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Just Say NO to the Cloaky Combat Scout.

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KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 411	Posted - 2014.01.09 19:31:00 - [1] - Quote So it seems that the direction of cloaking in this game is headed towards having a Cloaky Combat Scout. The current proposed cloaking mechanics state that cloaks are a piece of equipment, and that light weapons can be equipped on a suit with a cloak, and be fired while cloaked. Also, no scout has more than 1 equipment slot, thus the utility of performing scans or dropping links or mines behind enemy lines is an immediate impossibility. This forces the scout into a combat role. A combat role with access to rail rifles, sniper rifles, and shotguns, that can barely be detected before collecting their free kill. I donGÇÖt think that is a good addition to the game, and will be supremely frustrating and nearly un-counterable on the battlefield. Think of a ThaleGÇÖs sniper with a cloak in the redline, sniping while cloaked, and then hiding behind structures when his cloak is in cooldown. I think this is a pretty bad gameplay mistake. However, I do think that cloaking has a place in this game, not as a combat scout, but as a cloaky engineer/saboteur. In my mind, the cloaky scout role should be focused on scurrying behind enemy lines and dropping uplinks while hunting enemy uplinks. He should be able to lay minefields, he should be able run scans and report enemy movements, he should be able to sneak to an objective and hack. He should also occasionally be able to assassinate people, but not with great ease. So in addition to CCP RemnantGÇÖs list, here are my proposed changes: 1) The cloak recharges while sitting still, thus enabling longer deployments behind enemy lines. 2) The cloak should disable the equpping of light weapons. 3) The cloak should reduce the damage of sidearms by 20% 4) Scout suits should get additional equipment slots (to fit a cloak AND something useful) These changes will guide the cloaky scout out of the combat role, and into an infiltrator role. Now thereGÇÖs different ways to solve the light weapon/equipment slot problem. One is to make the cloak a Light Weapon, thus freeing up the equipment slot. The other is to increase equipment slots for all scouts. Another possible solution is to restrict cloaks to a new class of GÇ£blackopsGÇ¥ dropsuits, which will have no light weapon slot to begin with, have less HP/fitting, but have 2-3 equipment slots. I know itGÇÖs more Dev time, but I think limiting the use of a cloak to a single suit is an easier balance problem to solve than messing with the existing scout class. But thereGÇÖs many ways to skin that cat. TL;DR Cloaky Ganky Combat Scouts will ruin the game, Cloaky Sneaky Saboteurs will add to the game
Galthur CrimeWave Syndicate 197	Posted - 2014.01.09 19:39:00 - [2] - Quote Your reticle turns red when aiming at them and they glimmer while running, I see no problem killing them. Even if you can't aim your reticle will still turn red, if you can't see red or the glimmer why are you playing this game, unless scout grow wings an begin to attack you from the sky I doubt they will be a problem. Seasoned players never left academy because it did not exist, that's why we fight alongside and against noobs.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 7712	Posted - 2014.01.09 19:41:00 - [3] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: I donGÇÖt think that is a good addition to the game, and will be supremely frustrating and nearly un-counterable on the battlefield. Think of a ThaleGÇÖs sniper with a cloak in the redline, sniping while cloaked, and then hiding behind structures when his cloak is in cooldown. Additionally, Thale's snipers deep in the redline are practically invulnerable anyway. Use a scanner to counter it. They're getting buffed further in the form of the Gallogi bonus and the profile dampening on most of the scouts is being removed. Quote: So in addition to CCP RemnantGÇÖs list, here are my proposed changes: 1) The cloak recharges while sitting still, thus enabling longer deployments behind enemy lines. 2) The cloak should disable the equpping of light weapons. 3) The cloak should reduce the damage of sidearms by 20% 4) Scout suits should get additional equipment slots (to fit a cloak AND something useful) I... kind of like some of these. On one hand, you give. On the other hand, you take, and it changes the role. However, I don't think the weapon penalties need to be so draconian. One thing which we absolutely should not be able to have is firing whilst cloaked, but wrecking your weaponry whilst uncloaked seems dubious. I would prefer something more along the lines of a weapon firing delay. Although EVE is not as good a model as people think, there is a mechanic in that which does not allow you to fire your weapons for a short period after decloaking. This would prevent people from randomly instagibbing enemies from nowhere but allow the scouts to be not completely screwed if they get in a fight. Because they -will- get in a fight at some point. Everyone has to. Quote: These changes will guide the cloaky scout out of the combat role, and into an infiltrator role. It would help do that, but I'm dubious as to the value of such a thing. Ninja hacking is one role it could do, although if the point is even slightly guarded with these restrictions the scout is stuck. What else? Covert tank trapping, maybe? I think that such a role would be too niche and unused. Level 7 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution Gallente FW - 'Turalyon'
Galthur CrimeWave Syndicate 197	Posted - 2014.01.09 19:43:00 - [4] - Quote My biggest problem with the Cloak is that I want to have a Cloaked PLC fire magical balls of death at my enemies point blank but both cost high cpu/pg Seasoned players never left academy because it did not exist, that's why we fight alongside and against noobs.
