DUST Search - [Feedback] The ion pistol is worst in its class

All Channels

Feedback/Requests

[Feedback] The ion pistol is worst in its class

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 :: [one page]

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 8559	Posted - 2014.01.27 17:35:00 - [1] - Quote Comparing the stats of the ion pistol to existing sidearms, this is a weapon of very dubious value. IGÇÖm not comparing it to nova knives, because theyGÇÖre really quite different, but it is horrendously underpowered compared to the other ranged sidearms. To prove this, I have some statistics. Please do feel free to point out if I have missed anything. First, letGÇÖs compare its DPS to the other sidearms. ItGÇÖs worth noting as well that the ion pistol and scrambler pistol are both semi-automatic, meaning that they will very rarely attain their full DPS value, especially in the case of the ion pistol where the restrictively low RoF means that taps will not always translate to shots. The RoF of the ion pistol is 375 RPM. At 50 damage a shot, with a maxed fire rate this translates to 312.5 DPS. It does, however, have a charge shot mechanic which allows you to charge up a shot for 1.45 seconds for 350 damage. This gives a DPS of 241. The RoF of the magsec SMG is 666 RPM. At 35 damage a shot, this translates to 388 DPS. However, there is a short 0.3 second fire delay which reduces the initial DPS to 273. The RoF of scrambler pistol is 400 RPM. At 80 damage a shot, this translates to 533 DPS. Notably, it also has a 450% damage bonus on headshots. The RoF of the submachine gun is 1000 RPM. At 23 damage a shot this translates to 383 DPS. The RoF of the bolt pistol is 150 RPM. At 135 damage a shot, this translates to 337.5 DPS. However, there is a short 0.25 second fire delay which reduces the initial DPS to 253. From this damage assessment we can see that the ion pistol is the weakest sidearm in terms of damage output when not considering the charge time on the bolt pistol and magsec SMGs. With those, it slightly outperforms them. A note on charge delay GÇô it is easily mitigated by pre-charging as the opponent comes around a corner, or constantly tapping the trigger as you move around ensuring you are charged up and ready to go at any time. This does not entirely discount the charge time GÇô it is a hindrance, but it is not a significant one. The charge shot mechanic of the ion pistol is not notable for any practical application. Upon firing a charge shot, the weapon will immediately overheat GÇô rendering follow-up shots useless. The alpha damage is not high enough to kill many opponents, so using the charge shot means you will be helpless. Additionally, using the charge shot as a follow-up to normal shots does not work because the charge time is too long and you would be better served by using normal shots. Now. Consider the sustained damage capability of each of these sidearms. The ion pistol has 12 shots in a clip before needing to reload. This gives 600 damage per clip. There is also possibly an overheat mechanic, though this is only known for the charge shot. The magsec SMG has 54 shots in a clip before needing to reload. This gives 1890 damage per clip. The SMG has 80 rounds per clip for 1760 damage per clip. The scrambler pistol has 11 rounds per clip for approximately 880 damage per clip. The bolt pistol has 6 rounds per clip for 810 damage per clip. The ion pistol is thoroughly outperformed by the other weapons in sustained damage output. The other weapons in its class give up to triple the damage per clip. This is more of a handicap than it appears as well GÇô many opponents have more than 600 EHP, meaning a reload is absolutely necessary for the ion pistol where it wouldnGÇÖt be for the other sidearms. The pistols generally have lower damage per clip than the SMGs, but the ion pistol still has the lowest in class there as well. Level 5 Proficiency 3 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 8559	Posted - 2014.01.27 17:35:00 - [2] - Quote Finally, we have the range. Ion pistol GÇô 20m optimal. SMG GÇô 25-30m optimal. Scrambler pistol GÇô 30-35m optimal. Magsec SMG GÇô 40m optimal. Bolt pistol GÇô 45m optimal. This is huge. The ion pistol is not just the shortest ranged sidearm, it is by far the shortest ranged sidearm. Even its closest competitor can get up to 50% more range than it GÇô and the rail sidearms have over double the range. The ion pistol is completely unable to retaliate when sufficiently outranged and it gains nothing for it. To summarise, the ion pistol is outperformed in almost every category. It cannot compete in DPS. It cannot compete in sustained damage. Although alpha looks promising due to the charge mechanic, it loses out to the bolt pistol because it canGÇÖt follow through with its shots. It certainly canGÇÖt compete in range. It doesnGÇÖt have the RoF to be good at CQC. This is not the first time a close ranged weapon has been outperformed GÇôat close range- by longer ranged weapons, even in the DPS department. If a weapon is only able to be used at drastically shorter ranges than other weapons of its class, it needs significantly higher DPS than those in order to be useful. There needs to be an end to long ranged weapons out-DPSing close range weapons, especially when they have a higher RoF as well (which helps in CQC). The description of the ion pistol states that it is GÇ£a ruthlessly efficient close-quarters weaponGÇ¥. This is absolutely not the case should the ion pistol be released with these stats. Level 5 Proficiency 3 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 6024	Posted - 2014.01.27 17:43:00 - [3] - Quote Same thing as with the AR. Lowest range, second lowest DPS (LOLWUT), and that's only slightly, the one it beats, it beats by a margin of 2 DPS. CCP hates Gallente. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1735	Posted - 2014.01.27 17:55:00 - [4] - Quote I bet you anything in 1.8 not only will this weapon but also the AR will remain gimped against long range weapons. Although if CCP does fix them I am not very optimistic as I'm sure the DPS difference will be like 10% vs a 40-50% range difference. Armor and Shields are not the same!
