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The Robot Devil molon labe. Public Disorder. 1521	Posted - 2014.01.12 22:37:00 - [61] - Quote Gemini Reynolds wrote: Gemini Reynolds wrote: The Robot Devil wrote: Tiericide would allow proto at level one There is the wrong assumption in your argument. Try again. One more time so you see it. Again, I have an open mind and I want you to tell me what the purpose of tiericide is. If it isn't to bring all items of the same size and class closer together and easier to skill into then what is it? I still haven't seen one good description of how it should work or why, I only see "I agree" or "Tiericide needs to happen". GÇ£No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride." Hunter S. Thompson
Smooth Assassin Stardust Incorporation 700	Posted - 2014.01.12 22:37:00 - [62] - Quote Jacques Cayton II wrote: I like turtles Finally someone who agrees with me. *Assassination is my thing.*
Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 1025	Posted - 2014.01.12 22:38:00 - [63] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: Try again This week we got tha chance to sit down and talk with David Reid, CCPGÇÖs new Head of Marketing. Also, joining us on the call was the big man himself, CEO Hilmar Petrusson. David and Hilmar gave us a great look at what CCP has planned for 2012. The main title being DUST 514 as a *AAA shooter* which will integrate into the EVE Online universe, while being a completely separate experience. When talking about DUST 514 both Dave and Hilmar want people to know that CCP is putting together a Triple-A FPS for the console space. The game will have top quality weapons, vehicles, and tactical gameplay which rivals the best loved shooters out there. DUST will integrate with EVE and be part of the same persistant universe which is a unique step for MMOs. Having gameplay in DUSTGÇÖs planets impact the game universe of EVE is a major step forward in gaming. They want the feel of grunts with their futuristic guns battling it out in the universe which will work hand in hand with the space pilots flying above. Dave was very excited about the look and feel of the game. The dark future art style that has made EVE so spectacular will really shine through in the ground wars of DUST. http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/494/feature/6072/CCPs-Plans-to-Dominate-2012.html Flip back to 2009 And then they went on to promote the EVE link that was based on the stuff they talked about for EVE with the focus on the planets as sources of conflict. I never in the time I played EVE heard any mention of DUST actually being its own thing versus as support for EVE. Guess they either changed their tune or threw comflicting ideas out there. They recently changed their tune again going back to the FPS as its own thing idea. They've really had no idea how they wanted to market this thing from beginning. What us EVE players were sold on though was a companion piece to EVE that tied in with the direction they were going with PI. That was right up until they announced it would be on the Playstation. Everything went downhill from there. "In 2010, CCP updated Eve Online with the Tyrannis expansion. Tyrannis introduced planetary interaction, allowing players to harvest resources from planets using ground installations. A developer blog by CCP mentioned that, while the expansion alone would not include planetary combat, the upcoming Dust 514 game would deal with the combat aspect by allowing players to "project military force for attack and defense of planetary installations."[25] Planets in Eve Online previously held no value; the Tyrannis expansion was intended to tie into Dust 514 by giving players "a reason to want to fight over [the planets]." Rommel, you magnificent bastard, I read your book!
The Robot Devil molon labe. Public Disorder. 1521	Posted - 2014.01.12 22:38:00 - [64] - Quote Gemini Reynolds wrote: Gemini Reynolds wrote: The Robot Devil wrote: Tiericide would allow proto at level one There is the wrong assumption in your argument. Try again. One more time so you see it. One more time so you have the opportunity to describe it to me. What is tiericide and how does it work? GÇ£No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride." Hunter S. Thompson
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 812	Posted - 2014.01.12 22:44:00 - [65] - Quote Gemini Reynolds wrote: The Robot Devil wrote: Tiericide would allow proto at level one There is the wrong assumption in your argument. Try again. Bethhy wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Aero basically got the premise right there are ways to go about it though. A purist tericide would remove ALL meta levels. While this would be neat and players would grow outwards the game would be too flat for most people's liking. So generally there is a knock off version, one of lesser degree. For example the one I am currently advocating would remove basic and advanced frames and suits leaving players with prototype slot layouts as the only suit in each class entry. Then introducing two more suit entries at base classes that creating a 'tech 1' experience in which the suits are slightly skewed towards the roles but are able to fulfill many of them. Then the current tech 2 suits get an additional suit and they're heavily skewed into very specific roles.. I don't understand how he's that wrong... but meh.. RPS: How do you have persistence in a match-based game? CCP Wolfman wrote: Thomas: We have, much like EVE GÇô in fact exactly like EVE! GÇô we have different security levels. We have high security, low security, and nulsec, where anything goes. And thatGÇÖs where weGÇÖre pretty much hands off. When youGÇÖre in highsec we have NPC generated battles, so youGÇÖll always be able to find a battle, youGÇÖre able to grind and get money, but without being exposed to the depth building an infrastructure on the surface of planets, things like that. But then as you play through into the lower levels of security it starts to be about: okay, IGÇÖve got the hang of the game, IGÇÖve got a group of friends, weGÇÖve formed a corporation, and weGÇÖve got backing from some EVE members for the corporation, so weGÇÖre going to hire a war barge, weGÇÖre going to load it up with supplies, and weGÇÖre going to try to attack this location. WeGÇÖre going to get our first foothold on a planet. And that is all scheduled and controlled. Those matches are planned, and the defenders are warned in advance so they have the opportunity to defend. Once you get into that kind of game youGÇÖre making a larger commitment in terms of time to be able to defend your things. And so the more you invest, the more commitment you have to have to protect whatGÇÖs yours. But thereGÇÖs always matches rolling in highsec. Basically people think the game is to unbalanced because there are to many vet's in High Security Public matches... Purely because of lack of choice.