TechMechMeds Swamp Marines 2007	Posted - 2014.01.09 19:43:00 - [5] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: So it seems that the direction of cloaking in this game is headed towards having a Cloaky Combat Scout. The current proposed cloaking mechanics state that cloaks are a piece of equipment, and that light weapons can be equipped on a suit with a cloak, and be fired while cloaked. Also, no scout has more than 1 equipment slot, thus the utility of performing scans or dropping links or mines behind enemy lines is an immediate impossibility. This forces the scout into a combat role. A combat role with access to rail rifles, sniper rifles, and shotguns, that can barely be detected before collecting their free kill. I donGÇÖt think that is a good addition to the game, and will be supremely frustrating and nearly un-counterable on the battlefield. Think of a ThaleGÇÖs sniper with a cloak in the redline, sniping while cloaked, and then hiding behind structures when his cloak is in cooldown. I think this is a pretty bad gameplay mistake. However, I do think that cloaking has a place in this game, not as a combat scout, but as a cloaky engineer/saboteur. In my mind, the cloaky scout role should be focused on scurrying behind enemy lines and dropping uplinks while hunting enemy uplinks. He should be able to lay minefields, he should be able run scans and report enemy movements, he should be able to sneak to an objective and hack. He should also occasionally be able to assassinate people, but not with great ease. So in addition to CCP RemnantGÇÖs list, here are my proposed changes: 1) The cloak recharges while sitting still, thus enabling longer deployments behind enemy lines. 2) The cloak should disable the equpping of light weapons. 3) The cloak should reduce the damage of sidearms by 20% 4) Scout suits should get additional equipment slots (to fit a cloak AND something useful) These changes will guide the cloaky scout out of the combat role, and into an infiltrator role. Now thereGÇÖs different ways to solve the light weapon/equipment slot problem. One is to make the cloak a Light Weapon, thus freeing up the equipment slot. The other is to increase equipment slots for all scouts. Another possible solution is to restrict cloaks to a new class of GÇ£blackopsGÇ¥ dropsuits, which will have no light weapon slot to begin with, have less HP/fitting, but have 2-3 equipment slots. I know itGÇÖs more Dev time, but I think limiting the use of a cloak to a single suit is an easier balance problem to solve than messing with the existing scout class. But thereGÇÖs many ways to skin that cat. TL;DR Cloaky Ganky Combat Scouts will ruin the game, Cloaky Sneaky Saboteurs will add to the game We'll see, I said how badly that will break the game when it was just an idea that was so soonGäó that it wasn't worth thinking about. Level 2 forum warrior. Minmatar and Gallente fw. I sold my wife and kids to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 6341	Posted - 2014.01.09 19:45:00 - [6] - Quote After thinking about it for a while, the better solution is to make it so that you HAVE to constantly hold the cloak trigger in your hand in order to maintain the cloak. If you swap to a weapon or any other item besides the trigger, you lose the cloak. Fair enough. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
Smooth Assassin Stardust Incorporation 677	Posted - 2014.01.09 19:46:00 - [7] - Quote Cloaky assault logi. Thats what you meant, if you think this is a buff to scouts then you're wrong. *Assassination is my thing.*
TechMechMeds Swamp Marines 2007	Posted - 2014.01.09 19:47:00 - [8] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: After thinking about it for a while, the better solution is to make it so that you HAVE to constantly hold the cloak trigger in your hand in order to maintain the cloak. If you swap to a weapon or any other item besides the trigger, you lose the cloak. Fair enough. Sounds good. Level 2 forum warrior. Minmatar and Gallente fw. I sold my wife and kids to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 3252	Posted - 2014.01.09 19:53:00 - [9] - Quote Galthur wrote: Your reticle turns red when aiming at them and they glimmer while running, I see no problem killing them. Even if you can't aim your reticle will still turn red, if you can't see red or the glimmer why are you playing this game, unless scout grow wings an begin to attack you from the sky I doubt they will be a problem. We better nerf that Red Bull then... CoD -----> <----- WoT Please AR and Tank scrubs, go to your respective games. Leave DUST alone!