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 8645	Posted - 2014.01.27 17:57:00 - [5] - Quote Great analysis. Having a weapon with low DPS AND low range is a terrible idea, as terrible as high DPS and high range together. The charge shot automatically causing overheat is the biggest issue to me; it isn't enough to kill, and takes to long to charge for it to be a viable finisher as you explained. Instead of each shot causing overheat, the charge shot should instead use up 5 rounds from the magazine, this way charge shots have a cost without being too punishing. Another option is to make it have a normal heat system like the HMG or scrambler rifle, and just make a charge shot fill the overheat gauge 80%, so the next 2 shot after a charge shot will cause overheat. The Base damage should be increased as well to make up for the poor DPS. Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1713	Posted - 2014.01.27 19:43:00 - [6] - Quote Yeah. It should do about as much (even more, maybe)damage as the ScP. The main differences between the two should be that one has a headshot bonus and a longer range, but the other can charge a shot and has a lower range with a bit more DPS. Yours Truly, Reginald Fizzer94 Delafontaine III, Esquire
MEDICO RITARDATO Pr0toTyPeS 1	Posted - 2014.01.27 19:48:00 - [7] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: CCP hates Gallente. Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah suicide
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 8573	Posted - 2014.01.27 19:48:00 - [8] - Quote Fizzer94 wrote: Yeah. It should do about as much (even more, maybe)damage as the ScP. The main differences between the two should be that one has a headshot bonus and a longer range, but the other can charge a shot and has a lower range with a bit more DPS. Honestly, why just as much damage as the SCP? It has a lower range and an overheat mechanic. Isn't that justification for more DPS? Level 5 Proficiency 3 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution MAG Raven
Artificer Ghost Learning Coalition College 1130	Posted - 2014.01.27 19:59:00 - [9] - Quote Is that what the charge shot is? It says in the description it has the ability to overload, like a module in EVE, I assume. No idea what that keybind would be though. :/ ~Art, CEO and DoE at Learning Coalition College, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition Maken Tosch = 1000th Like!
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 8573	Posted - 2014.01.27 20:00:00 - [10] - Quote Artificer Ghost wrote: Is that what the charge shot is? It says in the description it has the ability to overload, like a module in EVE, I assume. No idea what that keybind would be though. :/ Hold down R1. Charge up shot. Release shot. Overheat. Level 5 Proficiency 3 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution MAG Raven

Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 6029	Posted - 2014.01.27 20:07:00 - [11] - Quote MEDICO RITARDATO wrote: Cat Merc wrote: CCP hates Gallente. Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah suicide Do you not believe me human? Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Asha Starwind VEXALATION CORPORATION Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage 241	Posted - 2014.01.27 20:15:00 - [12] - Quote I said this in the other thread and I'll say it again here. You bunch are jumping the gun here, the Ion pistol may turn out to be the shotgun sidearm that has been requested by every shotgun user ever.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 8575	Posted - 2014.01.27 20:20:00 - [13] - Quote Asha Starwind wrote: I said this in the other thread and I'll say it again here. You bunch are jumping the gun here, the Ion pistol may turn out to be the shotgun sidearm that has been requested by every shotgun user ever. Perhaps you should read the thread. How can it possibly be the 'shotgun sidearm' when it's so terrible compared to all the other sidearms? There are other sidearms doing more DPS with twice the range. Please do explain how this is 'jumping the gun', though. CCP have released stats. The stats are terrible. Are we meant to wait until we can see the pretty models before we point out that the gun is terrible? Level 5 Proficiency 3 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution MAG Raven
Asha Starwind VEXALATION CORPORATION Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage 241	Posted - 2014.01.27 20:38:00 - [14] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Asha Starwind wrote: I said this in the other thread and I'll say it again here. You bunch are jumping the gun here, the Ion pistol may turn out to be the shotgun sidearm that has been requested by every shotgun user ever. Perhaps you should read the thread. How can it possibly be the 'shotgun sidearm' when it's so terrible compared to all the other sidearms? There are other sidearms doing more DPS with twice the range. Please do explain how this is 'jumping the gun', though. CCP have released stats. The stats are terrible. Are we meant to wait until we can see the pretty models before we point out that the gun is terrible? What you are doing right now is pretty much looking at the current shotgun or NKs and saying they're complete garbage based on their expressed stats. Do they do only 42, and 200 damage? No, they much, much more. So yeah, until we actually try out the weapon there isn't anyway to say how it will actually perform.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 8586	Posted - 2014.01.27 20:40:00 - [15] - Quote Asha Starwind wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Asha Starwind wrote: I said this in the other thread and I'll say it again here. You bunch are jumping the gun here, the Ion pistol may turn out to be the shotgun sidearm that has been requested by every shotgun user ever. Perhaps you should read the thread. How can it possibly be the 'shotgun sidearm' when it's so terrible compared to all the other sidearms? There are other sidearms doing more DPS with twice the range. Please do explain how this is 'jumping the gun', though. CCP have released stats. The stats are terrible. Are we meant to wait until we can see the pretty models before we point out that the gun is terrible? What you are doing right now is pretty much looking at the current shotgun or NKs and saying they're complete garbage based on their expressed stats. What I am doing is explaining, quite clearly, that the weapon is outperformed in almost every way stats wise. Would you like to give me an example of a weapon that has worse stats than everything else yet actually is a good weapon? Level 5 Proficiency 3 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution MAG Raven
