DUST Search - Why change something that's already perfect? #cloak #eve

Sole Fenychs wrote:

Cody Sietz wrote:

Cause this is a FPS.

Yeah, proximity-cancelled cloak is completely ridiculous for the genre.

Seriously, stop making "Do it like EVE!" suggestions. EVE is not an FPS.

Mobius Wyvern wrote:

And being able to shoot at people while invisible is acceptable in a shooter?

Yes, absolutely.
Hell, Crysis even allowed you to cloak, decloak, fire a headshot and then recloak with a one second timeframe of visibility.
Only noobs would shoot out of cloak because that would drain your cloak energy.

Due to the way the selection wheel works in Dust, the Crysis pro method would be too cumbersome. Initiating a shot from cloak is absolutely okay. It's not worse than a head-glitching sniper somewhere around your location while you are being proto-stomped and the blueberries are sitting in your redline.
Also, it makes cloak users less careful - Many idiots will not realize that a shimmering cloak is almost as bad as no cloak. As a Crysis 3 player, I can notice an enemy from the faintest outline.

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AmlSeb Ministry of War Amarr Empire 7	Posted - 2014.01.10 22:38:00 - [1] - Quote There's a lot of anger and everything going on at the moment about how cloaking should work. I asume everyone has already seen the regarding DEV posts about it so won't explain CCPs plans. I'm just asking why you don't simply use the same mechanics EVE uses for cloaking? For everyone who's no idea how they work, here it comes: In EVE cloaking devices are actually pretty simple. You activate them and they run without any time limitation until you deactivate it or you're decloaked. Latter happens when you get closer than 2000 m to something be it a full scale station or a corpse of a pilot. The pretty much only thing that can't decloak you is another cloaked ship. While cloaked you can, well, do nothing. If you deploy something you are within 2000 m, to attack someone you need to target lock him, which does not work either. You can't activated any modules either. Then there are more drawbacks. You have a worse scan precision no matter if the cloak is active or not. While cloaked you slow as hell (sometimes -90% speed) and you can't warp, at least with regular devices. With special devices, that you can only fit on recon specialised ships, you can also warp but the 2000 m limit still counts. So usually when you leave the warp, you are decloaked. Once you decloak there are more drawbacks. During the first seconds you can't lock onto anything and you can't quickly cloak again. You have to wait a bit until it works again depending on the ship and device. This might look like a hell lot of downsides but therefore you are completely invisible for as long as you want. Thee is no glooming or anything. It's like you are not there. I hope everybody got this, if not, there's a great article about it on the EVE UNI website: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Cloaking So, CCP, why do you want to change that for dust? EVE has had it for years and it works great. My proposal for it is that you use this schematic for dust as well. You will see, that it will work great especially once intel becomes a major factor on the battlefield. There should be the two types of devices with one only for Scouts. The basic one decreases your speed drastically and you can just walk. No shooting, no sprinting, no grenade throwing, no equipment deploying, just walking. The Scout only one lets you still sprint and has less speed decrease. The speed reduction can be decreased by the device operation skill. While cloaked you can't use anything. You can't fire weapons, use equipment, grenades, not even your passive scan or repper works. Your shield does not regenerate either. But you're completely invisible to both vision and scans. Once you're closer than 3-5 meters to any object, be it a grenade, a tank or even a killed soldier that has not rusted yet, you automatically decloak. The scout skill bonus should reduce this distance. Other things that decloak you are damage. Being invisible does not mean you're invincible. If you're hit you decloak no matter if friend or foe. After you decloaked your electronical systems have to recalibrate for a few seconds at first thus yor scans, reppers, shield regenerator or any other passive device in the background won't work for a few seconds. As well starts this the cooldown timer of the device that depends on your suit and the device. It should be between 5-20 seconds. This might look nothing but don't forget that a scout usually dies within that time and is spotted often too, which should prevent cloaking again. Cheers, Aml
Lt Royal Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2412	Posted - 2014.01.10 23:18:00 - [2] - Quote This ^^ Gÿ£GÿàGÿP Subdreddit Recruitment Video Gÿ£GÿàGÿP
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 2062	Posted - 2014.01.11 01:01:00 - [3] - Quote Shoting your weapon will cause the cloak to drop allmost instantly. And you probs never heard about the covert ops cloak and stealthbombers. They can decloak, instantly lock a target and fire their weapons without restrictions and on top of that drop a bomb. I shall show you a world, a world which you cant imagine, a world full off butthurt n00bs at the other end of my gun
Grims Tooth Deadly Blue Dots RISE of LEGION 21	Posted - 2014.01.11 01:17:00 - [4] - Quote Link to the Dev post?
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 1941	Posted - 2014.01.11 01:25:00 - [5] - Quote Cause this is a FPS. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Mobius Wyvern Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4416	Posted - 2014.01.11 02:13:00 - [6] - Quote I am disgusted that this OP is not already drowning in Likes. Stop trying to reinvent the wheel. Go with what works. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 1195	Posted - 2014.01.11 03:17:00 - [7] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: I am disgusted that this OP is not already drowning in Likes. Stop trying to reinvent the wheel. Go with what works. A truer thing has never been said by a character named Mobius. Let this merc's like train begin. Fun > Realism
Aizen Intiki Hell's Gate Inc League of Infamy 659	Posted - 2014.01.11 04:11:00 - [8] - Quote 1: Getting from point a to b without getting spotted is super ***** easy in a Scout suit, which will be the only suit that fitting a cloak is viable. 2: The range thing wouldn't work as we aren't in a vaccum. We're on solid ground, and therefore always near something. 3: shooting a weapon while cloaked should turn it off either instantly or almost instantly, but we should be able to do other things like put down equipment. Hacking is solved by nature of both things. Hacking could instead of turning it off, cause shimmering, so you can sorta be seen. NULL cannons actually solves it with the blinking method, but it still should happen. "Hello, world!" lol, sounds like something a whore lover would say Alt of the great Godin I like chocolate ^___**^
Kharga Lum Xeno Labs Security 216	Posted - 2014.01.11 04:31:00 - [9] - Quote +1 However, since early Beta the forums have often had posts about "Look to Eve, they did it right." Cloaks, vehicle everything, blasters, skills that do nothing...etc etc etc. Dust has shown, every time, that they will do whatever they want.
Mobius Wyvern Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4430	Posted - 2014.01.11 06:03:00 - [10] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: Cause this is a FPS. And being able to shoot at people while invisible is acceptable in a shooter? Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector

