DUST Search - request: Minmatar dropsuit balance

D legendary hero wrote:

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=137506
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1774559#post1774559

Above are various threads that suggest it, but now I am out right requesting a balance for the minmatar dropsuits vs other dropsuits.

Why the need?
Essentially the minmatar is the weakest suit in every class with only marginally higher movement speed (6%) and the lowest EHP (25% less than a caldari/galente suit). This is disproportionate. To make matters worse in order to have any surviability you have to add armor plates with brings your movement speed in line with galente and caldari suits with still lower ehp.
To compound the problem 1 basic kin cat can bridge the speed gap of any suit with the minmatar suit (of the same class) and still have more EHP. Aim assist further exacerbates the problem making a "speed advantage" (of .3m/s Straight

) meaningless.

Many people talk about the glass cannon theory saying that minmatar are supposed to have damage mods tanked and that minmatar have powerful weapons. This theory is shattered by the simple facts that:
1.) any suit can tank damage mods and still have more EHP than a minmatar of the same class
2.) any suit can carry minmatar weapons and use them to the same effectivity (unlike Scr where the amarr bonus makes them the best lazer tech users).

So, in essence minmatar are the weakest in dust.

Balance based on EVE trends and logic

Since in EVE Amarr have the most armor and galente in relation to them have the fastest rep on armor. Caldari should have the highest total shielding but minmatar should have the fastest shield recharge.

Since in dust, Amarr are supposed to have the highest total passive EHP (unmodified), Minmatar on the opposite end of the balance beam should have the highest (unmodded) shield recharge and passive armor reps.

the general flow from an EHP standpoint should be:
Amarr > Caldari> Galente> minmatar

the general flow from a fastest recharge and highest innate rep standpoint should be:
Minmatar > galente > Caldari > Amarr

Some may argue that minmatar are not armo tankers and that armar and galente should be the only ones with passive reps from an EVE standpoint. However this is false, according to lore Minmatar had a very important role in the invention of the rep tool, their meduim assault suits are literally modified logistics/engineer suits. They by all means lorewise should have a passive armor regen.

Also consider galente need a passive armor regen because that is how they operate in EVE. Period.
Amarr in EVE do not rep. armor. The amarr phyolsophy in EVE, is to have so much overwhelming armor that you cannot destroy their ships, pretty much you'd run out of ammo. This should be carried over to dust. unmodded amar suits should have no passive armor rep.Same for caldari their fight at range. passive armor rep is unessesary.

3 things can balance the minmatar suit against the other dropsuits

the following are three things that can potentially balance minmatar suits:
[list]
Having the fastest shield recharge in its class ie 15-25% than caldari (whichever number is closer to a balance) (namely the rechaege of the next lightest class ie. minmatar medium frame having the shield recharge of a galente scout unmodified).
Having a passive armor rep. of 2-3hp/s. (remember they have lower ehp.. in a 1 on 1 gun fight this will not make a difference. but, from engagement to engagement this will help. Giving meaning to the minmatar "hit and run style of warefare)
Giving their suits on all tiers the same number of High slots as Low slots (3 and 3, 4 and 4 etc)*

By implementing these recommendations I feel certain balance can be had among the dropsuits.

*note: minmatar are suposed to be the most versitile race.

minmatar suit should have the folowing stats in this order.
minmatar scout = shield recharge delay 2 sec, shield recharge 45hp/s. inate armor rep 2hps

minmatar medium frame (assault and logi) = shield recharge delay 3 seconds, sheild recharge 40hp/s. innate armor rep. 2hp/s

minmatar heavy frame = shield recharge delay 3 seconds, shield recharge 40 hp/s. innate armor rep 2hp/s