Sextus Hardcock 0uter.Heaven 196	Posted - 2014.01.12 22:48:00 - [66] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: Then what is tiericide? These people don't like proto suit wearing vets so they want to be able to wear proto at level one. All rifles that are junk unless they are prototype according to most. Suits have too much this or that because we can't kill them fast enought with the best gun. The HAVs are too powerful for one person to solo every time with standard AV. Noobs have no chance. These are all calls to make the game easier by care-bears who are butthurt about losing to something better or to someone better. Tiericide is: Altering the game in such a way that each suit is not simply superior in every way to the last. In EVE, they adjusted the T1 ships so that they where all actually usable in whatever situation they where designed for (scouting, mining, PvP etc) even against T2 ships. CCP found that by having tiers, everyone would simply abandon the lower tiered ships (since they sucked) and use higher ones. In DUST, Tiericide may take one of two forms. 1) Instead of STD, ADV, PROTO we would have suits that have different specialties (boost to sensor range, running speed, reload whatever) so that you could pick the suit that best worked with your playstyle and tactics. One suit wouldn't simply be better than another, just different. Similar to the interplay between Scouts, Heavies, Assualt and Logis but within each class type as well. In our current state, a rational person with an intent to win will ALWAYS wear PROTO (so long as he can afford it) The other suits on the ladder are like PROTO, only worse. This is a bad design, and its the reason that TIericide was implemented in EVE, to great success. 2) There is only one suit per class (at Tech 1, assuming CCP is following the EVE model). It is an Assault of a certain race with set slots CPU PG etc... Having more SP invested improves the suit with passive skill bonuses (like it does now). The advantage of the second form is that you don't get blapped by some chump who you just outmaneuvered and opened fire on, only to watch him turn around and melt your ****** militia suit with his blazing damage modded awesomness. It is this experience that hurts player retention as it's grossly unfair. Granted it is difficult to strike a balance between SP and player skill. Personally I like the first version better but that's just me. Hopefully that clarified the issue for you somewhat. TL;DR Tiericide can actually add diversity by making all suits tenable, not just Proto.
The Robot Devil molon labe. Public Disorder. 1522	Posted - 2014.01.12 22:49:00 - [67] - Quote Operative 1171 Aajli wrote: The Robot Devil wrote: Try again This week we got tha chance to sit down and talk with David Reid, CCPGÇÖs new Head of Marketing. Also, joining us on the call was the big man himself, CEO Hilmar Petrusson. David and Hilmar gave us a great look at what CCP has planned for 2012. The main title being DUST 514 as a *AAA shooter* which will integrate into the EVE Online universe, while being a completely separate experience. When talking about DUST 514 both Dave and Hilmar want people to know that CCP is putting together a Triple-A FPS for the console space. The game will have top quality weapons, vehicles, and tactical gameplay which rivals the best loved shooters out there. DUST will integrate with EVE and be part of the same persistant universe which is a unique step for MMOs. Having gameplay in DUSTGÇÖs planets impact the game universe of EVE is a major step forward in gaming. They want the feel of grunts with their futuristic guns battling it out in the universe which will work hand in hand with the space pilots flying above. Dave was very excited about the look and feel of the game. The dark future art style that has made EVE so spectacular will really shine through in the ground wars of DUST. http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/494/feature/6072/CCPs-Plans-to-Dominate-2012.html And then they went on to promote the EVE link that was based on the stuff they talked about for EVE with the focus on the planets as sources of conflict. I never in the time I played EVE heard any mention of DUST actually being its own thing versus as support for EVE. Guess they either changed their tune or threw comflicting ideas out there. They recently changed their tune again going back to the FPS as its own thing idea. They've really had no idea how they wanted to market this thing from beginning. What us EVE players were sold on though was a companion piece to EVE that tied in with the direction they were going with PI. That was right up until they announced it would be on the Playstation. Everything went downhill from there. From the first time I have heard them describe DUST the have always said that they wanted a game that could survive on its own without EVE. I am not saying they didn't sell it to EVE another way but I have heard CCP say several times that you can just pick the game up and play and not be worried about the EVE connection. It is all semantics and I am not too worried about that as I am about the direction this game's forums is trying to take it. I am QQing in concern not because of anything else at all. I just don't think we should pander to the lowest levels, the game should be a challenge and should reward mercs who stick with it and learn the game. I don't want to say this but I am going to anyways. New players shouldn't be able to compete with a person who has been playing for a year or two. Me, you and anyone else who has put time into this game should be rewarded with better equipment. Most of our problems stem from a low payer count and the inability to choose what difficulty battle we are placed. I can't compete with half the players I shoot at because I am a bad shot but I play to my strengths and play a support role. I don't whine about HAVs being too hard, I put on my AV suit and fight harder. I don't have the skills for prototype suits and I only have the skill for one proto weapon that I never use. I am not some noob stomping proto player, I am the most casual of casuals who enjoys challenging games. GÇ£No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride." Hunter S. Thompson
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 3402	Posted - 2014.01.12 22:52:00 - [68] - Quote Operative 1171 Aajli wrote: How about this then GÇö you're being a little *****. Your discussion is nothing but bitching in the first place. You haven't been contributing anything from the first post. Stop your epeening hardcore nerd QQ while some of us on the forums might still respect you. Don't make it so bad that you have to start posting on an alt. Don't become another Attim. Wait a second! Attim is that you? Did you already have to grab an alt? Lol I'm sorry that you disagree with what I'm saying, but please don't start this alt crap again. I had enough of that last time when everyone kept calling me DJINN Luekoplast. WTF is a Luekoplast anyway? I searched it up on Google and it lead me to one of my posts on the forums Atiim (Wyrikomi Swarm Launcher) Tank Spammer Tank Spammer (Soma - MLT 80GJ Blaster) Atiim And this is why I drink.
True Adamance Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 5602	Posted - 2014.01.12 22:54:00 - [69] - Quote Atiim wrote: Operative 1171 Aajli wrote: How about this then GÇö you're being a little ***. Your discussion is nothing but bitching in the first place. You haven't been contributing anything from the first post. Stop your epeening hardcore nerd QQ while some of us on the forums might still respect you. Don't make it so bad that you have to start posting on an alt. Don't become another Attim. Wait a second! Attim is that you? Did you already have to grab an alt? Lol I'm sorry that you disagree with what I'm saying, but please don't start this alt crap again. I had enough of that last time when everyone kept calling me DJINN Luekoplast. WTF is a Luekoplast anyway? I searched it up on Google and it lead me to one of my posts on the forums Don't know why people are hating on my boy Atiim.... He made it....don't you all get it. He made it to forum troll status. He doesn't need you people anymore, he's already better than that kind of **. "Face the enemy as a solid wall. For faith is your armour and through it, the enemy will find no breach" -Askura 10:3
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 3402	Posted - 2014.01.12 22:55:00 - [70] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: One more time so you have the opportunity to describe it to me. What is tiericide and how does it work? Wait, what? Your arguing against something that you don't even comprehend? If your are going to argue about something, at least have a slightly informed opinion of it. Even if it's biased. Better to be biased than ignorant. Though one could argue that bias and ignorance are one in the same. Atiim (Wyrikomi Swarm Launcher) Tank Spammer Tank Spammer (Soma - MLT 80GJ Blaster) Atiim And this is why I drink.

