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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1644
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Posted - 2014.01.23 08:59:00 -
[61] - Quote
Athena Sentinel wrote:Justin Tymes wrote:Athena Sentinel wrote:Reav Hannari wrote:Athena Sentinel wrote:
What should others carry in there equipment slot then? 2 logi means you just lost 1/3 of your over all stopping power.
A Assault with long range weapons can carry reps and follow heavies for greater effect. Skill is key unlike the other option.
I can tell a lot of people here don't play PC lol - they have not seen skilled players it seems.
Funny. I thought Logistics could carry weapons as well. Funny why do they go negative kdr topping the charts... If they have a weapon why do they suck at using it? Maybe they're too busy actually Repping, reviving, dropping Uplinks/Hives, Scanning, and cover-firing getting Assist Kills to actually care about KDR? So we loss the Ambush and you top the charts with 1-10 and feel like a hero.
Or you know you win the ambush despite having 180 deaths in a 80 clone ambush.
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men.
738
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Posted - 2014.01.23 09:03:00 -
[62] - Quote
While a squad of assaults planning equipment could work, you get a lot more bang with six logis planning their 18 combined equipment slots. Redundancy is your friend.
And why is there so much hate towards "slayer" logis? I logi and slay, maintain a highly positive KDR, and do everything except revive/repair - uplinks, hives, scanner, REs. I can and do switch to triage logi if the squad needs it, but reviving/repairing is far less difficult than killing :) |
LT SHANKS
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
1453
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Posted - 2014.01.23 09:04:00 -
[63] - Quote
Not only is OP against Logis, but it can be inferred that he/she is also against Heavies: seeing as they have no equipment slots.
In that respect, I'll assume OP's ideal squad would look something like this:
Proto Scout - Uplinks Proto Assault - Scanner Proto Assault - Injectors Proto Assault - Injectors Proto Assault - Hives Proto Assault - Hives
This setup would probably net the best results. Two injectors and hives seem necessary. Running one of each is suicide for the squad. The main form of offense would be a direct assault with the addition of some flanking.
Now, let's take a look at a squad with a Logi and a Heavy.
Proto Logi - Rep Tool, Injectors, Hives, Uplinks Proto Heavy - N/A Proto Scout - Remote Explosives Proto Assault - Scanner Proto Assault -Hives Proto Assault - Injector
In my opinion, one Proto Heavy on point defense with a logi backing him/her is more valuable than two extra Proto Assaults. In its optimal range, and within CQ, a Heavy being actively repped has the potential to negate any advancements made by the opposing team whilst still having the Logi as a secondary means of offensive backup.
A Proto Scout with REs is more valuable than one running Proto Uplinks as the lower CPU/PG costs enable a better and more optimized fitting. This setup would also enable the scout to function as AV and point defense while still prioritizing flanking as a means of attack.
A Proto Logi with a Rep tool is far more valuable than any number of Proto Assaults using Triage Hives as hives are susceptible to destruction via grenades, weapons, and orbitals. Accompanying the Logi are two Assaults who are also capable of reviving and supplying ammo.
If I had to choose one squad to join, I'd join the latter. The addition of one Logi would equate to more overall WP gain, thus effectively creating more chances to use orbital strikes. |
Broonfondle Majikthies
Dogs of War Gaming Zero-Day
766
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Posted - 2014.01.23 10:06:00 -
[64] - Quote
If they're topping the charts then they are doing more to earn orbitals in pubs Even if not in pubs their equipment is being used- therefore what they did contributes to the game. After all just lobbing a hive down in a random location nets 12 pts. A link in a bad place will only net 75pts if your lucky. So their equipment is consistently useful.
