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Bojo The Mighty
L.O.T.I.S.
2852
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Posted - 2014.01.21 21:37:00 -
[1] - Quote
As Effective range decreases, DPS should increase by relation
Therefor Rail Rifle should have the least Damage Per Second followed by Scrambler Rifle (ignoring charge) and increasing as we approach combat rifle and Assault Rifle having the highest DPS since its effective range is the least of the rifles. This should seem like common sense since weapons with shorter ranges are at a range disability, they should make up for it with a higher DPS value aka faster kills.
Damage Per Shot
With range, the damage per shot should increase. This is because at range it is essentially increasingly difficult to hit moving targets so each shot really needs to count and so thus Rail Rifle should have the most damage per shot followed by scrambler rifle, combat rifle, and assault rifle. This would mostly be because high range weapons need minimal kick to be effective at their ranges and thus a slower RoF which is compensated by a higher damage level.
Currently this only seems like common sense but as of now it's not being applied wholesomely to the game. Currently the Assault rifle is at both a range and DPS disadvantage to many if not all the other rifles. That does not make sense, to stack cons onto a weapon. If the game needs balance then why not have everything actually balanced? Where pros and cons offset eachother but cause the weapon to be used in a certain style. I'm not trying to cry specifically about the Assault Rifle but rather push for a range versus DPS versus damage scenario where there would be no unbalance (to your favor or lack there of) to your choice of rifle.
The rail rifle in terms of damage versus range currently follows suit however it has a DPS that defies its range. It's a simple equation where range decreases, DPS increases. It just makes sense.
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Fizzer94
L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1484
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Posted - 2014.01.21 21:42:00 -
[2] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:
As Effective range decreases, DPS should increase by relation
Therefor Rail Rifle should have the least Damage Per Second followed by Scrambler Rifle (ignoring charge) and increasing as we approach combat rifle and Assault Rifle having the highest DPS since its effective range is the least of the rifles. This should seem like common sense since weapons with shorter ranges are at a range disability, they should make up for it with a higher DPS value aka faster kills.
Damage Per Shot
With range, the damage per shot should increase. This is because at range it is essentially increasingly difficult to hit moving targets so each shot really needs to count and so thus Rail Rifle should have the most damage per shot followed by scrambler rifle, combat rifle, and assault rifle. This would mostly be because high range weapons need minimal kick to be effective at their ranges and thus a slower RoF which is compensated by a higher damage level.
Currently this only seems like common sense but as of now it's not being applied wholesomely to the game. Currently the Assault rifle is at both a range and DPS disadvantage to many if not all the other rifles. That does not make sense, to stack cons onto a weapon. If the game needs balance then why not have everything actually balanced? Where pros and cons offset eachother but cause the weapon to be used in a certain style. I'm not trying to cry specifically about the Assault Rifle but rather push for a range versus DPS versus damage scenario where there would be no unbalance (to your favor or lack there of) to your choice of rifle.
The rail rifle in terms of damage versus range currently follows suit however it has a DPS that defies its range. It's a simple equation where range decreases, DPS increases. It just makes sense. If ScRs had less DPS than ARs they would be useless. Look at the current TAC AR as an example. The frontloaded combat style of the ScR requires high DPS.
Yours Truly,
Reginald Fizzer94 Delafontaine III, Esquire
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Bojo The Mighty
L.O.T.I.S.
2853
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Posted - 2014.01.21 21:49:00 -
[3] - Quote
Fizzer94 wrote: If ScRs had less DPS than ARs they would be useless. Look at the current TAC AR as an example. The frontloaded combat style of the ScR requires high DPS.
But it outranges the TAC AR, it's all about playing the ranges and the damage application. If all weapons had a higher DPS then the Assault Rifle why would use the Assault Rifle? If the Rail Rifle had higher DPS than scrambler rifle then why bother with scrambler rifle. If everything is literally balanced, how could there be a wrong choice?
But thanks for bringing that up
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Fizzer94
L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1484
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Posted - 2014.01.21 22:06:00 -
[4] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:Fizzer94 wrote: If ScRs had less DPS than ARs they would be useless. Look at the current TAC AR as an example. The frontloaded combat style of the ScR requires high DPS.
