DUST Search - Reduce speed while backpeddling

Asha Starwind wrote:

Ulysses Knapse wrote:

You can walk backwards almost as quickly as you can walk backwards. The human body was made primarily to move forward, and walking backwards uses the same muscles in a similar way. Walking sideways does not. Not to mention walking backwards already has a penalty: it's disorienting as is.

Please explain to me why walking sideways should be 28.5% faster than walking backwards, when walking forwards is only 11% faster than walking backwards. Go ahead, I'm listening.

Because the limiting factors are different for each direction.

You do not use the same exact muscles, nor in the same order to move in any direction. There are common muscles/groups common to each form of locomotion but they are not doing the same amount of work nor appear in the same sequence to say 'uses the same muscles in similar way' is just wrong.

Structure: Your legs and feet are designed to direct as much of the force generated by your muscles completely downwards synchronously when moving forward. When walking backwards your heel has a tendency to move downward and planting itself drastically reducing the downwards force. Also, because of the way you feet are design can't balance yourself as well.

On that alone you will never be able to move as fast as you backwards as you do forwards, even if you were able to rotate your head 180 degrees.

Those factors don't have much bearing on moving sideways, which again uses different muscles, but that only limits how much force is available to be applied. The only limiting factor here is stride.

What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage?

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William HBonney Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 370	Posted - 2014.01.26 02:25:00 - [1] - Quote Why is the speed while backing up the same as moving forward? I have kited so many heavies and knife/shotgun weilding scouts because when I backpeddle I put significant space between us, while I am able to shoot them. Perhaps a 10-20% decrease in speed while backpeddling would help. Thoughts?
Musta Tornius Black Phoenix Mercenaries Legacy Rising 1011	Posted - 2014.01.26 02:39:00 - [2] - Quote I concur. I wonder why it is set the same as frontal movement. In the SDE it's just a simple 1.x modifier that they could change for any suit. DUST514 Weapon Range & Information Team Fairy DUST
Ulysses Knapse Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm 1132	Posted - 2014.01.26 02:48:00 - [3] - Quote Musta Tornius wrote: I concur. I wonder why it is set the same as frontal movement. In the SDE it's just a simple 1.x modifier that they could change for any suit. What is this "SDE" you speak of? I'm fairly certain Dust 514 uses Unreal Engine 3. What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage? The pile of garbage is more lethal.
OverIord Ulath Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 35	Posted - 2014.01.26 03:20:00 - [4] - Quote Agreed. This is one of the things that hinders scouts and all other CQC weapon users. Should be at least a 20-30% speed penalty for backpedaling. If you are gonna run from a Nova Knife scout, you should have to about-face and RUN.
Jackof All-Trades The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 381	Posted - 2014.01.26 05:55:00 - [5] - Quote A surprisingly simple fix to a remarkably frustrating problem. All likes to you +1 "Pulvis et umbra sums." We are but dust and shadow GÇò Horace, The Odes of Horace \ Omni-Specialist / Focus: Gallente
Maken Tosch Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6581	Posted - 2014.01.26 08:21:00 - [6] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: Musta Tornius wrote: I concur. I wonder why it is set the same as frontal movement. In the SDE it's just a simple 1.x modifier that they could change for any suit. What is this "SDE" you speak of? I'm fairly certain Dust 514 uses Unreal Engine 3. It's called Static Data Export that CCP uses to show the data that is directly tied to the game. Think of it as a snapshot of the actual data. It even gives data points on things that you don't see in the game such as actual damage bonus to shield and armor, stamina drain between normal sprinting and jumping while sprinting. Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
Ulysses Knapse Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm 1142	Posted - 2014.01.26 08:45:00 - [7] - Quote OverIord Ulath wrote: Should be at least a 20-30% speed penalty for backpedaling. There's only a 10% speed penalty for walking sideways, but you want up to a 30% penalty for walking backwards? How is that reasonable? The backwards walking penalty should not be higher than the sideways walking penalty. Human physiology doesn't work like that, nor is walking backwards as pressing an issue as strafing. What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage? The pile of garbage is more lethal.
Maken Tosch Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6584	Posted - 2014.01.26 09:44:00 - [8] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: OverIord Ulath wrote: Should be at least a 20-30% speed penalty for backpedaling. There's only a 10% speed penalty for walking sideways, but you want up to a 30% penalty for walking backwards? How is that reasonable? The backwards walking penalty should not be higher than the sideways walking penalty. Human physiology doesn't work like that, nor is walking backwards as pressing an issue as strafing. I agree that the backpedal speed should be equal to the strafing speed. Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
Omareth Nasadra The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 268	Posted - 2014.01.26 09:51:00 - [9] - Quote good thread, +1 good sir Minmatar, In rust we trust!!! Omareth Nasadra/Erynyes
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 996	Posted - 2014.01.26 15:17:00 - [10] - Quote Supported. Though backpedal speed could be the same as strafing, at least for the beginning. FEEDBACK: Analysis on 1.7 tank functionality

