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Galvan Nized wrote:

Aero Yassavi wrote:

Galvan Nized wrote:

I never said it justified the weaker bonus. Original Post mentions how the Gal is faster and Aero mentions the inherent armor regen. I merely brought up the fact Amarr does indeed have some advantages over the Gal.

I said they were balanced UNTIL you look at bonus, not that they are balanced in general. I was merely putting the bonuses on the table in context too.

Well exactly, all the racial base stats have something over each other. Amarr has a little more HP and stamina, but Gallente has a little more speed and regen for example. That's why when discussing the balance of racial bonuses you should not bring up the base stats.

Base stats get balanced with base stats
Racial bonuses get balanced with racial bonuses

Okay I want to put bonuses into further context just so everyone gets a better idea.

Assuming max skilled Dampening, Range Amplifying, Biotics skill, and scout skill. Focusing solely on profile, range, and stamina/stamina regen.

In Dust everything is a factor when doing the math with percentage based bonuses/mods/skills, bonuses are not added with mods/skills they are each their OWN factor.

Here is Amarr stats. Profile: 31.5 , Range: 24m , Stamina 295.3125, Stamina Regen 52.5.

Gal stats. Profile 23.625 , Range 30m, Stamina 210, Stamina Regen 31.5.

Alright, I also want to include 1 Proto Dampener, Range Amplifier, and Cardiac Regulator mod.

Amarr. Profile: 23.625 , Range 34.8m, Stamina 590.625 , Stamina Regen 105.

Gal. Pofile: 17.71875 , Range 43.5 , Stamina 420 , Stamina Regen 63.

In perspective: Amarr has 33% higher profile, 20% less range, has about 40% more stamina, with 67% better regen.

The Amarr bonus and base stamina yields more advantage than the Gal bonus in terms of percent.

Just for kicks I'm going to change Amarr bonus to a complex Regulator, 100% more stamina and regen, and do the calculations.

No mod just bonus: Stamina 472.5 , Stamina Regen 84.

With a pro regulator. Stamina 945 (OMG) , Stamina regen 168.