But it outranges the TAC AR, it's all about playing the ranges and the damage application. If all weapons had a higher DPS then the Assault Rifle why would use the Assault Rifle? If the Rail Rifle had higher DPS than scrambler rifle then why bother with scrambler rifle. If everything is literally balanced, how could there be a wrong choice? But thanks for bringing that up You can't only balance with numbers... For the ScR to have less DPS than an AR it would require it to do only only 36 damage per shot, or have a RoF of 350 rounds per minute. I don't think I need to tell you that this would be utterly worthless.
Some weapons require more skill to use than others. In videogames, this skill requirement is almost always rewarded with higher DPS than another weapon that is easier to use.
Yours Truly,
Reginald Fizzer94 Delafontaine III, Esquire
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Bojo The Mighty
L.O.T.I.S.
2857
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Posted - 2014.01.21 22:10:00 -
[5] - Quote
Fizzer94 wrote:Bojo The Mighty wrote:Fizzer94 wrote: If ScRs had less DPS than ARs they would be useless. Look at the current TAC AR as an example. The frontloaded combat style of the ScR requires high DPS.
But it outranges the TAC AR, it's all about playing the ranges and the damage application. If all weapons had a higher DPS then the Assault Rifle why would use the Assault Rifle? If the Rail Rifle had higher DPS than scrambler rifle then why bother with scrambler rifle. If everything is literally balanced, how could there be a wrong choice? But thanks for bringing that up You can't only balance with numbers... For the ScR to have less DPS than an AR it would require it to do only only 36 damage per shot, or have a RoF of 350 rounds per minute. I don't think I need to tell you that this would be utterly worthless. Some weapons require more skill to use than others. In videogames, this skill requirement is almost always rewarded with higher DPS than another weapon that is easier to use. Or you scale the AR DPS up so you don't have to a 350 rof. But who/what defines what weapons require more skill? Semi-auto versus automatic? Heat versus lack there of (in that case ScR would have highest DPS followed by laser rifle, HMG, then KRINs)?And what would prevent it beating an AR in CQC? *Genuine questions not trying to be snooty*
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Denn Maell
PIanet Express Canis Eliminatus Operatives
91
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Posted - 2014.01.21 22:43:00 -
[6] - Quote
Good thoughts.
Of courses, there are other considerations such as Effective vs. Optimal range. Weapons with very low Optimum Ranges should have a higher theoretical DPS than weapons with much higher optimum ranges.
The most OP weapon on the Dust Battle Field:
One good logi, one rep tool, and a heavy.
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Fizzer94
L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1487
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Posted - 2014.01.21 23:18:00 -
[7] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:Fizzer94 wrote:Bojo The Mighty wrote:Fizzer94 wrote: If ScRs had less DPS than ARs they would be useless. Look at the current TAC AR as an example. The frontloaded combat style of the ScR requires high DPS.
But it outranges the TAC AR, it's all about playing the ranges and the damage application. If all weapons had a higher DPS then the Assault Rifle why would use the Assault Rifle? If the Rail Rifle had higher DPS than scrambler rifle then why bother with scrambler rifle. If everything is literally balanced, how could there be a wrong choice? But thanks for bringing that up You can't only balance with numbers... For the ScR to have less DPS than an AR it would require it to do only only 36 damage per shot, or have a RoF of 350 rounds per minute. I don't think I need to tell you that this would be utterly worthless. Some weapons require more skill to use than others. In videogames, this skill requirement is almost always rewarded with higher DPS than another weapon that is easier to use. Or you scale the AR DPS up so you don't have to a 350 rof. But who/what defines what weapons require more skill? Semi-auto versus automatic? Heat versus lack there of (in that case ScR would have highest DPS followed by laser rifle, HMG, then KRINs)?And what would prevent it beating an AR in CQC? *Genuine questions not trying to be snooty*
I'm not saying that ranges should have no effect on the DPS of a weapon, it should. If both the AR and ScR required the same amount of skill, I would definitely say the AR should have more DPS. But, the higher skill requirement of the ScR is large enough that it overrides that that rule. There is no scientific way to determine this, and you often have to follow your gut. You should just know whether one weapon requires more skill than another.
