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RedZer0 MK1
The Generals General Tso's Alliance
161
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Posted - 2014.01.23 23:30:00 -
[1] - Quote
Been kicking around with an alt since 1.7. Had originally specced into dropsuits, but decided to switch vehicles for a change. One thing has stood out since I started running militia tanks. Surprise surprise, its rail guns. The problem isn't quite the amount of damage they do, but the range. At miltia and standard, the range is too great. As of now it functions like a sniper rifle, as opposed to a tactical rifle. Which would be more fair to AV infantry and other vehicles. Since I started thinking of this stuff, I have been noting different engagment ranges. This is what I have come up with.
Militia: 300m Standard: 345m Advanced: 390m Proto: 435m
The upside for infantry av (namely swarms) is it pushes rails into a more engagable range. It also somewhat mitigates redline rail lockdown. |
Eko Sol
3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance
73
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Posted - 2014.01.23 23:33:00 -
[2] - Quote
RedZer0 MK1 wrote:Been kicking around with an alt since 1.7. Had originally specced into dropsuits, but decided to switch vehicles for a change. One thing has stood out since I started running militia tanks. Surprise surprise, its rail guns. The problem isn't quite the amount of damage they do, but the range. At miltia and standard, the range is too great. As of now it functions like a sniper rifle, as opposed to a tactical rifle. Which would be more fair to AV infantry and other vehicles. Since I started thinking of this stuff, I have been noting different engagment ranges. This is what I have come up with.
Militia: 300m Standard: 345m Advanced: 390m Proto: 435m
The upside for infantry av (namely swarms) is it pushes rails into a more engagable range. It also somewhat mitigates redline rail lockdown.
The issue I have is that 5 militia tanks can chase a standard tank and, theoretically, the standard tank can keep those tanks within range for him/her but not within range for them. |
RedZer0 MK1
The Generals General Tso's Alliance
161
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Posted - 2014.01.23 23:55:00 -
[3] - Quote
Eko Sol wrote:RedZer0 MK1 wrote:Been kicking around with an alt since 1.7. Had originally specced into dropsuits, but decided to switch vehicles for a change. One thing has stood out since I started running militia tanks. Surprise surprise, its rail guns. The problem isn't quite the amount of damage they do, but the range. At miltia and standard, the range is too great. As of now it functions like a sniper rifle, as opposed to a tactical rifle. Which would be more fair to AV infantry and other vehicles. Since I started thinking of this stuff, I have been noting different engagment ranges. This is what I have come up with.
Militia: 300m Standard: 345m Advanced: 390m Proto: 435m
The upside for infantry av (namely swarms) is it pushes rails into a more engagable range. It also somewhat mitigates redline rail lockdown. The issue I have is that 5 militia tanks can chase a standard tank and, theoretically, the standard tank can keep those tanks within range for him/her but not within range for them.
You do know that's how most light weapons work right? The range of a proto rifle is higher than a standard one/militia. |
KING CHECKMATE
Ametat Security Amarr Empire
3982
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Posted - 2014.01.23 23:59:00 -
[4] - Quote
RedZer0 MK1 wrote:Been kicking around with an alt since 1.7. Had originally specced into dropsuits, but decided to switch vehicles for a change. One thing has stood out since I started running militia tanks. Surprise surprise, its rail guns. The problem isn't quite the amount of damage they do, but the range. At miltia and standard, the range is too great. As of now it functions like a sniper rifle, as opposed to a tactical rifle. Which would be more fair to AV infantry and other vehicles. Since I started thinking of this stuff, I have been noting different engagment ranges. This is what I have come up with.
Militia: 300m Standard: 345m Advanced: 390m Proto: 435m
The upside for infantry av (namely swarms) is it pushes rails into a more engagable range. It also somewhat mitigates redline rail lockdown.
RAIL TURRETS RULE! If it wasnt for them the skies would be full of Dropships and Every map would be full of Blaster Maddies preying on infantry...
LEAVE RAIL TURRETS ALONE.
Scr*w EZ moders...i mean tankers...
;)
GIVE ME A RESPEC CCP.