AmlSeb Ministry of War Amarr Empire 11	Posted - 2014.01.11 08:14:00 - [11] - Quote Aizen Intiki wrote: 1: Getting from point a to b without getting spotted is super ******* easy in a Scout suit, which will be the only suit that fitting a cloak is viable. 2: The range thing wouldn't work as we aren't in a vaccum. We're on solid ground, and therefore always near something. 3: shooting a weapon while cloaked should turn it off either instantly or almost instantly, but we should be able to do other things like put down equipment. Hacking is solved by nature of both things. Hacking could instead of turning it off, cause shimmering, so you can sorta be seen. NULL cannons actually solves it with the blinking method, but it still should happen. These are good points 1. Scouts and other recon suits (soonTM) should be the main target for it. You could still fit it on an Assault and cover the Null Cannon you just hacked. With the restrictions of course. Regarding getting from a to b: If there's a good sniper and you have to go through open area he easily spots you and the you die in two hits. 2. Well, if you imagine the cloak field as an electric orelectromagnetic field it would primarily interfere with other electric currents. Given that the field coincides with your dropsuis electronic circuits current external currents would cause it to break down or at least get weaker. So low powered objects like grenades or maybe equipment would make you shimmer while high powered objects like dropsuits, vehicles or installations would decloak you. 3. It depends on the weapon. Snipers would drop it instantly which is the only one said yet. We can asume that stealthier weapons wont decloak you in the first place.
AmlSeb Ministry of War Amarr Empire 11	Posted - 2014.01.11 08:25:00 - [12] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: Shoting your weapon will cause the cloak to drop allmost instantly. And you probs never heard about the covert ops cloak and stealthbombers. They can decloak, instantly lock a target and fire their weapons without restrictions and on top of that drop a bomb. With the covert ops cloak and the recon specialised ships it's a bit different I know but these are different due to skill and role bonuses. If you want to bring all that variety to dust you first have to get a variety of dropsuits first. I chose that two bonuses because they're the most useful in dust. scan is not that important. Maybe later when we got tiercide we get an infiltrator suit with these bonuses.
Sole Fenychs Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 50	Posted - 2014.01.11 13:48:00 - [13] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: Cause this is a FPS. Yeah, proximity-cancelled cloak is completely ridiculous for the genre. Seriously, stop making "Do it like EVE!" suggestions. EVE is not an FPS. Mobius Wyvern wrote: And being able to shoot at people while invisible is acceptable in a shooter? Yes, absolutely. Hell, Crysis even allowed you to cloak, decloak, fire a headshot and then recloak with a one second timeframe of visibility. Only noobs would shoot out of cloak because that would drain your cloak energy. Due to the way the selection wheel works in Dust, the Crysis pro method would be too cumbersome. Initiating a shot from cloak is absolutely okay. It's not worse than a head-glitching sniper somewhere around your location while you are being proto-stomped and the blueberries are sitting in your redline. Also, it makes cloak users less careful - Many idiots will not realize that a shimmering cloak is almost as bad as no cloak. As a Crysis 3 player, I can notice an enemy from the faintest outline.
Cimi Nomoa Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 6	Posted - 2014.01.12 09:32:00 - [14] - Quote Sole Fenychs wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: Cause this is a FPS. Yeah, proximity-cancelled cloak is completely ridiculous for the genre. Seriously, stop making "Do it like EVE!" suggestions. EVE is not an FPS. Mobius Wyvern wrote: And being able to shoot at people while invisible is acceptable in a shooter? Yes, absolutely. Hell, Crysis even allowed you to cloak, decloak, fire a headshot and then recloak with a one second timeframe of visibility. Only noobs would shoot out of cloak because that would drain your cloak energy. Due to the way the selection wheel works in Dust, the Crysis pro method would be too