In order from highest to lowest skill requirement, the rifles:
Laser Rifle Overheat, backwards damage profile, small optimal range, no dispersion
Scrambler Rifle Semiautomatic, Overheat
Tactical Blaster Rifle Semiautomatic, Small Magazine
Burst Blaster Rifle Burst Fire, High RoF
Combat Rifle Burst fire, High RoF
Rail Rifle Fulky Automatic Charge time, Low Rof
Blaster Rifle Fully Automatic, Large Magazine
Assault Rail Rifle Fully Automatic
Assault Combat Rifle Fully Automatic, High RoF
Yours Truly,
Reginald Fizzer94 Delafontaine III, Esquire
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Ulysses Knapse
Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm
1097
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Posted - 2014.01.21 23:50:00 -
[8] - Quote
Fizzer94 wrote:Laser Rifle Overheat, backwards damage profile, small optimal range, no dispersion
Scrambler Rifle Semiautomatic, Overheat
Tactical Blaster Rifle Semiautomatic, Small Magazine
Burst Blaster Rifle Burst Fire, High RoF
Combat Rifle Burst fire, High RoF
Rail Rifle Fulky Automatic Charge time, Low Rof
Blaster Rifle Fully Automatic, Large Magazine
Assault Rail Rifle Fully Automatic
Assault Combat Rifle Fully Automatic, High RoF Are we calling them "Blaster Rifles" now? How unimaginative. Might as well call the others the Railgun Rifle, Autocannon Rifle and Pulse Laser Rifle. Also, the Laser Rifle should not be grouped with the AR-type weapons, it is very much unique.
What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage?
The pile of garbage is more lethal.
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Fizzer94
L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1487
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Posted - 2014.01.21 23:55:00 -
[9] - Quote
Ulysses Knapse wrote:Fizzer94 wrote:Laser Rifle Overheat, backwards damage profile, small optimal range, no dispersion
Scrambler Rifle Semiautomatic, Overheat
Tactical Blaster Rifle Semiautomatic, Small Magazine
Burst Blaster Rifle Burst Fire, High RoF
Combat Rifle Burst fire, High RoF
Rail Rifle Fulky Automatic Charge time, Low Rof
Blaster Rifle Fully Automatic, Large Magazine
Assault Rail Rifle Fully Automatic
Assault Combat Rifle Fully Automatic, High RoF Are we calling them "Blaster Rifles" now? How unimaginative. Might as well call the others the Railgun Rifle, Autocannon Rifle and Pulse Laser Rifle. Also, the Laser Rifle should not be grouped with the AR-type weapons, it is very much unique. Its what I and few others have decided to call them . At least its more imaginative than 'Assault Rifle' I pushed for 'Ion Carbine', but they wanted nothing of it...
I know that Laser Rifle isn't in the same category, but I did want to clarify to him that it requires more skill to use than a ScR, and ought to do more damage.
Yours Truly,
Reginald Fizzer94 Delafontaine III, Esquire
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Bojo The Mighty
L.O.T.I.S.
2865
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Posted - 2014.01.22 02:40:00 -
[10] - Quote
I can agree giving the Laser Rifle some damn fine DPS given used properly. But that's different, and maybe every weapon should have a "sweet spot" that gives a minor boost to DPS to most weapons and maybe some more boost to the scrambler rifle.
That way you may keep a logical DPS progression by range but rewarding skill which is more so rewarding with the SCR given that you are further rewarded.
However, if I was to reconstruct your list I would swap the TAR and the ScR. Managing the ScR heat can be effort intensive but honestly it kicks like it was shooting feathers (given it's shooting near massless beams) and in CQC the accuracy much like the Rail Rifle can be devastating in it's own way. ScR is a very accurate weapon and given that you don't have to commit to pray and spray like the rail rifle (due to charge feature) but you can very well trigger spam if you want to and bring tremendous DPS but in a short period (overheat). But right there the balancing act is the overheat rather than a diminished DPS.
But I can agree, special case weapons, special case DPS adjustments. But only if the special case is a rather small window of opportunity. i.e. Combat rifle trigger spam to max creates a high DPS but runs the clip dry very quickly (I mean very) and recoil intensive (and I mean intensive).
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Mobius Kaethis
Molon Labe. Public Disorder.
1201
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Posted - 2014.01.22 02:44:00 -
[11] - Quote
The OP is well thought out and would lead to more diversity of game play. I support it whole heartedly.
Fun > Realism
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BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
1639
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 04:50:00 -
[12] - Quote
The SCR should have a lower DPS regardless of its heat and tactical status. Reason being is that it's bread and butter is the charged shot. Meaning the SCR can go from a DMR to a SR in the click of a button. Keep in mind for a long range weapon lower DPS almost always means lower rof not lower damage. In the case of the SCR it might also need some lower damage but a longer time until cool down. My reason being is that if you look at the ion pistol it has the lowest DPS and the lowest range of all the pistols but a 350 damage charged shot which justifies it's lower than average DPS and this is a very special weapon.
