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Gemini Reynolds
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
112
|
Posted - 2014.01.12 21:27:00 -
[1] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:Ludvig Enraga wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:
All half you you do is ask for things to be equal ... for wanting to make this game more like the other bland games ... rather cry for easy mode than try to play a game that is difficult. I am all for a nice balance but every suit is the same, every weapon is virtually identical in performance and you all still want more blandness. Stalin would be proud of you for making it equal for everyone. Losers.
Asking for a balanced game is a sin. Lol, bullet proof logic. And lol again at "every weapoin is virtually idential in performance and every suit is the same". You are talking about Dust, right? Do you play scout much? How about MD? How about SG? How about knives? How about plasma cannon? If all you do is run easy mode automatic weapon in a medium suit - so yeah, it is all the same - but then you should not be the one running your mouth about calling out others on their easy mode. I am saying that all this talk of tiericide is stupid. I realized that this isn't EVE. The word tiericide comes from EVE so I use it as an example. In EVE they used tiericide to help lesson the gap between the ships in one hull size on the same tech level and it brought the T1 ships closer to T2 performance. In DUST we you want to tiericide the suits and weapons. Therefore, I infer that you want to make all suits and weapons of the same size accessable at the same SP level. We have 4 medium frames with three types of each suits in each tier. Standard, advanced and Prototype. With tiericide that would make all suits available at level one. How is that making the game different or better? Why use any suit but prototype? All the bonuses are the same for each suit in that class so why would I choose an advanced over a prototype. There are three Armarr logi suits that all do the exact same thing why use Standard? My problem is that there is no reason to use anything but protoype and with tiericide there would be no reason to even have the lesser suits unless the cost is prohibitively high and if that was the case then the same problems are going to be here still because bad players are broke and good players are rich. I want to know how tiericide helps new players, stops proto stomping or a lets older players feel like their investment of time matters.
Again you remain as wrong as a human being could possibly be. Go back to the other thread and get some knowledge shoved in your brainpan before you make yourself look all the more foolish. Your arguments are invalid. |
Gemini Reynolds
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
112
|
Posted - 2014.01.12 21:32:00 -
[2] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:Gemini Reynolds wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:Ludvig Enraga wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:
All half you you do is ask for things to be equal ... for wanting to make this game more like the other bland games ... rather cry for easy mode than try to play a game that is difficult. I am all for a nice balance but every suit is the same, every weapon is virtually identical in performance and you all still want more blandness. Stalin would be proud of you for making it equal for everyone. Losers.
Asking for a balanced game is a sin. Lol, bullet proof logic. And lol again at "every weapoin is virtually idential in performance and every suit is the same". You are talking about Dust, right? Do you play scout much? How about MD? How about SG? How about knives? How about plasma cannon? If all you do is run easy mode automatic weapon in a medium suit - so yeah, it is all the same - but then you should not be the one running your mouth about calling out others on their easy mode. I am saying that all this talk of tiericide is stupid. I realized that this isn't EVE. The word tiericide comes from EVE so I use it as an example. In EVE they used tiericide to help lesson the gap between the ships in one hull size on the same tech level and it brought the T1 ships closer to T2 performance. In DUST we you want to tiericide the suits and weapons. Therefore, I infer that you want to make all suits and weapons of the same size accessable at the same SP level. We have 4 medium frames with three types of each suits in each tier. Standard, advanced and Prototype. With tiericide that would make all suits available at level one. How is that making the game different or better? Why use any suit but prototype? All the bonuses are the same for each suit in that class so why would I choose an advanced over a prototype. There are three Armarr logi suits that all do the exact same thing why use Standard? My problem is that there is no reason to use anything but protoype and with tiericide there would be no reason to even have the lesser suits unless the cost is prohibitively high and if that was the case then the same problems are going to be here still because bad players are broke and good players are rich. I want to know how tiericide helps new players, stops proto stomping or a lets older players feel like their investment of time matters. Again you remain as wrong as a human being could possibly be. Go back to the other thread and get some knowledge shoved in your brainpan before you make yourself look all the more foolish. Your arguments are invalid. Then please tell me how I am wrong and change my mind. I am running with the assumption that the tiericide everyone thinks they want work in a similar fashion to the way it worked when the term was coined.
Here it is in terms so basic Barney couldn't break it down any further if he tried. |
Gemini Reynolds
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
112
|
Posted - 2014.01.12 22:05:00 -
[3] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:True Adamance wrote:Ludvig Enraga wrote:Bethhy wrote:it's not their fault... all this generation knows is call of duty and battlefield... They don't know FPS games on console have existed longer without AA then with... The casuals don't want a " Hardcore" game like that was ever a surprise they wanted an easy mode? When did CCP start catering to making easy games? They think if you make a kiddie pool everyone will want to play there and the rest of the game will die FFS..... Challenge? who would want that... Working and earning your rewards? nah F* that.... that's what tryhards do. Its a generation of gamers that want stuff given to them with very little player skill, little to no grind, time invested or effort. It's sad. "Yes, I am a casual player because I have a life. I just want to hop on anytime I want for 30 min and have a good game with a good score. What's wrong with that? Why do I have to compete with all you losers just to enjoy a game? I am a multifaceted individual with a busy schedule - why do I have to compete at something that I am doing for recreation?" Try arguing with this one ; ) To ppl who think that this is just 'a generation that happened to be' - you are wrong. This generation has been carefully created by mass marketing pushed by big publishers that want to fuel consummerism and endless hopping from one FOTM game to the next. I guess CCP does not see it that way to their detriment. Its not that the casual player is left out in the cold its that there actually is a surprisingly large market and desire from gamers for more hardcore game. Games that don't hold your hand, that make you work for your rewards, and that aren't easy to get into or enter into. The Souls games have a cult following for this reason. Sure a casual could play it but I would maul them mercilessly every time in PvP because I took the time to learn the mechanics, best routes, best fighting spots, etc. I want a hardcore game, that's why I play Dust, something that is hard, rewarding, and all together hard, grim, gritty, realistic, and tactical. Thanks, I am glad I am not the only one who enjoys a challenge. I hate being some QQ ranter but all this push towards diversity is disheartening, I want us to have a fun game that isn't afraid to be different or innovative, I see little innovation but I see lots of conformity to the norm.