jerrmy12 kahoalii The Phoenix Federation 296	Posted - 2014.01.09 19:55:00 - [10] - Quote Atiim wrote: Galthur wrote: Your reticle turns red when aiming at them and they glimmer while running, I see no problem killing them. Even if you can't aim your reticle will still turn red, if you can't see red or the glimmer why are you playing this game, unless scout grow wings an begin to attack you from the sky I doubt they will be a problem. We better nerf that Volcano then... Fixed I use a tablet so beware of typos

Arx Ardashir Imperium Aeternum 346	Posted - 2014.01.09 19:56:00 - [11] - Quote A lot of the OP's concerns were addressed 40 minutes later in a second post by CCP Saberwing. That's why it's best not to immediately jump to conclusions. Cloaks are limited duration. You can fire while cloaked, but each shot diminished the cloak duration, with a sniper shot immediately breaking it. So at full cloak charge, you'll only be able to do up to 209 damage (the amount for the STD sniper rifle). 209 damage isn't any different then what you can pull off by just flanking someone. it's 3 uncharged scrambler shots or 6 AR arounds (STD tier for both). On the whole equipment thing, maybe we'll see scouts back up to 2 equipment slots, like they were pre-Uprising. Amarr HAV Speculation
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 6344	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:00:00 - [12] - Quote Arx Ardashir wrote: A lot of the OP's concerns were addressed 40 minutes later in a second post by CCP Saberwing. That's why it's best not to immediately jump to conclusions. Cloaks are limited duration. You can fire while cloaked, but each shot diminished the cloak duration, with a sniper shot immediately breaking it. So at full cloak charge, you'll only be able to do up to 209 damage (the amount for the STD sniper rifle). 209 damage isn't any different then what you can pull off by just flanking someone. it's 3 uncharged scrambler shots or 6 AR arounds (STD tier for both). On the whole equipment thing, maybe we'll see scouts back up to 2 equipment slots, like they were pre-Uprising. The problem here is that scout suits barely have that much EHP. 209 is about the total sum of the shield and armor of most scouts. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 6344	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:02:00 - [13] - Quote Arx Ardashir wrote: On the whole equipment thing, maybe we'll see scouts back up to 2 equipment slots, like they were pre-Uprising. If I remember correctly, I think there is one BPO scout out there that has two equipment slots. I can't remember which. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance 824	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:05:00 - [14] - Quote Galthur wrote: Your reticle turns red when aiming at them and they glimmer while running, I see no problem killing them. Even if you can't aim your reticle will still turn red, if you can't see red or the glimmer why are you playing this game, unless scout grow wings an begin to attack you from the sky I doubt they will be a problem. coughJetPackscough "There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all." Roy Ventus
KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 411	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:49:00 - [15] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: KA24DERT wrote: I donGÇÖt think that is a good addition to the game, and will be supremely frustrating and nearly un-counterable on the battlefield. Think of a ThaleGÇÖs sniper with a cloak in the redline, sniping while cloaked, and then hiding behind structures when his cloak is in cooldown. Additionally, Thale's snipers deep in the redline are practically invulnerable anyway. Use a scanner to counter it. They're getting buffed further in the form of the Gallogi bonus and the profile dampening on most of the scouts is being removed. Thales can currently be countered by a decent sniper, or another Thale's user. This change will make them only counterable by flying a ship into the redline while scanning, then suicide dropping on them. That's a lot of ISK to take care of one sniper. Quote: Quote: So in addition to CCP RemnantGÇÖs list, here are my proposed changes: 1) The cloak recharges while sitting still, thus enabling longer deployments behind enemy lines. 2) The cloak should disable the equpping of light weapons. 3) The cloak should reduce the damage of sidearms by 20% 4) Scout suits should get additional equipment slots (to fit a cloak AND something useful) I... kind of like some of these. On one hand, you give. On the other hand, you take, and it changes the role. However, I don't think the weapon penalties need to be so draconian. One thing which we absolutely should not be able to have is firing whilst cloaked, but wrecking your weaponry whilst uncloaked seems dubious. I would prefer something more along the lines of a weapon firing delay. Although EVE is not as good a model as people think, there is a mechanic in that which does not allow you to fire your weapons for a short period after decloaking. This would prevent people from randomly instagibbing enemies from nowhere but allow the scouts to be not completely screwed if they