As for the overall DPS balance of this game i think it should come with rof, accuracy, stability, and clip buffs/nerfs.
I did read all your rifle changes post and I have to slightly disagree with the accuracy one. I judge accuracy by two ratings, accuracy by the accuracy stat and stability. The accuracy stat affects how good the weapon is in CQC, while stability Is not a stat it affects the weapons climb. I believe thst CQC weapons should have the best accuracy but the worst stability, vice versa for long range. There is also bullet spread, and I also believe that the AR and CR should have decent bullet spread while the SCR and RR have tight spread, a tight weapon would meab that you need pinpint accuracy wether in ADS or hipfiring to hit a target. This along with what I said about accuracy and DPS would make long range weapons good at long range, very good, but very bad at CQC.
As for clip size long range weapons have a higher damage per shot therefore they need a smaller clip to maintain an equal clip size damage count. At the moment high damage per shot weapons also maintain a higher total clip damage, enough so that their longer reloads do not help bring down this damage. This should also be adjusted.
Armor and Shields are not the same!
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Bojo The Mighty
L.O.T.I.S.
2870
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Posted - 2014.01.22 06:32:00 -
[13] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:The SCR should have a lower DPS regardless of its heat and tactical status. Reason being is that it's bread and butter is the charged shot. Meaning the SCR can go from a DMR to a SR in the click of a button. Keep in mind for a long range weapon lower DPS almost always means lower rof not lower damage. In the case of the SCR it might also need some lower damage but a longer time until cool down. My reason being is that if you look at the ion pistol it has the lowest DPS and the lowest range of all the pistols but a 350 damage charged shot which justifies it's lower than average DPS and this is a very special weapon.
As for the overall DPS balance of this game i think it should come with rof, accuracy, stability, and clip buffs/nerfs.
I did read all your rifle changes post and I have to slightly disagree with the accuracy one. I judge accuracy by two ratings, accuracy by the accuracy stat and stability. The accuracy stat affects how good the weapon is in CQC, while stability Is not a stat it affects the weapons climb. I believe thst CQC weapons should have the best accuracy but the worst stability, vice versa for long range. There is also bullet spread, and I also believe that the AR and CR should have decent bullet spread while the SCR and RR have tight spread, a tight weapon would meab that you need pinpint accuracy wether in ADS or hipfiring to hit a target. This along with what I said about accuracy and DPS would make long range weapons good at long range, very good, but very bad at CQC.
As for clip size long range weapons have a higher damage per shot therefore they need a smaller clip to maintain an equal clip size damage count. At the moment high damage per shot weapons also maintain a higher total clip damage, enough so that their longer reloads do not help bring down this damage. This should also be adjusted.
Bojo The Mighty wrote: + Accuracy Ratings Simple and to the point, the greater the range of weapon, the higher the accuracy. It would not make sense to have a long range weapon not being able to actually hit things at long range. As we shorten effective range of rifles (approaching Assault Rifle) you delve into pray and spray mechanics. Currently the Rail Rifle's high accuracy rating allows it to be a good cqc weapon as well, but mainly because of the current DPS imbalance. Given that AR should have highest DPS, in a cqc scenario the Assault Rifle should really beat the RR.
Now we all know that currently the Rail Rifle's tight hipfire (higher accuracy and slower RoF) make CQC handling actually pretty effective, as CCP introduced the Breach Assault Rifle we should have been well aware of this. So in a Rail Rifle versus AR in AR optimal, the dispersion on the assault rifle should only be enough to the point where targets beyond optimal become increasingly difficult to accurately hit (when full auto so you would need to manage shots to get a good accuracy at longer ranges) but not so much to where in a CQC loss of control would be too great to bear or too quick to manage.
Basically you actually are agreeing with me or I worded it wrong. You do however have a point on "climb". Rail Rifle needs tight hipfire and spread, but an increase climb would be worth adjusting, making the Rail Rifle effectively accurate but moving upwards more radically. However that shouldn't apply in ADS, just because at range we can't have the accuracy ruined by too much climb.
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Kierkegaard Soren
Forsaken Immortals Top Men.
