestly don't know a single logi, assault, or scout that still uses the KB/M. Its really only helpful for snipers, and tanks using KB for movement, DS3 for aiming and modules. The aim assist trumps most KB/m too much to play with it on a competitve level. Add to it that the KB/m also has input delays way too often, and even snipers find it problematic. Can you imagine pulling the trigger and it taking up to 1/4 of a second to fire? There is also the issue of the radial wheel tied to the same control input that also does the turning of your character. To select a piece of equipment, or squad orders, you often times skew the direction your are facing, most notibly after selected looking up in the sky. Almost forgot about the horrid placement of the grenade button. It is directly under your up/down buttons. If you decide to try to cook a grenade, you must move your fingers akwardly under your movement keys. While holding the frag, moving forward and backwards in nearly impossible due to this.
ANON Cerberus Tiny Toons 291	Posted - 2014.02.03 11:16:00 - [8] - Quote I have both methods of control. I have tested this out extensively and it is EXACTLY THE SAME for KB/M and DS3 controller. Go and try it yourselves. KB/M is already gimped enough as it is.
Kristoff Atruin Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1613	Posted - 2014.02.03 13:51:00 - [9] - Quote As others have said, A/D toggling is a myth created and perpetuated people who are buttmad over dying. Not only does it not work, it'll get you killed faster by turning on the aimbot for the guy you're trying to avoid taking damage from. Once that thing is turned on you're going to die in a second or two even if you move behind a wall.
Sylwester Dziewiecki Interregnum. 254	Posted - 2014.02.03 14:44:00 - [10] - Quote Kristoff Atruin wrote: (...)A/D toggling is a myth created and perpetuated people who are buttmad over dying. Not only does it not work, it'll get you killed faster by turning on the aimbot for the guy you're trying to avoid taking damage from. Once that thing is turned on you're going to die in a second or two even if you move behind a wall. This topic is not about aim-assist, killing each other, or dying in horrible pain. Its about advantages that are given to players that use KB/M over those who use DS3. If you disagree with statement that: Quil Evrything wrote: with KBM, you can go from moving 5m/sec west, to 5m/s east, instantly. You cant do that with a controller. give us movie that clearly tell otherwise and presents the proof - every singiel "myth" go away when you put some light on it. I'm here since may 2012, my EVE alter ego is Nosum Hseebnrido.

Kristoff Atruin Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1613	Posted - 2014.02.03 15:29:00 - [11] - Quote This topic has everything to do with aim assist, because the A/D toggling that is supposedly OP doesn't allow you to avoid damage, it makes you die more quickly. DS3 is far superior to KB/M right now.
ANON Cerberus Tiny Toons 296	Posted - 2014.02.03 15:55:00 - [12] - Quote Guys seriously, the only way you can't do the same thing on the DS3 with strafing as you can on the KB/M is if you have chubby ass slow thumbs. If you press the left analogue stick left and right fast, it does the EXACT same as the mouse and keyboard guy pressing A and D fast. I have tested this myself! And lets be honest KB/M is gimped! In close to mid range engagements Aim assist is very overpowering and I rarely win head on battles with the KB/M. Back in chromosome I would win a lot more head on 1 v 1 engagements so it is not because I am a terrible player. AA and bullet magnetism needs to be removed. How can you enjoy playing a FPS game that does all of the work for you and ALSO gives you an incredible advantage?
Quil Evrything Triple Terrors 883	Posted - 2014.02.03 17:30:00 - [13] - Quote Kristoff Atruin wrote: This topic has everything to do with aim assist, because the A/D toggling that is supposedly OP doesn't allow you to avoid damage, it makes you die more quickly. If you are closer than a certain distance (20m? not sure exactly) doing it right, breaks aim assist. ANON Cerberus wrote: Guys seriously, the only way you can't do the same thing on the DS3 with strafing as you can on the KB/M is if you have chubby ass slow thumbs. If you press the left analogue stick left and right fast, it does the EXACT same as the mouse and keyboard guy pressing A and D fast. I have tested this myself! All this test proves, is that you have "chubby ass slow fingers", as you put it. Just 'cause you cant do it, doesnt mean it cant be done. Multiple people have posted in this thread confirming they've seen the results in action. So just give up the attempts at KBM coverup/denials already.