cumbersome. Initiating a shot from cloak is absolutely okay. It's not worse than a head-glitching sniper somewhere around your location while you are being proto-stomped and the blueberries are sitting in your redline. Also, it makes cloak users less careful - Many idiots will not realize that a shimmering cloak is almost as bad as no cloak. As a Crysis 3 player, I can notice an enemy from the faintest outline. DUST is not Crysis. Crysis is based up on this. Crysis is a stealth shooter so this is the key feature. DUST is no shooter like any other. It should be different and have its technic and mechanics based on EVE as it is part of New Eden. Hell, If you like Crysis that much, go and troll there
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 6388	Posted - 2014.01.12 10:05:00 - [15] - Quote The reason is because this is a first person shooter. Although it would be nice to see how an Eve style cloak mechanic would handle in DUST just as an experiment. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
Emerald Bellerophon Nenikekamen 78	Posted - 2014.01.12 10:18:00 - [16] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: Shoting your weapon will cause the cloak to drop allmost instantly. And you probs never heard about the covert ops cloak and stealthbombers. They can decloak, instantly lock a target and fire their weapons without restrictions and on top of that drop a bomb. Instantly? I'm pretty sure there's a delay for locking targets.
Emerald Bellerophon Nenikekamen 78	Posted - 2014.01.12 10:19:00 - [17] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: I shall show you a world, a world which you cant imagine, a world full off butthurt n00bs at the other end of my gun Because that's what this game really needs, right?
Emerald Bellerophon Nenikekamen 78	Posted - 2014.01.12 10:30:00 - [18] - Quote Aizen Intiki wrote: 1: Getting from point a to b without getting spotted is super ***** easy in a Scout suit, which will be the only suit that fitting a cloak is viable. You sound sure. Don't be. Aizen Intiki wrote: 2: The range thing wouldn't work as we aren't in a vaccum. We're on solid ground, and therefore always near something. Like newberries. Expect ragequits this game can't afford. Aizen Intiki wrote:** 3: shooting a weapon while cloaked should turn it off either instantly or almost instantly, but we should be able to do other things like put down equipment. Hacking is solved by nature of both things. Hacking could instead of turning it off, cause shimmering, so you can sorta be seen. NULL cannons actually solves it with the blinking method, but it still should happen. Dropping equipment from a cloak? Surely, I should a cloak on a logi. Your faith would be inspiring if I had any. I wish I had yours. I don't think they should have any cloak at all. But who listens to me, anyway?
Sole Fenychs Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 51	Posted - 2014.01.12 10:51:00 - [19] - Quote Cimi Nomoa wrote: DUST is not Crysis. Crysis is based up on this. Crysis is a stealth shooter so this is the key feature. DUST is no shooter like any other. It should be different and have its technic and mechanics based on EVE as it is part of New Eden. Hell, If you like Crysis that much, go and troll there Crysis SINGLEPLAYER is a stealth shooter. Crysis multiplayer is a tactical team-based shooter, just like Dust. The biggest difference is the more detailled level layouts (which kind of prevent long-range sniping) and higher mobility of Crysis players. Cloak in Dust will be far less useful purely because your sprint isn't unlimited and you can't jump up buildings. Also, all frontliners are wallhacking anyway. The only people you can surprise are lone players and maybe HAVs. And those will likely be unable to see you even without cloak, due to the ridiculously small FOV of the game. It's mostly a tool to run across No Man's Land without getting sniped.
Galvan Nized Deep Space Republic 519	Posted - 2014.01.12 11:44:00 - [20] - Quote In Eve cloaks are meant less for battle and more as a means of safe transportation. You travel to all kinds of different places for different reasons. In Dust there is no equivalent, we aren't trekking across the battlefield just to sight see we have to engage in combat. Limiting the cloak in similar ways as Eve means the cloak would only be used to cross open fields...ie too limited to be of any worth.