"...where Bylothgar the Ill-postured was made King of the People With No Name But Decent Footwear"
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pagl1u M
The Rainbow Effect
251
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Posted - 2014.01.23 10:57:00 -
[65] - Quote
Ok, Atena back in the days I used to think like you. I didnt think logis were useless but I used to think: you suck at shooting? Be a logi. Are You a logi? So you suck at shooting. I used to think: Hey, I m a killer, I m better than everyone else. Now I m a Dedicated Logibro and I still have a good kdr. Why? Because I started thinking that a logi can help a team better than everyone else. I started thinking that I could kill quite good even without those dmg modifier and to help my team I could do something different. You are implying, when you say that you dont need a logi, that all logis are idiots and all assaults are killers. Ddo you want to know how I play a lot of matches? I take my six kin repairer (the one that repair 2 mates) and follow two assaults that are with me. They kill everyone because they are good and because I m helping them. If They die I go on, kill who is there and then rivive them. If They need ammo I have them, I scan thei targets to help them, if I think it s better to shoot I can do it too. While I do all this things they just have to brings a compact hive or something else that takes low pg and cpu and they can fit better modules and weapon. In your team everyone have to brings good equipment and so they have to give up something else. |
Blaze Ashra
DROID EXILES General Tso's Alliance
142
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Posted - 2014.01.23 11:28:00 -
[66] - Quote
Lol good luck killing the reppers. You best hope they're mini or caldari logies using those cores.
P.S. Go hide in your tank some more.
ADS Pilot/Amarr Loyalist/Logi/WP Whore
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Venerable Phage
Red Shirts Away Team
2
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Posted - 2014.01.23 12:00:00 -
[67] - Quote
Combined arms wins the day.
Logi's improve battlefield mobility, and defense.
I also don't understand this quip about them having less firepower. Sure most of them don't carry a sidearm, but last time I played I didn't see suits firing two weapons at once.
I play mainly a shotgun scout with REs. My opening move is either a logi hacker (links, REs) or an AR Scout with ADV links.
I have multiple logi outfits for different scenarios. Double REs, or links or hives. A logibro lite with Repper.
I dabble with other suits to figure out there strengths and weakneses. Really enjoy the scout class. But I can maintain control of an area by using a logi suit to prep it and then a scout suit to stealth around it.
I play objective, tactical thinking games. Sounds like the OP is stuck in Ambush mode. Just run, point kill, drool. |
Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
3845
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Posted - 2014.01.23 12:25:00 -
[68] - Quote
Athena Sentinel wrote: Does your squad want more isk, WP shared? Does your squad want to compromise a team player for something you can all do?
What else will your squad carry for equipment. Most likely they already drop a lot of the same things your logi wasted squad spot does. They just need teamwork and leadership to work those together.
I understand. It is not easy - it requires skill - Why are all the logi players running away... Oh skill and not easy scared them out LOL
A good logi can make more WP and ISK than your entire squad.
Wasted squad spot? Your the one trying to waste 4-6 spots to have the efficiency of 1 person in a Logistics suit.
When you spend 14mil SP maxing out your equipment to be as effecient for the team as possible, have to deal with idoit blueberries wasting your 'services'; and have risk your life trying to save people in the middle of a firefight, then you can go ranting and crying about how a Logi doing their job is more rewarding than a mindless AR scrub killing things.
Point on this doll to where the logi touched you. Admittance of the problem is the first step to recovery.
Next On To-Do List:
Particle Cannons
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Rei Shepard
The Rainbow Effect
1490
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Posted - 2014.01.23 12:32:00 -
[69] - Quote
Athena Sentinel wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:Funny how it takes you a whole squad to do what 2 logis can do, with 4 others besides.
Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face. What should others carry in there equipment slot then? 2 logi means you just lost 1/3 of your over all stopping power. A Assault with long range weapons can carry reps and follow heavies for greater effect. Skill is key unlike the other option. I can tell a lot of people here don't play PC lol - they have not seen skilled players it seems.
Last time i checked, running a Logistics suit gives the wearer no unsurmountable gap in performance over running an assault suit, it only gives them more power.
