DUST Search - Less Armor HP + Higher Repair Rate?

Ghost Kaisar wrote:

I've always thought of shields and armor like this.

Shields should idealistically have around 85% of the HP compared to an armor tank. They make up for this due to their ability repair themselves at almost 2-3x the rate of armor suits. If an armor tank takes 20 seconds to fully rep, a shield tank should be able to do it in around 7-10 seconds. They pay for this in their eHP loss. They can't take as much damage, but they can recover it faaar quicker.

Armor should idealistiaclly have their full eHP (which according to the previous math, would be around 1.2x the eHP of a shield tank. This makes them FAR more durable, but they pay for it with a lack of speed and lack of passive rep.

Lets look at the base eHP values. Lets say that the armor tank has 900eHP (200 shields, 700 armor). The shield tank should have 765eHP (lets say 600 shields, 165 armor). The shield tank should rep in about a 1/3 of time an armor tank can. The armor tank should be able to hit roughly 20hp/s (reps would need a buff), and fully rep in 35s. The shield tank should fully rep in around 10 seconds.

This gives the armor tank more survivability in short term engagements, but the shield tank wins out in long term engagements.

Does this sound good to you guys?


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1522	Posted - 2014.01.15 18:27:00 - [1] - Quote Setting TTK aside, as I think most agree damage output is a little nuts right now....so assume for a second that damage of weapons is reduced... How would you all feel about seeing a general reduction in the HP that modules give, and a significant increase to the effectiveness of modules that regenerate HP faster....particularly Armor Repair modules? Right now Armor Plate HP is so high, and repair tool rate is so high, that Armor Repair Modules are very limited in their usefulness. How would you all feel about reducing Armor Plate HP and increasing Armor Repair rate? And yes I understand that shields need work, but set that aside and look at how armor is operating right now 1.8 Analysis - Sentinel Damage Efficiency Calcs
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1523	Posted - 2014.01.15 18:37:00 - [2] - Quote Jacques Cayton II wrote: No it will make shields even less useful. You don't even read the post do you? I clearly state that I'm aware shields need work, but I'm commenting on the way armor plates and armor repairers work together. 1.8 Analysis - Sentinel Damage Efficiency Calcs
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1523	Posted - 2014.01.15 18:47:00 - [3] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: No Armor is not shields TTK is already too short, leave health as it is and give a minor nerf to the rifles as those are the only weapons killing too fast. Facepalm Why do I bother posting....I just got done saying...in the first line....that I understand TTK is too low, and that needs work, but I'm talking about the relationship between armor plates and repairers..... **** nevermind, people refuse to read. 1.8 Analysis - Sentinel Damage Efficiency Calcs
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1523	Posted - 2014.01.15 18:48:00 - [4] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: No thanks, ADS won't be able to crack armor tanks at that point, and won't even be very good as fire support. You'd just further encourage people to stack damage mods on large railguns. It's already very difficult / impossible to crack a double rep Madrugar with small railguns or even missiles, increase the rep rate anymore and the damage you deal will be healed up in the time it takes you to reload. I don't think he's talking about vehicles And Im not talk about vehicles. 1.8 Analysis - Sentinel Damage Efficiency Calcs
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1523	Posted - 2014.01.15 19:00:00 - [5] - Quote Asha Starwind wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Setting TTK aside, as I think most agree damage output is a little nuts right now....so assume for a second that damage of weapons is reduced... How would you all feel about seeing a general reduction in the HP that modules give, and a significant increase to the effectiveness of modules that regenerate HP faster....particularly Armor Repair modules? Right now Armor Plate HP is so high, and repair tool rate is so high, that Armor Repair Modules are very limited in their usefulness. How would you all feel about reducing Armor Plate HP and increasing Armor Repair rate? And yes I understand that shields need work, but set that aside and look at how armor is operating right now General Proposition: Rebalance of how HP scales with tier (STD>ADV is larger than ADV>PRO) General Decrease in Armor Plate HP Value General Increase in Armor Repair module Repair Rate (Not to exceed Passive Shield Recharge) General Increase in Shield Extender HP Value (Not to exceed Armor Plates) General Increase in Shield Regenerator bonus % Let me followed this correctly you state that TTK low as a result weapon dps is high, but since a dps nerf is pending nerf hp too? Wouldn't that put us right back where we started? It would be scaled such that the nerf to damage would be larger than the nerf to HP. Dexter307 wrote: Your changes would make armor to much like shields and less like armor Im not stating that armor repair should be nearly as high as shield recharge, but with maxed skills and the proper suit, you could get close. Shields can of course put their natural recharge even higher, but right now armor repair modules are VERY weak in comparison to how much armor HP they have. 1.8 Analysis - Sentinel Damage Efficiency Calcs
