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Bojo The Mighty
L.O.T.I.S.
2852
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Posted - 2014.01.21 21:37:00 -
[1] - Quote
As Effective range decreases, DPS should increase by relation
Therefor Rail Rifle should have the least Damage Per Second followed by Scrambler Rifle (ignoring charge) and increasing as we approach combat rifle and Assault Rifle having the highest DPS since its effective range is the least of the rifles. This should seem like common sense since weapons with shorter ranges are at a range disability, they should make up for it with a higher DPS value aka faster kills.
Damage Per Shot
With range, the damage per shot should increase. This is because at range it is essentially increasingly difficult to hit moving targets so each shot really needs to count and so thus Rail Rifle should have the most damage per shot followed by scrambler rifle, combat rifle, and assault rifle. This would mostly be because high range weapons need minimal kick to be effective at their ranges and thus a slower RoF which is compensated by a higher damage level.
Currently this only seems like common sense but as of now it's not being applied wholesomely to the game. Currently the Assault rifle is at both a range and DPS disadvantage to many if not all the other rifles. That does not make sense, to stack cons onto a weapon. If the game needs balance then why not have everything actually balanced? Where pros and cons offset eachother but cause the weapon to be used in a certain style. I'm not trying to cry specifically about the Assault Rifle but rather push for a range versus DPS versus damage scenario where there would be no unbalance (to your favor or lack there of) to your choice of rifle.
The rail rifle in terms of damage versus range currently follows suit however it has a DPS that defies its range. It's a simple equation where range decreases, DPS increases. It just makes sense.
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Bojo The Mighty
L.O.T.I.S.
2853
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Posted - 2014.01.21 21:49:00 -
[2] - Quote
Fizzer94 wrote: If ScRs had less DPS than ARs they would be useless. Look at the current TAC AR as an example. The frontloaded combat style of the ScR requires high DPS.
But it outranges the TAC AR, it's all about playing the ranges and the damage application. If all weapons had a higher DPS then the Assault Rifle why would use the Assault Rifle? If the Rail Rifle had higher DPS than scrambler rifle then why bother with scrambler rifle. If everything is literally balanced, how could there be a wrong choice?
But thanks for bringing that up
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Bojo The Mighty
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2857
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Posted - 2014.01.21 22:10:00 -
[3] - Quote
Fizzer94 wrote:Bojo The Mighty wrote:Fizzer94 wrote: If ScRs had less DPS than ARs they would be useless. Look at the current TAC AR as an example. The frontloaded combat style of the ScR requires high DPS.
But it outranges the TAC AR, it's all about playing the ranges and the damage application. If all weapons had a higher DPS then the Assault Rifle why would use the Assault Rifle? If the Rail Rifle had higher DPS than scrambler rifle then why bother with scrambler rifle. If everything is literally balanced, how could there be a wrong choice? But thanks for bringing that up You can't only balance with numbers... For the ScR to have less DPS than an AR it would require it to do only only 36 damage per shot, or have a RoF of 350 rounds per minute. I don't think I need to tell you that this would be utterly worthless. Some weapons require more skill to use than others. In videogames, this skill requirement is almost always rewarded with higher DPS than another weapon that is easier to use. Or you scale the AR DPS up so you don't have to a 350 rof. But who/what defines what weapons require more skill? Semi-auto versus automatic? Heat versus lack there of (in that case ScR would have highest DPS followed by laser rifle, HMG, then KRINs)?And what would prevent it beating an AR in CQC? *Genuine questions not trying to be snooty*
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Bojo The Mighty
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2865
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Posted - 2014.01.22 02:40:00 -
[4] - Quote
I can agree giving the Laser Rifle some damn fine DPS given used properly. But that's different, and maybe every weapon should have a "sweet spot" that gives a minor boost to DPS to most weapons and maybe some more boost to the scrambler rifle.
That way you may keep a logical DPS progression by range but rewarding skill which is more so rewarding with the SCR given that you are further rewarded.
However, if I was to reconstruct your list I would swap the TAR and the ScR. Managing the ScR heat can be effort intensive but honestly it kicks like it was shooting feathers (given it's shooting near massless beams) and in CQC the accuracy much like the Rail Rifle can be devastating in it's own way. ScR is a very accurate weapon and given that you don't have to commit to pray and spray like the rail rifle (due to charge feature) but you can very well trigger spam if you want to and bring tremendous DPS but in a short period (overheat). But right there the balancing act is the overheat rather than a diminished DPS.
But I can agree, special case weapons, special case DPS adjustments. But only if the special case is a rather small window of opportunity. i.e. Combat rifle trigger spam to max creates a high DPS but runs the clip dry very quickly (I mean very) and recoil intensive (and I mean intensive).
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Bojo The Mighty
L.O.T.I.S.
