DUST Search - Announcement:Feedback Request: Equipment Stats!

Medic 1879 wrote:

XxGhazbaranxX wrote:

Doshneil Antaro wrote:

These changes make using your equipment take thought and skill. If any of you other logis need some classes to learn how to do your job, send me an in game message.

How do these changes make having the equipment take thought and skill. It's the exact same mechanic just nerfed to hell.

That uplink you put back there, it will die due to less HP and an exagerated spawn time. That nano for your team wont supply that heavy plus your assault guys, That scanner will only let you know relative position for a shorter period of time(360 had to go though), that repair tool will only half rep your heavy before another enemy come around the corner

For a character that is supposed to be the best because he worked his face off to get that proto equipment, all of the sudden you now have to contend with equipment that is as good as basic or advance from what you are using now.

I don't know if you remember what it feels like for your team to lose a point because they had to wait 10 seconds each to get back into the battle but I do. The only reason I got betterp uplinks was for faster spawns. The only reason I got ishukone gauged nanos was so I would not run out of nanohives for my team and that each one fully gave them all they needed. The only reason I specced into better repairers was so I could support a friend while he was in a firefight.

I dont know what sort of logi you say you are but your post tells otherwise.

To be fair to both sides of the argument though we haven't seen it all yet the suit bonus's could have changed, equipment skills could give bonus's, nanite cost of things could have decreased etc... so saying this has killed true logi's is a bit of an over exaggeration it has made it more difficult yes but until we know all of the facts it could work out that we are around about as effective at things as we are now but better at one thing by far. True logi's will still be around we will just have to work for it more.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 5 post(s)
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 895	Posted - 2014.01.22 07:52:00 - [1] - Quote I have no words at the moment. A blanket nerf to all equipment.... I have to say I would actually have liked this if CCP was going to put all the support skills for each equipment in the same way an assault rifle has skills to make it better. MY LOGI HEART IS BROKEN. MY ANGER TURNS TO ALL THOSE SLAYER LOGI'S. I dont Blame CCP. This is what the community deserves but my heart will not heal until logi's get the support skills for each piece of equipment they deserve. The suits do not even get the equipment up to 1.7 standards.... I'm sorry CCP if this looks like a rant but I am speechless... Plasma Cannon Advocate For every niche there is a Rifle
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 898	Posted - 2014.01.22 08:11:00 - [2] - Quote Mregomies wrote: ... now I have to rethink my logi play... I'll still be caldari all the way but my job is to rep and resupply. Repper is nerfed... uplinks nerfed... I must go and check caldari logistic bonus if there is some relief to my sadness A reall logi who know how he will be affected. There are too few of us. It's sad that only the true logis will feel the bite of this. Those logi wannabes will be in here mostly talking about the cloak or saying love the great work. But us... we know and we feel it to our gaming core. Plasma Cannon Advocate For every niche there is a Rifle
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 899	Posted - 2014.01.22 08:42:00 - [3] - Quote Mregomies wrote: XxGhazbaranxX wrote: Mregomies wrote: ... now I have to rethink my logi play... I'll still be caldari all the way but my job is to rep and resupply. Repper is nerfed... uplinks nerfed... I must go and check caldari logistic bonus if there is some relief to my sadness A reall logi who know how he will be affected. There are too few of us. It's sad that only the true logis will feel the bite of this. Those logi wannabes will be in here mostly talking about the cloak or saying love the great work. But us... we know and we feel it to our gaming core. After some investigation I'll use hive+hive(R)+Lai Dai repper as my favorite fit. I hope those +(something)%/level and PCU/PG reduce for nanohive equipment will come. There will be more racial logis in field. They took our natural repair, they nerfed our equipment, probably will nerf our layouts.... There is no light at the end of this tunnel, just hope that this is not final Plasma Cannon Advocate For every niche there is a Rifle