Hoover Damn H.A.R.V.E.S.T. Legacy Rising 22	Posted - 2014.01.26 17:05:00 - [11] - Quote OverIord Ulath wrote: Agreed. This is one of the things that hinders scouts and all other CQC weapon users. Should be at least a 20-30% speed penalty for backpedaling. If you are gonna run from a Nova Knife scout, you should have to about-face and RUN. Nah, I already can't sprint backwards. That covers it.
noob cavman Tickle My Null-Sac 457	Posted - 2014.01.26 17:46:00 - [12] - Quote Ahhhh back peddlers.... the bane of my knife fits and the reason why I have to raptor jump on your face and stab your eyes Would be a caveman but whisky and jolly forbidding me to get it changed :_; British ninja cowboy scout, logi, heavy
KANE SHIELDGARD Banshee Tactical 0	Posted - 2014.01.26 18:02:00 - [13] - Quote It's already reduced. Stand complwtely still then go straight back. you'll see what i mean. If your moving forward then suddenly jerk back you will move the same speed. which is good. If you start to go backwards from a motionless position you will move slow.
Asha Starwind VEXALATION CORPORATION Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage 228	Posted - 2014.01.26 19:30:00 - [14] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: OverIord Ulath wrote: Should be at least a 20-30% speed penalty for backpedaling. There's only a 10% speed penalty for walking sideways, but you want up to a 30% penalty for walking backwards? How is that reasonable? The backwards walking penalty should not be higher than the sideways walking penalty. Human physiology doesn't work like that, nor is walking backwards as pressing an issue as strafing. That is 100% grade A festering bull**** that you pulled out of your ass. Go watch a ballet show and realize how wrong you are. edit: If ballet is too girly for you watch the defensive players in a football/basketball game. Before someone chimes in "but they're athletes", soldiers are athletes too.
William HBonney Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 379	Posted - 2014.01.27 03:42:00 - [15] - Quote If we want to be realistic, walking backwards is a real pain. Moving side to side still allows for peripheral vision, while moving backwards does not allow for any vision aid, unless you turn your head, in which case you cannot shoot the person coming at you. So, in order to find that median between fun and real, I think a 10%-20% loss of speed while backpeddling is a good thing. I know people who love to kite will hate this idea, but far too often it hinders gameplay and gives advantages to long range weapons, when they already have plenty.
William HBonney Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 379	Posted - 2014.01.27 14:42:00 - [16] - Quote I think this may be important.
Squagga The State Protectorate 79	Posted - 2014.01.27 18:43:00 - [17] - Quote I don't wanna agree to it but I agree to it Reloading, the silent killer.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 8654	Posted - 2014.01.27 18:46:00 - [18] - Quote +1 Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
Artificer Ghost Learning Coalition College 1126	Posted - 2014.01.27 18:59:00 - [19] - Quote +1 because I'm going to be a 1.8 Knifer. :D ~Art, CEO and DoE at Learning Coalition College, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition Maken Tosch = 1000th Like!
Doshneil Antaro Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 185	Posted - 2014.01.27 21:51:00 - [20] - Quote CCP must have thought about this for some time. The proof is in the warbarge. Backpetaling is slow as hell, but forward and strafing is quick. Movement speed on the barge is also dictated by speed of favorited suit, even takes kincats into consideration.