135
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Posted - 2014.01.22 09:16:00 -
[14] - Quote
The scrambler is an assault rifle in role designation, and for the most part it goes about it by dealing massive alpha damage through its charge shot and then finishing off its target with a few well placed shots. But the key balancing factor to consider to my mind is how effective can any assault weapon deal with multiple opponents at the same time or in quick succession in mod to close range? The combat rifle, for example, is king in this respect; it can apply enourmous amounts of damage to multiple targets with pinpoint accuracy even in hip fire with zero drawbacks save for, perhaps, the clip size. In comparison the rail rifle is an all or nothing sort of weapon that forces you choose between tactical bursts that require a spool up time for each application or just spraying and praying and hoping you kill everything before you run out of rounds or the kickback becomes unmanageable.
Apologies for the wall of text here.
The scrambler, then, is reigned in pretty hard with the overheat mechanic when in the hands of a user who is seriously skilled in its use. It can and will kill your first designated target when engaging in an assault, but after that things get difficult. Have you ever felt that after that first kill you gain a sort of momentum that can carry you through multiple opponents if you learn to ride it right? I certainly did with the CR, and every time I try and emulate that approach with the scram I overheat and bite it. So I duck back into cover for the cool down, and that let's up the pressure on my enemy. A tactical disadvantage not shown in any spreadsheet from CCP, but a very real one I assure you.
Right now the scram works much more like a TAC. In fact it's probably the best one out there. And it certainly had the ability to carry you through short CQC engagements, but it's no assault rifle in practice. Make the standard closer to the current assault version, make the assault a burst fire and a breach that is essentially what we have right now as the standard scram. Adjust weapon ranges to suit these roles in a common sense manner, and I think we might have something close to parity with other rifles without making it OP.
Dedicated Commando.
"He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." -Paul Atreides.
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Korvin Lomont
487
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Posted - 2014.01.22 09:26:00 -
[15] - Quote
Fizzer94 wrote:Bojo The Mighty wrote:Fizzer94 wrote: If ScRs had less DPS than ARs they would be useless. Look at the current TAC AR as an example. The frontloaded combat style of the ScR requires high DPS.
But it outranges the TAC AR, it's all about playing the ranges and the damage application. If all weapons had a higher DPS then the Assault Rifle why would use the Assault Rifle? If the Rail Rifle had higher DPS than scrambler rifle then why bother with scrambler rifle. If everything is literally balanced, how could there be a wrong choice? But thanks for bringing that up You can't only balance with numbers... For the ScR to have less DPS than an AR it would require it to do only only 36 damage per shot, or have a RoF of 350 rounds per minute. I don't think I need to tell you that this would be utterly worthless. Some weapons require more skill to use than others. In videogames, this skill requirement is almost always rewarded with higher DPS than another weapon that is easier to use.
Please compare the SCR to Tac AR as both have the same role. I have no problem with the SCR having higher DPS compared to the AR.
My problem is the SCR has way higher DPS than the Tac AND the ASCR has basicly the same DPS than a GEK whith both weapons providing greater range and THAT is wrong. |
Bojo The Mighty
L.O.T.I.S.
2875
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Posted - 2014.01.22 22:35:00 -
[16] - Quote
Kierkegaard Soren wrote:The scrambler is an assault rifle in role designation I snipped the rest.
First of all this really belongs in my other thread Rifle Changes: Variations. And secondly I want to disagree with you right there. The scrambler rifle is an Amarr rifle in role designation, meaning it should have 3rd longest range, 3rd highest DPS (2nd Lowest). The goal of the Tactical Assault Rifle is to attempt to mimic the Scrambler rifle while the goal of the Assault Scrambler Rifle is to mimic the Assault Rifle role, not the scrambler rifle trying to fill the AR role.
Every Standard (Vanilla) Rifle is filling the shoes of the corresponding Race's main weapon. All four rifles are different in operation and stats and none are very similar. To get similar to another weapon, one uses variants. The current Scrambler rifle is not a racial variant of assault rifle.
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Killar-12
The Corporate Raiders Top Men.
2101
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Posted - 2014.01.27 02:44:00 -
[17] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:The SCR should have a lower DPS regardless of its heat and tactical status. Reason being is that it's bread and butter is the charged shot. Meaning the SCR can go from a DMR to a SR in the click of a button. Keep in mind for a long range weapon lower DPS almost always means lower rof not lower damage. In the case of the SCR it might also need some lower damage but a longer time until cool down. My reason being is that if you look at the ion pistol it has the lowest DPS and the lowest range of all the pistols but a 350 damage charged shot which justifies it's lower than average DPS and this is a very special weapon.