ANON Cerberus Tiny Toons 299	Posted - 2014.02.03 20:47:00 - [14] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: Kristoff Atruin wrote: This topic has everything to do with aim assist, because the A/D toggling that is supposedly OP doesn't allow you to avoid damage, it makes you die more quickly. If you are closer than a certain distance (20m? not sure exactly) doing it right, breaks aim assist. ANON Cerberus wrote: Guys seriously, the only way you can't do the same thing on the DS3 with strafing as you can on the KB/M is if you have chubby ass slow thumbs. If you press the left analogue stick left and right fast, it does the EXACT same as the mouse and keyboard guy pressing A and D fast. I have tested this myself! All this test proves, is that you have "chubby ass slow fingers", as you put it. Just 'cause you cant do it, doesnt mean it cant be done. Multiple people have posted in this thread confirming they've seen the results in action. So just give up the attempts at KBM coverup/denials already. What are you talking about!? lol. Its the same. Right I tell you what, I will get my phone camera out and make a video showing the non difference between the two devices.
Sylwester Dziewiecki Interregnum. 257	Posted - 2014.02.03 22:07:00 - [15] - Quote ANON Cerberus wrote: Right I tell you what, I will get my phone camera out and make a video showing the non difference between the two devices. Did you ever try to walk extremely slow in WarBarage while using DS3? Try it again but this time use your KB/M - I'm deadly curious how it's gonna work for you. I'm here since may 2012, my EVE alter ego is Nosum Hseebnrido.
ANON Cerberus Tiny Toons 303	Posted - 2014.02.04 01:00:00 - [16] - Quote Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote: ANON Cerberus wrote: Right I tell you what, I will get my phone camera out and make a video showing the non difference between the two devices. Did you ever try to walk extremely slow in WarBarage while using DS3? Try it again but this time use your KB/M - I'm deadly curious how it's gonna work for you. I would have to feather the key if I want to emulate walking slow. There is no granular sensitivity on the KB/M only 0 or . The DS3 controller has sensitivity and just incase you try and say "well there we go" you can move the stick from off to fully in one direction fast if you want to. I wasn't able to get any video tonight as I just got black screens.
INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC Intara Direct Action Caldari State 245	Posted - 2014.02.04 15:19:00 - [17] - Quote Dagger-Two wrote: I play with KB/M , and I can not strafe side to side like a lot of the people I come up against. Hell, I feel like my side to side movement is slower on the KB than with the DS3. That being said, the strafing in general is stupid and needs to be addressed IMO. Strafeing is a core mechanic to any shooter.
Very Nasty Cold Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 1	Posted - 2014.02.04 15:55:00 - [18] - Quote Kristoff Atruin wrote: As others have said, A/D toggling is a myth created and perpetuated people who are buttmad over dying. Not only does it not work, it'll get you killed faster by turning on the aimbot for the guy you're trying to avoid taking damage from. Once that thing is turned on you're going to die in a second or two even if you move behind a wall. No it's not a myth. Only those who simply play the game for only 200 or less kills a week and thus don't put in the time to know jack about it would suggest such a thing..people like...you. Casuals attempting to voice opinions over an intricate matter you know nothing about. And instead of doing videos to prove it one way or the other...we have idiots like you. KBM strafe > DS3 strafe and it's a huge factor when a KBM user masters it. Changing the spotlight doesn't make it less of an issue.
Kristoff Atruin Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1615	Posted - 2014.02.04 17:54:00 - [19] - Quote Very Nasty Cold wrote: Kristoff Atruin wrote: As others have said, A/D toggling is a myth created and perpetuated people who are buttmad over dying. Not only does it not work, it'll get you killed faster by turning on the aimbot for the guy you're trying to avoid taking damage from. Once that thing is turned on you're going to die in a second or two even if you move behind a wall. No it's not a myth. Only those who simply play the game for only 200 or less kills a week and thus don't put in the time to know jack about it would suggest such a thing..people like...you. Casuals attempting to voice opinions over an intricate matter you know nothing about. And instead of doing videos to prove it one way or the other...we have idiots like you. KBM strafe > DS3 strafe and it's a huge factor when a KBM user masters it. Changing the spotlight doesn't make it less of an issue. You've been playing since August of last year. I've been playing since Mordu's Private Trials, spring of 2012. That means I've been playing this game at least 14 months longer than you. If there's someone that doesn't know jack in this conversation it certainly isn't me. How about instead of asking people to make a video proving a negative, which is impossible since you'd just say we were faking our results, the people making the claim go and make a video showing how they're able to "toggle" with a keyboard and dodge bullets. AA completely negates the minor difference in acceleration. There's a reason why the top killers in Dust have always been DS3 users. I suspect that it isn't because KBM is OP. Seriously, I dare you. Go plug in a mouse and a keyboard, record some videos of how you could dodge bullets and then share it with us.
