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Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
1993
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Posted - 2014.01.15 19:53:00 -
[31] - Quote
Simply fix would be to restore old movement penalty for basic and enhanced plates and slightly increase complex plates.
So the new values would be:
Basic -3
Enhanced -5
Complex -8
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
5580
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Posted - 2014.01.15 19:55:00 -
[32] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:The concept I was going for was to make the difference in shield and armor on dropsuits similar to the way it operates on vehicles.
CURRENT
Shield HP
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Shield Recharge
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Armor HP
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Armor Repair
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PROPOSED
Shield HP
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Shield Recharge
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Armor HP
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Armor Repair
IIIII
You're forgetting that you MUST use at least one or two slots on armor for repair tools, and that because CPU/PG extenders are in low slots, shield suits tend to have more CPU/PG at the end than armor suits, meaning that they can get proto gear all around.
The average armor tanker HP ~ average shield tanker HP.
Yeah the ceiling is higher, around 250 HP higher, but it's not viable fits for the most part.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Tuna > Tacos
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
1525
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Posted - 2014.01.15 19:55:00 -
[33] - Quote
Ghost Kaisar wrote:I've always thought of shields and armor like this.
Shields should idealistically have around 85% of the HP compared to an armor tank. They make up for this due to their ability repair themselves at almost 2-3x the rate of armor suits. If an armor tank takes 20 seconds to fully rep, a shield tank should be able to do it in around 7-10 seconds. They pay for this in their eHP loss. They can't take as much damage, but they can recover it faaar quicker.
Armor should idealistiaclly have their full eHP (which according to the previous math, would be around 1.2x the eHP of a shield tank. This makes them FAR more durable, but they pay for it with a lack of speed and lack of passive rep.
Lets look at the base eHP values. Lets say that the armor tank has 900eHP (200 shields, 700 armor). The shield tank should have 765eHP (lets say 600 shields, 165 armor). The shield tank should rep in about a 1/3 of time an armor tank can. The armor tank should be able to hit roughly 20hp/s (reps would need a buff), and fully rep in 35s. The shield tank should fully rep in around 10 seconds.
This gives the armor tank more survivability in short term engagements, but the shield tank wins out in long term engagements.
Does this sound good to you guys?
I feel that armor on dropsuits suffers the same problem that shield vehicles faced pre-1.7. The passive HP regeneration is SO low that even though its constant and repairs while taking damage, it offers little to no added benefit. By your math, and I do like the look of it, a single complex armor repairer would rep at 7-10 HP a second making a 20hp/s shield recharge be about 2-3 times faster. With current armor repair values, even the armor repair specialists with the +25% cant push that 5HP/s to that low end 7HP/s mark.
1.8 Analysis - Sentinel Damage Efficiency Calcs
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
5580
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Posted - 2014.01.15 19:56:00 -
[34] - Quote
Ghost Kaisar wrote:I've always thought of shields and armor like this.
Shields should idealistically have around 85% of the HP compared to an armor tank. They make up for this due to their ability repair themselves at almost 2-3x the rate of armor suits. If an armor tank takes 20 seconds to fully rep, a shield tank should be able to do it in around 7-10 seconds. They pay for this in their eHP loss. They can't take as much damage, but they can recover it faaar quicker.
Armor should idealistiaclly have their full eHP (which according to the previous math, would be around 1.2x the eHP of a shield tank. This makes them FAR more durable, but they pay for it with a lack of speed and lack of passive rep.
Lets look at the base eHP values. Lets say that the armor tank has 900eHP (200 shields, 700 armor). The shield tank should have 765eHP (lets say 600 shields, 165 armor). The shield tank should rep in about a 1/3 of time an armor tank can. The armor tank should be able to hit roughly 20hp/s (reps would need a buff), and fully rep in 35s. The shield tank should fully rep in around 10 seconds.
This gives the armor tank more survivability in short term engagements, but the shield tank wins out in long term engagements.
Does this sound good to you guys?
If armor is going to have 20% more HP, shields are going to have 20% more regen.
Doesn't sound so fair now does it?
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Tuna > Tacos
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
1526
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Posted - 2014.01.15 20:07:00 -
[35] - Quote
People think Im trying to make armor equivalent to shields, but Im really not.
I'm simply stating that I feel the difference between armor plates and repairers feels TOO polarized. It should be more polarized than shields of course, but I think toning it down slightly would be best.
1.8 Analysis - Sentinel Damage Efficiency Calcs
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
5580
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Posted - 2014.01.15 20:11:00 -
[36] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:People think Im trying to make armor equivalent to shields, but Im really not.
I'm simply stating that I feel the difference between armor plates and repairers feels TOO polarized. It should be more polarized than shields of course, but I think toning it down slightly would be best.
I actually feel the opposite, HP and repair differences are meh.
They're different at STD but at PRO my Caldari and Gallente assaults are practically identical.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Tuna > Tacos
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
1526
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Posted - 2014.01.15 20:12:00 -
[37] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:People think Im trying to make armor equivalent to shields, but Im really not.
I'm simply stating that I feel the difference between armor plates and repairers feels TOO polarized. It should be more polarized than shields of course, but I think toning it down slightly would be best. I actually feel the opposite, HP and repair differences are meh. They're different at STD but at PRO my Caldari and Gallente assaults are practically identical.
Id blame that more on a failure of suit design and not on modules.
1.8 Analysis - Sentinel Damage Efficiency Calcs
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Mordecai Sanguine
What The French
274
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Posted - 2014.01.15 20:16:00 -
[38] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Setting TTK aside, as I think most agree damage output is a little nuts right now....so assume for a second that damage of weapons is reduced... How would you all feel about seeing a general reduction in the HP that modules give, and a significant increase to the effectiveness of modules that regenerate HP faster....particularly Armor Repair modules? Right now Armor Plate HP is so high, and repair tool rate is so high, that Armor Repair Modules are very limited in their usefulness. How would you all feel about reducing Armor Plate HP and increasing Armor Repair rate? And yes I understand that shields need work, but set that aside and look at how armor is operating right now  Essentially CURRENT Shield HP |||||||||||||||||||||| Shield Recharge |||||||||||||||||||| Armor HP |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| Armor Repair || PROPOSED Shield HP ||||||||||||||||||||||||| Shield Recharge ||||||||||||||||||||||||| Armor HP ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| Armor Repair IIIII
Armor values should just been reduced by 5-10 per level.
And armor values of Reactives/ferroscales plates should be buffed. (They already use more pG/CPU). |
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