As for the overall DPS balance of this game i think it should come with rof, accuracy, stability, and clip buffs/nerfs.
I did read all your rifle changes post and I have to slightly disagree with the accuracy one. I judge accuracy by two ratings, accuracy by the accuracy stat and stability. The accuracy stat affects how good the weapon is in CQC, while stability Is not a stat it affects the weapons climb. I believe thst CQC weapons should have the best accuracy but the worst stability, vice versa for long range. There is also bullet spread, and I also believe that the AR and CR should have decent bullet spread while the SCR and RR have tight spread, a tight weapon would meab that you need pinpint accuracy wether in ADS or hipfiring to hit a target. This along with what I said about accuracy and DPS would make long range weapons good at long range, very good, but very bad at CQC.
As for clip size long range weapons have a higher damage per shot therefore they need a smaller clip to maintain an equal clip size damage count. At the moment high damage per shot weapons also maintain a higher total clip damage, enough so that their longer reloads do not help bring down this damage. This should also be adjusted. I'm not sure if it's been addressed but the DPS over a minute isn't as great due to heat... someone should look into that... just not me
A-Teams win Battles B-Teams win Campaigns C-Teams win Wars
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
465
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Posted - 2014.02.06 21:59:00 -
[18] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote: As Effective range decreases, DPS should increase by relation
Therefor Rail Rifle should have the least Damage Per Second followed by Scrambler Rifle (ignoring charge) and increasing as we approach combat rifle and Assault Rifle having the highest DPS since its effective range is the least of the rifles. This should seem like common sense since weapons with shorter ranges are at a range disability, they should make up for it with a higher DPS value aka faster kills.
Damage Per Shot
With range, the damage per shot should increase. This is because at range it is essentially increasingly difficult to hit moving targets so each shot really needs to count and so thus Rail Rifle should have the most damage per shot followed by scrambler rifle, combat rifle, and assault rifle. This would mostly be because high range weapons need minimal kick to be effective at their ranges and thus a slower RoF which is compensated by a higher damage level.
Currently this only seems like common sense but as of now it's not being applied wholesomely to the game. Currently the Assault rifle is at both a range and DPS disadvantage to many if not all the other rifles. That does not make sense, to stack cons onto a weapon. If the game needs balance then why not have everything actually balanced? Where pros and cons offset eachother but cause the weapon to be used in a certain style. I'm not trying to cry specifically about the Assault Rifle but rather push for a range versus DPS versus damage scenario where there would be no unbalance (to your favor or lack there of) to your choice of rifle.
The rail rifle in terms of damage versus range currently follows suit however it has a DPS that defies its range. It's a simple equation where range decreases, DPS increases. It just makes sense.
The idea is to emphasize where effort is put into the mercenary. For example, Rail Rife users would need to expend minimal effort into traversing to get targets in range. The emphasis is put on being able to apply the damage over time and keep enemies from closing gaps. The ScR users would need to spend a little effort into getting in range but once they are there the rest of the battle is applying the damage over time and not allow gaps to be closed. As we get to CR and AR the battle becomes more about closing the gap then applying damage over time. Admittedly the weapons should not do everything for them, there should be no EZ mode. But really it should be a challenge for a Assault User to close the distance on the Rail Rifle user and for the rail rifle user to kill the Assault Rifle user before it is too late. That puts an emphasis on skill and strategy.
I agree, but the scrambler rifle would need a slow rof, like between a breach and regualr scrambler pistol, but lower heat up than it has now, especially for charged shots
Kills- Archduke Ferdinand
Balance!
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Mordecai Sanguine
What The French
395
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Posted - 2014.02.06 23:18:00 -
[19] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote: As Effective range decreases, DPS should increase by relation
Therefor Rail Rifle should have the least Damage Per Second followed by Scrambler Rifle (ignoring charge) and increasing as we approach combat rifle and Assault Rifle having the highest DPS since its effective range is the least of the rifles. This should seem like common sense since weapons with shorter ranges are at a range disability, they should make up for it with a higher DPS value aka faster kills.
Damage Per Shot
With range, the damage per shot should increase. This is because at range it is essentially increasingly difficult to hit moving targets so each shot really needs to count and so thus Rail Rifle should have the most damage per shot followed by scrambler rifle, combat rifle, and assault rifle. This would mostly be because high range weapons need minimal kick to be effective at their ranges and thus a slower RoF which is compensated by a higher damage level.