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Bradric Banewolf
D3M3NT3D M1NDZ The Umbra Combine
51
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Posted - 2014.01.24 00:07:00 -
[5] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:RedZer0 MK1 wrote:Been kicking around with an alt since 1.7. Had originally specced into dropsuits, but decided to switch vehicles for a change. One thing has stood out since I started running militia tanks. Surprise surprise, its rail guns. The problem isn't quite the amount of damage they do, but the range. At miltia and standard, the range is too great. As of now it functions like a sniper rifle, as opposed to a tactical rifle. Which would be more fair to AV infantry and other vehicles. Since I started thinking of this stuff, I have been noting different engagment ranges. This is what I have come up with.
Militia: 300m Standard: 345m Advanced: 390m Proto: 435m
The upside for infantry av (namely swarms) is it pushes rails into a more engagable range. It also somewhat mitigates redline rail lockdown. RAIL TURRETS RULE! If it wasnt for them the skies would be full of Dropships and Every map would be full of Blaster Maddies preying on infantry...LEAVE RAIL TURRETS ALONE. Scr*w EZ moders...i mean tankers... ;)
I hate to admit it, but this man is right?! When I'm swarming a blaster, and getting creamed nothing is better to see than a pair of rail tanks ::)! The tanks are OP as ever, and as messed up as it is, GO RAIL TANKS! Blaster tanking is dust514's easy mode equivalent. Top of the kd boards for knowing how to run to the redline?!
"Anybody order chaos?"
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Scheneighnay McBob
Learning Coalition College
3668
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Posted - 2014.01.24 00:24:00 -
[6] - Quote
Let's talk intra-VEHICLE balance rather than intra-HAV balance.
Small rails need a buff so HAVs are no longer the kings of vehicles. Let's see them with more range and more damage per shot. Also, a high-alpha low-DPS turret (Plasma cannon turret or artillery, I would guess) could make things more interesting. make LAVs the scouts of the vehicle world.
I am your scan error.
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RedZer0 MK1
The Generals General Tso's Alliance
161
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Posted - 2014.01.24 01:33:00 -
[7] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Let's talk intra-VEHICLE balance rather than intra-HAV balance.
Small rails need a buff so HAVs are no longer the kings of vehicles. Let's see them with more range and more damage per shot. Also, a high-alpha low-DPS turret (Plasma cannon turret or artillery, I would guess) could make things more interesting. make LAVs the scouts of the vehicle world.
I was going to address the dropship problem in a different post. Even though they are classified as 'small' vehicles, I feel that isn't really the case. They should be the 'medium' class of vehicles, with jet fighters as small and bombers as large. I was always under the assumption that MAVs would be the ground transport, and their counter part would be dropships. Of course a bump in 'weight' class for DS would mean medium modules that fall in between light/heavy we have now. Also a base increase of HP/CPU/PG, and best of all MEDIUM turrets! |
True Adamance
Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire
6135
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Posted - 2014.01.24 01:36:00 -
[8] - Quote
I simply think tanks need a resignation of role from the current model of anti infantry and have its role re purposed to be the top anti ground vehicle unit, with a heavy direct fire main battle cannon, and the ability to AoE/ skill shot infantry with slow RoF rounds.
Leave Anti infantry to MAV.
"My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity."
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RedZer0 MK1
The Generals General Tso's Alliance
161
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Posted - 2014.01.24 01:45:00 -
[9] - Quote
I was just trying to talk about rail guns in relation to blasters and missiles. Not delve into the many layers of vehicle play. |
Patrick57
Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention
4218
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Posted - 2014.01.24 01:47:00 -
[10] - Quote
The range is far longer than 300 meters and everyone knows it.
Judge Radamanthus (pardon my spelling) even had pictures of Rail Tanks shooting him down at 500+ meters.
Winner of at least 11 King ThunderBolt hate videos :D
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True Adamance
Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire
6135
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Posted - 2014.01.24 01:53:00 -
[11] - Quote
RedZer0 MK1 wrote:I was just trying to talk about rail guns in relation to blasters and missiles. Not delve into the many layers of vehicle play.
That's a shallow answer then....
"My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity."
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Glitch116
Black Phoenix Mercenaries Legacy Rising
16
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Posted - 2014.01.24 01:55:00 -
[12] - Quote
RedZer0 MK1 wrote:I was just trying to talk about rail guns in relation to blasters and missiles. Not delve into the many layers of vehicle play.
you can't talk about balance between the turrets without going into the whole vehicle game play. the problems we are facing go much deeper and if we are ever going to get true balance then we must look at the whole picture. |
Foundation Seldon
Gespenster Kompanie
398
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Posted - 2014.01.24 02:02:00 -
[13] - Quote
Regarding the topic :
What needs to change is Large Railgun Damage first and foremost. They were buffed SUBSTANTIALLY from their Pre-1.7 state and now do (at least) 300 more damage per shot, have a higher rate of fire, and a lower heat gain from the normal variants of that build. They're just as effective at 600m out as they are from 50m and generally render Tank v. Tank to a sort of "Who's Railgun hit first (and if you're not using a Railgun you're dead)?" type of engagement.
