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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance
1027
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Posted - 2014.01.25 00:41:00 -
[1] - Quote
So, I want to love the Gallente weapons, but they just seem to have so many terrible design flaws. The Ion pistol is the newest addition, and I am afraid that I will soon be tossing it on the useless weapons pile with all the other Gal weaponry.
The breakdown:
RoF: 375 r/m (this will be utterly horrendous as a simi-automatic weapon: single shot RoF don't begin to really shine until around 460 r/m. The Ion Pistol will be severely out classed by even the std Scrambler Pistol, in every aspect (e.g. range, damage, RoF)
Damage: 50 - 55 HP (this is easily out classed by the Scrambler Pistol's damage of 80 - 88. Ah, but what about the charged shot, you may be thinking. Well essentially, as it stands now, it will end up being entirely useless. I'll explain later.)
Range: 24m (out ranged by every other sidearm - in most cases hilariously out ranged.)
So, what does the Ion pistol get to make up for horrendous performance as a weapon?
Larger max ammo: 72 rounds (yay, now I can use this completely ineffective weapon longer with out having to resupply
Larger mag size: 12 rounds (see above)
I was hoping that the charged shot would be the saving grace here, but after having read the description for the Ion Pisto,l when it was first found on Sisi, and after seeing the charge up time and damage output of the charge shot, I am now sure that it will not be, unless something changes:
The Sisi description: described the charge shot as overheating the weapon with a single charge. (the charge shot on the proto does 385 damage, this will not even be enough to deliver an OHK to most scouts post 1.8, and I'd an over heat has a secure duration you won't be able to swap weapons after a charge shot. The charge shot will be pretty much worthless in any situation can't open with it because then you can't swap weapons and can't close with it because it has a 1.4 second charge time. Terrible.
Charge time: 1.4 seconds (just terrible. See above)
IMO, to make this weapon relevant, decrease the charge time to around .6 - .75, and make it capable of foreign two charge shots before overheating.
I hope that I am wrong here and it turns out to be a great weapon, but I don't think I am.
{:)}{3GÇó>
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NK Scout
Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State
72
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Posted - 2014.01.25 00:47:00 -
[2] - Quote
bolt pistol ftw belong to which race?
2 exiles assault rifles,
Skinweave caldari frame,
Staff recruiter militia frame,
Templar set
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Horizen Kenpachi
Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire
137
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Posted - 2014.01.25 00:49:00 -
[3] - Quote
Consider headshots it may have a massive mutiplyer like the scp but to be honest not looked at any of the new goodies so my opinion is ignorant
Hit me with your nerf bat.
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Joel II X
Dah Gods O Bacon
643
|
Posted - 2014.01.25 00:50:00 -
[4] - Quote
I agree. The RoF is not enough to cover for the low range.
It should be like the assault Scrambler Pistol, but with the charge function.
Also, increasing the range a tad bit to 30 or 35 to complement other Gallente weapons (such as the shotgun or Plasma Cannon).
As for the damage, increasing that to about 70-80 would seem about right (to compete with the other pistols (except Flaylock; Flaylock needs buff)) |
Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance
1027
|
Posted - 2014.01.25 00:50:00 -
[5] - Quote
Horizen Kenpachi wrote:Consider headshots it may have a massive mutiplyer like the scp but to be honest not looked at any of the new goodies so my opinion is ignorant
No head shot mentioned.
{:)}{3GÇó>
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Joel II X
Dah Gods O Bacon
643
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Posted - 2014.01.25 00:50:00 -
[6] - Quote
NK Scout wrote:bolt pistol ftw belong to which race? Bolt Pistol is Caldari. |
NK Scout
Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State
72
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Posted - 2014.01.25 00:55:00 -
[7] - Quote
Joel II X wrote:NK Scout wrote:bolt pistol ftw belong to which race? Bolt Pistol is Caldari.
2 exiles assault rifles,
Skinweave caldari frame,
Staff recruiter militia frame,
Templar set
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance
1028
|
Posted - 2014.01.25 01:03:00 -
[8] - Quote
OP has now been edited. Damn you auto correct!
{:)}{3GÇó>
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BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
1694
|
Posted - 2014.01.25 01:07:00 -
[9] - Quote
Son-Of A-Gun wrote:So, I want to love the Gallente weapons, but they just seem to have so many terrible design flaws. The Ion pistol is the newest addition, and I am afraid that I will soon be tossing it on the useless weapons pile with all the other Gal weaponry.