The Robot Devil molon labe. Public Disorder. 1522	Posted - 2014.01.12 22:58:00 - [71] - Quote Sextus Hardcock wrote: The Robot Devil wrote: Then what is tiericide? These people don't like proto suit wearing vets so they want to be able to wear proto at level one. All rifles that are junk unless they are prototype according to most. Suits have too much this or that because we can't kill them fast enought with the best gun. The HAVs are too powerful for one person to solo every time with standard AV. Noobs have no chance. These are all calls to make the game easier by care-bears who are butthurt about losing to something better or to someone better. Tiericide is: Altering the game in such a way that each suit is not simply superior in every way to the last. In EVE, they adjusted the T1 ships so that they where all actually usable in whatever situation they where designed for (scouting, mining, PvP etc) even against T2 ships. CCP found that by having tiers, everyone would simply abandon the lower tiered ships (since they sucked) and use higher ones. In DUST, Tiericide may take one of two forms. 1) Instead of STD, ADV, PROTO we would have suits that have different specialties (boost to sensor range, running speed, reload whatever) so that you could pick the suit that best worked with your playstyle and tactics. One suit wouldn't simply be better than another, just different. Similar to the interplay between Scouts, Heavies, Assualt and Logis but within each class type as well. In our current state, a rational person with an intent to win will ALWAYS wear PROTO (so long as he can afford it) The other suits on the ladder are like PROTO, only worse. This is a bad design, and its the reason that TIericide was implemented in EVE, to great success. 2) There is only one suit per class (at Tech 1, assuming CCP is following the EVE model). It is an Assault of a certain race with set slots CPU PG etc... Having more SP invested improves the suit with passive skill bonuses (like it does now). The advantage of the second form is that you don't get blapped by some chump who you just outmaneuvered and opened fire on, only to watch him turn around and melt your ****** militia suit with his blazing damage modded awesomness. It is this experience that hurts player retention as it's grossly unfair. Granted it is difficult to strike a balance between SP and player skill. Personally I like the first version better but that's just me. Hopefully that clarified the issue for you somewhat. TL;DR Tiericide can actually add diversity by making all suits tenable, not just Proto. that is tiericide and it works for eve because there are multiple ships of each hull size in the subcap lineup. Here we don't have any of that and therefore tiericide means making all the suits in one races size and function similar. When we have multiple asslualt suits of one race and size with different bonuses on the same level of tech then yeah tiericide would work. Right now it is a buzz word that ill informed people are using to justify sissification. GÇ£No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride." Hunter S. Thompson
The Robot Devil molon labe. Public Disorder. 1523	Posted - 2014.01.12 23:00:00 - [72] - Quote Atiim wrote: The Robot Devil wrote: One more time so you have the opportunity to describe it to me. What is tiericide and how does it work? Wait, what? Your arguing against something that you don't even comprehend? If your are going to argue about something, at least have a slightly informed opinion of it. Even if it's biased. Better to be biased than ignorant. Though one could argue that bias and ignorance are one in the same. It was a taunt to try to get a description of something. I understand tiericide, I played EVE while it happened/is happening, I read all the dev blogs and notes about it. I know what it is but I doubt most do. GÇ£No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride." Hunter S. Thompson
Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 1025	Posted - 2014.01.12 23:01:00 - [73] - Quote Atiim wrote: Operative 1171 Aajli wrote: How about this then GÇö you're being a little *****. Your discussion is nothing but bitching in the first place. You haven't been contributing anything from the first post. Stop your epeening hardcore nerd QQ while some of us on the forums might still respect you. Don't make it so bad that you have to start posting on an alt. Don't become another Attim. Wait a second! Attim is that you? Did you already have to grab an alt? Lol I'm sorry that you disagree with what I'm saying, but please don't start this alt crap again. I had enough of that last time when everyone kept calling me DJINN Luekoplast. WTF is a Luekoplast anyway? I searched it up on Google and it lead me to one of my posts on the forums I'm poking fun at you. You ended up being the whipping boy for a lot of ppl on the forums that it became a pasttime. I'm just having fun with it. Rommel, you magnificent bastard, I read your book!
