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The actual shield/armor imbalance...

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Midas Fool Black Phoenix Mercenaries Legacy Rising 318	Posted - 2014.01.19 08:55:00 - [1] - Quote ...lies in the choice between basic/reactive plates/reps versus shield regulators. Guess which is the clear choice? Currently the extra EHP plates/reps offer far outweighs the tiny reduction in recharge delay, especially at basic level. The solution? Buff shield regulators. Make them much more effective (10/2025 -> 20/35/50) or give some extra shields (maybe 10/20/30). Honestly one or the other would suffice. Extenders are fine, rechargers/energizers might need a slight fitting cost reduction. Regs need some fixing. Thoughts? +25 Kill Assist...+25 Kill Assist...+25 Kill Assist...NO HOW WHY
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 4064	Posted - 2014.01.19 09:03:00 - [2] - Quote I know I shouldn't agree with this for reasons vets already know but what the hell. +1 Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 4 STB-Infantry (Demolition)
8213 0uter.Heaven Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 1376	Posted - 2014.01.19 09:03:00 - [3] - Quote Shield tanking is hard to fit as well. The regulator really only shaves fractions of seconds off delays. I use them because its just what I know. Maybe switch the regulator to high-slot and recharger to low-slot? Shield tanking still works. Fish in a bucket!
devonus durga P.L.A.N. B 120	Posted - 2014.01.19 09:04:00 - [4] - Quote Been my biggest complaint since I rolled caldari. Why do I need to sacrifice a low slot to maximize my shields, when the gallente can stack all their armor with no bloody need to waste high slots, allowing Bette tanking and the addition of damage mods Newbiest newberry to ever spawn a 10 page Debate
Midas Fool Black Phoenix Mercenaries Legacy Rising 321	Posted - 2014.01.19 09:08:00 - [5] - Quote Sinboto Simmons wrote: I know I shouldn't agree with this for reasons vets already know but what the hell. +1 I wish I had been on the forums in closed beta so I could have 4000 likes. I was playing EVE at the time. What do vets already know? +25 Kill Assist...+25 Kill Assist...+25 Kill Assist...NO HOW WHY
Bunny Demon The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 66	Posted - 2014.01.19 09:13:00 - [6] - Quote With a 50% reduction to recharge delay per module wouldn't you be able to get above a 100% reduction with 3? (stacking penalties) Won't that mean you would have no shield recharge delay So.....when are the um......new dropsuits coming out CCP.....it's been a few weeks now.... ;)
King of Ghosts Nos Nothi 9	Posted - 2014.01.19 09:28:00 - [7] - Quote Midas Fool wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: I know I shouldn't agree with this for reasons vets already know but what the hell. +1 I wish I had been on the forums in closed beta so I could have 4000 likes. I was playing EVE at the time. What do vets already know? I got here in 1.1 2k likes ain't hard to get in that time. Just post a lot. And be nice. I am most definitely, maybe, probably, possibly, PERHAPS, Ghost Kaisar. Or not....
Ghost Kaisar Titans of Phoenix Legacy Rising 2062	Posted - 2014.01.19 09:28:00 - [8] - Quote King of Ghosts wrote: Midas Fool wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: I know I shouldn't agree with this for reasons vets already know but what the hell. +1 I wish I had been on the forums in closed beta so I could have 4000 likes. I was playing EVE at the time. What do vets already know? I got here in 1.1 2k likes ain't hard to get in that time. Just post a lot. And be nice. This is me. Dang Alts Nothing says "F**K YOU!" like a direct Flaylock to the face. Minmatar. In Rust we trust.
Lonegnr Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 50	Posted - 2014.01.19 09:33:00 - [9] - Quote devonus durga wrote: ...Why do I need to sacrifice a low slot to maximize my shields, when the gallente can stack all their armor with no bloody need to waste high slots, allowing Bette tanking and the addition of damage mods The irony factor maybe? Eve side it's the shield tankers that benefit from damage mods not using the same slots as the tank mods and the armor tankers lose a damage mod slot with each tank mod.