The breakdown:
RoF: 375 r/m (this will be utterly horrendous as a simi-automatic weapon: single shot RoF don't begin to really shine until around 460 r/m. The Ion Pistol will be severely out classed by even the std Scrambler Pistol, in every aspect (e.g. range, damage, RoF)
Damage: 50 - 55 HP (this is easily out classed by the Scrambler Pistol's damage of 80 - 88. Ah, but what about the charged shot, you may be thinking. Well essentially, as it stands now, it will end up being entirely useless. I'll explain later.)
Range: 24m (out ranged by every other sidearm - in most cases hilariously out ranged.)
So, what does the Ion pistol get to make up for horrendous performance as a weapon?
Larger max ammo: 72 rounds (yay, now I can use this completely ineffective weapon longer with out having to resupply
Larger mag size: 12 rounds (see above)
I was hoping that the charged shot would be the saving grace here, but after having read the description for the Ion Pisto, when it was first found on Sisi, and after seeing the charge up time and damage output of the charge shot, I am now sure that it will not be, unless something changes:
The Sisi description: described the charge shot as overheating the weapon with a single charge. (the charge shot on the proto does 385 damage, this will not even be enough to deliver an OHK to most scouts post 1.8, and if an over heat has a seizure duration you won't be able to swap weapons after a charge shot. The charge shot will be pretty much worthless in any situation: can't open with it because then you can't swap weapons, and can't close with it because it has a 1.4 second charge time. Terrible.
Charge time: 1.4 seconds (just terrible. See above)
IMO, to make this weapon relevant, decrease the charge time to around .6 - .75, and make it capable of firing two charge shots before overheating.
I hope that I am wrong here and it turns out to be a great weapon, but I don't think I am.
Wanna know something funny? if the damage remained the same but it did not overheat spamming the charged shot would give you a DPS of 237 that's lower than the DPS without the charged shot! Needless to say it's unchanged damage is underwhelming and it's range kills it.
Armor and Shields are not the same!
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance
1029
|
Posted - 2014.01.25 01:13:00 -
[10] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:Son-Of A-Gun wrote:So, I want to love the Gallente weapons, but they just seem to have so many terrible design flaws. The Ion pistol is the newest addition, and I am afraid that I will soon be tossing it on the useless weapons pile with all the other Gal weaponry.
The breakdown:
RoF: 375 r/m (this will be utterly horrendous as a simi-automatic weapon: single shot RoF don't begin to really shine until around 460 r/m. The Ion Pistol will be severely out classed by even the std Scrambler Pistol, in every aspect (e.g. range, damage, RoF)
Damage: 50 - 55 HP (this is easily out classed by the Scrambler Pistol's damage of 80 - 88. Ah, but what about the charged shot, you may be thinking. Well essentially, as it stands now, it will end up being entirely useless. I'll explain later.)
Range: 24m (out ranged by every other sidearm - in most cases hilariously out ranged.)
So, what does the Ion pistol get to make up for horrendous performance as a weapon?
Larger max ammo: 72 rounds (yay, now I can use this completely ineffective weapon longer with out having to resupply
Larger mag size: 12 rounds (see above)
I was hoping that the charged shot would be the saving grace here, but after having read the description for the Ion Pisto, when it was first found on Sisi, and after seeing the charge up time and damage output of the charge shot, I am now sure that it will not be, unless something changes:
The Sisi description: described the charge shot as overheating the weapon with a single charge. (the charge shot on the proto does 385 damage, this will not even be enough to deliver an OHK to most scouts post 1.8, and if an over heat has a seizure duration you won't be able to swap weapons after a charge shot. The charge shot will be pretty much worthless in any situation: can't open with it because then you can't swap weapons, and can't close with it because it has a 1.4 second charge time. Terrible.
Charge time: 1.4 seconds (just terrible. See above)
IMO, to make this weapon relevant, decrease the charge time to around .6 - .75, and make it capable of firing two charge shots before overheating.
I hope that I am wrong here and it turns out to be a great weapon, but I don't think I am. Wanna know something funny? if the damage remained the same but it did not overheat spamming the charged shot would give you a DPS of 237 that's lower than the DPS without the charged shot! Needless to say it's unchanged damage is underwhelming and it's range kills it.
CCP seems to be great at balancing mid to long range weapons, but utter crap with short range.
{:)}{3GÇó>
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Scheneighnay McBob
Learning Coalition College
3695
|
Posted - 2014.01.25 01:55:00 -
[11] - Quote
I'm actually starting to like my flaylock- great for getting that last armor-obliterating shot in after you run out of ammo with your primary.
I am your scan error.
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Scheneighnay McBob
Learning Coalition College
3695
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Posted - 2014.01.25 01:58:00 -
[12] - Quote
Also, I realize that there should be 2 types of sidearms:
Ones that can be used as weapons by themselves (knives) and ones that are simply backup after running out of ammo (flaylocks)
All sidearms should be designed with 1 role or the other in mind. By the sound of it, the ion pistol is meant to be used by itself.