The Robot Devil molon labe. Public Disorder. 1523	Posted - 2014.01.12 23:02:00 - [74] - Quote Purely because of lack of choice. This is the most descriptive sentence about our problems and the most correct. Choices are the problem, there isn't enough. GÇ£No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride." Hunter S. Thompson
Sextus Hardcock 0uter.Heaven 198	Posted - 2014.01.12 23:02:00 - [75] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: Atiim wrote: The Robot Devil wrote: One more time so you have the opportunity to describe it to me. What is tiericide and how does it work? Wait, what? Your arguing against something that you don't even comprehend? If your are going to argue about something, at least have a slightly informed opinion of it. Even if it's biased. Better to be biased than ignorant. Though one could argue that bias and ignorance are one in the same. It was a taunt to try to get a description of something. I understand tiericide, I played EVE while it happened/is happening, I read all the dev blogs and notes about it. I know what it is but I doubt most do. Thanks for me wasting my time trying to explain this **** to you. You appear to just be afraid to get rocked by a newb on even ground. sad
The Robot Devil molon labe. Public Disorder. 1523	Posted - 2014.01.12 23:05:00 - [76] - Quote Operative 1171 Aajli wrote: The Robot Devil wrote: Try again This week we got tha chance to sit down and talk with David Reid, CCPGÇÖs new Head of Marketing. Also, joining us on the call was the big man himself, CEO Hilmar Petrusson. David and Hilmar gave us a great look at what CCP has planned for 2012. The main title being DUST 514 as a *AAA shooter* which will integrate into the EVE Online universe, while being a completely separate experience. When talking about DUST 514 both Dave and Hilmar want people to know that CCP is putting together a Triple-A FPS for the console space. The game will have top quality weapons, vehicles, and tactical gameplay which rivals the best loved shooters out there. DUST will integrate with EVE and be part of the same persistant universe which is a unique step for MMOs. Having gameplay in DUSTGÇÖs planets impact the game universe of EVE is a major step forward in gaming. They want the feel of grunts with their futuristic guns battling it out in the universe which will work hand in hand with the space pilots flying above. Dave was very excited about the look and feel of the game. The dark future art style that has made EVE so spectacular will really shine through in the ground wars of DUST. http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/494/feature/6072/CCPs-Plans-to-Dominate-2012.html Flip back to 2009 And then they went on to promote the EVE link that was based on the stuff they talked about for EVE with the focus on the planets as sources of conflict. I never in the time I played EVE heard any mention of DUST actually being its own thing versus as support for EVE. Guess they either changed their tune or threw conflicting ideas out there. They recently changed their tune again going back to the FPS as its own thing idea. They've really had no idea how they wanted to market this thing from beginning. What us EVE players were sold on though was a companion piece to EVE that tied in with the direction they were going with PI. That was right up until they announced it would be on the Playstation. Everything went downhill from there. "In 2010, CCP updated Eve Online with the Tyrannis expansion. Tyrannis introduced planetary interaction, allowing players to harvest resources from planets using ground installations. A developer blog by CCP mentioned that, while the expansion alone would not include planetary combat, the upcoming Dust 514 game would deal with the combat aspect by allowing players to "project military force for attack and defense of planetary installations."[25] Planets in Eve Online previously held no value; the Tyrannis expansion was intended to tie into Dust 514 by giving players "a reason to want to fight over [the planets]." I'll take that, I have never seen or heard that but 2011-12ish is when I first started hearing about DUST. I try not to go too far in the past with CCP and you probably know why. GÇ£No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride." Hunter S. Thompson
The Robot Devil molon labe. Public Disorder. 1523	Posted - 2014.01.12 23:08:00 - [77] - Quote Sextus Hardcock wrote: The Robot Devil wrote: Atiim wrote: The Robot Devil wrote: One more time so you have the opportunity to describe it to me. What is tiericide and how does it work? Wait, what? Your arguing against something that you don't even comprehend? If your are going to argue about something, at least have a slightly informed opinion of it. Even if it's biased. Better to be biased than ignorant. Though one could argue that bias and ignorance are one in the same. It was a taunt to try to get a description of something. I understand tiericide, I played EVE while it happened/is happening, I read all the dev blogs and notes about it. I know what it is but I doubt most do. Thanks for me wasting my time trying to explain this **** to you. You appear to just be afraid to get rocked by a newb on even ground. sad I know I stand no chance against anyone with a better than bad gun game. Try again. Losing a suit means nothing to me, I play for fun and I play to win the match. KDR means nothing to me. KDR=0.73 I use mostly standard suits and bpo weapons. Nice try at trolling but you failed at that aslo. GÇ£No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride." Hunter S. Thompson
Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 1025	Posted - 2014.01.12 23:11:00 - [78] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: Operative 1171 Aajli wrote: The Robot Devil wrote: Try again This week we got tha chance to sit down and talk with David Reid, CCPGÇÖs new Head of Marketing. Also, joining us on the call was the big man himself, CEO Hilmar Petrusson. David and Hilmar gave us a great look at what CCP has planned for 2012. The main title being DUST 514 as a *AAA shooter* which will integrate into the EVE Online universe, while being a completely separate experience. When talking about DUST 514 both Dave and Hilmar want people to know that CCP is putting together a Triple-A FPS for the console space. The game will have top quality weapons, vehicles, and tactical gameplay which rivals the best loved shooters out there. DUST will integrate with EVE and be part of the same persistant universe which is a unique step for MMOs. Having gameplay in DUSTGÇÖs planets impact the game universe of EVE is a major step forward in gaming. They want the feel of grunts with their futuristic guns battling it out in the universe which will work hand in hand with the space pilots flying above. Dave was very excited about the look and feel of the game. The dark future art style that has made EVE so spectacular will really shine through in the ground wars of DUST. http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/494/feature/6072/CCPs-Plans-to-Dominate-2012.html And then they went on to promote the EVE link that was based on the stuff they talked about for EVE with the focus on the planets as sources of conflict. I never in the time I played EVE heard any mention of DUST actually being its own thing versus as support for EVE. Guess they either changed their tune or threw comflicting ideas out there. They recently changed their tune again going back to the FPS as its own thing idea. They've really had no idea how they wanted to market this thing from beginning. What us EVE players were sold on though was a companion piece to EVE that tied in with the direction they were going with PI. That was right up until they announced it would be on the Playstation. Everything went downhill from there. From the first time I have heard them describe DUST the have always said that they wanted a game that could survive on its own without EVE. I am not saying they didn't sell it to EVE another way but I have heard CCP say several times that you can just pick the game up and play and not be worried about the EVE connection. It is all semantics and I am not too worried about that as I am about the direction this game's forums is trying to take it. I am QQing in concern not because of anything else at all. I just don't think we should pander to the lowest levels, the game should be a challenge and should reward mercs who stick with it and learn the game. I don't want to say this but I am going to anyways. New players shouldn't be able to compete with a person who has been playing for a year or two. Me, you and anyone else who has put time into this game should be rewarded with better equipment. Most of our problems stem from a low payer count and the inability to choose what difficulty battle we are placed. I can't compete with half the players I shoot at because I am a bad shot but I play to my strengths and play a support role. I don't whine about HAVs being too hard, I put on my AV suit and fight harder. I don't have the skills for prototype suits and I only have the skill for one proto weapon that I never use. I am not some noob stomping proto player, I am the most casual of casuals who enjoys challenging games. I DO want the new player to be able to fight ppl their own level more or less. EVE has suffered the same thing. Players already skilled up started dominating certain things so they backed off and redefined some things. This shouldn't be a game of crawling up a hill. It should be a game of ebb and flow combat. Ppl are already just leaving the matches when they tip too easily one way. THIS GAME IS NOT A REQUIREMENT IN LIFE! Therefore, no one is going to "hang in there", "get good" or "keep pushing". They are going to drop it and CCP will be the ones QQing. There is a place for mixing it up with the best suited players being tops. It's called PC. FW is for new players to join in in EVE and it should be that way for DUST. FW is an automatic kiddie form of PC. That's why the whole concept was created in the first place. There should be balanced matchmaking in pubs and FW else there will never be much of a player base. Those fights are pre defined and automatic. PC is the only thing, like null sec wars, that is totally player defined. Rommel, you magnificent bastard, I read your book!