ANON Cerberus Tiny Toons 9	Posted - 2014.01.12 12:13:00 - [21] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: Shoting your weapon will cause the cloak to drop allmost instantly. And you probs never heard about the covert ops cloak and stealthbombers. They can decloak, instantly lock a target and fire their weapons without restrictions and on top of that drop a bomb. Don't forget certain fits on a Cov Ops T3 can also work quite nicely - allowing true ninja style cloaked play. Also the Black Ops Battleship at least when I played could warp cloaked and had a reasonable locking time (Even if it was a big heavy BS - Hey my Sin used to move like s**t off a shovel!)
PADDEHATPIGEN BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 120	Posted - 2014.01.12 12:15:00 - [22] - Quote Kharga Lum wrote: +1 However, since early Beta the forums have often had posts about "Look to Eve, they did it right." Cloaks, vehicle everything, blasters, skills that do nothing...etc etc etc. Dust has shown, every time, that they will do whatever they want. That was what I was going to say. I always wonder why they do this.
deepfried salad gilliam Sanguine Knights 372	Posted - 2014.01.12 14:55:00 - [23] - Quote Dust is an fps not a spaceship mmo You can look at them like a set of twins,their more like cousins by marriage (by this I mean their related but barely) I believe that tgey should share similar mechanics but be willing to change them for dust the decloaking near things shouldnt be implemented think about it your always near things the dirt walls etc The no reps is another no, in eve you can find an empty plot of space or a station dust its a bit harder No cloak shooting /equipment /nades agreed no sprinting while activated agreed partially small speed penalty abd shimmer will be a thing Proud Christian one of the most essential parts of eve is left out of dust: freedom, exploration, open-world gameplay.
George Moros Area 514 273	Posted - 2014.01.12 18:25:00 - [24] - Quote AmlSeb wrote: For everyone who's no idea how they work, here it comes: In EVE cloaking devices are actually pretty simple. You activate them and they run without any time limitation until you deactivate it or you're decloaked. Latter happens when you get closer than 2000 m to something be it a full scale station or a corpse of a pilot... Actually, corpses do not decloak ships. They used to, but CCP changed this since some people used to scatter corpses around stargates and POSes to use them as decloaking "minefileds". A rather morbid, but effective practice. :) AmlSeb wrote: So, CCP, why do you want to change that for dust? EVE has had it for years and it works great. First of all, DUST is an entirely different type of game than EVE. Although I agree that DUST should be similar to EVE, as far as lore and some basic concepts work, you can't just copy every mechanic from EVE, and expect it to work just as well in DUST. Secondly, claiming that cloaking in EVE "works great" is a little exaggerated. There are still endless debates in EVE community about the cloaking mechanics, primarily concerning the infamous "AFK cloakers", and whether there should exist any kind of way to detect cloaked ships or not. Pulvereus ergo queritor.


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