I am your scan error.
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance
1031
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Posted - 2014.01.25 01:59:00 -
[13] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:I'm actually starting to like my flaylock- great for getting that last armor-obliterating shot in after you run out of ammo with your primary.
That is another thing with the IP, it is not designed to be a closing weapon: 90% efficiency to armor. More reason why it needs a far shorter charge time and the ability to fire two charge shots before overheating.
{:)}{3GÇó>
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Shiruba Ryou
158
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Posted - 2014.01.25 02:20:00 -
[14] - Quote
Horizen Kenpachi wrote:Consider headshots it may have a massive mutiplyer like the scp but to be honest not looked at any of the new goodies so my opinion is ignorant
CCP Saberwing asked Wolfman and confirmed that none of the new rifles have a headshot multiplier like the Scrambler Pistol on the IRC last night.
EDIT: I meant Pistols. Sorry typo
"Not to worry. The cards say you loved it."
- Ryoutoshi
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BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
1694
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Posted - 2014.01.25 02:25:00 -
[15] - Quote
Shiruba Ryou wrote:Horizen Kenpachi wrote:Consider headshots it may have a massive mutiplyer like the scp but to be honest not looked at any of the new goodies so my opinion is ignorant CCP Saberwing asked Wolfman and confirmed that none of the new rifles have a headshot multiplier like the Scrambler Pistol on the IRC last night.
Rifles?
Armor and Shields are not the same!
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Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising
2081
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Posted - 2014.01.25 02:27:00 -
[16] - Quote
Shiruba Ryou wrote:Horizen Kenpachi wrote:Consider headshots it may have a massive mutiplyer like the scp but to be honest not looked at any of the new goodies so my opinion is ignorant CCP Saberwing asked Wolfman and confirmed that none of the new rifles have a headshot multiplier like the Scrambler Pistol on the IRC last night. But it's a pistol! Why wouldn't have a multiplier!?
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
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Shiruba Ryou
158
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Posted - 2014.01.25 02:29:00 -
[17] - Quote
Meant Pistols sorry. I edited it. Been talking about rifles for so long I guess it's stuck on the brain. Rifle514 as the think-they're-clever forumers would say.
"Not to worry. The cards say you loved it."
- Ryoutoshi
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Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising
2081
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Posted - 2014.01.25 02:33:00 -
[18] - Quote
Shiruba Ryou wrote:Meant Pistols sorry. I edited it. Been talking about rifles for so long I guess it's stuck on the brain. Rifle514 as the think-they're-clever forumers would say. I knew what ya meant.
I was really asking why it doesn't have a multiplier like the ScR, just it doesn't scramble brains but it should do something.
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
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Shiruba Ryou
158
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Posted - 2014.01.25 02:38:00 -
[19] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:Shiruba Ryou wrote:Meant Pistols sorry. I edited it. Been talking about rifles for so long I guess it's stuck on the brain. Rifle514 as the think-they're-clever forumers would say. I knew what ya meant. I was really asking why it doesn't have a multiplier like the ScR, just it doesn't scramble brains but it should do something.
Didn't ask. Someone asked Saber if the Ion Pistol got a similar crazy headshot multiplier, he said he had to ask Wolfman, I'm guessing he was like right next to him or he has his cell number cause within a few minutes he sad he said none of the other pistols was having that.
'Why' that is I don't think they would answer. Seems a little like them telling us how they want us to use something, which they dislike doing so that we make up things to do with them.
"Not to worry. The cards say you loved it."
- Ryoutoshi
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Texs Red
DUST University Ivy League
121
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Posted - 2014.01.25 02:42:00 -
[20] - Quote
Lets look at it this way:
Bolt Pistol: 54 optimal, 72 effective, 6 shots in the clip, full-auto 891 damage over 2.4 seconds, 371 DPS
Ion Pistol: 24 optimal, 42 effective, 12 shots in the clip, single shot 660 damage over 2.16 seconds (or however long it takes you to depress the trigger 12 times), 305 DPS
So the ion pistol gets half the range with almost 70 less DPS and an almost useless charge shot (considering a charge shot overheats the weapon). |
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BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
1694
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Posted - 2014.01.25 02:48:00 -
[21] - Quote
Shiruba Ryou wrote:Meant Pistols sorry. I edited it. Been talking about rifles for so long I guess it's stuck on the brain. Rifle514 as the think-they're-clever forumers would say.
I feel ya its a never ending battle really.
Armor and Shields are not the same!