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 899	Posted - 2014.01.22 08:45:00 - [4] - Quote jordy mack wrote: PLEASE! Give me a side arm only, take my grenade, all my high slots... But don't hurt my rep tools, they never hurt you! Another Logi who know what he is talking about. CCP we must be heard. The TRUE LOG's dont care for anything else. We love our equipment with a ferver that no wannabe logi will ever show. You are doing us a big disservice. our equipment should not be nerfed just because of the slayer logi wannabe that made everyone hate the class Plasma Cannon Advocate For every niche there is a Rifle
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 899	Posted - 2014.01.22 08:48:00 - [5] - Quote Ronan Elsword wrote: All my equipment is being nerfed... I'll be ok with this if they add in the skill bonus's that many people are suggesting. going to happen. Same if this nerf comes without the supporting skilltree for each equipment then it will be the worst class nerf to date, almost as bad as the scout speed nerf. Plasma Cannon Advocate For every niche there is a Rifle
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 899	Posted - 2014.01.22 09:06:00 - [6] - Quote HREpair tools now OMG Max distance is the same as the std fluc core focused repair rate will be less than it is now andeven now it has troube keeping up. Just with that people will be looking to take out their weapon and kill with their logi suit because the repair tool can't keep up which was the original problem. It's more beneficial to shoot that to repair. If it's kept this way; Logi's will have to turn to slaying because shooting people is more effective at keeping people alive than actually repping them. Plasma Cannon Advocate For every niche there is a Rifle
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 900	Posted - 2014.01.22 09:15:00 - [7] - Quote Doshneil Antaro wrote: So far Im liking what Im seeing with the equipment changes. These changes will go a long way to the equipment spam nonsense that is going on. Placing equipment (beyond supply depots) will have to take thought, which in turn makes it more tacticaly used.. A few more tweeks are still need to make the support logi more thoughtful about how he needs to handle his buisness are needed IMO: 1. Total placed equipment per player needs to be capped. 2. Placed equipment should disapear after some time has passed. 2 minutes on most sounds about right. 3. The nono injecter should have only x amount of uses per life. 4. The repair tool should be tied to the logis stamina bar. When your out of stamina, your reps stop. This will be especially needed with the changes to heavies being even bigger brutes than ever before. It is already takes alot of work and skill to take down a decent tag team, but after the changes it is going to be fruitless. I think you have no idea what being a logi is. The equipment spam will happen whether the equipment is crap or not simply because its spam. Your logic is flawed because worse equipment will requires more spam to make up for it. Only true logi's do real placement and if you ever knew a real logi in your whole dust career you would have never posted something so poorly thought out. Posts like these let me know that in DUST a true logi is a rare animal indeed Plasma Cannon Advocate For every niche there is a Rifle
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 900	Posted - 2014.01.22 09:22:00 - [8] - Quote Bendtner92 wrote: These equipment changes are all good. Good job on this. I honestly want to know what your thinking when you say the equipment changes are good.... seriously HOW? Plasma Cannon Advocate They killed the TRUE LOGI. R.I.P
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 900	Posted - 2014.01.22 09:26:00 - [9] - Quote Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: So basically equipment has been dropped by the amount the respective logi suit boosts in order to influence use of a certain suit for certain roles. not suprising really seeing as its same in eve with stuff. still wont really stop much spamming though Nope. If you do the mathe. The equipment will never be at the elevel they where at pre nerf. Even with the logi suit bonuses, us logis are stuck with nerfed equipment no matter what suit it's on. Plasma Cannon Advocate They killed the TRUE LOGI. R.I.P
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 900	Posted - 2014.01.22 09:31:00 - [10] - Quote Otrera Goddess wrote: Why CCP would you increase the spawn time for uplinks? How is this a good thing? Explain the reasoning behind it because it already takes to long to spawn in and rejoin the fight. All I am seeing is a lot of nerfing going on here with equipment!!!! 15 second spawn time on basic ones means that your better off spawning at the objective.. Even at ADV levels you are just better off using a CRU or objective. Hell depending on the game type and situation you'll get there fatser spawning at a far away point and taking those five extra seconds to call in an LAV Plasma Cannon Advocate They killed the TRUE LOGI. R.I.P

XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 900	Posted - 2014.01.22 09:44:00 - [11] - Quote Bendtner92 wrote: XxGhazbaranxX wrote: Bendtner92 wrote: These equipment changes are all good. Good job on this. I honestly want to know what your thinking when you say the equipment changes are good.... seriously HOW? Scanners: Perfect, they needed longer cooldowns to encourage more tactical use instead of spamming. If they also made 360 scans impossible it's even better. Uplinks: Perfect. They needed higher spawn times. There should be quite a disadvantage to dying (other than just ISK loss) and not being able to respawn after 3 seconds is good. Uplinks shouldn't have a lower spawntime than CRUs either. Nanohives: I think these are pretty good too, if you aren't spamming nades you'll still have plenty of ammo resupply from them. I can see that the Mass Driver will suffer a little from this though, but I also think MDs need a little more ammo in the first place. Repair Tools: I'm not really worried about these changes. The repair tools are still quite good. If you want range use the Lai Dai. If not then another one. Scanner: I agree with you Uplinks: I'll just use a cru and shave off a couple of seconds from the spawn link. Nerfing this on the basis of dying should have a bigger disadvantage I could arguie they need to nerf all weapon because killing should take more work. We can go to an fro on this matter. Nanohive: Yes and no. Grenades should not even be resupplied by hives IMO. While being a sole logi in a squad nanite clusters are everything. It's the difference from being able to fully resuply the team before an assault or going in with everyone half ammo. This mechanic had no real threat. It could have been better balanced by augmenting the amount of vclusters a grenade uses because that is the problem mechanic not the nanohive. Repair tool: Only true logi's know the significance of having the repping power we have now. Even at 1.7 jkeeping someone alive with a rep tool is hard work. nerfing this amount will only bring back the mentally that it is better to keep people alive by using your gunn than using your repper. it only helps to substantiate the slayer logi trade and makes the true logi's deviate from the correct ways of the logi. A gun should not be better at keeping someone alive than a repair tool Overall: none of the nerfed thing in question, except for the scanner where creating a major problems with the core mechanics of the game. this nerf has been done without the consideration of truely dedicated logi's that realy heavily on equipment for their play styles and keeping their team stocked, repped, informed and on point (uplinks). Equipment spam: This in no way reduces equipment spam. The reduction in overall efficiency will only aggravate the problem by obligating logi's to spa their equipment to get similar result to those once had. In essence this nerf of all equipment will only serve to augment the problem. Even with scanners; now instead of one person scanning every now and then you will have even more people scanning more frequently to get the correcty positions of everyone in the fields. So once you are caught, all the scanns are coming your way till you are dead. Plasma Cannon Advocate They killed the TRUE LOGI. R.I.P
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 900	Posted - 2014.01.22 09:47:00 - [12] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: XxGhazbaranxX wrote: I have no words at the moment. A blanket nerf to all equipment.... I have to say I would actually have liked this if CCP was going to put all the support skills for each equipment in the same way an assault rifle has skills to make it better. MY LOGI HEART IS BROKEN. MY ANGER TURNS TO ALL THOSE SLAYER LOGI'S. I dont Blame CCP. This is what the community deserves but my heart will not heal until logi's get the support skills for each piece of equipment they deserve. The suits do not even get the equipment up to 1.7 standards.... I'm sorry CCP if this looks like a rant but I am speechless... I would have given up my light weapon slot just so my equipment wouldn't get nerfed I was expecting this with the announced Logi suit skill bonuses. What were you expecting? i was expectin bonuses for different suits. it only makes sense to give each race an affinity to their technology but that equipment nerf is just too much of a blow to the real logi's in the game. A real logi will always tell you he would preffer to have his light slot changed to a sidearem instead of this painfull nerf. Plasma Cannon Advocate They killed the TRUE LOGI. R.I.P
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 900	Posted - 2014.01.22 09:53:00 - [13] - Quote Meee One wrote: I run gallente logi with adv injector,adv nanos,proto rep tool. I'm screwed when it comes to giving extended support with these changes.... Prices should be reduced to compensate. Skill tree please. I completely agree although, being outraged by the equipment nerf, I never gave much thought to my gallente suit... now i'm even more let down if that's possible. Takes the pin out of a core locust grenade and waits for the timer to end :P Plasma Cannon Advocate They killed the TRUE LOGI. R.I.P
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 901	Posted - 2014.01.22 10:06:00 - [14] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Mregomies wrote: ... now I have to rethink my logi play... I'll still be caldari all the way but my job is to rep and resupply. Repper is nerfed... uplinks nerfed... I must go and check caldari logistic bonus if there is some relief to my sadness I'm a tanker, and it seems none of you noticed the Logi bonuses. Come on, are we even playing the same game? Logi bonuses are for 1 type of equipment only and that equipment will still be less effective with full skills in 1.8 than in 1.7. On top of that the changes are on mechanics that are of no consecuence and have not created any trouble for the balance of the game except maybe in cases of equipment spam which is not solved by making equipment completely horrible. Plasma Cannon Advocate They killed the TRUE LOGI. R.I.P