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 813	Posted - 2014.01.12 23:12:00 - [79] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: that is tiericide and it works for eve because there are multiple ships of each hull size in the subcap lineup. Here we don't have any of that and therefore tiericide means making all the suits in one races size and function similar. When we have multiple asslualt suits of one race and size with different bonuses on the same level of tech then yeah tiericide would work. Right now it is a buzz word that ill informed people are using to justify sissification. EVE you can get more t1 cruisers, matches and engagements are not limited on size(Till extremes)... because a t1 cruiser doesn't own a t2 cruiser or really have a chance... you need a couple... Back to the same problem... but now we are very limited in the proto suit ability in the end game. And so is the new aspiring mercenary... that's why IWS says you need broad bonuses on the Tech 1 suits. Trying to specialize a new player at that stage is ..... So we are still gonna have maxed out skilled players in MUCH more limited suits that are still gonna have massive advantages over the couple month old player... changing nothing.... Wasting a month of development time changing the entire suit concept of DUST... For what?? This entire concept is a waste of time. and doesn't even make sense in matches where player counts are finite. Worst of all they are selling up and coming dust players on an idea that with these new tools they will suddenly be the best DUST player evar... You can hand a new player a program setting that gives Magnetic bullets and tracking, Big boy suits, Modules that tell you where all the red things are... It won't stop Veteran slayers from destroying them. Take the top 10 Dust players on peoples forum lists. Then take the top 10 console FPS players that have never tried DUST. Put them both in battle academy with the same brand new character creation process then put them in a match.... Time playing DUST and Experience will quickly destroy any thought of self greatness here... This is a fact we have to get our minds around. This won't fix anything and will limit and make giant cookie cutter fits... for a problem that exists by lack of systems originally designed for DUST not in place.
kneegrow face SAM-MIK 9	Posted - 2014.01.12 23:17:00 - [80] - Quote TBH I like how the game is right now, I think all the weapons/suits are fine the way they are,(although i do dislike the Slayer logi,all complex modules,proto weapon and basic, if any equipment) i also think the TTK is just fine and i also think tiericide would be a horrible idea just because PvP for a FPS should never be made easy(also there are not enough players to do it). The only thing that would help is PvE, there should be a whole bunch of different types of battles that people can earn isk and sp from.I understand this game is a work in progress and we may not get PvE for a while, but one thing that needs to be done right away, is change the battle academy into a series of PvE's that teach dumb ass people how to play this ******* dumb ass game. Mama always had a way of explaining things so I could understand them.

Shiruba Ryou molon labe. Public Disorder. 89	Posted - 2014.01.12 23:23:00 - [81] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: Gemini Reynolds Still waiting on an explanation of tiericide. It was used to make all the hulls in one size of ship and tech level flyable at level one. All t1 frigates of one race can be flow by anyone with one level in that frigate skill. It doesn't cover t2 ships ships and faction ships usually need and extra level to fly. By the example set by CCP when they invented tiericide then I should be able to use any level of suit in a frame size and type at level one skills. Please explain how I am misunderstanding this. Your in my corporation, so Ibe been ignoring you for a bit. But your level of misunderstanding is painful. Eve has a 14 day free trial. Go get it, look at the skill tree. When you make posts you also have this annoying thing where you say one thing and I'm like, "Right right you got it bro." Then your next on goes on like you completely forgot what you just said. You are correct in that went you start, you have access to a set of T1 frigate hulls giving you something to fly in place of the main ship roles. Because sp placement is important, this allows you to begin flying cheap ships and see how you like to play while training core skills. You sound like you understand this and then say, "to use any level of suit". There aren't more 'levels' in T1. T1 is T1. A taste of a role. Once you figure out how you wish to play you spent love of training time to be able to use ONE T2 role in THAT ship class. Those ship has very large bonuses geared towards one role and one role only. You can of course build it in a variety of ways. But it does those things better than other ships in it's races ship class. Diversity comes from all these ships on the same class with varying bonuses giving strength to a wide variety of modules, weapons, and equipment. The way things are now. If your not doing A, B, or C, you lose. There is no field diversity. Only diversity in the strength of A, B, or C. You really are making an argument for the lesser option man. Trust me. Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in a fucking fruit salad.