In PC, even the players Grandmothers run Logistics suits, its not about maximising your squad setup with who carries this or that, its all about maximizing each player so the gaps overlap and works better together.
Having multiple people carry multiple caches of the same equipment is better then having the one guy with the needle die...and all belly up goes your squad, because he was the centerpoint of reviving.
Though having said that, most of the Pro players don't need a squad to do what needs to be done, if you absolutely need a min-maxed out squad to perform well, you might not be that good.
Winner of the EU Squad Cup
"Go Go Power Rangers!"
"Accuracy"
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Jakar Umbra
Altyr Initiative
478
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Posted - 2014.01.23 12:48:00 -
[70] - Quote
As a Logi, I took the time to read this entire thread and have to say I am beyond amused. I'm tempted to elaborate on the flaws in your design, such as time management, efficiency (or lack there of) and just sheer stupidity but everyone else has already done that. Personally I just ask that my assaults carry injectors and scanners, so that I can focus on reviving, repping and restoring ammo.
With that said, good luck to you. Hope your nanite injector guy doesn't die.
Author of Umbra's Short Stories. Last story posted 01/21/2014.
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Lorhak Gannarsein
1307
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Posted - 2014.01.23 12:52:00 -
[71] - Quote
My logi has a rack of proto equips and double damage mods on a proto gun.
Your argument is invalid.
Happily printing ISK with permahardeners and MLT blasters.
Just let me get a couple mil more before nerf, CCP!
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50LD13R
Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising
13
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Posted - 2014.01.23 13:10:00 -
[72] - Quote
Athena Sentinel wrote:Justin Tymes wrote:Athena Sentinel wrote:So we loss the Ambush and you top the charts with 1-10 and feel like a hero. If the Logi topped leader board, it's not the Logis fault for losing, it's the Assault and Heavy's fault for being bad at their job. You don't see this is because baddies and players with no skill play logi because its easy and makes them feel uber. That is why it needs fixing. I know some skilled logi but they are few and far between. You die 10 times in the scenario above and still had an excuse to be logi /props to you sir. You were not only 1/5 the total clone lose you most lily farmed spawn points droping them in bad places causing spawn deaths. So I am hearing logi say we are the reason you win and you are the reason you lose. Logi is so important but its not logis fault if the team loses. Which means they are not as important as the other classes who are winning the match for them. Sir, your logic is dizzying. It's interesting though to see you go back and forth "logis are unskilled easy mode players" then "there are skilled logis, I'm just saying anyone else can do the job". At least have the courage of your convictions. I honestly think less of myself now for justifying your divisive and poorly thought out rant with a reply. Good day! |
m twiggz
Pradox One Proficiency V.
261
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Posted - 2014.01.23 13:15:00 -
[73] - Quote
Athena Sentinel wrote:1. Your suit can carry it to. Like most do anyway carry what you need most. Do not rely on someone else. - Logi CPU/PG allow noobs and baddies to fit what ever they want without having to understand much about proper fitting. It may take a bit more time to fit a good suit (not logi) with equipment. But there is SD you can always switch to full combat.
2. No logi suits in my squad. Get together with 3-6 others and plan it out. Assault carry Nano, Scout carry spawn point. Each carry a needed piece of equipment for the group. You will eliminate the need for a logi and increase the over all armor/shields and damage your squad can put out.
3. It is rare to be nano injected without dieing instantly because they are going for the 60sp and sometimes even suicide to do it. If you are injected its always the noob injector and they armor rep for more sp or leave you half dead.
4. Remove the logi and share equipment drops = WAY more isk and WP for you because the logi did not suck them all up by farming spawn points.
5. They just think they are some kind gift to the battle field. Like we could not all do it LOL. They defend there place as toping the charts with 1-5. Meanwhile the skilled players role there eyes.
Good teamwork eliminates the need and role of LOGI. Share it out and bring more punch to the battle. Having a secondary job on the battlefield did not hurt any soldier. It promotes teamwork and helps keep the team together.