Asha Starwind VEXALATION CORPORATION Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage 241	Posted - 2014.01.27 20:46:00 - [16] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Asha Starwind wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Asha Starwind wrote: I said this in the other thread and I'll say it again here. You bunch are jumping the gun here, the Ion pistol may turn out to be the shotgun sidearm that has been requested by every shotgun user ever. Perhaps you should read the thread. How can it possibly be the 'shotgun sidearm' when it's so terrible compared to all the other sidearms? There are other sidearms doing more DPS with twice the range. Please do explain how this is 'jumping the gun', though. CCP have released stats. The stats are terrible. Are we meant to wait until we can see the pretty models before we point out that the gun is terrible? What you are doing right now is pretty much looking at the current shotgun or NKs and saying they're complete garbage based on their expressed stats. What I am doing is explaining, quite clearly, that the weapon is outperformed in almost every way stats wise. Would you like to give me an example of a weapon that has worse stats than everything else yet actually is a good weapon? You don't know how damage it does. based solely on the released stats. Pellets/bullets fired per shot is not listed, and you're making the assumption that it is 1, and that may be wrong.
Talos Alomar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2003	Posted - 2014.01.27 21:03:00 - [17] - Quote Asha Starwind wrote: You don't know how damage it does,[/u][/b] based solely on the released stats. Pellets/bullets fired per shot is not listed, and you're making the assumption that it is 1, and that may be wrong. If it were a shotgun like weapon that would be an odd thing to leave out of the description. Try to kill it all you want CCP, I still <3 my laser.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 8593	Posted - 2014.01.27 21:04:00 - [18] - Quote Asha Starwind wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Asha Starwind wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Asha Starwind wrote: I said this in the other thread and I'll say it again here. You bunch are jumping the gun here, the Ion pistol may turn out to be the shotgun sidearm that has been requested by every shotgun user ever. Perhaps you should read the thread. How can it possibly be the 'shotgun sidearm' when it's so terrible compared to all the other sidearms? There are other sidearms doing more DPS with twice the range. Please do explain how this is 'jumping the gun', though. CCP have released stats. The stats are terrible. Are we meant to wait until we can see the pretty models before we point out that the gun is terrible? What you are doing right now is pretty much looking at the current shotgun or NKs and saying they're complete garbage based on their expressed stats. What I am doing is explaining, quite clearly, that the weapon is outperformed in almost every way stats wise. Would you like to give me an example of a weapon that has worse stats than everything else yet actually is a good weapon? You don't know how damage it does. based solely on the released stats. Pellets/bullets fired per shot is not listed, and you're making the assumption that it is 1, and that may be wrong. The description of the ion pistol refers to a single 'slug' or 'discharge'. Also, if it fired multiple pellets it would quickly go from 'underpowered' to 'horrendously overpowered'. ZATARA CARRIES US ALL Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution MAG Raven
Aeon Amadi Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 4760	Posted - 2014.01.27 21:22:00 - [19] - Quote CCP has yet to respond about the seize time. Not necessarily a bad thing, adds an element of surprise for when it's released... I guess. Anyway, charge up shot on a Gallente weapon seems bizarre to me - ill placed if anything for a variety of reasons (outside of being an Amarr thing). I'm not too beat up about the numbers so much as the impracticality of the weapon's intended use. Gallente are all about high damage, close quarters combat. Unfortunately there's been a train of thought that Gallente are more about bulky armor plating which slows them down - which we seem to have gotten past considering the stats in 1.8 - but more importantly their weapons seem to be entirely skill-shot oriented (with the exception of the Assault Rifle). Considering the Plasma Cannon, arguably the lowest skill-to-power ratio, and the shotgun which is a punchline of it's own due to it's accuracy (small reticle) and incredibly short range (four meters); it seems that Gallente technology is more about circumstantial and situational use than any real practicality, forcing the user to afford a level of personal skill to get any particular use out of the weapon, a niche more than anything. So then we have the Ion Pistol which seems cool at first but the more I think about it the less interested I am in it. Here's a few personal reasons: If I am using a sidearm it's because I have no ammo in my primary weapon. It's certainly not by choice. Mobility is everything to Gallente, having to sacrifice sprinting to charge the weapon is impractical. Charging in a firefight is entirely impractical for this reason. Missing is by far the most dangerous thing that can happen with a charged shot as it (apparently) seizes up, leaving the user vulnerable for several seconds as well as (presumably) taking over heat damage. The damage and range are very low without charging, making the weapon entirely focused around the charge mechanic. Essentially what we have here is a cross-breed between a bean bag launcher and a shotgun, depending on it's use - only the shotgun explodes in your hand and you're forced to realign your fingers after you fire it. Useful Links //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588 //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
Aeon Amadi Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 4760	Posted - 2014.01.27 21:24:00 - [20] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Asha Starwind wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: [quote=Asha Starwind][quote=Arkena Wyrnspire] What I am doing is explaining, quite clearly, that the weapon is outperformed in almost every way stats wise. Would you like to give me an example of a weapon that has worse stats than everything else yet actually is a good weapon? You don't know how damage it does. based solely on the released stats. Pellets/bullets fired per shot is not listed, and you're making the assumption that it is 1, and that may be wrong. The description of the ion pistol refers to a single 'slug' or 'discharge'. Also, if it fired multiple pellets it would quickly go from 'underpowered' to 'horrendously overpowered'. I concur, if only because it would have a longer optimal range and higher damage output than the shotgun... Actually, it probably would make a lot of CQC Scouts happy considering how niche the shotgun is... Useful Links //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588 //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182

Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 539	Posted - 2014.01.27 21:43:00 - [21] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Comparing the stats of the ion pistol to existing sidearms, this is a weapon of very dubious value. IGÇÖm not comparing it to nova knives, because theyGÇÖre really quite different, but it is horrendously underpowered compared to the other ranged sidearms. To prove this, I have some statistics. Please do feel free to point out if I have missed anything. First, letGÇÖs compare its DPS to the other sidearms. ItGÇÖs worth noting as well that the ion pistol and scrambler pistol are both semi-automatic, meaning that they will very rarely attain their full DPS value, especially in the case of the ion pistol where the restrictively low RoF means that taps will not always translate to shots. The RoF of the ion pistol is 375 RPM. At 50 damage a shot, with a maxed fire rate this translates to 312.5 DPS. It does, however, have a charge shot mechanic which allows you to charge up a shot for 1.45 seconds for 350 damage. This gives a DPS of 241. The RoF of the magsec SMG is 666 RPM. At 35 damage a shot, this translates to 388 DPS. However, there is a short 0.3 second fire delay which reduces the initial DPS to 273. The RoF of scrambler pistol is 400 RPM. At 80 damage a shot, this translates to 533 DPS. Notably, it also has a 450% damage bonus on headshots. The RoF of the submachine gun is 1000 RPM. At 23 damage a shot this translates to 383 DPS. The RoF of the bolt pistol is 150 RPM. At 135 damage a shot, this translates to 337.5 DPS. However, there is a short 0.25 second fire delay which reduces the initial DPS to 253. From this damage assessment we can see that the ion pistol is the weakest sidearm in terms of damage output when not considering the charge time on the bolt pistol and magsec SMGs. With those, it slightly outperforms them. A note on charge delay GÇô it is easily mitigated by pre-charging as the opponent comes around a corner, or constantly tapping the trigger as you move around ensuring you are charged up and ready to go at any time. This does not entirely discount the charge time GÇô it is a hindrance, but it is not a significant one. The charge shot mechanic of the ion pistol is not notable for any practical application. Upon firing a charge shot, the weapon will immediately overheat GÇô rendering follow-up shots useless. The alpha damage is not high enough to kill many opponents, so using the charge shot means you will be helpless. Additionally, using the charge shot as a follow-up to normal shots does not work because the charge time is too long and you would be better served by using normal shots. Now. Consider the sustained damage capability of each of these sidearms. The ion pistol has 12 shots in a clip before needing to reload. This gives 600 damage per clip. There is also possibly an overheat mechanic, though this is only known for the charge shot. The magsec SMG has 54 shots in a clip before needing to reload. This gives 1890 damage per clip. The SMG has 80 rounds per clip for 1760 damage per clip. The scrambler pistol has 11 rounds per clip for approximately 880 damage per clip. The bolt pistol has 6 rounds per clip for 810 damage per clip. The ion pistol is thoroughly outperformed by the other weapons in sustained damage output. The other weapons in its class give up to triple the damage per clip. This is more of a handicap than it appears as well GÇô many opponents have more than 600 EHP, meaning a reload is absolutely necessary for the ion pistol where it wouldnGÇÖt be for the other sidearms. The pistols generally have lower damage per clip than the SMGs, but the ion pistol still has the lowest in class there as well. This is kinda symptomatic for gallente weapons these days...
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 6031	Posted - 2014.01.27 22:07:00 - [22] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: I concur, if only because it would have a longer optimal range and higher damage output than the shotgun... Actually, it probably would make a lot of CQC Scouts happy considering how niche the shotgun is... Uhh, and why would they use it if stuff like the scrambler rifle outperforms it + more range? Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Asha Starwind VEXALATION CORPORATION Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage 241	Posted - 2014.01.27 22:10:00 - [23] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: The description of the ion pistol refers to a single 'slug' or 'discharge'. Also, if it fired multiple pellets it would quickly go from 'underpowered' to 'horrendously overpowered'. The words 'Discharge' and 'slug' aren't quantitative in the context they are used, you are choosing to interpret it that way. and yes, weapon descriptions are infallible /Sarcasm SEE: MagSec. In fact here's the desc: Quote: A ruthlessly efficient close-quarters weapon, the ion pistol fires charged plasma munitions that rupture shields and scorch armor. Each discharge* is enveloped in an electrostatic sheath that reduces the field distortion and increases stability. The improved dispersion and stopping power is not without it's drawbacks though, as the higher density of each slug generates excessive heat, enough to seize the weapon if the rate of fire is carefully controlled. By overriding internal temperature controls, the weapon can be overcharged to produce a focused bulk discharge of sufficient lethality to neutralized most soft targets. Caution is advise however, as each overcharge shot will shut down internal systems until the excess heat can be flushed from the weapon's core. 'Discharge' is synonymous with 'each firing of the weapon' or 'every bullet.' not quantitative. Describing an individual slug, not how many leave the weapon when it's fired. *Oh look, the word bulk is used so hey it must mean it fires morethan one round at once /sarcasm ".. if it fired multiple pellets it would quickly go from 'underpowered' to 'horrendously overpowered' .." ...and that's point I'm making, until we know the exact number of pellets and spread (if indeed greater one, which there being a high possibility [shotgun is gallente spec, 30m range]) it can be anything in between and that is 'jumping the gun'. It can fire twopellets and not be op, 3 is getting there, 4 would definitely be so.