Dagger-Two Tharumec 227	Posted - 2014.02.05 22:36:00 - [20] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: Dagger-Two wrote: I play with KB/M , and I can not strafe side to side like a lot of the people I come up against. Hell, I feel like my side to side movement is slower on the KB than with the DS3. You've got to have limber fingers. Playing piano, or being able to type 60wpm, helps. Fingers don't have to be all that limber to press two buttons, an inch away from one another. That being said, I play piano (and guitar...and the clarinet.......shut up!) and i can type 60+ words per minute just fine. I don't consider either of these any sort of achievement, I'm just saying I think theres more to it than that. And yes, Infinite, strafing is a core mechanic, but it doesn't hurt to make it at least sonewhat realistic in feel. Pretend you're holding a rifle, now try and move side to side as fast as you can and keep your upper body nice and still. (beter yet if you have a toy/airsoft/replica/real rifle, try it with that). Not really an effective way of shooting at someone, is it? Playing since 1st batch of closed beta keys.

Bayeth Mal OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 32	Posted - 2014.02.06 00:21:00 - [21] - Quote I've seen tanked Gal-logis twitching their way to success. And they are able to over come aim assist. I always assumed it was KB/M, but if you guys are sure perhaps it's possibly a modded controller thing? I've seen scrambler pistols firing off like SMG's from time to time so I'm pretty sure they're here.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 8904	Posted - 2014.02.06 14:19:00 - [22] - Quote This explains a looooot. Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
Quil Evrything Triple Terrors 907	Posted - 2014.02.06 17:25:00 - [23] - Quote Bayeth Mal wrote: I've seen tanked Gal-logis twitching their way to success. And they are able to over come aim assist. I always assumed it was KB/M, but if you guys are sure perhaps it's possibly a modded controller thing? . They may think they're "sure", but they're still wrong Just think about the mechanics. A controller, has a stick, which has to physically travel the distance from one side, to the other. You have one object, that controls the velocity, and that one object cannot make instant transitions.. So because of real-world physics, there will always be at least a semi-smooth (aka slow) transition. In contrast, keyboards allow you to use two, COMPLETELY PHYSICALLY INDEPENDANT keys, to control a single virtual-world property of velocity. That allows for instant transitions. If people are still having difficulthy grasping the concept, how about this: lets say you want to move your real life body from side to side, alternating directions as rapidly as possible. Try hopping on one leg from side to side. Now hop from right leg to left leg and back. Is one leg ever going to be as fast as using two legs for this purpose? Only if the person is incompetant at using two legs.
Kristoff Atruin Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1637	Posted - 2014.02.06 18:29:00 - [24] - Quote Go on then. Make us a video showing yourself dodging bullets with the keyboard. I'll be here waiting.
I-Shayz-I I-----I 2208	Posted - 2014.02.06 20:13:00 - [25] - Quote Try circle strafing. It's faster than moving back and forth, and your thumbs don't work as hard. Links: List of Most Important Threads I make logistics videos!
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 9005	Posted - 2014.02.10 07:45:00 - [26] - Quote bump Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
Doshneil Antaro Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 212	Posted - 2014.02.10 08:41:00 - [27] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: bump Go back to page one. Address the issues that I point out that clearly give the DS3 complete superiority over the KB/M. Then maybe a bump is in order. Until then, all your points are moot, and this topic is dead. Sage /thread
CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES Legacy Rising 594	Posted - 2014.02.11 03:13:00 - [28] - Quote LOL like there is any difference! Get out of here!
Kristoff Atruin Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1676	Posted - 2014.02.11 12:27:00 - [29] - Quote FYI I went and tried this. When you tap A / D quickly your dropsuit has momentum and doesn't instantly change directions, and I was able to change directions just as quickly with the DS3. The challenge with the DS3 was that I actually had to slow myself down and get the timing right to move the same way. If I tried going as fast as possible I was returning the stick to the left before my merc started moving to the right. The keyboard was essentially the same, in order for the key presses to have any real impact I had to hold them down for a moment. The stick movement range isn't an issue, you just need to learn how not to overdo it.
RAILUS RIFFLER Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 0	Posted - 2014.02.11 16:16:00 - [30] - Quote SWEET! I just got a free Minecraft card code at http://minecraftcode.me



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