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Texs Red
DUST University Ivy League
122
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Posted - 2014.01.25 04:03:00 -
[22] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Also, I realize that there should be 2 types of sidearms:
Ones that can be used as weapons by themselves (knives) and ones that are simply backup after running out of ammo (flaylocks)
All sidearms should be designed with 1 role or the other in mind. By the sound of it, the ion pistol is meant to be used by itself.
I disagree, I think each side arm should have the ability to operate as effectively as a light weapon in it's niche situation. The counter balance being it's use is situational (i.e. short range) and limited spare ammo. A side arm isn't just a finishing weapon but also something you can fall back on once you run out of ammo for your main weapon. It won't last that long due to limited ammo or being overly situational but should be enough that hopefully you can get to a nanohive or supply depot.
That being the case the Ion pistol needs improvement, personally I don't understand why the damage and clip size of the ion pistol vs bolt pistol aren't switched. The bolt pistol has more range so it should have a longer TTK because you have a better ability to dictate the engagement vs a close range, high damage weapon that has a lower TTK because it's ability to determine engagement range is very limited. Isn't this weapon balance 101? |
Asha Starwind
VEXALATION CORPORATION Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage
221
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Posted - 2014.01.25 05:30:00 -
[23] - Quote
I wouldn't comment on any of the new weapons until we know what their respective operation skill bonuses are going to be at this point were speculating with half the equation. Just imagine if the bonus was a RoF bonus, or a range bonus or both. |
Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention
4112
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Posted - 2014.01.25 05:46:00 -
[24] - Quote
CCP just hates armor races.
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The BIackfish
Kinsho Swords Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2014.01.25 05:51:00 -
[25] - Quote
Asha Starwind wrote:I wouldn't comment on any of the new weapons until we know what their respective operation skill bonuses are going to be at this point were speculating with half the equation. Just imagine if the bonus was a RoF bonus, or a range bonus or both.
Agree why we complaining about a pistol that has not come out or no footage of it in action, so i say just wait till it comes out and see how it does before we make a thing about it |
DeadlyAztec11
Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation
3542
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Posted - 2014.01.25 07:17:00 -
[26] - Quote
How troubling. Times like this I'am glad I was smart enough to skill into SMG's. The only good investment I made.
My alts: General John Ripper, Draxus Prime, MoonEagle A, Anarchide, Long Evity
And this is why I am the #1 forum warrior
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Lynn Beck
Granite Mercenary Division Top Men.
585
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Posted - 2014.01.25 07:27:00 -
[27] - Quote
Sidearms that are reliable primaries- scrambler, smg, (maybe) bolt, ion. Sidearms that are unreliable/finishers- flaylock, ion(again, maybe?)
Finishers need high burst DPS, but not enough clipsize to kill a decent frame in 1 clip. Otherwise, you'd run a primary sidearm for its overall effectiveness. Primary sidearms will be outclassed by lights by range and sustained DPS.
I just don't know where the ion will fit into this category...
Under 28db
Officially nerfproof (predicting CR nerf February '14)
I have a God, His name is Dakka.
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Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
3300
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Posted - 2014.01.25 08:31:00 -
[28] - Quote
At STD level, the Ion pistol charge shot does 350 damage. The damage on a Thales Sniper Rifle is 355. The damage on a "Charge" Sniper Rifle is 322 or so. Both of those are PRO level, and the Ion PRO has a single shot dmg of 385, higher than both.
With 3 complex dmg mods and prof 5, the charge shot becomes 560 dmg, and a Gallente commando with 1 complex dmg mod would do 535 dmg with it. If it has a "standard" headshot bonus (like the AR, shotgun, etc.) that's 1.5x. That's 840 damage in the former case, and 803 in the latter. That's enough to 1-shot almost any suit in the game.
Join my cult.
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P1nK13 P13
Apothic Void
16
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Posted - 2014.01.25 12:03:00 -
[29] - Quote
This game should be renamed to Caldari 514 Hell, "CCP" might even mean "Caldari's Cool Pistols" Goddamn it CCP where is the Gallente Love? |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention
8350
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Posted - 2014.01.25 12:19:00 -
[30] - Quote
Another classic example of short range weapons being awful. Seriously, why does CCP not understand that you can't give weapons a longer range AND better damage than others?
The BIackfish wrote:Asha Starwind wrote:I wouldn't comment on any of the new weapons until we know what their respective operation skill bonuses are going to be at this point were speculating with half the equation. Just imagine if the bonus was a RoF bonus, or a range bonus or both. Agree why we complaining about a pistol that has not come out or no footage of it in action, so i say just wait till it comes out and see how it does before we make a thing about it
We have the stats. From the stats it is ridiculously obvious that the Ion Pistol is bad.
Level 5 Proficiency 3 Forum Warrior
Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution
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