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 902	Posted - 2014.01.22 10:11:00 - [15] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: XxGhazbaranxX wrote: Just with that people will be looking to take out their weapon and kill with their logi suit because the repair tool can't keep up which was the original problem. It's more beneficial to shoot that to repair. If it's kept this way; Logi's will have to turn to slaying because shooting people is more effective at keeping people alive than actually repping them. Which was the original problem with the repair tool and hence the buff So while someone is repped, they should be near invincible? If you put it this way, to have a person shooting and a person repping should equate to having two people fighting. In this situation you target the logi and ignore th assault character, then he will die after. The sum of the two should be at least as powerfull as if both where carrying a light weapon. As it stands the core focused repair tool does that and still leave the player vulnerable because It cannot keep up with the full damage. So there really was not reason to nerf it at all. With the minmatar logi it would have equated to about 218 reps per second. It would have made for a formidable oponent but still we have to take into consideration that the logistic character is still vulnerable to anything and is not himself being repped or posing a threat. When and if the nerf hits, it will be a lot more common for battle logi's to give you the full brunt of their weapons and not rep at all intensifying the whole slayer logi dilema. Plasma Cannon Advocate They killed the TRUE LOGI. R.I.P
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 903	Posted - 2014.01.22 10:19:00 - [16] - Quote Tech De Ra wrote: XxGhazbaranxX wrote: i was expectin bonuses for different suits. it only makes sense to give each race an affinity to their technology but that equipment nerf is just too much of a blow to the real logi's in the game. A real logi will always tell you he would preffer to have his light slot changed to a sidearem instead of this painfull nerf. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134173&find=unread Amarr Logistics Skill: Logistics Suit Bonus: 5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of equipment per level. Amarr Logistics Bonus: 10% reduction to drop uplink spawn time and +2 to max. spawn count per level. Gallente Logistics Skill: Logistics Suit Bonus: 5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of equipment per level. Gallente Logistics Bonus: +10% to active scanner visibility duration and +5% to active scanner precision per level. Minmatar Logistics Skill: Logistics Suit Bonus: 5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of equipment per level. Minmatar Logistics Bonus: +10% to repair tool range and 5% to repair amount per level. Caldari Logistics Skill: Logistics Suit Bonus: 5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of equipment per level. Caldari Logistics Bonus: +10% to nanohive max. nanites and +5% to supply rate and repair amount per level. I know the bonuses but these bonuses don't give that much of an edge for what we are losing. I'm not blindly posting without knowing what I am talking about. i am posting because know exactly what I am talking about. CCP stated that they are not going to do a carpet nerf on all weapons because that is not the way to balance the TTK. This is in escence the same thing. Nerfing all equipment because 1 suit will give bonuses to one equipment is not doing any good changes to the game. Making something we have better while losing something we already had. I for one am losing a lot in my gallente suit for a bonus to scanners. Their balance was anecesary one to be able to balance the scout suit. but apart from that there is no way that a suit would have made any other equipment powerfull beyond belief except the one it's specialized in. Other equipment used by the suit user would be exactly as normal as it is right now. Making equipment worse because you have suits that are going to augment their power is not a solution that will give any semblance of balance. No one is going to spec into the gallente suit just for the scanners. Even in the PC meta, uplinks and nanohive are king and thats all that matters. Scanner will still do their job and cloaked scouts wont be see if I'm not mistaken. The overall effect of the equipment nerf is that the spamm will increase and true logi's that depended on equipment to be able to do their job will decrese creating a surge of either more slayer logi's which inturn would augment that problem or less logis in general because that sp sink will not be worth the hassle. Plasma Cannon Advocate They killed the TRUE LOGI. R.I.P
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 905	Posted - 2014.01.22 10:30:00 - [17] - Quote Doshneil Antaro wrote: These changes make using your equipment take thought and skill. If any of you other logis need some classes to learn how to do your job, send me an in game message. How do these changes make having the equipment take thought and skill. It's the exact same mechanic just nerfed to hell. That uplink you put back there, it will die due to less HP and an exagerated spawn time. That nano for your team wont supply that heavy plus your assault guys, That scanner will only let you know relative position for a shorter period of time(360 had to go though), that repair tool will only half rep your heavy before another enemy come around the corner For a character that is supposed to be the best because he worked his face off to get that proto equipment, all of the sudden you now have to contend with equipment that is as good as basic or advance from what you are using now. I don't know if you remember what it feels like for your team to lose a point because they had to wait 10 seconds each to get back into the battle but I do. The only reason I got betterp uplinks was for faster spawns. The only reason I got ishukone gauged nanos was so I would not run out of nanohives for my team and that each one fully gave them all they needed. The only reason I specced into better repairers was so I could support a friend while he was in a firefight. I dont know what sort of logi you say you are but your post tells otherwise. Plasma Cannon Advocate They killed the TRUE LOGI. R.I.P
