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R F Gyro
Clones 4u
965
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Posted - 2014.01.11 13:51:00 -
[1] - Quote
Interesting angle on the subject.
Lets go with "AV are to tanks as Snipers are to infantry" as a starting point then.
So you have a battle with a few AV guys and a few Snipers, plus tanks and infantry. The AV neutralise some of the tanks. The Snipers neutralise some of the infantry. Sounds good so far.
Then the remaining tanks annihilate the remaining infantry.
Tanks win.
RF Gyro: 12.5% damage bonus; 10.5% rate of fire bonus
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R F Gyro
Clones 4u
967
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Posted - 2014.01.11 14:29:00 -
[2] - Quote
TheD1CK wrote:Tankers are the most powerful weapon in Dust.... fair enough
No, not fair enough. One playstyle should not be inherently stronger than others.
I'm happy for tanks to have more EHP and do more damage, but they need a significant weakness to counter it. My preferred approach is for tanks to only be at full strength when operated by a crew of 3, but there are a number of other alternatives that could work.
RF Gyro: 12.5% damage bonus; 10.5% rate of fire bonus
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R F Gyro
Clones 4u
971
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Posted - 2014.01.11 14:40:00 -
[3] - Quote
TheD1CK wrote:Clearly fair enough......
Heavy Attack Vehicle is the name if i'm not mistaken
Why choose one line of my post to quote, taking it out of context when,
I pretty much agree with you... They should do more damage (most powerful weapon in Dust)
while having a weakness to AV.... your idea of a 3 man tank almost works but
it isn't very practical as not all tankers want their seats open
No, not clearly, but I'm happy to agree to disagree.
I didn't have much to respond to in the rest of your post, and sorry if I took the line out of context: that one line seemed to stand on its own to me.
I don't mind tankers wanting to run solo. And I don't mind them having a big f'ing gun. I do mind them having as much EHP as an entire squad of proto suit users as well.
Bring your HAV in and run it solo as a "glass cannon". Invite in a couple of squad mates and switch to "crew mode" and your EHP and manoeuvrability go through the roof.
RF Gyro: 12.5% damage bonus; 10.5% rate of fire bonus
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R F Gyro
Clones 4u
983
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Posted - 2014.01.11 18:19:00 -
[4] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:lol its a tank you ******* idiot
Of course its going to have more health
...and right here we have the problem, shown in all its glory.
CCP unfortunately have to listen to people who believe that this is a valid game balance argument.
RF Gyro: 12.5% damage bonus; 10.5% rate of fire bonus
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R F Gyro
Clones 4u
1011
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Posted - 2014.01.11 22:17:00 -
[5] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:R F Gyro wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:lol its a tank you ******* idiot
Of course its going to have more health ...and right here we have the problem, shown in all its glory. CCP unfortunately have to listen to people who believe that this is a valid game balance argument. So a tank should only be on par with a heavy drop suit?
One player in a HAV should be of roughly equivalent "value" to a team as one player not in a HAV. If that is not the case the game cannot be balanced. I really can't understand why people don't get this.
RF Gyro: 12.5% damage bonus; 10.5% rate of fire bonus
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R F Gyro
Clones 4u
1014
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Posted - 2014.01.11 22:23:00 -
[6] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:R F Gyro wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:lol its a tank you ******* idiot
Of course its going to have more health ...and right here we have the problem, shown in all its glory. CCP unfortunately have to listen to people who believe that this is a valid game balance argument. So a big hulking vehicle made out of carbon fibre and god know what else which happens to be bigger than 20 heavy suits put together at least and requires a powerplant to move it let alone put stuff on and to run it because it has things on it which require hundreds of CPU and PG isnt going to have more HP than a 6man proto squad? Are you really going to expect me to believe this? A small tiny suit should be equal on HP as a tank which is as big as a house?
We are talking game balance here; Dust is not a battlefield simulator where realism is the most important factor.
Besides, I have no problem with tanks that are tougher, faster and have more firepower than infantry. I love the idea. I want to see epic fights between tanks and squads of AV specialists. However, if one side only requires 1 out of 16 players and the other requires 3 out of 16 players then there is no game balance, and the game will be broken. That's why I, personally, advocate tanks having weak "solo" and strong "crewed" modes.
RF Gyro: 12.5% damage bonus; 10.5% rate of fire bonus
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R F Gyro
Clones 4u
1038
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Posted - 2014.01.12 17:55:00 -
[7] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Game balance?
Yet you complain that a tank has more EHP than a squad of proto suits but then you say that DUST is not a battlefield simulator where realism is the most important factor yet you and all infantry are crying for this realism that 1 AV guy can solo any vehicle in the game but also ignoring that its a ******* tank which is going to have more EHP than a squad of proto suits when it weighs in a 40tonnes and is made out of steel and carbon fibre etc
So what is it going to be game balance or realism because you want the best of both worlds but only when it suits you
Huh?
Me and all infantry are crying for realism? Where on earth did you get that from? I don't speak for anyone else, but what I want is balance first, realism second.
I'm not actually convinced you understand what we mean by game balance, tbh.
RF Gyro: 12.5% damage bonus; 10.5% rate of fire bonus
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R F Gyro
Clones 4u
1038
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Posted - 2014.01.12 18:00:00 -
[8] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:You can't understand it because you don't want to. You don't understand vehicle dynamics. ThisSpend a week in tanks, maybe you'll start seeing it from our side.
I spend a lot of my time in tanks with 1.7. Not because I particularly want to, but because one tank is worth more than one dropsuit, so I'd be compromising my team's ability to win if I didn't. It is a lot of fun actually, running around blapping infantry left, right and centre, and only having to worry about coming across a better tank. If this is the way Dust is supposed to be then I'll spec into it more and work to improve my skills, because running infantry suits will be just dumb.
Anyway, please help me understand vehicle dynamics and show me why one player in a HAV can be worth more than one infantry player and this not end up with everyone wanting to run tanks?
RF Gyro: 12.5% damage bonus; 10.5% rate of fire bonus
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