Ulysses Knapse Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm 1162	Posted - 2014.01.27 23:19:00 - [21] - Quote Asha Starwind wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: OverIord Ulath wrote: Should be at least a 20-30% speed penalty for backpedaling. There's only a 10% speed penalty for walking sideways, but you want up to a 30% penalty for walking backwards? How is that reasonable? The backwards walking penalty should not be higher than the sideways walking penalty. Human physiology doesn't work like that, nor is walking backwards as pressing an issue as strafing. That is 100% grade A festering bull**** that you pulled out of your ass. Go watch a ballet show and realize how wrong you are. edit: If ballet is too girly for you watch the defensive players in a football/basketball game. Before someone chimes in "but they're athletes", soldiers are athletes too. Except, the reason people don't walk backwards is because it disorients them, not because it's physiologically difficult. What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage? The pile of garbage is more lethal.
Asha Starwind VEXALATION CORPORATION Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage 242	Posted - 2014.01.27 23:29:00 - [22] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: Asha Starwind wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: OverIord Ulath wrote: Should be at least a 20-30% speed penalty for backpedaling. There's only a 10% speed penalty for walking sideways, but you want up to a 30% penalty for walking backwards? How is that reasonable? The backwards walking penalty should not be higher than the sideways walking penalty. Human physiology doesn't work like that, nor is walking backwards as pressing an issue as strafing. That is 100% grade A festering bull**** that you pulled out of your ass. Go watch a ballet show and realize how wrong you are. edit: If ballet is too girly for you watch the defensive players in a football/basketball game. Before someone chimes in "but they're athletes", soldiers are athletes too. Except, the reason people don't walk backwards is because it disorients them, not because it's physiologically difficult. Lateral is movement is nowhere near as disorienting as backwards movement, so why should the lateral movement penalty be higher or equal to backwards movement?
ADAM-OF-EVE Dead Man's Game 845	Posted - 2014.01.27 23:50:00 - [23] - Quote also massively reduce sideways and backwards jumping distance by 50-90% https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
Ulysses Knapse Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm 1163	Posted - 2014.01.28 00:10:00 - [24] - Quote Asha Starwind wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: Asha Starwind wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: OverIord Ulath wrote: Should be at least a 20-30% speed penalty for backpedaling. There's only a 10% speed penalty for walking sideways, but you want up to a 30% penalty for walking backwards? How is that reasonable? The backwards walking penalty should not be higher than the sideways walking penalty. Human physiology doesn't work like that, nor is walking backwards as pressing an issue as strafing. That is 100% grade A festering bull**** that you pulled out of your ass. Go watch a ballet show and realize how wrong you are. edit: If ballet is too girly for you watch the defensive players in a football/basketball game. Before someone chimes in "but they're athletes", soldiers are athletes too. Except, the reason people don't walk backwards is because it disorients them, not because it's physiologically difficult. Lateral is movement is nowhere near as disorienting as backwards movement, so why should the lateral movement penalty be higher or equal to backwards movement? You can walk backwards almost as quickly as you can walk backwards. The human body was made primarily to move forward, and walking backwards uses the same muscles in a similar way. Walking sideways does not. Not to mention walking backwards already has a penalty: it's disorienting as is. Please explain to me why walking sideways should be 28.5% faster than walking backwards, when walking forwards is only 11% faster than walking backwards. Go ahead, I'm listening. What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage? The pile of garbage is more lethal.
Andrew Ka Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 38	Posted - 2014.01.28 00:39:00 - [25] - Quote I came here to say the same thing. Its been my biggest frustration. Assaults moving backwards, spraying bullets, able to keep enough of a distance to stop me from knifing them and to land the strays that kill me.
Asha Starwind VEXALATION CORPORATION Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage 244	Posted - 2014.01.28 01:11:00 - [26] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: You can walk backwards almost as quickly as you can walk backwards. The human body was made primarily to move forward, and walking backwards uses the same muscles in a similar way. Walking sideways does not. Not to mention walking backwards already has a penalty: it's disorienting as is. Please explain to me why walking sideways should be 28.5% faster than walking backwards, when walking forwards is only 11% faster than walking backwards. Go ahead, I'm listening. Because the limiting factors are different for each direction. You do not use the same exact muscles, nor in the same order to move in any direction. There are common muscles/groups common to each form of locomotion but they are not doing the same amount of work nor appear in the same sequence to say 'uses the same muscles in similar way' is just wrong. Structure: Your legs and feet are designed to direct as much of the force generated by your muscles completely downwards synchronously when moving forward. When walking backwards your heel has a tendency to move downward and planting itself drastically reducing the downwards force. Also, because of the way you feet are design can't balance yourself as well. On that alone you will never be able to move as fast as you backwards as you do forwards, even if you were able to rotate your head 180 degrees. Those factors don't have much bearing on moving sideways, which again uses different muscles, but that only limits how much force is available to be applied. The only limiting factor here is stride.