Pro Tip: Each member of your elite squad can make a copy suit with different equipment. Work a Supply Depot - drop your equipment and switch to your combat suits. I absolutely love running in squads like this. Assaults should ALWAYS be able to cover the role of a logi in a full assault squad. My alt is an Assault and I have two proto equipment I'll switch between to make up for whatever the other assault/logis aren't carrying. That equipment slot is there for a reason, I wish more assaults would use it.
Although I absolutely disagree with the statement of removing Logistic suits, as my main is a logi and is my favorite class to play. If these "skilled players" you speak of aren't at the top of the leader board they aren't very "skilled" now are they? |
Athena Sentinel
SOE Knights Templar
164
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Posted - 2014.01.23 23:00:00 -
[74] - Quote
m twiggz wrote:Athena Sentinel wrote:1. Your suit can carry it to. Like most do anyway carry what you need most. Do not rely on someone else. - Logi CPU/PG allow noobs and baddies to fit what ever they want without having to understand much about proper fitting. It may take a bit more time to fit a good suit (not logi) with equipment. But there is SD you can always switch to full combat.
2. No logi suits in my squad. Get together with 3-6 others and plan it out. Assault carry Nano, Scout carry spawn point. Each carry a needed piece of equipment for the group. You will eliminate the need for a logi and increase the over all armor/shields and damage your squad can put out.
3. It is rare to be nano injected without dieing instantly because they are going for the 60sp and sometimes even suicide to do it. If you are injected its always the noob injector and they armor rep for more sp or leave you half dead.
4. Remove the logi and share equipment drops = WAY more isk and WP for you because the logi did not suck them all up by farming spawn points.
5. They just think they are some kind gift to the battle field. Like we could not all do it LOL. They defend there place as toping the charts with 1-5. Meanwhile the skilled players role there eyes.
Good teamwork eliminates the need and role of LOGI. Share it out and bring more punch to the battle. Having a secondary job on the battlefield did not hurt any soldier. It promotes teamwork and helps keep the team together.
Pro Tip: Each member of your elite squad can make a copy suit with different equipment. Work a Supply Depot - drop your equipment and switch to your combat suits. I absolutely love running in squads like this. Assaults should ALWAYS be able to cover the role of a logi in a full assault squad. My alt is an Assault and I have two proto equipment I'll switch between to make up for whatever the other assault/logis aren't carrying. That equipment slot is there for a reason, I wish more assaults would use it. Although I absolutely disagree with the statement of removing Logistic suits, as my main is a logi and is my favorite class to play. If these "skilled players" you speak of aren't at the top of the leader board they aren't very "skilled" now are they?
110% agree
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Athena Sentinel
SOE Knights Templar
164
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Posted - 2014.01.23 23:01:00 -
[75] - Quote
Athena Sentinel wrote:m twiggz wrote:Athena Sentinel wrote:1. Your suit can carry it to. Like most do anyway carry what you need most. Do not rely on someone else. - Logi CPU/PG allow noobs and baddies to fit what ever they want without having to understand much about proper fitting. It may take a bit more time to fit a good suit (not logi) with equipment. But there is SD you can always switch to full combat.
2. No logi suits in my squad. Get together with 3-6 others and plan it out. Assault carry Nano, Scout carry spawn point. Each carry a needed piece of equipment for the group. You will eliminate the need for a logi and increase the over all armor/shields and damage your squad can put out.
3. It is rare to be nano injected without dieing instantly because they are going for the 60sp and sometimes even suicide to do it. If you are injected its always the noob injector and they armor rep for more sp or leave you half dead.
4. Remove the logi and share equipment drops = WAY more isk and WP for you because the logi did not suck them all up by farming spawn points.
5. They just think they are some kind gift to the battle field. Like we could not all do it LOL. They defend there place as toping the charts with 1-5. Meanwhile the skilled players role there eyes.