Oxskull Duncarino Tickle My Null-Sac 373	Posted - 2014.01.27 22:15:00 - [24] - Quote Asha Starwind wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Asha Starwind wrote: I said this in the other thread and I'll say it again here. You bunch are jumping the gun here, the Ion pistol may turn out to be the shotgun sidearm that has been requested by every shotgun user ever. Perhaps you should read the thread. How can it possibly be the 'shotgun sidearm' when it's so terrible compared to all the other sidearms? There are other sidearms doing more DPS with twice the range. Please do explain how this is 'jumping the gun', though. CCP have released stats. The stats are terrible. Are we meant to wait until we can see the pretty models before we point out that the gun is terrible? What you are doing right now is pretty much looking at the current shotgun or NKs and saying they're complete garbage based on their expressed stats. Do they do only 42, and 200 damage? No, they much, much more. So yeah, until we actually try out the weapon there isn't anyway to say how it will actually perform. I'm hoping you're right Asha, but I'm expecting you're right Arkena. What Asha might be right about is a the shotgun type sidearm a few of us have been hoping for since fist setting eyes on the flaylock artwork nearly fifteen months ago. The damage CCP has told us might be per shot, or, it might be per pellet like the shotgun. Modern day smoothbore handguns that use small calibur shotshells have only 3-4 large pellets per cartridge. Tight spread giving the longer range than a normal shotgun but the spread won't give the accuracy of other sidearms. The charged shot would combine all the plasma balls into one powerful accurate shot, albeit a bit short ranged and with overheating involved. Imagine the Ion pistol firing 3 plasma balls for 150 damage per shot Much as I'd love the Ion pistol to function like I described, I really do think it's going to be as Arkena thinks. There are great ideas for extremely different weapons types in Dust but unfortunately I think the easy, more well trodden path is the one CCP gravitates towards. Edit - While having the Ion pistol fire mulipile plasma pellets per shot might sound over powered, if it has a very fast overheat mechanism for regular fire it could come into balance.
Aeon Amadi Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 4763	Posted - 2014.01.27 23:18:00 - [25] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: I concur, if only because it would have a longer optimal range and higher damage output than the shotgun... Actually, it probably would make a lot of CQC Scouts happy considering how niche the shotgun is... Uhh, and why would they use it if stuff like the scrambler rifle outperforms it + more range? Just spitballing, if it had 5 pellets (as to not completely outperform the Shotgun on damage) you'd be dishing out 250 damage everytime you pulled the trigger with a range of 20 meters. Considering it has a 12 round magazine. Now compare that to the shotgun which has 44 damage x 12 (last I checked) pellets for 528 damage with a range of 4m with an 8 round magazine. Just personal preference but I'd much rather deal half damage at more than five times the range and I'm certain a lot of other players would agree with me. Trust me when I say that even though the scrambler rifle has longer range, you can't beat that sheer killing power and it would quickly become the flavor of the month. Useful Links //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588 //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
Ulysses Knapse Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm 1163	Posted - 2014.01.28 00:15:00 - [26] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: The RoF of scrambler pistol is 400 RPM. At 80 damage a shot, this translates to 533 DPS. Notably, it also has a 450% damage bonus on headshots. Did it not have a base headshot damage of 400%, as well as being more effective against shields? What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage? The pile of garbage is more lethal.