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 905	Posted - 2014.01.22 10:37:00 - [18] - Quote Doshneil Antaro wrote: XxGhazbaranxX wrote: think you have no idea what being a logi is. The equipment spam will happen whether the equipment is crap or not simply because its spam. Your logic is flawed because worse equipment will requires more spam to make up for it. Only true logi's do real placement and if you ever knew a real logi in your whole dust career you would have never posted something so poorly thought out. Posts like these let me know that in DUST a true logi is a rare animal indeed LOL, your cancer is entertaining. You think spamming equipment makes you a "true support logi"? Use your equipment as needed by yourself or your team is what a real logi do. I can not believe you mention to combat the changes put in place by CCP to fix equipment spam is to spam even more. Alll the changes I proposed are to weed out easy mode no skill equipment spam monkeys. These changes would do little to nothing to a real logi. I never said spamming equipment made me a true logi. I said that if CCP was trying to fix equipment spam this is not the way because it will encourage equipment spam. These changes in no way fix or where made to fix equipment spam. Like I posted before. Worse equipment will make people want to spam more to make up for it. Read my posts thoroughly before calling them cancer. You sure did not know what you where saying when you posted that response. Plasma Cannon Advocate They killed the TRUE LOGI. R.I.P
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 905	Posted - 2014.01.22 10:53:00 - [19] - Quote Medic 1879 wrote: XxGhazbaranxX wrote: Doshneil Antaro wrote: These changes make using your equipment take thought and skill. If any of you other logis need some classes to learn how to do your job, send me an in game message. How do these changes make having the equipment take thought and skill. It's the exact same mechanic just nerfed to hell. That uplink you put back there, it will die due to less HP and an exagerated spawn time. That nano for your team wont supply that heavy plus your assault guys, That scanner will only let you know relative position for a shorter period of time(360 had to go though), that repair tool will only half rep your heavy before another enemy come around the corner For a character that is supposed to be the best because he worked his face off to get that proto equipment, all of the sudden you now have to contend with equipment that is as good as basic or advance from what you are using now. I don't know if you remember what it feels like for your team to lose a point because they had to wait 10 seconds each to get back into the battle but I do. The only reason I got betterp uplinks was for faster spawns. The only reason I got ishukone gauged nanos was so I would not run out of nanohives for my team and that each one fully gave them all they needed. The only reason I specced into better repairers was so I could support a friend while he was in a firefight. I dont know what sort of logi you say you are but your post tells otherwise. To be fair to both sides of the argument though we haven't seen it all yet the suit bonus's could have changed, equipment skills could give bonus's, nanite cost of things could have decreased etc... so saying this has killed true logi's is a bit of an over exaggeration it has made it more difficult yes but until we know all of the facts it could work out that we are around about as effective at things as we are now but better at one thing by far. True logi's will still be around we will just have to work for it more. Maybe saying it killed the true log is an exaggeration or it will be another flaylock event where the logis will be few and far between. Apart from that maybe you are right but there was no actual reason for the changes if the equipment was already balanced. They would just get better with the appropriate suit so unless you had that suit, it's business as usual. People may say I'm exaggerating, QQing or whatever they want to say. But when I speak I speak with numbers and balance in mind. I thoroughly test what I talk about; even my videos reflect it. that's why you wont see me commenting on the cloak, only a scout knows how this will change their gameplay and it's overall effect. I as a logi and as a heavy know how these changes will affect the game. I don't feel the need to say anymore. Those who agree, agree. Those who dont wont agree anyways. I'll just let the game do what it will and see where it goes. Plasma Cannon Advocate
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 966	Posted - 2014.01.24 02:29:00 - [20] - Quote IR Scifi wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Dremel wp wrote: Can we get the repair tool skill to increase range per level? +1. Give something like this to all the equipment skills and the complaints about equipment nerf disappear instantly. Maybe not instantly but it'd go a damn long ways towards eliminating it. If I got proficiency skill for every equipment, at least 3 skills per equipment I would not care about the nerf. Plasma Cannon Advocate

XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 970	Posted - 2014.01.24 10:29:00 - [21] - Quote Gemini Reynolds wrote: Denn Maell wrote: I know, right. If they wanted to stop Equipment spam, wouldn't the appropriate way be that if you die the equipment dies with you? Or if you swapped out at a supply depot? It's not about EQ spam, that can still happen. It's about having equipment that is effective without a logi, no matter what level it is. If it's effective, then what's it matter if you throw it on (X-non-logi) suit? After the change, if you want to get the most out of the equipment, now you need a logi. Not even because equipment wont even be as good as it is now on a fully specced logi in the appropriate suit. Anyways equipment in itself was not in any way unbalanced. except the scanner. I have 4 equipment slots. It's not worth having a 235k suit for all proto equipment if only one will be any good. The only reason I didnt care if they put suit bonuses was because I though equipment would stay the same. So all logi can use good equipment at proto level and make the equipment that their suit is meant for extraordinary. Now it's all just nerfed to hell.... If it's about equipment being only useful on a logi why don't they nerf all light weaponry by 10% because all assault suits are getting a 2% rate of fire bonus per level??? In all honesty I would have loved for CCP to have taken my light weapon and left me only with a side arm... With these new numbers slayer logi's will be in full swing. It's all about fitting options for the slayer logi's. Most of them only carry 1 or 2 equipment on them and they are usually triage hives Plasma Cannon Advocate