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[Request] Limit the H slot to weapons with the H tag

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Sgt Buttscratch 1344	Posted - 2014.01.19 16:21:00 - [1] - Quote Too many fail ass player running heavy suits with RR/AR/CR/SCR as a crutch to hide terrible gun play. ***** getting old. The heavy frame should be a Heavy weapon specialist ONLY, if they wish to run the light weapons then they need to skill into commando. This should be the main point that defines a commando apart from other heavy frames. I stick my weiner in two buns and and then give it the gas Sour cream from my spleen into Levi jeans
LEHON Xeon Pradox XVI Proficiency V. 86	Posted - 2014.01.19 16:25:00 - [2] - Quote Sgt Buttscratch wrote: Too many fail ass player running heavy suits with RR/AR/CR/SCR as a crutch to hide terrible gun play. ***** getting old. The heavy frame should be a Heavy weapon specialist ONLY, if they wish to run the light weapons then they need to skill into commando. This should be the main point that defines a commando apart from other heavy frames. Yes, I'm sick of that also. Fatsuits with RR in a building is what I hate the most. Necrophillia: That Uncontrollable Urge To Crack Open A Cold One.
Hoover Damn H.A.R.V.E.S.T. Legacy Rising 13	Posted - 2014.01.19 16:36:00 - [3] - Quote You can't be serious. It's a perfectly legitimate use of a fatsuit. Are you just upset because you died when you weren't able to shred somebody slower than you in a tenth of a second?
Sgt Buttscratch 1344	Posted - 2014.01.19 16:40:00 - [4] - Quote Hoover Damn wrote: You can't be serious. It's a perfectly legitimate use of a fatsuit. Are you just upset because you died when you weren't able to shred somebody slower than you in a tenth of a second? when it comes to situations when speed is not a factor, it is then someone hiding behind **** ton of EHP. I know people will defend their fatsuit use, that is because people will always try protect their crutches, this is the typical behaviour of a fail with no gun game. today via message a fatty told me that he switched to his crutch suit becuase I killed his proto logi slayer..... This is someone prooving that this is simply a crutch for players with poor poor gungame. I stick my weiner in two buns and and then give it the gas Sour cream from my spleen into Levi jeans
Shadow Archeus OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 236	Posted - 2014.01.19 16:46:00 - [5] - Quote Delicious tears........... But seriously if there were more heavy weapons I'd be OK with this....as it stands the fg has been nerfed to be completely innefective against infantry and the hmg only reaches out to 50m I believe.......and even then it does almost no damage......so medium range engagements heavies would be totally worthless
Skihids Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2715	Posted - 2014.01.19 16:49:00 - [6] - Quote Again with the "balance by eliminating options" mentality... We will end up with one suit and one gun if CCP enacted every requested limit on the forms.
Sole Fenychs Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 67	Posted - 2014.01.19 16:57:00 - [7] - Quote Skihids wrote: Again with the "balance by eliminating options" mentality... We will end up with one suit and one gun if CCP enacted every requested limit on the forms. And a limit of one LAV per week.
Artificer Ghost Learning Coalition College 1039	Posted - 2014.01.19 17:09:00 - [8] - Quote I'd be cool with this if there was as much variety in Heavy Weapons (And sidearms) as there is in Light Weapons. Until then, you're basically giving the ultimate nerf to heavies, by making them completely obsolete outside of 50m or so? ~Art, CEO and DoE at Learning Coalition College, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition Maken Tosch = 1000th Like!