The Robot Devil molon labe. Public Disorder. 1523	Posted - 2014.01.12 23:24:00 - [82] - Quote Operative 1171 Aajli wrote: The Robot Devil wrote: Operative 1171 Aajli wrote: The Robot Devil wrote: Try again This week we got tha chance to sit down and talk with David Reid, CCPGÇÖs new Head of Marketing. Also, joining us on the call was the big man himself, CEO Hilmar Petrusson. David and Hilmar gave us a great look at what CCP has planned for 2012. The main title being DUST 514 as a *AAA shooter* which will integrate into the EVE Online universe, while being a completely separate experience. When talking about DUST 514 both Dave and Hilmar want people to know that CCP is putting together a Triple-A FPS for the console space. The game will have top quality weapons, vehicles, and tactical gameplay which rivals the best loved shooters out there. DUST will integrate with EVE and be part of the same persistant universe which is a unique step for MMOs. Having gameplay in DUSTGÇÖs planets impact the game universe of EVE is a major step forward in gaming. They want the feel of grunts with their futuristic guns battling it out in the universe which will work hand in hand with the space pilots flying above. Dave was very excited about the look and feel of the game. The dark future art style that has made EVE so spectacular will really shine through in the ground wars of DUST. http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/494/feature/6072/CCPs-Plans-to-Dominate-2012.html And then they went on to promote the EVE link that was based on the stuff they talked about for EVE with the focus on the planets as sources of conflict. I never in the time I played EVE heard any mention of DUST actually being its own thing versus as support for EVE. Guess they either changed their tune or threw comflicting ideas out there. They recently changed their tune again going back to the FPS as its own thing idea. They've really had no idea how they wanted to market this thing from beginning. What us EVE players were sold on though was a companion piece to EVE that tied in with the direction they were going with PI. That was right up until they announced it would be on the Playstation. Everything went downhill from there. From the first time I have heard them describe DUST the have always said that they wanted a game that could survive on its own without EVE. I am not saying they didn't sell it to EVE another way but I have heard CCP say several times that you can just pick the game up and play and not be worried about the EVE connection. It is all semantics and I am not too worried about that as I am about the direction this game's forums is trying to take it. I am QQing in concern not because of anything else at all. I just don't think we should pander to the lowest levels, the game should be a challenge and should reward mercs who stick with it and learn the game. I don't want to say this but I am going to anyways. New players shouldn't be able to compete with a person who has been playing for a year or two. Me, you and anyone else who has put time into this game should be rewarded with better equipment. Most of our problems stem from a low payer count and the inability to choose what difficulty battle we are placed. I can't compete with half the players I shoot at because I am a bad shot but I play to my strengths and play a support role. I don't whine about HAVs being too hard, I put on my AV suit and fight harder. I don't have the skills for prototype suits and I only have the skill for one proto weapon that I never use. I am not some noob stomping proto player, I am the most casual of casuals who enjoys challenging games. I DO want the new player to be able to fight ppl their own level more or less. EVE has suffered the same thing. Players already skilled up started dominating certain things so they backed off and redefined some things. This shouldn't be a game of crawling up a hill. It should be a game of ebb and flow combat. Ppl are already just leaving the matches when they tip too easily one way. THIS GAME IS NOT A REQUIREMENT IN LIFE! Therefore, no one is going to "hang in there", "get good" or "keep pushing". They are going to drop it and CCP will be the ones QQing. There is a place for mixing it up with the best suited players being tops. It's called PC. FW is for new players to join in in EVE and it should be that way for DUST. FW is an automatic kiddie form of PC. That's why the whole concept was created in the first place. There should be balanced matchmaking in pubs and FW else there will never be much of a player base. Those fights are pre defined and automatic. PC is the only thing, like null sec wars, that is totally player defined. I didn't say it was a requirement for life but people who are loyal and actively play should be rewarded with better things. Just because you can play the game doesn't mean that everything should be available to you at the start of the game. Null sec is a bunch of carebaers that blob smaller forces. I lived in null for a while and a majority of null sec pilots log off or dock up when a non blue shows up. I am not impressed with null sec because it isn't the wild west people make it out to be. [N]o one is going to "hang in there", "get good" or "keep pushing". They are going to drop it and CCP will be the ones QQing. If this is true then they need to shut down the DUST severs and save their money because the game will go nowhere and if you believe this then why are you still typing these posts or playing the game? GÇ£No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride." Hunter S. Thompson
The Robot Devil molon labe. Public Disorder. 1523	Posted - 2014.01.12 23:35:00 - [83] - Quote Shiruba Ryou wrote: The Robot Devil wrote: Gemini Reynolds Still waiting on an explanation of tiericide. It was used to make all the hulls in one size of ship and tech level flyable at level one. All t1 frigates of one race can be flow by anyone with one level in that frigate skill. It doesn't cover t2 ships ships and faction ships usually need and extra level to fly. By the example set by CCP when they invented tiericide then I should be able to use any level of suit in a frame size and type at level one skills. Please explain how I am misunderstanding this. Your in my corporation, so Ibe been ignoring you for a bit. But your level of misunderstanding is painful. Eve has a 14 day free trial. Go get it, look at the skill tree. When you make posts you also have this annoying thing where you say one thing and I'm like, "Right right you got it bro." Then your next on goes on like you completely forgot what you just said. You are correct in that went you start, you have access to a set of T1 frigate hulls giving you something to fly in mantra of the main ship roles. Because so placement is important, this allows you to begin flying cheap ships and see how you like to play while training core skills. You sound like you understand this and then say, "to use any level of suit". There aren't more 'levels' in T1. T1 is T1. A taste of a role. Once you figure out how you wish to play you spent love of training time to be able to use ONE T2 role in THAT ship class. Those ship has very large bonuses geared towards one role and one role only. You can of course build it in a variety of ways. But it does those things better than other ships in it's races ship class. Diversity comes from all these ships on the same class with varying bonuses giving strength to a wide variety of modules, weapons, and equipment. The way things are now. If your not doing A, B, or C, you lose. There is no field diversity. Only diversity in the strength of A, B, or C. You really are making an argument for the lesser option man. Trust me. I have been playing EVE for two years so you can keep your 14 day trial and I will offer you one for 21 days. I have been plexing both my accounts from with ISK for a while now. The problem is that there is not any other suits in the same class that performs the same role. You can be an assault or a logi and the bonuses are the same acrooss the board. There is nothing to tiericide if the tiers have only one thing in them. When people here talk about tiericide they want the suits to be more similar not perform a differnt function with different bonuses. If there was 5 assault advanced frames for each race that required an additional level to progress to the next then tiericide would be correct. We don't have that so tiericide isn't what needs to happen. We need multiple assault suits for each tier in each race that have different bonuses tied to the suit. I understand ship progression, I have level 3 mastery all the way up through BS in all Gal ships. I understand what progression is but I don't think that the community knows what is is asking for. These people want things to be more similar so that one suit is not better instead of wanting suits that allow the meta game to be played. Making suits more equal doesn't adress the problem at hand it only makes the game seem less difficult. GÇ£No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride." Hunter S. Thompson
Gemini Reynolds Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 117	Posted - 2014.01.13 00:25:00 - [84] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: Gemini Reynolds wrote: Gemini Reynolds wrote: The Robot Devil wrote: Tiericide would allow proto at level one There is the wrong assumption in your argument. Try again. One more time so you see it. One more time so you have the opportunity to describe it to me. What is tiericide and how does it work? Now that I'm back online and have read the thread through to this point I'm glad to see you're not completely inept, just thick. Also it makes me happy to see that you play and understand Eve, so I can sum up this argument in a word: Rifter You know what that is. It's a ship that a day 1 noob can fly (poorly) but in the hands of a vet can be damn fearful. What makes the difference? SP and understanding of the mechanics in the game. But OMG CAN BE FLOWN ON DAY 1! The T2 guns and tank on it aren't day 1 though, are they? Have I suddenly equalized everyone and everything? No, but I likewise have made nothing obsolete. Planned obsolescence in a continually running game (MMO) is bad design. Right now we have the WoW grind in that, once I reach proto, what's the point? There are factors in this game right now that make not a damn bit of difference to the outcome of a match. We're playing a binary game of "High Card" when many people want something more akin to Magic: the Gathering.