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bogeyman m Learning Coalition College 118	Posted - 2014.02.21 20:36:00 - [1] - Quote D legendary hero wrote: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=137506 https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1774559#post1774559 Above are various threads that suggest it, but now I am out right requesting a balance for the minmatar dropsuits vs other dropsuits. Why the need? Essentially the minmatar is the weakest suit in every class with only marginally higher movement speed (6%) and the lowest EHP (25% less than a caldari/galente suit). This is disproportionate. To make matters worse in order to have any surviability you have to add armor plates with brings your movement speed in line with galente and caldari suits with still lower ehp. To compound the problem 1 basic kin cat can bridge the speed gap of any suit with the minmatar suit (of the same class) and still have more EHP. Aim assist further exacerbates the problem making a "speed advantage" (of .3m/s ) meaningless. Many people talk about the glass cannon theory saying that minmatar are supposed to have damage mods tanked and that minmatar have powerful weapons. This theory is shattered by the simple facts that: 1.) any suit can tank damage mods and still have more EHP than a minmatar of the same class 2.) any suit can carry minmatar weapons and use them to the same effectivity (unlike Scr where the amarr bonus makes them the best lazer tech users). So, in essence minmatar are the weakest in dust. Balance based on EVE trends and logic Since in EVE Amarr have the most armor and galente in relation to them have the fastest rep on armor. Caldari should have the highest total shielding but minmatar should have the fastest shield recharge. Since in dust, Amarr are supposed to have the highest total passive EHP (unmodified), Minmatar on the opposite end of the balance beam should have the highest (unmodded) shield recharge and passive armor reps. the general flow from an EHP standpoint should be: Amarr > Caldari> Galente> minmatar the general flow from a fastest recharge and highest innate rep standpoint should be: Minmatar > galente > Caldari > Amarr Some may argue that minmatar are not armo tankers and that armar and galente should be the only ones with passive reps from an EVE standpoint. However this is false, according to lore Minmatar had a very important role in the invention of the rep tool, their meduim assault suits are literally modified logistics/engineer suits. They by all means lorewise should have a passive armor regen. Also consider galente need a passive armor regen because that is how they operate in EVE. Period. Amarr in EVE do not rep. armor. The amarr phyolsophy in EVE, is to have so much overwhelming armor that you cannot destroy their ships, pretty much you'd run out of ammo. This should be carried over to dust. unmodded amar suits should have no passive armor rep.Same for caldari their fight at range. passive armor rep is unessesary. 3 things can balance the minmatar suit against the other dropsuits the following are three things that can potentially balance minmatar suits: [list] Having the fastest shield recharge in its class ie 15-25% than caldari (whichever number is closer to a balance) (namely the rechaege of the next lightest class ie. minmatar medium frame having the shield recharge of a galente scout unmodified). Having a passive armor rep. of 2-3hp/s. (remember they have lower ehp.. in a 1 on 1 gun fight this will not make a difference. but, from engagement to engagement this will help. Giving meaning to the minmatar "hit and run style of warefare) Giving their suits on all tiers the same number of High slots as Low slots (3 and 3, 4 and 4 etc)* By implementing these recommendations I feel certain balance can be had among the dropsuits. *note: minmatar are suposed to be the most versitile race. minmatar suit should have the folowing stats in this order. minmatar scout = shield recharge delay 2 sec, shield recharge 45hp/s. inate armor rep 2hps minmatar medium frame (assault and logi) = shield recharge delay 3 seconds, sheild recharge 40hp/s. innate armor rep. 2hp/s minmatar heavy frame = shield recharge delay 3 seconds, shield recharge 40 hp/s. innate armor rep 2hp/s Yes please. +1,000,000
bogeyman m Learning Coalition College 119	Posted - 2014.02.22 04:05:00 - [2] - Quote D legendary hero wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Sole Fenychs wrote: Wait, you are saying that Minmatar aren't glass cannons as they are supposed to be, and thus you want to give them more tanking? Minmatar should have high shield regeneration, but also a high delay. Why? Because it encourages hit and run. Low delay is better for prolonged combat, as Caldari are supposed to do. Minmatar shield regen delay and regen speed, as well as armor regen, should be synched in order to allow them to have both values topped up at around the same time after an engagement. This means that avoiding engagements after a fight is the way to go, because otherwise the shield regen timer is reset and you are at only half HP. Their speed is there to allow them to actually make use of that healing. Run away and live to see another kill. Meanwhile, do something with lower risk, like running cloaked to the next objective. Armor plates slow them down, meaning that this concept is interfered with. Shield extenders/regulators, meanwhile, would be the to go thing for them. This leaves open low slots for profile dampeners, which I imagine to be very useful for a hit and run kind of playstyle and movement modules, but makes tanking a tradeoff with damage modules. I don't know much about the shield modules, but are the extender/regulators based on percentages? The shield delay modification might actually be something to consider with this version of Minmatar, in contrast to what I heard about the laughably low attribute change for Caldari. Anyway, take my suggestions together and Minmatar would be the perfect lone wolfs. Run around the battlefield, assault undefended objectives or defend hacked objectives. The long time between attacks would be enough to heal up, but would cause death in larger battles. Mediums would be heavy on flanking and dynamically reinforcing the team even across larger areas. I don't have enough imagination for heavies. Now, how fluffy is that kind of playstyle? Does "lone wolf" fit the Minmatar mentality? they currently need more speed on the scout suit, as it is worse in every way than the gallant scout Its not just the scout. The minmatar suit is worse in everyway to every suit of the same tier. and the stats for 1.8 dnt look too promising either. all I am asking for is for shield recharge, shorter recharge delay and an innate regen of some quantity above 1 but below 4hp/s. thats not a lot to ask. You're asking for speed (only) related performance improvements across the board - these all seem entirely reasonable to me. Additionally, the new Gallente, Amarr & Minmatar scout speeds might need to be rebalanced to accommodate potential fitting scenarios, as noted above. Lastly, with the Min Logi having the Rep Tool bonus, it is the only Logi that is required to be on the front line to benefit from the new equipment changes. As such, it's survivability needs to be improved. Inherent armour repair AND faster shield regenerate AND shortly shield delay would all be warranted - a small buff in both shield and armour HP could also be argued.