Sgt Buttscratch 1345	Posted - 2014.01.19 17:10:00 - [9] - Quote Skihids wrote: Again with the "balance by eliminating options" mentality... We will end up with one suit and one gun if CCP enacted every requested limit on the forms. No this is balancing with logic based around the fact it says "H" on that slot not "W" for whatever, trying to define roles in this game will go a long way in balancing, half the issue is roles are not roles, which removes any and all tactics when it comes to forming a squad or team. I know you have coined you little term there and are browsing the forums to spin it for us all to see, but sometimes you have to look at the game as a whole. Which might require eliminating some options to open other up. I stick my weiner in two buns and and then give it the gas Sour cream from my spleen into Levi jeans
Sgt Buttscratch 1345	Posted - 2014.01.19 17:17:00 - [10] - Quote Artificer Ghost wrote: I'd be cool with this if there was as much variety in Heavy Weapons (And sidearms) as there is in Light Weapons. Until then, you're basically giving the ultimate nerf to heavies, by making them completely obsolete outside of 50m or so? They are not designed for seige over range, they are base defense or surge assault, other people on the field are there to protect their heavies at the longer ranges. I stick my weiner in two buns and and then give it the gas Sour cream from my spleen into Levi jeans

Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1605	Posted - 2014.01.19 17:26:00 - [11] - Quote Sgt Buttscratch wrote: Artificer Ghost wrote: I'd be cool with this if there was as much variety in Heavy Weapons (And sidearms) as there is in Light Weapons. Until then, you're basically giving the ultimate nerf to heavies, by making them completely obsolete outside of 50m or so? They are not designed for seige over range, they are base defense or surge assault, other people on the field are there to protect their heavies at the longer ranges. On the contrary, Heavies are more designed for area denial. This can be achieved at any number of ranges, may it be short (HMG) or Long (Laser when it was decent). The fact that Heavies are so slow means that they're not going to be very useful for much more than point defense. If a long range heavy weapon is ever introduced, what will you guys do then? Say that heavies cant use it because its unfair? 1.8 Analysis - Sentinel Damage Efficiency Calcs
Sgt Buttscratch 1345	Posted - 2014.01.19 17:33:00 - [12] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Sgt Buttscratch wrote: Artificer Ghost wrote: I'd be cool with this if there was as much variety in Heavy Weapons (And sidearms) as there is in Light Weapons. Until then, you're basically giving the ultimate nerf to heavies, by making them completely obsolete outside of 50m or so? They are not designed for seige over range, they are base defense or surge assault, other people on the field are there to protect their heavies at the longer ranges. On the contrary, Heavies are more designed for area denial. This can be achieved at any number of ranges, may it be short (HMG) or Long (Laser when it was decent). The fact that Heavies are so slow means that they're not going to be very useful for much more than point defense. If a long range heavy weapon is ever introduced, what will you guys do then? Say that heavies cant use it because its unfair? I will accept that weapon, it's a heavy weapon. Area denial yes, their area being >50m for HMG and whatever the FG is. As it stands right now there is absolutley no diversity in this game, scouts with AR's, mediums with AR's, commandos with AR's, heavies with AR's. I do agree more heavy weapons are needed, 1 anti infantry, 1 AV with partial infantry use after this amount of time is not good. And will become more aparent when the new heavy sets are introduced. Hiding a lack of development behind what a heavy can currently do is not a good fix. I stick my weiner in two buns and and then give it the gas Sour cream from my spleen into Levi jeans
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1606	Posted - 2014.01.19 17:59:00 - [13] - Quote Sgt Buttscratch wrote: I will accept that weapon, it's a heavy weapon. Area denial yes, their area being >50m for HMG and whatever the FG is. As it stands right now there is absolutley no diversity in this game, scouts with AR's, mediums with AR's, commandos with AR's, heavies with AR's. I do agree more heavy weapons are needed, 1 anti infantry, 1 AV with partial infantry use after this amount of time is not good. And will become more aparent when the new heavy sets are introduced. Hiding a lack of development behind what a heavy can currently do is not a good fix. A friend and I were thinking of heavy weapons last night, mine was a crazy assed laser cannon, that uses a heavier lazer beam to connect to the enemy then sends orb like pulses down the beam for epic damage, I was calling for bout 120m range on the ****. The range heavies can use atm is not my concern, its just the annoyance of having someone outclassed, but they win out due to a crutch amount of HP. I understand your frustration, it was a point of complaint back in the MAG days when we would *** about "fatsuits" running around with insane HP and shotguns. However saying you cant put 10 pounds of gold into a 15 pound bag really isn't good idea though. I mean sure a heavy can strap on a Rail Rifle (Which I will admit could use some tweaking but thats a different discussion) and have long range capabilities. However they're not going to be nearly as effective as the HMG which now dominates close range point defense. They still have to give up something in order to gain something else, and I think that's a fair tradeoff. Is it kinda dirty? Yeah kinda, but this is also New Eden where you're supposed to have the freedom to do stuff like that. Hell I've seen large ships in EVE equip small weapons in order to counter smaller ships. That's just part of the universe, and while frustrating at times, I don't think it should be removed. As for diversity...yeah we need some rebalance of how weapons operate in relation to one another and we need more heavy weapons, but again that's a different discussion PS. Before anyone accuses me of being a heavy with a light weapon, I exclusively use the HMG for my anti-infantry fit because that thing is beastly. 1.8 Analysis - Sentinel Damage Efficiency Calcs
Arx Ardashir Imperium Aeternum 419	Posted - 2014.01.19 18:13:00 - [14] - Quote LEHON Xeon wrote: Yes, I'm sick of that also. Fatsuits with RR in a building is what I hate the most. You'd rather face an HMG inside a building? Why's that? Here you can type your bio.