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5399	Posted - 2014.01.19 09:33:00 - [10] - Quote I can get behind this. Shield regulators are quite underwhelming in their current form, and I don't like the idea of buffing shield HP values because then their becomes less differentiating factors between armor and shield. If you buff shield regulators, then shield users will be more of the hit and run soldiers weaving in and out of cover quickly regenerating HP while armor users will be as they currently are holding the line. Bunny Demon wrote: With a 50% reduction to recharge delay per module wouldn't you be able to get above a 100% reduction with 3? (stacking penalties) Won't that mean you would have no shield recharge delay No. Say your shield delay is 10 seconds. Add a 50% reduction, now it is 5 seconds. Add another 50% reduction (ignoring stacking penalty), now it is 2.5 seconds, not 0 seconds. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open

NK Scout Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 13	Posted - 2014.01.19 09:39:00 - [11] - Quote Bunny Demon wrote: With a 50% reduction to recharge delay per module wouldn't you be able to get above a 100% reduction with 3? (stacking penalties) Won't that mean you would have no shield recharge delay That would be a 2 second delay Balanced
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 618	Posted - 2014.01.19 11:29:00 - [12] - Quote nerf basic plates instead. "Pulvis et umbra sumus. (We are but dust and shadow.)" GÇò Horace, The Odes of Horace
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 2092	Posted - 2014.01.19 11:36:00 - [13] - Quote This argument is just as stupid as comparing damage mods to shield extenders. Oh look i "only" get +10% damage but a shield extender gives me +66HP. You are comparing 2 different modules and advocating dualtanking with plates and shield extenders. What comes next? You compare biotics with armor repairs? Just down right stupid. Shield tankers have profile dampeners, shield regulators and the option to get more stamina/speed out of their suit. While armor tanked suits are getting slower with increased HP but can aswell fit damage mods to overcome this drawback. Never underestimate enhanced mobility or staying off grid from scanners. I shall show you a world, a world which you cant imagine, a world full off butthurt n00bs at the other end of my gun
NK Scout Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 15	Posted - 2014.01.19 11:40:00 - [14] - Quote the servers are still down
Jammeh McJam New Age Empire. 66	Posted - 2014.01.19 11:44:00 - [15] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: This argument is just as stupid as comparing damage mods to shield extenders. Oh look i "only" get +10% damage but a shield extender gives me +66HP. You are comparing 2 different modules and advocating dualtanking with plates and shield extenders. What comes next? You compare biotics with armor repairs? Just down right stupid. Shield tankers have profile dampeners, shield regulators and the option to get more stamina/speed out of their suit. While armor tanked suits are getting slower with increased HP but can aswell fit damage mods to overcome this drawback. Never underestimate enhanced mobility or staying off grid from scanners. Stamina and speed mean nothing with the aim assist "We may be small and disorganized, but we're still gonna rape you" - Intergalactic Super Friends
Spademan The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 573	Posted - 2014.01.19 11:45:00 - [16] - Quote Midas Fool wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: I know I shouldn't agree with this for reasons vets already know but what the hell. +1 I wish I had been on the forums in closed beta so I could have 4000 likes. I was playing EVE at the time. What do vets already know? That shield tankers used to be nigh-invulnerable. Wasnt that long ago really, just by the open beta and maybe a bit after, Shields were the obvious choice then. I am part shovel, part man, full scout, and a little bit special.