In perspective Amarr would now have 125% (2.25x) more stamina and 169% (2.69x) more regen over the Gal. Now we see why they were not given a free complex Regulator as a bonus.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 2894	Posted - 2014.01.20 11:27:00 - [31] - Quote HYENAKILLER X wrote: Lol 3 complex plates slow things way down. I dont care what suit you are in. why get a scout and mess with speed? A real scout dream is 3 high 3 low. Thats where it gets good. The best fit for actual usage will be 2 advance plates and 2 complex reactive plates with proto weapon with dmg mods. Why would anyone ever use a reactive plate??? No.
ALPHA DECRIPTER Dragon-Empire 676	Posted - 2014.01.20 11:47:00 - [32] - Quote Huh, didn't notice that amarr got only one racial bonus. That seems pretty unfair to me. A-Scouts are requesting an upgrade of there current bonus to match the corresponding mod? Why not give it to 'em? Yea the A and G-scouts can get really tanked out but last time I checked it wasn't about the tank but the tactics. A cardiac upgrade fits the amarr but I must agree that they could use a little something extra to allow them to really stand out, ya know? Almost wanna give them the hacking bonus give the M-scouts a bonus to REs (just throwing it out there). Scout Tactician Dance puppets, DANCE!
Galvan Nized Deep Space Republic 536	Posted - 2014.01.20 11:54:00 - [33] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Galvan Nized wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Also forgot to mention that in that fitting the Gal scout has 3 HP/s armor repair, so definitely better. To be fair you also have to mention how the Amarr gets 25 more stamina and 1.33x faster stamina regen over the Gal before the bonus is even applied. The two are balanced until the inherent armor rep comes up or you take a look at the bonuses. Max Scout skill Amarr has stamina pool 281.25 with 50 stamina regen. Giving it 81.25 stamina/20 stamina regen advantage. Max Scout skill Gal scans at 24m and scan profile is 26.25. This doesn't apply any other skills like dampening, range amplifying, biotics skill. Just dropsuit should. How does that justify as weaker/lesser racial bonus. The Amarr suit naturally have these stamina bonuses as part of what makes then unique, like the Min Speed, the high Cal Shield, and the high Gal Armour. As I keep saying, why do the Amarr have to barter with the base stats which differential them from the other factions in order to have a decent bonus? I never said it justified the weaker bonus. Original Post mentions how the Gal is faster and Aero mentions the inherent armor regen. I merely brought up the fact Amarr does indeed have some advantages over the Gal. I said they were balanced UNTIL you look at bonus, not that they are balanced in general. I was merely putting the bonuses on the table in context too.
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5563	Posted - 2014.01.20 11:57:00 - [34] - Quote Galvan Nized wrote: I never said it justified the weaker bonus. Original Post mentions how the Gal is faster and Aero mentions the inherent armor regen. I merely brought up the fact Amarr does indeed have some advantages over the Gal. I said they were balanced UNTIL you look at bonus, not that they are balanced in general. I was merely putting the bonuses on the table in context too. Well exactly, all the racial base stats have something over each other. Amarr has a little more HP and stamina, but Gallente has a little more speed and regen for example. That's why when discussing the balance of racial bonuses you should not bring up the base stats. Base stats get balanced with base stats Racial bonuses get balanced with racial bonuses ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Meee One The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 200	Posted - 2014.01.20 12:38:00 - [35] - Quote Amarr scouts DO get 2 bonuses: -max stamina -stamina regen You're so used to seeing a cardiac regulator you count them as one. There is no other module that boosts 2 things at once. Amarr scouts advantage will be distance and endurance. Which is accurate to the race,stop begging your supposed to have pride as an amarrian...unless you have no faith. Sexy jutsu Time to jaaam!