2870
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Posted - 2014.01.22 06:32:00 -
[5] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:The SCR should have a lower DPS regardless of its heat and tactical status. Reason being is that it's bread and butter is the charged shot. Meaning the SCR can go from a DMR to a SR in the click of a button. Keep in mind for a long range weapon lower DPS almost always means lower rof not lower damage. In the case of the SCR it might also need some lower damage but a longer time until cool down. My reason being is that if you look at the ion pistol it has the lowest DPS and the lowest range of all the pistols but a 350 damage charged shot which justifies it's lower than average DPS and this is a very special weapon.
As for the overall DPS balance of this game i think it should come with rof, accuracy, stability, and clip buffs/nerfs.
I did read all your rifle changes post and I have to slightly disagree with the accuracy one. I judge accuracy by two ratings, accuracy by the accuracy stat and stability. The accuracy stat affects how good the weapon is in CQC, while stability Is not a stat it affects the weapons climb. I believe thst CQC weapons should have the best accuracy but the worst stability, vice versa for long range. There is also bullet spread, and I also believe that the AR and CR should have decent bullet spread while the SCR and RR have tight spread, a tight weapon would meab that you need pinpint accuracy wether in ADS or hipfiring to hit a target. This along with what I said about accuracy and DPS would make long range weapons good at long range, very good, but very bad at CQC.
As for clip size long range weapons have a higher damage per shot therefore they need a smaller clip to maintain an equal clip size damage count. At the moment high damage per shot weapons also maintain a higher total clip damage, enough so that their longer reloads do not help bring down this damage. This should also be adjusted.
Bojo The Mighty wrote: + Accuracy Ratings Simple and to the point, the greater the range of weapon, the higher the accuracy. It would not make sense to have a long range weapon not being able to actually hit things at long range. As we shorten effective range of rifles (approaching Assault Rifle) you delve into pray and spray mechanics. Currently the Rail Rifle's high accuracy rating allows it to be a good cqc weapon as well, but mainly because of the current DPS imbalance. Given that AR should have highest DPS, in a cqc scenario the Assault Rifle should really beat the RR.
Now we all know that currently the Rail Rifle's tight hipfire (higher accuracy and slower RoF) make CQC handling actually pretty effective, as CCP introduced the Breach Assault Rifle we should have been well aware of this. So in a Rail Rifle versus AR in AR optimal, the dispersion on the assault rifle should only be enough to the point where targets beyond optimal become increasingly difficult to accurately hit (when full auto so you would need to manage shots to get a good accuracy at longer ranges) but not so much to where in a CQC loss of control would be too great to bear or too quick to manage.
Basically you actually are agreeing with me or I worded it wrong. You do however have a point on "climb". Rail Rifle needs tight hipfire and spread, but an increase climb would be worth adjusting, making the Rail Rifle effectively accurate but moving upwards more radically. However that shouldn't apply in ADS, just because at range we can't have the accuracy ruined by too much climb.
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Bojo The Mighty
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2875
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Posted - 2014.01.22 22:35:00 -
[6] - Quote
Kierkegaard Soren wrote:The scrambler is an assault rifle in role designation I snipped the rest.
First of all this really belongs in my other thread Rifle Changes: Variations. And secondly I want to disagree with you right there. The scrambler rifle is an Amarr rifle in role designation, meaning it should have 3rd longest range, 3rd highest DPS (2nd Lowest). The goal of the Tactical Assault Rifle is to attempt to mimic the Scrambler rifle while the goal of the Assault Scrambler Rifle is to mimic the Assault Rifle role, not the scrambler rifle trying to fill the AR role.
Every Standard (Vanilla) Rifle is filling the shoes of the corresponding Race's main weapon. All four rifles are different in operation and stats and none are very similar. To get similar to another weapon, one uses variants. The current Scrambler rifle is not a racial variant of assault rifle.
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Bojo The Mighty
L.O.T.I.S.
3084
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Posted - 2014.02.07 00:38:00 -
[7] - Quote
A lot of you are assuming that the least DPs=poor dps
Rifle Changes: DPS, range, and damage
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Bojo The Mighty
L.O.T.I.S.
3084
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Posted - 2014.02.07 02:31:00 -
[8] - Quote
Floyd20 Azizora wrote: under this system, the sniper would tickle you lightly, the laser rifle (which needs to out range RR's), will act like a laser pointer, and shotguns/knifes will 1 shot heavies. Are RR's a bit to good in short range. in skilled hands/keyboard and mouse users, yes. will lowering dps fix that, yes. will it hurt it at long range(60m out), yes, badly.
No like I said: damage per shot should increase with range but DPs decreases. So a bolt pistol out DPs a rail rifle which out DPs a sniper rifle. It would not make sense to use a weapon with the shortest range when it is not the highest in dps
Rifle Changes: DPS, range, and damage
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