get in a fight. Because they -will- get in a fight at some point. Everyone has to. Well that is based on my opinion that a combat cloaky scout will be game breaking, as uncloaked units can already kill people in under a second while fully visible. Having to uncloak while firing is not a sufficient nerf when a light weapon is an option. Even a targeting delay isn't enough with light weapons, since a damped rail user will happily, patiently wait for both the targeting timer and the cloak timer to run out before unleashing hell and cloaking up again. However if you remove the light weapon, and nerf the sidearm, it becomes very hard to kill someone. I think this counters the requirement that a cloaked unit must uncloak before shooting, since an assassination will only be possible on an unaware target and still require skill/stealth, and will also cause you to show up on scan and shimmer like a light show. Yes it will be hard to defend yourself. But in my opinion the penalty for getting caught as an infiltrator should be death. Quote: These changes will guide the cloaky scout out of the combat role, and into an infiltrator role. It would help do that, but I'm dubious as to the value of such a thing. Ninja hacking is one role it could do, although if the point is even slightly guarded with these restrictions the scout is stuck. What else? Covert tank trapping, maybe? I think that such a role would be too niche and unused.[/quote] This is intentional. Cloaky combat in an FPS is a frustrating thing to be a victim of. The effort for earning a tactical victory(mining a road, dropping links, hacking points) or killing a vital target (point defender) should be great, and the rewards should be just as fulfilling. Invisibility should absolutely be a niche gameplay mechanic.
Pseudogenesis Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 92	Posted - 2014.01.09 23:21:00 - [16] - Quote Galthur wrote: Your reticle turns red when aiming at them and they glimmer while running, I see no problem killing them. Even if you can't aim your reticle will still turn red, if you can't see red or the glimmer why are you playing this game, unless scout grow wings an begin to attack you from the sky I doubt they will be a problem. CCP, please drop everything and start developing a scout suit with wings. Please.
True Adamance Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 5495	Posted - 2014.01.09 23:29:00 - [17] - Quote I dont see a huge issue to this. As confirmed by a Dev the cloak will be fired initially, and will rapidly deplete and shimmer while you are rapidly moving or firing.... Once a scout begins that they likely have less than a few seconds to either kill the target or are to be killed themselves as they are not exceptionally combat worthy. I see no reason, with a scout having a moderate cool down on their cloak, that they will become an OP class or detract from their role as infiltrators....if anything I think we will see the scout role become rather popular. I know for weeks now I have been planning my ideal re skilling or future skilling and both pilot and scout, light frame, are on that list alongside Amarr HAV. My goal with the scout is a stealthy passive infiltrator role maxing the damage potential of the scout if possible, using the Amarr scouts proposed cloak cool down, in conjunction with maxed hacking skills to play the enemy's back field kill those occasional players who like to play defensively, hack, and be gone afterwards. To a Texan like you, a hero is some type of weird sandwich, not some nut who takes on three Gunlogi. Reference = ISK
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 3255	Posted - 2014.01.09 23:35:00 - [18] - Quote Galthur wrote: My biggest problem with the Cloak is that I want to have a Cloaked PLC fire magical balls of death at my enemies point blank but both cost high cpu/pg But Plasma Cannons don't even use PG. And the Cloaks are CPU intensive. Better hope that Scout fitting bonus is good enough. CoD -----> <----- WoT Please AR and Tank scrubs, go to your respective games. Leave DUST alone!
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 766	Posted - 2014.01.09 23:37:00 - [19] - Quote Bethhy wrote: Cloak is cool and has amazing potential. Just............. Dust has so many things it needs right now before this... Aiming controls and customization, Aiming feeling right at all without a band-aid AA, Map glitches STILL, Collision Mechanics overhaul... (we are still getting stuck on small hills really?), Stuck anywhere everywhere... More Game modes, Maps that make sense with multi level playability, ladders that go places, spots for snipers not in the red-line, tank fighting area's infantry fighting areas... All the Racial weapons, All racial vehicles, PC overhaul, Frame rate issues!!!!!!, Equipment spam latency and lag issues, Sound overhaul(footsteps, guns, vehicles positions, all of it is..... so important in gameplay and feel but we are stuck with very little emphasis on quality of this) Massive overhaul on guiding the NPE could make the list 3x longer if i wanted to get more depressed at the choices made to spend manhours on. while so many issues that have existed for 6 months to forever are still present. Sadface.