Good teamwork eliminates the need and role of LOGI. Share it out and bring more punch to the battle. Having a secondary job on the battlefield did not hurt any soldier. It promotes teamwork and helps keep the team together.
Pro Tip: Each member of your elite squad can make a copy suit with different equipment. Work a Supply Depot - drop your equipment and switch to your combat suits. I absolutely love running in squads like this. Assaults should ALWAYS be able to cover the role of a logi in a full assault squad. My alt is an Assault and I have two proto equipment I'll switch between to make up for whatever the other assault/logis aren't carrying. That equipment slot is there for a reason, I wish more assaults would use it. Although I absolutely disagree with the statement of removing Logistic suits, as my main is a logi and is my favorite class to play. If these "skilled players" you speak of aren't at the top of the leader board they aren't very "skilled" now are they? 110% agree -I know there is skill in active equipment. Its the spawn farmers I am targeting as having no skill.
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Teilka Darkmist
55
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Posted - 2014.01.23 23:10:00 -
[76] - Quote
Athena Sentinel wrote:m twiggz wrote:Athena Sentinel wrote: *Snipped to make the fail easier to see*
Good teamwork eliminates the need and role of LOGI. Share it out and bring more punch to the battle. Having a secondary job on the battlefield did not hurt any soldier. It promotes teamwork and helps keep the team together.
*Snipped to make the fail easier to see*
*Snipped to make the fail easier to see* Although I absolutely disagree with the statement of removing Logistic suits, as my main is a logi and is my favorite class to play. If these "skilled players" you speak of aren't at the top of the leader board they aren't very "skilled" now are they? 110% agree
So you 110% agree that logi suits shouldn't be removed whilst also talking about eliminating the need and role of logi suits......
When I play as a sniper, I'm more likely to be nearer to the opponents redline than my own.
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Athena Sentinel
SOE Knights Templar
164
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Posted - 2014.01.23 23:16:00 -
[77] - Quote
Teilka Darkmist wrote:Athena Sentinel wrote:m twiggz wrote:Athena Sentinel wrote: *Snipped to make the fail easier to see*
Good teamwork eliminates the need and role of LOGI. Share it out and bring more punch to the battle. Having a secondary job on the battlefield did not hurt any soldier. It promotes teamwork and helps keep the team together.
*Snipped to make the fail easier to see*
*Snipped to make the fail easier to see* Although I absolutely disagree with the statement of removing Logistic suits, as my main is a logi and is my favorite class to play. If these "skilled players" you speak of aren't at the top of the leader board they aren't very "skilled" now are they? 110% agree So you 110% agree that logi suits shouldn't be removed whilst also talking about eliminating the need and role of logi suits......
As we already mentioned - there is changing coming shortly to eliminate the issues anyway. |
Tesfa Alem
Death by Disassociation Legacy Rising
77
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Posted - 2014.01.23 23:35:00 -
[78] - Quote
Athena Sentinel wrote:Reav Hannari wrote:Athena Sentinel wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:Funny how it takes you a whole squad to do what 2 logis can do, with 4 others besides.
Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face. What should others carry in there equipment slot then? 2 logi means you just lost 1/3 of your over all stopping power. A Assault with long range weapons can carry reps and follow heavies for greater effect. Skill is key unlike the other option. I can tell a lot of people here don't play PC lol - they have not seen skilled players it seems. Funny. I thought Logistics could carry weapons as well. Funny why do they go negative kdr topping the charts... If they have a weapon why do they suck at using it?
So the slayer logi is merely a mythical beast
Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
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Teilka Darkmist
56
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Posted - 2014.01.23 23:41:00 -
[79] - Quote
Athena Sentinel wrote:Teilka Darkmist wrote:Athena Sentinel wrote:m twiggz wrote:Athena Sentinel wrote: *Snipped to make the fail easier to see*
Good teamwork eliminates the need and role of LOGI. Share it out and bring more punch to the battle. Having a secondary job on the battlefield did not hurt any soldier. It promotes teamwork and helps keep the team together.