Nocturnal Soul Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 1778	Posted - 2014.01.28 04:12:00 - [27] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: I concur, if only because it would have a longer optimal range and higher damage output than the shotgun... Actually, it probably would make a lot of CQC Scouts happy considering how niche the shotgun is... Uhh, and why would they use it if stuff like the scrambler rifle outperforms it + more range? Just spitballing, if it had 5 pellets (as to not completely outperform the Shotgun on damage) you'd be dishing out 250 damage everytime you pulled the trigger with a range of 20 meters. Considering it has a 12 round magazine. Now compare that to the shotgun which has 44 damage x 12 (last I checked) pellets for 528 damage with a range of 4m with an 8 round magazine. Just personal preference but I'd much rather deal half damage at more than five times the range and I'm certain a lot of other players would agree with me. Trust me when I say that even though the scrambler rifle has longer range, you can't beat that sheer killing power and it would quickly become the flavor of the month. No more flavor of the month. Nerf its ROF or range New born sAMARRi
Joel II X Dah Gods O Bacon 701	Posted - 2014.01.28 04:55:00 - [28] - Quote Asha Starwind wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Asha Starwind wrote: I said this in the other thread and I'll say it again here. You bunch are jumping the gun here, the Ion pistol may turn out to be the shotgun sidearm that has been requested by every shotgun user ever. Perhaps you should read the thread. How can it possibly be the 'shotgun sidearm' when it's so terrible compared to all the other sidearms? There are other sidearms doing more DPS with twice the range. Please do explain how this is 'jumping the gun', though. CCP have released stats. The stats are terrible. Are we meant to wait until we can see the pretty models before we point out that the gun is terrible? What you are doing right now is pretty much looking at the current shotgun or NKs and saying they're complete garbage based on their expressed stats. Do they do only 42, and 200 damage? No, they much, much more. So yeah, until we actually try out the weapon there isn't anyway to say how it will actually perform. I agree. Before judging anything, I think we should actually skill into it, and use it first. Who knows? It might be the best Pistol ever (going to miss that headshot multiplier, though). That being said, I want a Gallente smg!
Joel II X Dah Gods O Bacon 701	Posted - 2014.01.28 04:57:00 - [29] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: The RoF of scrambler pistol is 400 RPM. At 80 damage a shot, this translates to 533 DPS. Notably, it also has a 450% damage bonus on headshots. Did it not have a base headshot damage of 400%, as well as being more effective against shields? 450% and yes. It's better against shields, though not by so much that you will notice.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 8622	Posted - 2014.01.28 07:02:00 - [30] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: I concur, if only because it would have a longer optimal range and higher damage output than the shotgun... Actually, it probably would make a lot of CQC Scouts happy considering how niche the shotgun is... Uhh, and why would they use it if stuff like the scrambler rifle outperforms it + more range? Just spitballing, if it had 5 pellets (as to not completely outperform the Shotgun on damage) you'd be dishing out 250 damage everytime you pulled the trigger with a range of 20 meters. Considering it has a 12 round magazine. Now compare that to the shotgun which has 44 damage x 12 (last I checked) pellets for 528 damage with a range of 4m with an 8 round magazine. Just personal preference but I'd much rather deal half damage at more than five times the range and I'm certain a lot of other players would agree with me. Trust me when I say that even though the scrambler rifle has longer range, you can't beat that sheer killing power and it would quickly become the flavor of the month. No more flavor of the month. Nerf its ROF or range Or actually make it decent first. ZATARA CARRIES US ALL Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution MAG Raven

Bojo The Mighty L.O.T.I.S. 2924	Posted - 2014.01.28 07:10:00 - [31] - Quote I'm noticing a trend and that is that gallente weapons are getting worse and worse as Caldari / Amarr weapons are getting seemingly better. Admittedly the Combat rifle is very good, but Shotgun is broke, AR is gimped by comparison, Plasma cannon is joke, while Rail Rifle dominates, Bolt Pistol will be able to out range an AR, Sniper Rifles have always been viable, and Swarms are like an AV staple. I think there's a bias to try and get Gallente FW abandoned for any material gain and persuade people to play Caldari FW. That's my conspiracy theory. Rifle Changes: DPS, range, and damage
Summ Dude OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 149	Posted - 2014.01.28 08:46:00 - [32] - Quote What are the chances that maybe this overheat is different from other weapons'? Like, it just makes the pistol itself unusable for some time, but you can still sprint and change weapons and stuff. Then it might actually be a great weapon for starting fights. Just a random thought I had. Not just a laymen, but the laymen.
Flint Beastgood III GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 482	Posted - 2014.01.28 15:49:00 - [33] - Quote Summ Dude wrote: What are the chances that maybe this overheat is different from other weapons'? Like, it just makes the pistol itself unusable for some time, but you can still sprint and change weapons and stuff. Then it might actually be a great weapon for starting fights. Just a random thought I had. With these stats, I sure hope so. I want to go full Gallente after 1.8, but CCP are making it real hard for me to justify doing so. Gÿó +¦ +¦ Gÿó Trained Skills
Kilo Shells G.L.O.R.Y Public Disorder. 28	Posted - 2014.01.28 16:40:00 - [34] - Quote I noticed you used the max possible ammo on the scrambler pistol? The ion pistol might have a similar or even better operations skill. Also, the scrambler and the flaylock rely heavily on user skill ( if you missed with the flaylock your probably dead) you sorta have to wait and see. Caldari Assault My 2 cents on Grenades
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 8680	Posted - 2014.01.28 18:23:00 - [35] - Quote @Asha Starwind, CCP posted the stats in feedback/requests because they want feedback, and this is what the thread is for. Furthermore we have no reason to assume the weapon fires pellets, sounds like you're just looking for whatever possible unknown factor to derail things. Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 8639	Posted - 2014.01.28 18:27:00 - [36] - Quote Kilo Shells wrote: I noticed you used the max possible ammo on the scrambler pistol? The ion pistol might have a similar or even better operations skill. Also, the scrambler and the flaylock rely heavily on user skill ( if you missed with the flaylock your probably dead) you sorta have to wait and see. Ah, I've been so used to scrambler operation 5 I've forgotten about that. I haven't even included the flaylock in my comparisons, as it happens. The point about the scrambler relying on user skill doesn't change anything. It matters even more if you miss shots with the ion pistol - it has a lower RoF and an overheat function, meaning that if you miss shots you're even more screwed. The scrambler pistol is actually a good comparison to the ion pistol. Let's have a look. Damage - SCP 80, IP 50 - SCP wins significantly RoF - SCP 500, IP 375 - SCP wins significantly Range - SCP 30-35, IP 20 - SCP wins significantly Clip size - SCP 6-11, IP 12 - IP wins marginally Do you see? ZATARA CARRIES US ALL Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution MAG Raven
CLONE117 planetary retaliation organisation ACME Holding Conglomerate 605	Posted - 2014.01.28 19:39:00 - [37] - Quote reminds me of the plasma pistol from halo.. but its gonna need to flux enemy shielding first... and then theyd need to fix the melee system. ion pistol sounds like its going to suck bad. id like to see overheat toned down. (if its high). raise clipsize and ammo capacity. maybe around 20-25 rounds in the base clip. and 350 damage pershot on the fully charged version is pretty high. it might be able to ohk some mlt suits and scout suits. cooldown shouldnt be to long though as that would gimp its powershot. i want to know its maximum effective range though as 20-25 meters just sounds far to low. id have to try it out when it comes though. theres a chance this pistol could be very powerful in its range. maybe rof raised to match that of the scp.