Shiruba Ryou molon labe. Public Disorder. 89	Posted - 2014.01.13 00:52:00 - [85] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: Shiruba Ryou wrote: [quote=The Robot Devil]Gemiat you just said. You are correct in that went you start, you have access to a set of T1 frigate hulls giving you something to fly in mantra of the main ship roles. Because so placement is important, this allows you to begin flying cheap ships and see how you like to play while training core skills. You sound like you understand this and then say, "to use any level of suit". There aren't more 'levels' in T1. T1 is T1. A taste of a role. Once you figure out how you wish to play you spent love of training time to be able to use ONE T2 role in THAT ship class. Those ship has very large bonuses geared towards one role and one role only. You can of course build it in a variety of ways. But it does those things better than other ships in it's races ship class. Diversity comes from all these ships on the same class with varying bonuses giving strength to a wide variety of modules, weapons, and equipment. The way things are now. If your not doing A, B, or C, you lose. There is no field diversity. Only diversity in the strength of A, B, or C. You really are making an argument for the lesser option man. Trust me. I have been playing EVE for two years so you can keep your 14 day trial and I will offer you one for 21 days. I have been plexing both my accounts from with ISK for a while now. The problem is that there is not any other suits in the same class that performs the same role. You can be an assault or a logi and the bonuses are the same acrooss the board. There is nothing to tiericide if the tiers have only one thing in them. When people here talk about tiericide they want the suits to be more similar not perform a differnt function with different bonuses. If there was 5 assault advanced frames for each race that required an additional level to progress to the next then tiericide would be correct. We don't have that so tiericide isn't what needs to happen. We need multiple assault suits for each tier in each race that have different bonuses tied to the suit. I understand ship progression, I have level 3 mastery all the way up through BS in all Gal ships. I understand what progression is but I don't think that the community knows what it is asking for. These people want things to be more similar so that one suit is not better instead of wanting suits that allow the meta game to be played. Making suits more equal doesn't adress the problem at hand it only makes the game seem less difficult. Ok, it sounded like you didn't. Well then I guess I'm a bit confused. IWS and a few others who do actually know what they are asking for is a suit rework that is not the StD - Proto thing we have right now, but the Tier system of EVE with the role bonus diversity. This brings suits in similarity in the sense that you don't buy advantage right out like now. A proto suit with armor and weapon mods will win in a fight between anything other than that with situational exceptions. However a T1 frigate will beat a T2 if he flies according to it's fit's strengths and plays to the "specialized" T2's disadvantages. You don't go up in specialization right now. You go straight up in over all effectiveness and sustainability. Like going from a frigate to a cruiser. But without the given playstyle differences, advantages, and disadvantages of size variation battle. With if played right, and frigate would still win in an upfront battle. If what you have an issue with is just the communities misguided understandings and desires than ignore them like the rest of the people with better things to do and Support this.it's more constructive than dealing with them. Education can only work on people who are actually interested in expanding their views. Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in a fucking fruit salad.
The Robot Devil molon labe. Public Disorder. 1523	Posted - 2014.01.13 01:04:00 - [86] - Quote You leave Magic out of this. You are correct I am not inept and I am thick. I agree with everything you said. We can fly a rifter on day one and yes a vet would mop the floor with a noob's rifter unless the pilot is as bad as me. T2 weapons are better than T1. My argument is that we don't have the tiers to do tiericide, with frigates there are mulple hulls that do different jobs or do the say thing differently, in DUST's assault class of mediums we do not have that luxury. When I look at our suit and the different tiers I see standard like a regular frig, advance as a faction and prototype more like T2. Except that they are just better versions of the last. If we compare the Wolf and a Rifter we see that the Wolf is better, almost hands down every time. Tiericide helped T1 become more inline with T2 but didn't turn the Rifter into a poor mans Wolf. The wolf is different and better but it is a totally diffent ship. It has different bonuses and less slots(other things may be diffent but I don't fly Min so I don't keep track) and more specialized. In DUST moving up in a tier only awards more slots and doesn't change the function of the ship. As players, we should want differences in suits not more of the same. When people talk about tiericide they want the suits to be even not different. They don't want more suits that have a different bonuses they want suits to be more equal so that no one has an advantage. If there were more suits in the same class bonused differently all with diffent skill levels then tiericde would be a valid argument. Until then it is bad and shouldn't be considered. GÇ£No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride." Hunter S. Thompson
The Robot Devil molon labe. Public Disorder. 1523	Posted - 2014.01.13 01:12:00 - [87] - Quote Shiruba Ryou wrote: The Robot Devil wrote: Shiruba Ryou wrote: [quote=The Robot Devil]Gemiat you just said. You are correct in that went you start, you have access to a set of T1 frigate hulls giving you something to fly in mantra of the main ship roles. Because so placement is important, this allows you to begin flying cheap ships and see how you like to play while training core skills. You sound like you understand this and then say, "to use any level of suit". There aren't more 'levels' in T1. T1 is T1. A taste of a role. Once you figure out how you wish to play you spent love of training time to be able to use ONE T2 role in THAT ship class. Those ship has very large bonuses geared towards one role and one role only. You can of course build it in a variety of ways. But it does those things better than other ships in it's races ship class. Diversity comes from all these ships on the same class with varying bonuses giving strength to a wide variety of modules, weapons, and equipment. The way things are now. If your not doing A, B, or C, you lose. There is no field diversity. Only diversity in the strength of A, B, or C. You really are making an argument for the lesser option man. Trust me. I have been playing EVE for two years so you can keep your 14 day trial and I will offer you one for 21 days. I have been plexing both my accounts from with ISK for a while now. The problem is that there is not any other suits in the same class that performs the same role. You can be an assault or a logi and the bonuses are the same acrooss the board. There is nothing to tiericide if the tiers have only one thing in them. When people here talk about tiericide they want the suits to be more similar not perform a differnt function with different bonuses. If there was 5 assault advanced frames for each race that required an additional level to progress to the next then tiericide would be correct. We don't have that so tiericide isn't what needs to happen. We need multiple assault suits for each