Spartan MK420 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 87	Posted - 2014.01.19 18:21:00 - [15] - Quote I agree. (After more heavy weapons come out of course) But until then, nothing will be more enjoyable than mowing down proto suits in a completely blueprinted dren fat suit with an adv rail rifle and complex dmg mod. 18k >150k (insert tears here) Unofficial D.A.R.K.L.E.G.I.O.N team mascot.
Asha Starwind VEXALATION CORPORATION Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage 206	Posted - 2014.01.19 18:37:00 - [16] - Quote Arx Ardashir wrote: LEHON Xeon wrote: Yes, I'm sick of that also. Fatsuits with RR in a building is what I hate the most. You'd rather face an HMG inside a building? Why's that? Yes, because you actually have a chance to run away. Quote: Sgt Buttscratch wrote: They are not designed for seige over range, they are base defense or surge assault, other people on the field are there to protect their heavies at the longer ranges. So I'm guessing what you don't want is for them to have automatic fire over range, as the forge gun can OHKO and has a superior range than the rifles. but the forge gun is relatively much less accurate and very difficult to hit drop suits running around unless they're moving very predictably or coming straight at you.
Arx Ardashir Imperium Aeternum 420	Posted - 2014.01.19 19:22:00 - [17] - Quote Asha Starwind wrote: Arx Ardashir wrote: [You'd rather face an HMG inside a building? Why's that? Yes, because you actually have a chance to run away. I think that says more about the RR than it does about heavies using light weapons, if the RR is scarier in a closed corridor than an HMG is. Here you can type your bio.
Suanar Daranaus Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 122	Posted - 2014.01.19 19:23:00 - [18] - Quote If they would give Heavy's as many choices in 'H' heavy weapons as Assaults have in 'L' light weapons, then why not
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5449	Posted - 2014.01.19 19:26:00 - [19] - Quote Sgt Buttscratch wrote: Hoover Damn wrote: You can't be serious. It's a perfectly legitimate use of a fatsuit. Are you just upset because you died when you weren't able to shred somebody slower than you in a tenth of a second? when it comes to situations when speed is not a factor, it is then someone hiding behind **** ton of EHP. I know people will defend their fatsuit use, that is because people will always try protect their crutches, this is the typical behaviour of a fail with no gun game. today via message a fatty told me that he switched to his crutch suit becuase I killed his proto logi slayer..... This is someone prooving that this is simply a crutch for players with poor poor gungame. When it comes to situations where speed is not a factor, make speed a factor. Everyone has strengths and weaknesses, the trick it to engage on terms that favor your strengths. And if you can't make speed a factor, then fit a heavy suit yourself. Limiting heavies to just heavy weapons is ridiculous and completely unnecessary. There are ways to counter, find them. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Sgt Buttscratch 1345	Posted - 2014.01.19 19:39:00 - [20] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Sgt Buttscratch wrote: Hoover Damn wrote: You can't be serious. It's a perfectly legitimate use of a fatsuit. Are you just upset because you died when you weren't able to shred somebody slower than you in a tenth of a second? when it comes to situations when speed is not a factor, it is then someone hiding behind **** ton of EHP. I know people will defend their fatsuit use, that is because people will always try protect their crutches, this is the typical behaviour of a fail with no gun game. today via message a fatty told me that he switched to his crutch suit becuase I killed his proto logi slayer..... This is someone prooving that this is simply a crutch for players with poor poor gungame. When it comes to situations where speed is not a factor, make speed a factor. Everyone has strengths and weaknesses, the trick it to engage on terms that favor your strengths. And if you can't make speed a factor, then fit a heavy suit yourself. Limiting heavies to just heavy weapons is ridiculous and completely unnecessary. There are ways to counter, find them. Heavies are not limited to heavy weapons they have the commando.... thats their light weapon alternate. Whats ridiculous is saying "then fit a heavy suit yourself." I stick my weiner in two buns and and then give it the gas Sour cream from my spleen into Levi jeans

Derpty Derp Derpty Derp Derr Deerrr 1	Posted - 2014.01.19 19:43:00 - [21] - Quote Everyone saying heavys have no long range weapon, clearly just aren't good with the forge gun, I can easily hit a moving target at near maximum range with it... Limiting to only heavy weapons in heavy slots wouldn't bother me in the slightest... But seems pointless as being able to sprint aroud with a railgun is much better than slowing walking with it.
Hoover Damn H.A.R.V.E.S.T. Legacy Rising 14	Posted - 2014.01.19 19:45:00 - [22] - Quote You might want to consider not charging headlong towards a heavy suit like a nub. You will die, and you'll deserve it.
shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon 1352	Posted - 2014.01.19 19:48:00 - [23] - Quote I will agree only when CCP will give to them new weapons. Play only with 2 kind of weapons for more than 1 year it's boring. 1.8 it's so secret that nobody know what will be in it, even after patch notes...