From there you can start looking at tweaking their effective ranges.
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Let's talk intra-VEHICLE balance rather than intra-HAV balance.
Small rails need a buff so HAVs are no longer the kings of vehicles. Let's see them with more range and more damage per shot. Also, a high-alpha low-DPS turret (Plasma cannon turret or artillery, I would guess) could make things more interesting. make LAVs the scouts of the vehicle world.
As someone who uses Small Rails very frequently in the back of a LAV they do NOT need more base damage or longer range, those things are already absolute monsters at taking out Infantry when equipped on ground based vehicles. I've said it before but they act like a rapid fire, high damage tactical sniper rifle. Buffing the base damage will make them more broken than they already might actually be despite no one realizing it.
What MIGHT need to change is the removal of the multiplier that decreases the damage they're able to apply to vehicles, right now they can only do 70% of their damage against vehicles vs. the full 100% that Missiles are able to apply. But seriously, at this point they're pretty much the best anti-infantry turret you could fit on anything without wings.
Saga v. Methana Balance
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RedZer0 MK1
The Generals General Tso's Alliance
161
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Posted - 2014.01.24 02:08:00 -
[14] - Quote
If rail guns are reigned in, then drop ships can be fairly observed. That seems like a good place to start to me. You can't power up small turrets without throwing hav and lav out of sync. Hence the suggestion of moving dropships to medium vehicle class. We cant balance vehicles since we are missing an entire class of ground and air vehicles. A dropship move would at least give us a base of some sorts. It's like trying to balance suits when there is only scouts and heavies. |
Foundation Seldon
Gespenster Kompanie
398
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Posted - 2014.01.24 02:17:00 -
[15] - Quote
RedZer0 MK1 wrote:If rail guns are reigned in, then drop ships can be fairly observed. That seems like a good place to start to me. You can't power up small turrets without throwing hav and lav out of sync. Hence the suggestion of moving dropships to medium vehicle class. We cant balance vehicles since we are missing an entire class of ground and air vehicles. A dropship move would at least give us a base of some sorts. It's like trying to balance suits when there is only scouts and heavies.
?
Dropships are already considered Medium classed vehicles.
I seriously don't think that tweaking Small Turrets will in anyway significantly effect balance of HAVs or LAVs. Having played around with the numbers a bit myself, the best AV small turret is most certainly the Missile turret as it's the only small turret type that does 100% of its damage against vehicles while also maintaining a high damage per shot. Buffing the Small Railgun in the way I listed (removing the vehicle modifier) would only put it just under the Small Missile in terms of effectiveness against other vehicles, even then the Missile is out damaging it until the Railgun can land something like 6-7 shots, and by that point it's overheating.
Saga v. Methana Balance
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Aizen Intiki
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
739
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Posted - 2014.01.24 03:17:00 -
[16] - Quote
1: Blaster HAV's are fine. Stop standing in the open. And if you want to cross open area, get in a vehicle, or be sneaky.
2: Rails are OP Damage wise. They need a ROF decrease, and they need their damage slightly reduced. also, the damage mods also needs nerfing
3: a Weapon lock needs to be placed on the redline
Fixed.
"Hello, world!" lol, sounds like something a whore lover would say
Alt of the great Godin
I like chocolate ^___^
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Aizen Intiki
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
739
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Posted - 2014.01.24 03:18:00 -
[17] - Quote
RedZer0 MK1 wrote:If rail guns are reigned in, then drop ships can be fairly observed. That seems like a good place to start to me. You can't power up small turrets without throwing hav and lav out of sync. Hence the suggestion of moving dropships to medium vehicle class. We cant balance vehicles since we are missing an entire class of ground and air vehicles. A dropship move would at least give us a base of some sorts. It's like trying to balance suits when there is only scouts and heavies.
DS"s are medium vehicles.
"Hello, world!" lol, sounds like something a whore lover would say
Alt of the great Godin
I like chocolate ^___^
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