tier in each race that have different bonuses tied to the suit. I understand ship progression, I have level 3 mastery all the way up through BS in all Gal ships. I understand what progression is but I don't think that the community knows what it is asking for. These people want things to be more similar so that one suit is not better instead of wanting suits that allow the meta game to be played. Making suits more equal doesn't adress the problem at hand it only makes the game seem less difficult. Ok, it sounded like you didn't. Well then I guess I'm a bit confused. IWS and a few others who do actually know what they are asking for is a suit rework that is not the StD - Proto thing we have right now, but the Tier system of EVE with the role bonus diversity. This brings suits in similarity in the sense that you don't buy advantage right out like now. A proto suit with armor and weapon mods will win in a fight between anything other than that with situational exceptions. However a T1 frigate will beat a T2 if he flies according to it's fit's strengths and plays to the "specialized" T2's disadvantages. You don't go up in specialization right now. You go straight up in over all effectiveness and sustainability. Like going from a frigate to a cruiser. But without the given playstyle differences, advantages, and disadvantages of size variation battle. With if played right, and frigate would still win in an upfront battle. If what you have an issue with is just the communities misguided understandings and desires than ignore them like the rest of the people with better things to do and Support this.it's more constructive than dealing with them. Education can only work on people who are actually interested in expanding their views. I am QQ about the nerf crowd and its ignorance on what should be done and how it should be done. Removing DMG mods, nerfing HAVs and other things in that vein is bad players giving bad suggestions. I place the blame on the community and in CCP design of suits and their tiers. The community only wants fairness and CCP created these suits and didn't seem to think about where the suits were going. Yeah, players are going to be mad about a suit that is vastly superior to the one they wear, if suits were slotted different and carried bonuses that allowed them to be different then I wouldn't have to rage so much GÇ£No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride." Hunter S. Thompson
Gemini Reynolds Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 118	Posted - 2014.01.13 01:14:00 - [88] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: You leave Magic out of this. You are correct I am not inept and I am thick. I agree with everything you said. We can fly a rifter on day one and yes a vet would mop the floor with a noob's rifter unless the pilot is as bad as me. T2 weapons are better than T1. My argument is that we don't have the tiers to do tiericide, with frigates there are mulple hulls that do different jobs or do the say thing differently, in DUST's assault class of mediums we do not have that luxury. When I look at our suit and the different tiers I see standard like a regular frig, advance as a faction and prototype more like T2. Except that they are just better versions of the last. If we compare the Wolf and a Rifter we see that the Wolf is better, almost hands down every time. Tiericide helped T1 become more inline with T2 but didn't turn the Rifter into a poor mans Wolf. The wolf is different and better but it is a totally diffent ship. It has different bonuses and less slots(other things may be diffent but I don't fly Min so I don't keep track) and more specialized. In DUST moving up in a tier only awards more slots and doesn't change the function of the ship. As players, we should want differences in suits not more of the same. When people talk about tiericide they want the suits to be even not different. They don't want more suits that have a different bonuses they want suits to be more equal so that no one has an advantage. If there were more suits in the same class bonused differently all with diffent skill levels then tiericde would be a valid argument. Until then it is bad and shouldn't be considered. What I am arguing, specifically, is for a greater variation in suits per race. As I said, right now the game is very binary and one-directional. High card wins and there is nothing that can beat it. So, noobs are practically useless right now. At least in a Rifter a noob can feel like they're being useful and a part of a team (See Eve Uni when war decced). Here, they are useless bullet sponges that do nothing but garner the resentment of their team and give points to the enemy (See any Blueberry thread). However..Lets say we give that same noob a lasso to slow a vet down where teammates can empty clips into said vet..Suddenly, the noob is part of the team and having fun. Their stuff is very basic, but they are capable of positively contributing, even if the vet kills them, they still helped. There is just not enough options at the moment for any sort of tactical variance of any kind. Proto is the all-singing all-dancing end-all be-all, and there are no clever tricks that can be learned to counter them other than "GO PROTO OR GTFO".
PARKOUR PRACTIONER Redline Defense Force Seekers of the Unseen 304	Posted - 2014.01.13 01:15:00 - [89] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: This community is the biggest bunch of babies I have ever seen. All half you you do is ask for things to be equal and the other half demand for SP refunds. This game is going to fail because of you, I want you to know it is your fault for being a limp noodle bunch of sissys. I can't believe some of the things on here are actually thought to be a good idea. You embarrass me as a gamer and should be ashamed of yourselves for wanting to make this game more like the other bland games out there. You are not hardcore or even medium core, you are loser whiners whom would rather cry for easy mode than try to play a game that is difficult. If this game ever become successful then it will not because of you. I am all for a nice balance but every suit is the same, every weapon is virtually identical in performance and you all still want more blandness. Stalin would be proud of you for making it equal for everyone. Losers. You are a ***** in real life that hides behind a monitor. Say it to someone's face. Dropship Surfer/Ninja Trust me, you don't WANT me to play COD multiplayer.
Shiruba Ryou molon labe. Public Disorder. 91	Posted - 2014.01.13 01:20:00 - [90] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: I am QQ about the nerf crowd and its ignorance on what should be done and how it should be done. Removing DMG mods, nerfing HAVs and other things in that vein is bad players giving bad suggestions. I place the blame on the community and in CCP design of suits and their tiers. The community only wants fairness and CCP created these suits and didn't seem to think about where the suits were going. Yeah, players are going to be mad about a suit that is vastly superior to the one they wear, if suits were slotted different and carried bonuses that allowed them to be different then I wouldn't have to rage so much Gotcha. Well now I've got a clear picture about where you're coming from and your current platform. Carry on bro-ski o7 Just don't burn yourself out on this. I'm serious. Arguing with these people is like being an Atheist in a Christian church. Nobody here has any intention of actually hearing you out, and it's better to just quit before some idiot with charisma decides for the group that you, "need to be punished in God's name". Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in a fucking fruit salad.



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