I-Shayz-I I-----I 2043	Posted - 2014.01.20 12:47:00 - [36] - Quote https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1733974 My forum post with the stats and stuff all organized in an excel sheet format. Direct link here: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0ByYUjq_P9RY0TnNPemxqb1BfZFk/edit Links: List of Most Important Threads I make logistics videos!
Galvan Nized Deep Space Republic 537	Posted - 2014.01.20 12:51:00 - [37] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Galvan Nized wrote: I never said it justified the weaker bonus. Original Post mentions how the Gal is faster and Aero mentions the inherent armor regen. I merely brought up the fact Amarr does indeed have some advantages over the Gal. I said they were balanced UNTIL you look at bonus, not that they are balanced in general. I was merely putting the bonuses on the table in context too. Well exactly, all the racial base stats have something over each other. Amarr has a little more HP and stamina, but Gallente has a little more speed and regen for example. That's why when discussing the balance of racial bonuses you should not bring up the base stats. Base stats get balanced with base stats Racial bonuses get balanced with racial bonuses Okay I want to put bonuses into further context just so everyone gets a better idea. Assuming max skilled Dampening, Range Amplifying, Biotics skill, and scout skill. Focusing solely on profile, range, and stamina/stamina regen. In Dust everything is a factor when doing the math with percentage based bonuses/mods/skills, bonuses are not added with mods/skills they are each their OWN factor. Here is Amarr stats. Profile: 31.5 , Range: 24m , Stamina 295.3125, Stamina Regen 52.5. Gal stats. Profile 23.625 , Range 30m, Stamina 210, Stamina Regen 31.5. Alright, I also want to include 1 Proto Dampener, Range Amplifier, and Cardiac Regulator mod. Amarr. Profile: 23.625 , Range 34.8m, Stamina 590.625 , Stamina Regen 105. Gal. Pofile: 17.71875 , Range 43.5 , Stamina 420 , Stamina Regen 63. In perspective: Amarr has 33% higher profile, 20% less range, has about 40% more stamina, with 67% better regen. The Amarr bonus and base stamina yields more advantage than the Gal bonus in terms of percent. Just for kicks I'm going to change Amarr bonus to a complex Regulator, 100% more stamina and regen, and do the calculations. No mod just bonus: Stamina 472.5 , Stamina Regen 84. With a pro regulator. Stamina 945 (OMG) , Stamina regen 168. In perspective Amarr would now have 125% (2.25x) more stamina and 169% (2.69x) more regen over the Gal. Now we see why they were not given a free complex Regulator as a bonus.
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 620	Posted - 2014.01.20 13:01:00 - [38] - Quote Galvan, now factor in the speed of the suit. "Pulvis et umbra sumus. (We are but dust and shadow.)" GÇò Horace, The Odes of Horace
Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1506	Posted - 2014.01.20 13:11:00 - [39] - Quote Scan range is 20m btw, so Amarr would have 30m range and Gallente 37.5m. Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament. Go Go Power Rangers!
Master Smurf Nos Nothi 8	Posted - 2014.01.20 14:31:00 - [40] - Quote The same way I'm jealous of the Amarr stamina and 4 low slots, I am jealous of the Gallente +3 rep and 4 low slots. On paper the Gal Scout just seems extremely good for many situations. - Personally I think they should lose the rep or a low slot but we will see how it goes. "Shine bright like a diamond" - God's Light and Love make me dazzle