Ulysses Knapse Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm 1164	Posted - 2014.01.28 01:34:00 - [27] - Quote Asha Starwind wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: You can walk backwards almost as quickly as you can walk backwards. The human body was made primarily to move forward, and walking backwards uses the same muscles in a similar way. Walking sideways does not. Not to mention walking backwards already has a penalty: it's disorienting as is. Please explain to me why walking sideways should be 28.5% faster than walking backwards, when walking forwards is only 11% faster than walking backwards. Go ahead, I'm listening. Because the limiting factors are different for each direction. You do not use the same exact muscles, nor in the same order to move in any direction. There are common muscles/groups common to each form of locomotion but they are not doing the same amount of work nor appear in the same sequence to say 'uses the same muscles in similar way' is just wrong. Structure: Your legs and feet are designed to direct as much of the force generated by your muscles completely downwards synchronously when moving forward. When walking backwards your heel has a tendency to move downward and planting itself drastically reducing the downwards force. Also, because of the way you feet are design can't balance yourself as well. On that alone you will never be able to move as fast as you backwards as you do forwards, even if you were able to rotate your head 180 degrees. Those factors don't have much bearing on moving sideways, which again uses different muscles, but that only limits how much force is available to be applied. The only limiting factor here is stride. A 30% reduction is still far too drastic. I'm not saying walking backwards should be as fast as it is, but it shouldn't be anywhere near that slow. What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage? The pile of garbage is more lethal.
deepfried salad gilliam Sanguine Knights 404	Posted - 2014.01.28 03:10:00 - [28] - Quote Asha Starwind wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: OverIord Ulath wrote: Should be at least a 20-30% speed penalty for backpedaling. There's only a 10% speed penalty for walking sideways, but you want up to a 30% penalty for walking backwards? How is that reasonable? The backwards walking penalty should not be higher than the sideways walking penalty. Human physiology doesn't work like that, nor is walking backwards as pressing an issue as strafing. That is 100% grade A festering bull**** that you pulled out of your ass. Go watch a ballet show and realize how wrong you are. edit: If ballet is too girly for you watch the defensive players in a football/basketball game. Before someone chimes in "but they're athletes", soldiers are athletes too. i was about to chime in about how i can jog backwards at near same speed as forward, as i often do in rotc to ecourage my other classmates during p.t. but i think you covered it Proud Christian one of the most essential parts of eve is left out of dust: freedom, exploration, open-world gameplay.
deepfried salad gilliam Sanguine Knights 404	Posted - 2014.01.28 03:13:00 - [29] - Quote Asha Starwind wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: Asha Starwind wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: OverIord Ulath wrote: Should be at least a 20-30% speed penalty for backpedaling. There's only a 10% speed penalty for walking sideways, but you want up to a 30% penalty for walking backwards? How is that reasonable? The backwards walking penalty should not be higher than the sideways walking penalty. Human physiology doesn't work like that, nor is walking backwards as pressing an issue as strafing. That is 100% grade A festering bull**** that you pulled out of your ass. Go watch a ballet show and realize how wrong you are. edit: If ballet is too girly for you watch the defensive players in a football/basketball game. Before someone chimes in "but they're athletes", soldiers are athletes too. Except, the reason people don't walk backwards is because it disorients them, not because it's physiologically difficult. Lateral is movement is nowhere near as disorienting as backwards movement, so why should the lateral movement penalty be higher or equal to backwards movement? backwards movement is only dissorienting because you cant see where youre going , you can still move much faster backwards than sideways, due to the fact our legs are meant for forward backwards motions Proud Christian one of the most essential parts of eve is left out of dust: freedom, exploration, open-world gameplay.
KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 462	Posted - 2014.01.28 03:22:00 - [30] - Quote If you want realism, go join the Army. This is just another thread filled with people who don't want to hit moving targets. Boo Hoo.



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