Hoover Damn H.A.R.V.E.S.T. Legacy Rising 36	Posted - 2014.01.28 20:08:00 - [38] - Quote Flint Beastgood III wrote: I want to go full Gallente after 1.8, but CCP are making it real hard for me to justify doing so. Being able to pack 800+ ehp without even touching a heavy suit isn't enough for you?
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 8643	Posted - 2014.01.28 20:14:00 - [39] - Quote Hoover Damn wrote: Flint Beastgood III wrote: I want to go full Gallente after 1.8, but CCP are making it real hard for me to justify doing so. Being able to pack 800+ ehp without even touching a heavy suit isn't enough for you? You realise that's almost certainly going to be nerfed, right? He's talking about after 1.8, when Gallente logis will have been brought back in line and when (should there be no change to the released stats) the Gallente weaponry will be inferior to everyone else's. ZATARA CARRIES US ALL Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution MAG Raven
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1754	Posted - 2014.01.28 22:04:00 - [40] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Hoover Damn wrote: Flint Beastgood III wrote: I want to go full Gallente after 1.8, but CCP are making it real hard for me to justify doing so. Being able to pack 800+ ehp without even touching a heavy suit isn't enough for you? You realise that's almost certainly going to be nerfed, right? He's talking about after 1.8, when Gallente logis will have been brought back in line and when (should there be no change to the released stats) the Gallente weaponry will be inferior to everyone else's. I have a feeling that what the Gallente went through from 1.0 to 1.5 being Gallente will be nothing to the pain we will suffer in 1.8+ Armor and Shields are not the same!

AP Grasshopper The Unit 514 163	Posted - 2014.01.28 22:58:00 - [41] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Artificer Ghost wrote: Is that what the charge shot is? It says in the description it has the ability to overload, like a module in EVE, I assume. No idea what that keybind would be though. :/ Hold down R1. Charge up shot. Release shot. Overheat. Overload and overheat are two different features.
Jackof All-Trades The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 410	Posted - 2014.01.28 23:37:00 - [42] - Quote What if this gun, like the shotgun, fired pellets? That means each damage value would need to be multiplied by the pellet number "Pulvis et umbra sums." We are but dust and shadow GÇò Horace, The Odes of Horace \ Omni-Specialist / Focus: Gallente
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 8647	Posted - 2014.01.28 23:54:00 - [43] - Quote Jackof All-Trades wrote: What if this gun, like the shotgun, fired pellets? That means each damage value would need to be multiplied by the pellet number According to the CPM, it doesn't. Besides which, if it fired more than about two pellets it would start to get ridiculously powerful. And if you only have two pellets, why be a pellet based weapon with so few? ZATARA CARRIES US ALL Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution MAG Raven
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 8647	Posted - 2014.01.29 00:13:00 - [44] - Quote AP Grasshopper wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Artificer Ghost wrote: Is that what the charge shot is? It says in the description it has the ability to overload, like a module in EVE, I assume. No idea what that keybind would be though. :/ Hold down R1. Charge up shot. Release shot. Overheat. Overload and overheat are two different features. Care to explain how so? ZATARA CARRIES US ALL Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution MAG Raven
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1762	Posted - 2014.01.29 03:53:00 - [45] - Quote "Overheating - or overloading, the terms are interchangeable, but I will be using overheat - is the act of purposefully pushing a fitted active module beyond its normal limits, obtaining better performance for a short period of time." Overheating 101- EVE University Armor and Shields are not the same!
Talos Alomar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2010	Posted - 2014.01.29 04:03:00 - [46] - Quote I've been running the numbers over and over in my head. The IP just seems so lackluster. Was there any official statement for just how much the charge shot boosted the damage? Try to kill it all you want CCP, I still <3 my laser.