*Snipped to make the fail easier to see*
*Snipped to make the fail easier to see* Although I absolutely disagree with the statement of removing Logistic suits, as my main is a logi and is my favorite class to play. If these "skilled players" you speak of aren't at the top of the leader board they aren't very "skilled" now are they? 110% agree So you 110% agree that logi suits shouldn't be removed whilst also talking about eliminating the need and role of logi suits...... As we already mentioned - there is changing coming shortly to eliminate the issues anyway.
What does that have to do with you contradicting yourself less than 20 hours after your original post? Has your opinion changed that much in so short a time?
When I play as a sniper, I'm more likely to be nearer to the opponents redline than my own.
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JARREL THOMAS
Dead Man's Game
55
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Posted - 2014.01.24 03:17:00 -
[80] - Quote
Lonewolf Heavy wrote:Anyone who sticks as a logi if they take their light weapons away, i respect greatly because you guys are the logi we deserve, not those logi slayer pricks who dont rep my ass when im getting lit up from every side as a heavy I'm glad that I could help.
Caldari Loyalist
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Fire of Prometheus
DUST University Ivy League
3130
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Posted - 2014.01.24 03:19:00 -
[81] - Quote
I see Athena hasn't changed a bit over his/her absence
Commando 6 // A.R.C Commander // D-Uni instructor
A Balac's and a Thale's.....What's on your commando?
Forum warrior 3
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Athena Sentinel
SOE Knights Templar
166
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Posted - 2014.01.24 05:20:00 -
[82] - Quote
Fire of Prometheus wrote:I see Athena hasn't changed a bit over his/her absence
I have fans <3
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Athena Sentinel
SOE Knights Templar
166
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Posted - 2014.01.24 05:21:00 -
[83] - Quote
Tesfa Alem wrote:Athena Sentinel wrote:Reav Hannari wrote:Athena Sentinel wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:Funny how it takes you a whole squad to do what 2 logis can do, with 4 others besides.
Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face. What should others carry in there equipment slot then? 2 logi means you just lost 1/3 of your over all stopping power. A Assault with long range weapons can carry reps and follow heavies for greater effect. Skill is key unlike the other option. I can tell a lot of people here don't play PC lol - they have not seen skilled players it seems. Funny. I thought Logistics could carry weapons as well. Funny why do they go negative kdr topping the charts... If they have a weapon why do they suck at using it? So the slayer logi is merely a mythical beast
very very soon lol if you have not been keeping track
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el OPERATOR
Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation
57
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Posted - 2014.01.24 06:10:00 -
[84] - Quote
I...disagree with the OP. Sort of. What you're saying, essentially, is true IMO. The role of a Logi could be spread out amongst a squad. But, I also agree with those who have posted on here that to spread the gear and attention that a dedicated Logi has would actually be detrimental to the performance of the squad. It really does strike me as being something that "looks better on paper", especially, as others have pointed out, once the slayers start dropping their damage mods/extra shield or armor plates/or their Duvolles and Proto RR to fit anything besides militia equipment.
That having been said though, I, unlike most respondents here, would actually be interested in squadding with you in this sort of configuration. What you are describing is a cohesive, communicating strike squad. Exactly the type of squad I enjoy. And so you know, I've been using a repper in the equipment slot of my STARTER [MEDIC] suit ever since open beta ended.
Open-Beta Vet.
NPC Corp Independent Contractor.
Drunk Night Tree Burner.
This is my Main and Original.
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hirise
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
0
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Posted - 2014.01.24 06:13:00 -
[85] - Quote
Tell me. are you going to be the one skilling in to the core focused repair tool to heal my 1045 armor as a heavy?
militia rail gun? i'll take it in the face and still be alive (1700 ehp takes me to 0 ehp though) just love that fealing
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