Currently this only seems like common sense but as of now it's not being applied wholesomely to the game. Currently the Assault rifle is at both a range and DPS disadvantage to many if not all the other rifles. That does not make sense, to stack cons onto a weapon. If the game needs balance then why not have everything actually balanced? Where pros and cons offset eachother but cause the weapon to be used in a certain style. I'm not trying to cry specifically about the Assault Rifle but rather push for a range versus DPS versus damage scenario where there would be no unbalance (to your favor or lack there of) to your choice of rifle.
The rail rifle in terms of damage versus range currently follows suit however it has a DPS that defies its range. It's a simple equation where range decreases, DPS increases. It just makes sense.
The idea is to emphasize where effort is put into the mercenary. For example, Rail Rife users would need to expend minimal effort into traversing to get targets in range. The emphasis is put on being able to apply the damage over time and keep enemies from closing gaps. The ScR users would need to spend a little effort into getting in range but once they are there the rest of the battle is applying the damage over time and not allow gaps to be closed. As we get to CR and AR the battle becomes more about closing the gap then applying damage over time. Admittedly the weapons should not do everything for them, there should be no EZ mode. But really it should be a challenge for a Assault User to close the distance on the Rail Rifle user and for the rail rifle user to kill the Assault Rifle user before it is too late. That puts an emphasis on skill and strategy.
So.....You want SCR to have : Lower DPS. Skill requirement. Higher recoil. Overheat. Semi-auto (yes it's a drawbavk). And 11PG for a STD version which is 30% of a STD suit. 20% penality on armor which is 50-80% of the ehp of any target.
For....Nothing ? Well.....That's not very funny for a joke.
Semi automatic weapons ALWAYS need higher DPS it's simply mathematic. In fact you don't resolve problems you just create NEW problem.
Oh and in his range AR already have the best DPS exepting the Combat rifle which has the best dps over all weapons. |
Dalmont Legrand
262
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Posted - 2014.02.06 23:22:00 -
[20] - Quote
What you wrote here is called balance and it seems is hard to implement.
The best is yet to come
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Floyd20 Azizora
L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
4
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Posted - 2014.02.07 00:07:00 -
[21] - Quote
you cant have dps and range be an inverse line, they are many other factors that have to be considered (accuracy, clip size, heat, charge time, explosion radius, ease of use, to a lesser extent cpu and pg use)
under this system, the sniper would tickle you lightly, the laser rifle (which needs to out range RR's), will act like a laser pointer, and shotguns/knifes will 1 shot heavies. Are RR's a bit to good in short range. in skilled hands/keyboard and mouse users, yes. will lowering dps fix that, yes. will it hurt it at long range(60m out), yes, badly. |
Bojo The Mighty
L.O.T.I.S.
3084
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Posted - 2014.02.07 00:38:00 -
[22] - Quote
A lot of you are assuming that the least DPs=poor dps
Rifle Changes: DPS, range, and damage
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
466
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Posted - 2014.02.07 02:23:00 -
[23] - Quote
Floyd20 Azizora wrote:you cant have dps and range be an inverse line, they are many other factors that have to be considered (accuracy, clip size, heat, charge time, explosion radius, ease of use, to a lesser extent cpu and pg use)
under this system, the sniper would tickle you lightly, the laser rifle (which needs to out range RR's), will act like a laser pointer, and shotguns/knifes will 1 shot heavies. Are RR's a bit to good in short range. in skilled hands/keyboard and mouse users, yes. will lowering dps fix that, yes. will it hurt it at long range(60m out), yes, badly. knives should 1 shot heavies
Kills- Archduke Ferdinand
Balance!
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Bojo The Mighty
L.O.T.I.S.
3084
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Posted - 2014.02.07 02:31:00 -
[24] - Quote
Floyd20 Azizora wrote: under this system, the sniper would tickle you lightly, the laser rifle (which needs to out range RR's), will act like a laser pointer, and shotguns/knifes will 1 shot heavies. Are RR's a bit to good in short range. in skilled hands/keyboard and mouse users, yes. will lowering dps fix that, yes. will it hurt it at long range(60m out), yes, badly.
No like I said: damage per shot should increase with range but DPs decreases. So a bolt pistol out DPs a rail rifle which out DPs a sniper rifle. It would not make sense to use a weapon with the shortest range when it is not the highest in dps
Rifle Changes: DPS, range, and damage
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