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 2887	Posted - 2014.01.19 14:24:00 - [17] - Quote The real shield/armour imbalance is those with shields playing like they have armour. No.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 8038	Posted - 2014.01.19 14:25:00 - [18] - Quote As the Lenin of the armoured ex-proletariat, I approve of this thread. Level 8 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2027	Posted - 2014.01.19 14:36:00 - [19] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: This argument is just as stupid as comparing damage mods to shield extenders. Oh look i "only" get +10% damage but a shield extender gives me +66HP. You are comparing 2 different modules and advocating dualtanking with plates and shield extenders. What comes next? You compare biotics with armor repairs? Just down right stupid. Shield tankers have profile dampeners, shield regulators and the option to get more stamina/speed out of their suit. While armor tanked suits are getting slower with increased HP but can aswell fit damage mods to overcome this drawback. Never underestimate enhanced mobility or staying off grid from scanners. Someone who understands! "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1602	Posted - 2014.01.19 14:42:00 - [20] - Quote Standard Armour Plates - Fine Standard Repper Plates - Fine Ferroscale Plates - Fine Reactive Plates - Need a buff - 44/66/88 HP \| 1/2/3 HP/s \| 1/3/5 % Speed Penalty Shield Extenders - Fine Shield Recharges - Fine Shield Energizers - Reduce costs a little Shield Regulators - 25/35/45 % Shield Recharge Delay 30/40/50% Shield Depleted Recharge Delay Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1

Yoma Carrim Situation Normal all fraked up 266	Posted - 2014.01.19 14:50:00 - [21] - Quote Midas Fool wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: I know I shouldn't agree with this for reasons vets already know but what the hell. +1 I wish I had been on the forums in closed beta so I could have 4000 likes. I was playing EVE at the time. What do vets already know? Broken as all shield recharge delay that's what we know. Think of a time when less then half your bullets even registered hitting, your target would duck behind cover for half a second and be back a full shields. It wasn't to that extreme but it was pretty bad. When you turn a corner and find the entire enemy team.Oh Heck Logi, Tanker, Heavy
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 8041	Posted - 2014.01.19 14:51:00 - [22] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Standard Armour Plates - Fine Standard Repper Plates - Fine Ferroscale Plates - Fine Reactive Plates - Need a buff - 44/66/88 HP \| 1/2/3 HP/s \| 1/3/5 % Speed Penalty Shield Extenders - Fine Shield Recharges - Fine Shield Energizers - Reduce costs a little Shield Regulators - 25/35/45 % Shield Recharge Delay 30/40/50% Shield Depleted Recharge Delay Mostly agreed, but if you lowered the fitting costs for the energizers compared to the rechargers there would be no reason at all to use a recharger over an energizer because unless you're using it on a Caldari heavy the HP difference is negligible. Level 8 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1603	Posted - 2014.01.19 15:11:00 - [23] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Standard Armour Plates - Fine Standard Repper Plates - Fine Ferroscale Plates - Fine Reactive Plates - Need a buff - 44/66/88 HP \| 1/2/3 HP/s \| 1/3/5 % Speed Penalty Shield Extenders - Fine Shield Recharges - Fine Shield Energizers - Reduce costs a little Shield Regulators - 25/35/45 % Shield Recharge Delay 30/40/50% Shield Depleted Recharge Delay Mostly agreed, but if you lowered the fitting costs for the energizers compared to the rechargers there would be no reason at all to use a recharger over an energizer because unless you're using it on a Caldari heavy the HP difference is negligible. Well you could increase the shield health penalty to 5/10/15% to make its bonuses more acute. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 8192	Posted - 2014.01.19 18:52:00 - [24] - Quote +1 Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
Midas Fool Black Phoenix Mercenaries Legacy Rising 326	Posted - 2014.01.19 19:31:00 - [25] - Quote Spademan wrote: That shield tankers used to be nigh-invulnerable. Wasnt that long ago really, just by the open beta and maybe a bit after, Shields were the obvious choice then. Ah yes this is what I figured someone had to vaguely/sarcastically say (not directed at you, Spademan). I remember when shields were overpowered. I remember the relentless armor tanker crying over it, and I remember armor being buffed and shields nerfed hard. I didn't say I wanted shields to be back to that level, but it is clear that they need a buff. I don't need to be a vet to see this. +25 Kill Assist...+25 Kill Assist...+25 Kill Assist...NO HOW WHY
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 8055	Posted - 2014.01.19 19:56:00 - [26] - Quote Midas Fool wrote: Spademan wrote: That shield tankers used to be nigh-invulnerable. Wasnt that long ago really, just by the open beta and maybe a bit after, Shields were the obvious choice then. Ah yes this is what I figured someone had to vaguely/sarcastically say (not directed at you, Spademan). I remember when shields were overpowered. I remember the relentless armor tanker crying over it, and I remember armor being buffed and shields nerfed hard. I didn't say I wanted shields to be back to that level, but it is clear that they need a buff. I don't need to be a vet to see this. Shields were never nerfed hard. A depleted shield delay penalty does not constitute a heavy nerf. Armour did, however, receive a pretty good buffing and shields need to be able to leverage their superior regen more. Level 8 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution
Midas Fool Black Phoenix Mercenaries Legacy Rising 326	Posted - 2014.01.19 19:57:00 - [27] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: This argument is just as stupid as comparing damage mods to shield extenders. Oh look i "only" get +10% damage but a shield extender gives me +66HP. You are comparing 2 different modules and advocating dualtanking with plates and shield extenders. What comes next? You compare biotics with armor repairs? Just down right stupid. Shield tankers have profile dampeners, shield regulators and the option to get more stamina/speed out of their suit. While armor tanked suits are getting slower with increased HP but can aswell fit damage mods to overcome this drawback. Never underestimate enhanced mobility or staying off grid from scanners. This is completely irrelevant. The irony is that the very thing you accuse me of doing (comparing apples to oranges) is exactly what you did. This thread is about one module versus another, not a whole slew of them. However now that you bring it up some modules do need a little bit of a boost. Unlike the situation I presented in this thread which has to do with one factor only (EHP), there is a complicated set of factors that determine if non-EHP modules are balanced or not. For instance, I would argue that it is not worth fitting Myofibril Stimulants at the moment because of the high population of players using mid-long range weapons. It is competely irrelevant to compare that module to electronics or damage mods because they rely on different factors for balance. Also I fit kincats and cardiac regs consistently. They barely make a difference with AA and CbRs but I guess they help for dodging tanks. Against competent players profile dampeners/precision enhancers mean nothing. I don't fool myself in to believing that these modules are anything but drawbacks in the current TTK environment. Finally, only the Gallente are free of dual tanking. Slot layout/TTK prohibits Amarr or Caldari mediums from reliably choosing one or the other until proto level. Minmatar are required to dual tank all the way through. I don't know how light frames work but I am fairly certain they fit basic armor plates instead of shield regulators. +25 Kill Assist...+25 Kill Assist...+25 Kill Assist...NO HOW WHY
Midas Fool Black Phoenix Mercenaries Legacy Rising 329	Posted - 2014.01.19 20:08:00 - [28] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Shields were never nerfed hard. A depleted shield delay penalty does not constitute a heavy nerf. Armour did, however, receive a pretty good buffing and shields need to be able to leverage their superior regen more. Forgive me, Gods of Semantics, for clearly I sin against you far too much. Ok, so shields received a (nice and gentle) nerf. This is flat out true. I feel as though the introduction of AA and the consistent lowering of TTK by the introduction and emphasis on extremely powerful weapons has had a much greater effect on shields feeling "nerfed" than the depleted delay. But yes, now that the raw HP potential of armor has been accentuated to counter these things the regen potential of shields should follow suit. +25 Kill Assist...+25 Kill Assist...+25 Kill Assist...NO HOW WHY
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1615	Posted - 2014.01.19 20:11:00 - [29] - Quote Midas Fool wrote: ...lies in the choice between basic/reactive plates/reps versus shield regulators. Guess which is the clear choice? Currently the extra EHP plates/reps offer far outweighs the tiny reduction in recharge delay, especially at basic level. The solution? Buff shield regulators. Make them much more effective (10/2025 -> 20/35/50) or give some extra shields (maybe 10/20/30). Honestly one or the other would suffice, although I would prefer the first option. Extenders are fine, rechargers/energizers might need a slight fitting cost reduction. Regs need some fixing. Thoughts? Sure but put armor repairers in the highs or move regulators in the lows. Shield regulators work as they are now you just want some godly regeneration that can matrix through bullets. I run a logi Minmatar mk.0 with 2 basic regs and 2 complex reps and it works wonders. Armor and Shields are not the same!
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 8057	Posted - 2014.01.19 20:14:00 - [30] - Quote Midas Fool wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Shields were never nerfed hard. A depleted shield delay penalty does not constitute a heavy nerf. Armour did, however, receive a pretty good buffing and shields need to be able to leverage their superior regen more. Forgive me, Gods of Semantics, for clearly I sin against you far too much. Ok, so shields received a (nice and gentle) nerf. This is flat out true. I feel as though the introduction of AA and the consistent lowering of TTK by the introduction and emphasis on extremely powerful weapons has had a much greater effect on shields feeling "nerfed" than the depleted delay. But yes, now that the raw HP potential of armor has been accentuated to counter these things the regen potential of shields should follow suit. I am actually a God of semantics, singular. Level 8 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution



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