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1524	Posted - 2014.01.15 19:06:00 - [6] - Quote Bones McGavins wrote: Ill agree on hives, but not on rep tools. If anything rep tools should be increased. Id like to see dedicating yourself as a repper to a heavy, increasing the TTK on said heavy a ton if they dont deal with you first. Reducing the small amount of synergy between classes in this game is a mistake, if anything we should encourage more. While I agree, and logistics should always outclass local reps, a Militia Repair tool is what....75HP a second a now? 15 times more effective than a Complex Armor Repairer? I think the difference between local reps and repair tool should be decreased slightly. 1.8 Analysis - Sentinel Damage Efficiency Calcs
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1524	Posted - 2014.01.15 19:07:00 - [7] - Quote Assault Chileanme wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Your changes would make armor to much like shields and less like armor Im not stating that armor repair should be nearly as high as shield recharge, but with maxed skills and the proper suit, you could get close. Shields can of course put their natural recharge even higher, but right now armor repair modules are VERY weak in comparison to how much armor HP they have. I think that's the point of armor vs shields though. Armor takes forever to rep passively. That's why a basic armor plate gives more hp than a complex shield extender. Comparatively yes, I'd vote for an increase in shield recharge rate from current values as well. 1.8 Analysis - Sentinel Damage Efficiency Calcs
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1524	Posted - 2014.01.15 19:13:00 - [8] - Quote Again, comparatively low to shield regeneration. 1.8 Analysis - Sentinel Damage Efficiency Calcs
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1524	Posted - 2014.01.15 19:33:00 - [9] - Quote The concept I was going for was to make the difference in shield and armor on dropsuits similar to the way it operates on vehicles. 1.8 Analysis - Sentinel Damage Efficiency Calcs
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1525	Posted - 2014.01.15 19:55:00 - [10] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: I've always thought of shields and armor like this. Shields should idealistically have around 85% of the HP compared to an armor tank. They make up for this due to their ability repair themselves at almost 2-3x the rate of armor suits. If an armor tank takes 20 seconds to fully rep, a shield tank should be able to do it in around 7-10 seconds. They pay for this in their eHP loss. They can't take as much damage, but they can recover it faaar quicker. Armor should idealistiaclly have their full eHP (which according to the previous math, would be around 1.2x the eHP of a shield tank. This makes them FAR more durable, but they pay for it with a lack of speed and lack of passive rep. Lets look at the base eHP values. Lets say that the armor tank has 900eHP (200 shields, 700 armor). The shield tank should have 765eHP (lets say 600 shields, 165 armor). The shield tank should rep in about a 1/3 of time an armor tank can. The armor tank should be able to hit roughly 20hp/s (reps would need a buff), and fully rep in 35s. The shield tank should fully rep in around 10 seconds. This gives the armor tank more survivability in short term engagements, but the shield tank wins out in long term engagements. Does this sound good to you guys? I feel that armor on dropsuits suffers the same problem that shield vehicles faced pre-1.7. The passive HP regeneration is SO low that even though its constant and repairs while taking damage, it offers little to no added benefit. By your math, and I do like the look of it, a single complex armor repairer would rep at 7-10 HP a second making a 20hp/s shield recharge be about 2-3 times faster. With current armor repair values, even the armor repair specialists with the +25% cant push that 5HP/s to that low end 7HP/s mark. 1.8 Analysis - Sentinel Damage Efficiency Calcs

Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1526	Posted - 2014.01.15 20:07:00 - [11] - Quote People think Im trying to make armor equivalent to shields, but Im really not. I'm simply stating that I feel the difference between armor plates and repairers feels TOO polarized. It should be more polarized than shields of course, but I think toning it down slightly would be best. 1.8 Analysis - Sentinel Damage Efficiency Calcs
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1526	Posted - 2014.01.15 20:12:00 - [12] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: People think Im trying to make armor equivalent to shields, but Im really not. I'm simply stating that I feel the difference between armor plates and repairers feels TOO polarized. It should be more polarized than shields of course, but I think toning it down slightly would be best. I actually feel the opposite, HP and repair differences are meh. They're different at STD but at PRO my Caldari and Gallente assaults are practically identical. Id blame that more on a failure of suit design and not on modules. 1.8 Analysis - Sentinel Damage Efficiency Calcs