Aisha Ctarl Pradox One Proficiency V. 2937	Posted - 2014.01.20 14:42:00 - [41] - Quote Galvan Nized wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Galvan Nized wrote: I never said it justified the weaker bonus. Original Post mentions how the Gal is faster and Aero mentions the inherent armor regen. I merely brought up the fact Amarr does indeed have some advantages over the Gal. I said they were balanced UNTIL you look at bonus, not that they are balanced in general. I was merely putting the bonuses on the table in context too. Well exactly, all the racial base stats have something over each other. Amarr has a little more HP and stamina, but Gallente has a little more speed and regen for example. That's why when discussing the balance of racial bonuses you should not bring up the base stats. Base stats get balanced with base stats Racial bonuses get balanced with racial bonuses Okay I want to put bonuses into further context just so everyone gets a better idea. Assuming max skilled Dampening, Range Amplifying, Biotics skill, and scout skill. Focusing solely on profile, range, and stamina/stamina regen. In Dust everything is a factor when doing the math with percentage based bonuses/mods/skills, bonuses are not added with mods/skills they are each their OWN factor. Here is Amarr stats. Profile: 31.5 , Range: 24m , Stamina 295.3125, Stamina Regen 52.5. Gal stats. Profile 23.625 , Range 30m, Stamina 210, Stamina Regen 31.5. Alright, I also want to include 1 Proto Dampener, Range Amplifier, and Cardiac Regulator mod. Amarr. Profile: 23.625 , Range 34.8m, Stamina 590.625 , Stamina Regen 105. Gal. Pofile: 17.71875 , Range 43.5 , Stamina 420 , Stamina Regen 63. In perspective: Amarr has 33% higher profile, 20% less range, has about 40% more stamina, with 67% better regen. The Amarr bonus and base stamina yields more advantage than the Gal bonus in terms of percent. Just for kicks I'm going to change Amarr bonus to a complex Regulator, 100% more stamina and regen, and do the calculations. No mod just bonus: Stamina 472.5 , Stamina Regen 84. With a pro regulator. Stamina 945 (OMG) , Stamina regen 168. In perspective Amarr would now have 125% (2.25x) more stamina and 169% (2.69x) more regen over the Gal. Now we see why they were not given a free complex Regulator as a bonus. Based on these stats here, this confirms how I viewed the Amarr scout coming about as a LIGHT ASSAULT and not truly a scout. The Amarr scout really comes off this way because it can be tanked like an assault suit (current 1.7 Amarr Assault suit at least), and it get some scout like benefits, but when put on paper, the scout like qualities don't really jump out at you, all that is apparent is that this will be an awesome suit for someone who wants an assault/scout hybrid. Aisha Ctarl for CPM1
True Adamance Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 5963	Posted - 2014.01.20 17:35:00 - [42] - Quote Meee One wrote: Amarr scouts DO get 2 bonuses: -max stamina -stamina regen You're so used to seeing a cardiac regulator you count them as one. There is no other module that boosts 2 things at once. Amarr scouts advantage will be distance and endurance. Which is accurate to the race,stop begging your supposed to have pride as an amarrian...unless you have no faith. You would justify giving each scout suit a complex module, and a secondary bonus by saying the Amarr have two bonuses, in terms of wording, each equivalent to half a single cardiac regulator.? No Meee One, I appreciate your imput, but no matter how you spin it the Gal, Cal, and Min get two separate, unique bonuses, each to a single aspect of their suit, the primary bonus equivalent to a single complex module or better, while the other affects one other single aspect of the suit. Gallente - Profile Dampening ( better than Complex) and Scan Radius Caldari- Scan Precision (Better than Complex) and Scan Radius Minmatar- Code Breaking (Complex) and Nova Knife Damage Amarr- Cardiac Regulator (which is equivalent to a standard Cardiac Regulator) (( and applies a bonus to both Stamina and Stamina Recharge)) What you are suggesting is that we get half a complex modules worth of bonus which comparatively is still unacceptable. "My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity."
pseudosnipre 570	Posted - 2014.01.20 17:45:00 - [43] - Quote CCP development plan for scouts: 1. Release racial suit in crippled form 2. Wait 1 year while users rage quit 3. Poll remaining few and implement their suggestions 4. Bask in resultant praise I hope you stick it out that long. o7 Also, CCP knows the Amarr RPers will skill into it regardless... Today is the sort of day where the sun only comes up to humiliate you.
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 1680	Posted - 2014.01.20 17:49:00 - [44] - Quote pseudosnipre wrote: CCP development plan for scouts: 1. Release racial suit in crippled form 2. Wait 1 year while users rage quit 3. Poll remaining few and implement their suggestions 4. Bask in resultant praise I hope you stick it out that long. o7 Also, CCP knows the Amarr RPers will skill into it regardless... Yea your right but it still doesn't justify why we got the short end of the stick and got thrown over the boat. "The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein
ALPHA DECRIPTER Dragon-Empire 679	Posted - 2014.01.20 20:06:00 - [45] - Quote pseudosnipre wrote: CCP development plan for scouts: 1. Release racial suit in crippled form 2. Wait 1 year while users rage quit 3. Poll remaining few and implement their suggestions 4. Bask in resultant praise I hope you stick it out that long. o7 Also, CCP knows the Amarr RPers will skill into it regardless... Well CCP did ask how to proceed. Bandaid now and fix later? Do nothing now and make complete fix later? (There was a 3rd option but can't remember) Most said to just go ahead and release what they have now. That being said, yea, things will change again further down the road. Scout Tactician Dance puppets, DANCE!
ALPHA DECRIPTER Dragon-Empire 679	Posted - 2014.01.20 20:20:00 - [46] - Quote Been thinking about the bonuses and the scout roles that can be filled by them. C-Scout: heightened awareness would make him great for recon. (Sniper, defense, preemptive assault) G-Scout: Low profile allows him to go undetected so he could be a great defensive asset(prevent the enemy from hacking points) as well as an aggressive saboteur(kill hackers and remove enemy equipment). M-Scout: Obviously the hacker. You should be rushing the objectives (just try not to be seen). A-Scout: Endurance allows him to get around a little quicker plus defenses make him a great saboteur (hacking and killing behind enemy lines) Huh, my go-to set is a G-scout hacker but now I kinda think I wanna spec into M-Scouts Scout Tactician Dance puppets, DANCE!


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