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5463	Posted - 2014.01.19 20:32:00 - [24] - Quote Sgt Buttscratch wrote: Heavies are not limited to heavy weapons they have the commando.... thats their light weapon alternate. Whats ridiculous is saying "then fit a heavy suit yourself." Let me be more precise, Sentinels should be able to hold light weapons. And is that ridiculous? To me, it's the same thing as if an HAV rolls up and you're still sitting in an assault fit trying to take it down. Maybe not you have to change, but your team has to have enough pieces to counter what the enemy brings to the field. The only situations where speed perhaps wouldn't be a factor is an indoor area with a choke point, so why should you be able to dominate that area with a medium suit instead of a sentinel, even if that sentinel is using a light weapon? Every other situation I can think of you can make speed a factor and easily counter the sentinel without needing to match it. And in that case, if the sentinel wants to take you down someone on his team needs to have a speedy (relatively) assault player, so it goes both ways. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Scalesdini BlackWater Liquidations INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 250	Posted - 2014.01.19 20:46:00 - [25] - Quote I find it amusing that everyone thinks the problem in the "heavy with RR" combination as it is now is the heavy, not the RR, and let's be honest - even the ones who didn't flat out specifically mention that are complaining about that, because nobody's ever given a ** about a heavy with a GEK and nobody's putting CR's on a fatsuit. Protip: The RR part is the stupid part. Fix the RR, and you'll see less heavies carrying it. You'll see less brick tank logis (which have more hp than most heavies, btw) carrying it as well. Funny nobody's talking about those in this thread when they're more ridiculous than heavies since lolarmorreppingnanohives. When we have 8+ different heavy weapons, I'll be on board with the limiting heavies to heavy weapons. Until then, no. I say this as someone who only** uses HMG, btw.
Sgt Buttscratch 1345	Posted - 2014.01.19 21:14:00 - [26] - Quote Hoover Damn wrote: OP might want to consider not charging headlong towards a heavy suit like a nub. You will die, and you'll deserve it. Hoover damn might want to consider shutting off the flow of blood to this part of his head, NO WHERE in my post do I say, hey when ever i charge head first at a heavy with a light weapon he seems to shoot me.... As for the RR, its not just the RR, people are trying to distort my post, re directing it to their issue, i don't care what AR varient it is, it cheap, bull **** and removes all tactic game, heavies can't fight at range if their light weapons were removed due to HMG's range, is this not by design? heavy should be able to have close quarter, choke point, medium range and longe range? Rather than accepting they chose a role which limits parts of the game, but they excel in other parts... The whole issue is, trying to balance classes versus each other will remain broken, until classes become defined. Giving every one the same fire power but letting others have 100's more HP whilst doing so is broken logic, clearly. I stick my weiner in two buns and and then give it the gas Sour cream from my spleen into Levi jeans
Scalesdini BlackWater Liquidations INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 251	Posted - 2014.01.19 21:19:00 - [27] - Quote Sgt Buttscratch wrote: heavies can't fight at range if their light weapons were removed due to HMG's range, is this not by design? Obviously not since heavies can, in fact, equip light weapons. /thread
Ulysses Knapse Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm 1083	Posted - 2014.01.19 21:20:00 - [28] - Quote Sgt Buttscratch wrote: Too many fail ass player running heavy suits with RR/AR/CR/SCR as a crutch to hide terrible gun play. ***** getting old. The heavy frame should be a Heavy weapon specialist ONLY, if they wish to run the light weapons then they need to skill into commando. This should be the main point that defines a commando apart from other heavy frames. No. If heavy dropsuits aren't using heavy weapons, blame the heavy weapon and not the heavy dropsuit. What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage? The pile of garbage is more lethal.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 871	Posted - 2014.01.19 21:26:00 - [29] - Quote This is only an issue because of AA. When movement mattered in gunplay then a heavy with a light weapon was on a massive disadvantage... Now that we can track targets indiscriminately between heavy to scout.. there isn't a massive difference in the suit speeds anymore. One of the main Premise most people enjoyed and created interesting gunplay in DUST, The fact that a scout was going to be hard to hit, a medium frame slightly easier and a heavy frame extremely easy... It just isn't that way anymore. Welcome to how AA fundamentally changed DUST step 1.
Beld Errmon The Southern Legion 1238	Posted - 2014.01.19 21:32:00 - [30] - Quote If you think its bad now wait till the new heavy suits come out with their improved bonuses, heavies will be the next FOTM.



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