Fix't |
Gemini Reynolds
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
114
|
Posted - 2014.01.12 22:19:00 -
[4] - Quote
You realize that absolutely no one is arguing to make the game easier, right? You're shouting, gnashing your teeth and rending your garments at an argument that doesn't exist. |
Gemini Reynolds
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
114
|
Posted - 2014.01.12 22:22:00 -
[5] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote: Tiericide would allow proto at level one
There is the wrong assumption in your argument. Try again. |
Gemini Reynolds
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
114
|
Posted - 2014.01.12 22:26:00 -
[6] - Quote
Gemini Reynolds wrote:The Robot Devil wrote: Tiericide would allow proto at level one There is the wrong assumption in your argument. Try again.
One more time so you see it. |
Gemini Reynolds
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
117
|
Posted - 2014.01.13 00:25:00 -
[7] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:Gemini Reynolds wrote:Gemini Reynolds wrote:The Robot Devil wrote: Tiericide would allow proto at level one There is the wrong assumption in your argument. Try again. One more time so you see it. One more time so you have the opportunity to describe it to me. What is tiericide and how does it work?
Now that I'm back online and have read the thread through to this point I'm glad to see you're not completely inept, just thick. Also it makes me happy to see that you play and understand Eve, so I can sum up this argument in a word:
Rifter
You know what that is. It's a ship that a day 1 noob can fly (poorly) but in the hands of a vet can be damn fearful. What makes the difference? SP and understanding of the mechanics in the game. But OMG CAN BE FLOWN ON DAY 1!
The T2 guns and tank on it aren't day 1 though, are they? Have I suddenly equalized everyone and everything? No, but I likewise have made nothing obsolete. Planned obsolescence in a continually running game (MMO) is bad design.
Right now we have the WoW grind in that, once I reach proto, what's the point? There are factors in this game right now that make not a damn bit of difference to the outcome of a match. We're playing a binary game of "High Card" when many people want something more akin to Magic: the Gathering. |
Gemini Reynolds
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
118
|
Posted - 2014.01.13 01:14:00 -
[8] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:You leave Magic out of this. You are correct I am not inept and I am thick. I agree with everything you said. We can fly a rifter on day one and yes a vet would mop the floor with a noob's rifter unless the pilot is as bad as me. T2 weapons are better than T1. My argument is that we don't have the tiers to do tiericide, with frigates there are mulple hulls that do different jobs or do the say thing differently, in DUST's assault class of mediums we do not have that luxury.
When I look at our suit and the different tiers I see standard like a regular frig, advance as a faction and prototype more like T2. Except that they are just better versions of the last. If we compare the Wolf and a Rifter we see that the Wolf is better, almost hands down every time. Tiericide helped T1 become more inline with T2 but didn't turn the Rifter into a poor mans Wolf. The wolf is different and better but it is a totally diffent ship. It has different bonuses and less slots(other things may be diffent but I don't fly Min so I don't keep track) and more specialized. In DUST moving up in a tier only awards more slots and doesn't change the function of the ship.
As players, we should want differences in suits not more of the same. When people talk about tiericide they want the suits to be even not different. They don't want more suits that have a different bonuses they want suits to be more equal so that no one has an advantage. If there were more suits in the same class bonused differently all with diffent skill levels then tiericde would be a valid argument. Until then it is bad and shouldn't be considered.
What I am arguing, specifically, is for a greater variation in suits per race. As I said, right now the game is very binary and one-directional. High card wins and there is nothing that can beat it. So, noobs are practically useless right now. At least in a Rifter a noob can feel like they're being useful and a part of a team (See Eve Uni when war decced). Here, they are useless bullet sponges that do nothing but garner the resentment of their team and give points to the enemy (See any Blueberry thread).
However..Lets say we give that same noob a lasso to slow a vet down where teammates can empty clips into said vet..Suddenly, the noob is part of the team and having fun. Their stuff is very basic, but they are capable of positively contributing, even if the vet kills them, they still helped.
There is just not enough options at the moment for any sort of tactical variance of any kind. Proto is the all-singing all-dancing end-all be-all, and there are no clever tricks that can be learned to counter them other than "GO PROTO OR GTFO". |
Gemini Reynolds
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
119
|
Posted - 2014.01.13 01:21:00 -
[9] - Quote
PARKOUR PRACTIONER wrote:
U MAD BRO?
Lessee..how to put this in proper terms...
HIM WER MAD WIT LOL BUT HE GUD NAO
lets hope my translator was working properly. |
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