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1762	Posted - 2014.01.29 04:04:00 - [47] - Quote Talos Alomar wrote: I've been running the numbers over and over in my head. The IP just seems so lackluster. Was there any official statement for just how much the charge shot boosted the damage? Yeah it's in the damage section of the weapons post. It is 350 damage at standard level. Armor and Shields are not the same!
Lazy Scumbag Intara Direct Action Caldari State 125	Posted - 2014.01.29 05:45:00 - [48] - Quote Wouldn't be the first time they released a gimped weapon (plasma cannon) It will almost certainly have a use, but I think I'll stick with my toxin.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 8963	Posted - 2014.02.05 20:12:00 - [49] - Quote Lazy Scumbag wrote: Wouldn't be the first time they released a gimped weapon (plasma cannon) It will almost certainly have a use, but I think I'll stick with my toxin. Quite. ZATARA CARRIES US ALL Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution MAG Raven
Meeko Fent Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 1909	Posted - 2014.03.05 04:30:00 - [50] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: MEDICO RITARDATO wrote: Cat Merc wrote: CCP hates Gallente. Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah suicide Do you not believe me human? Looks at GalLogi Right... Only for weapons... Because you Wanted to be Something your Not.

Hoover Damn H.A.R.V.E.S.T. Legacy Rising 60	Posted - 2014.03.05 05:14:00 - [51] - Quote Talos Alomar wrote: Asha Starwind wrote: You don't know how damage it does,[/u][/b] based solely on the released stats. Pellets/bullets fired per shot is not listed, and you're making the assumption that it is 1, and that may be wrong. If it were a shotgun like weapon that would be an odd thing to leave out of the description. Positively bizarre. Indeed, unthinkable.
deepfried salad gilliam Sanguine Knights 461	Posted - 2014.03.05 05:31:00 - [52] - Quote mayne itll be dirt cheap like 250 isk for proto and on 4 cpu and 0 pg Proud Christian add p2p already!
Awry Barux Ametat Security Amarr Empire 1399	Posted - 2014.03.05 06:06:00 - [53] - Quote I think you're majorly underestimating the value of the charge shot. 385 damage at proto is more than a Thale's. Throw in Prof and maybe a sidearm damage mod or two, and you're looking at pushing 500 damage alpha in your sidearm slot. That'll OHK the vast majority of STD mediums. Combine this with a headshot and you're OHKing most medium frames with your sidearm. Combine this level of alpha with rifle nerfs and you'll be well served by starting every engagement within 20m with a charged shot from an Ion Pistol. Much like the scrambler rifle, some will call it mediocre in comparison to the full-auto options, but in skilled hands the alpha damage is going to harvest buckets and buckets of tears. Respec in 1.8 due to huge battlefield role shift for MinLogi! All my posts are respec posts (Gò»°Gûí°n+ëGò»n+¦ Gö+GöüGö+ LockmeBro!
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 10404	Posted - 2014.03.05 07:10:00 - [54] - Quote Awry Barux wrote: I think you're majorly underestimating the value of the charge shot. 385 damage at proto is more than a Thale's. Throw in Prof and maybe a sidearm damage mod or two, and you're looking at pushing 500 damage alpha in your sidearm slot. That'll OHK the vast majority of STD mediums. Combine this with a headshot and you're OHKing most medium frames with your sidearm. Combine this level of alpha with rifle nerfs and you'll be well served by starting every engagement within 20m with a charged shot from an Ion Pistol. Much like the scrambler rifle, some will call it mediocre in comparison to the full-auto options, but in skilled hands the alpha damage is going to harvest buckets and buckets of tears. The difference between the scrambler rifle and the ion pistol is that the scrambler rifle can follow up shots. What if you don't OHKO with your charge shot with the ion pistol? You are dead. It's not a case of just starting each engagement with the ion pistol and then switching to a rifle or main weapon because the ion pistol overheats when the charge shot is used. Looking at precedents for that, what can't we do whilst overheated? Switch weapons, sprint, throw grenades, etc. As a result, it can't really be used competitively even if you're headshotting fairly consistently. But if you're headshotting, why not use the scrambler pistol? It'll do an absurd amount more damage than the ion pistol, while also having the ability to fire follow up shots immediately. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 11962	Posted - 2014.04.01 07:23:00 - [55] - Quote Predictably, on release, the ion pistol has exactly the same stats and does not have multiple 'pellets' per shot. It also features an overheat function that doesn't actually require charging the weapon. Oh, and if that wasn't bad enough the hipfire spread is massive aaaaand... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hg6ehAbPV-A&feature=youtu.be You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Talos Alomar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2140	Posted - 2014.04.01 19:31:00 - [56] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Predictably, on release, the ion pistol has exactly the same stats and does not have multiple 'pellets' per shot. It also features an overheat function that doesn't actually require charging the weapon. Oh, and if that wasn't bad enough the hipfire spread is massive aaaaand... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hg6ehAbPV-A&feature=youtu.be Reactive plates all over again. Gal-mando. Because the best sidearm is a shotgun.
CLONE117 True Pros Forever 739	Posted - 2014.04.01 21:10:00 - [57] - Quote kill the over heat buff the clip size to 20.. buff base ammo capacity as well. leave everything else as is.


Pages: 1 2 :: [one page]

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online/DUST514, the EVE/DUST514 logo, EVE/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to OMG Labs to use EVE Online/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, OMG Labs. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.