TunRa NEW OMENS 354	Posted - 2014.01.09 23:40:00 - [20] - Quote Except that if you shoot while cloaked you uncloak, as he said if you shoot a sniper rifle you imminently uncloak. So obviously you can fire X amount of bullets before you uncloak depending on how much damage or how loud the weapon is. Not to mention that shooting will probably still produce a muzzle flash and you will be lite up like a Christmas tree if you are shooting a rapid fire gun like a rail rifle or combat rifle. However I requested that the cloak be made into a module that I can equip on my heavy suit. Thanks CCP Foxfour

GRIM GEAR Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 150	Posted - 2014.01.09 23:41:00 - [21] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: So it seems that the direction of cloaking in this game is headed towards having a Cloaky Combat Scout. The current proposed cloaking mechanics state that cloaks are a piece of equipment, and that light weapons can be equipped on a suit with a cloak, and be fired while cloaked. Also, no scout has more than 1 equipment slot, thus the utility of performing scans or dropping links or mines behind enemy lines is an immediate impossibility. This forces the scout into a combat role. A combat role with access to rail rifles, sniper rifles, and shotguns, that can barely be detected before collecting their free kill. I donGÇÖt think that is a good addition to the game, and will be supremely frustrating and nearly un-counterable on the battlefield. Think of a ThaleGÇÖs sniper with a cloak in the redline, sniping while cloaked, and then hiding behind structures when his cloak is in cooldown. I think this is a pretty bad gameplay mistake. However, I do think that cloaking has a place in this game, not as a combat scout, but as a cloaky engineer/saboteur. In my mind, the cloaky scout role should be focused on scurrying behind enemy lines and dropping uplinks while hunting enemy uplinks. He should be able to lay minefields, he should be able run scans and report enemy movements, he should be able to sneak to an objective and hack. He should also occasionally be able to assassinate people, but not with great ease. So in addition to CCP RemnantGÇÖs list, here are my proposed changes: 1) The cloak recharges while sitting still, thus enabling longer deployments behind enemy lines. 2) The cloak should disable the equpping of light weapons. 3) The cloak should reduce the damage of sidearms by 20% 4) Scout suits should get additional equipment slots (to fit a cloak AND something useful) These changes will guide the cloaky scout out of the combat role, and into an infiltrator role. Now thereGÇÖs different ways to solve the light weapon/equipment slot problem. One is to make the cloak a Light Weapon, thus freeing up the equipment slot. The other is to increase equipment slots for all scouts. Another possible solution is to restrict cloaks to a new class of GÇ£blackopsGÇ¥ dropsuits, which will have no light weapon slot to begin with, have less HP/fitting, but have 2-3 equipment slots. I know itGÇÖs more Dev time, but I think limiting the use of a cloak to a single suit is an easier balance problem to solve than messing with the existing scout class. But thereGÇÖs many ways to skin that cat. TL;DR Cloaky Ganky Combat Scouts will ruin the game, Cloaky Sneaky Saboteurs will add to the game You seem very biased towards scouts. when it comes to the crunch other suits can use the cloak too you complete twit. It's a bird! No it's a plane! Never mind it's just my shotgun in your face!
Aizen Intiki Hell's Gate Inc League of Infamy 648	Posted - 2014.01.10 00:08:00 - [22] - Quote 1: From what Remnant said, Scouts are probably getting a second eq. slot. Proof? "Individual race skill bonuses will create opportunities for cloaked scouts to scan further and longer than other dropsuits..." Okay, so what does this show? well, notice that it says longer. With passive scanning, only the further part makes sense. longer applies to either the duration of the scan or how long the enemy is scanned for, and those 2 variables only makes sense for active scanning. Therefore, there will probably be 2 eq. slots on the Scouts. 2: Looking at the new skills, either the cloak runs on a timer or stamina. Therefore you could make a weapon firing off take away some of that stamina or time, as all that heat coming off these weapons would probably interfere with it. Make it very severe, so if you fire off even one, the time of the cloak will shorten much quicker. "Hello, world!" lol, sounds like something a whore lover would say Alt of the great Godin I like chocolate ^___^
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1522	Posted - 2014.01.10 00:08:00 - [23] - Quote Firing while being cloaked is definitely not gamebreaking. Maybe if am assault suit does it but not a scout. Scouts can't even use damage mods so if your not careful as soon as you uncloak your going to get mowed down by the wrath of God himself. At top tier a scout would need to unleash close to 1000 damage before the victim turns around and shoots back.
KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 413	Posted - 2014.01.10 04:49:00 - [24] - Quote GRIM GEAR wrote: You seem very biased towards scouts. when it comes to the crunch other suits can use the cloak too you complete twit. Thanks for bringing that up, I automatically assumed that the cloak would be scout only. If the cloak is available for all suits, then that's a problem bigger than the scope of this thread.
Faquira Bleuetta 0uter.Heaven 147	Posted - 2014.01.10 05:02:00 - [25] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: So it seems that the direction of cloaking in this game is headed towards having a Cloaky Combat Scout. The current proposed cloaking mechanics state that cloaks are a piece of equipment, and that light weapons can be equipped on a suit with a cloak, and be fired while cloaked. Also, no scout has more than 1 equipment slot, thus the utility of performing scans or dropping links or mines behind enemy lines is an immediate impossibility. This forces the scout into a combat role. A combat role with access to rail rifles, sniper rifles, and shotguns, that can barely be detected before collecting their free kill. I donGÇÖt think that is a good addition to the game, and will be supremely frustrating and nearly un-counterable on the battlefield. Think of a ThaleGÇÖs sniper with a cloak in the redline, sniping while cloaked, and then hiding behind structures when his cloak is in cooldown. I think this is a pretty bad gameplay mistake. However, I do think that cloaking has a place in this game, not as a combat scout, but as a cloaky engineer/saboteur. In my mind, the cloaky scout role should be focused on scurrying behind enemy lines and dropping uplinks while hunting enemy uplinks. He should be able to lay minefields, he should be able run scans and report enemy movements, he should be able to sneak to an objective and hack. He should also occasionally be able to assassinate people, but not with great ease. So in addition to CCP RemnantGÇÖs list, here are my proposed changes: 1) The cloak recharges while sitting still, thus enabling longer deployments behind enemy lines. 2) The cloak should disable the equpping of light weapons. 3) The cloak should reduce the damage of sidearms by 20% 4) Scout suits should get additional equipment slots (to fit a cloak AND something useful) These changes will guide the cloaky scout out of the combat role, and into an infiltrator role. Now thereGÇÖs different ways to solve the light weapon/equipment slot problem. One is to make the cloak a Light Weapon, thus freeing up the equipment slot. The other is to increase equipment slots for all scouts. Another possible solution is to restrict cloaks to a new class of GÇ£blackopsGÇ¥ dropsuits, which will have no light weapon slot to begin with, have less HP/fitting, but have 2-3 equipment slots. I know itGÇÖs more Dev time, but I think limiting the use of a cloak to a single suit is an easier balance problem to solve than messing with the existing scout class. But thereGÇÖs many ways to skin that cat. TL;DR Cloaky Ganky Combat Scouts will ruin the game, Cloaky Sneaky Saboteurs will add to the game u always qq always ur jimmies are weak
Phazoid The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 224	Posted - 2014.01.10 05:05:00 - [26] - Quote i say YES to the cloak scout and i say the game first needs to see how the cloak fares BEFORE talking about nerfs or buffs Dragons don't have friends. The nearest we can get to the idea is an enemy who is still alive.
Ivy Zalinto Lo-Tech Solutions Ltd 246	Posted - 2014.01.10 05:07:00 - [27] - Quote People on the field already seem to be blind or dumb as a rock...dont see how making us actually invisible will help them. Not to mention theres been talk of a upgrade to scouts other than the cloak. Maybe a second equipment slot or something would be in the works. Though i doubt it, I already have fitting issues when trying to run the things I like to run. Dedicated Stealth Scout. Scout instructor; Learning Coalition Scrambler Pistol dedication
Harpyja DUST University Ivy League 1057	Posted - 2014.01.10 05:10:00 - [28] - Quote I think you should only be able to shoot while not cloaked. You should be unable to perform any offensive actions other than melee for a second or two after deactivating the cloak. This will stay in line with EVE's cloaking mechanics where you're unable to lock targets for a certain amount of time after decloacking. This can also lead to specialized roles that are fragile but can fire immediately after decloaking (like the stealth bombers in EVE). I think scouts should get this ability to fire immediately after decloaking, while every other suit has a delay (call it sensor recalibration or whatever). But I say NO to being able to shoot while remaining cloaked. I also hope that if any player (friend or foe) gets too close, the cloaked player becomes uncloaked. Edit: taking any damage (perhaps fall damage excluded) should decloak cloaked players as well. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
mollerz Minja Scouts 1696	Posted - 2014.01.10 05:11:00 - [29] - Quote Cool. Let's remove 4 slots off the logis. Make scouts much faster. make heavies and logis much slower. and buff assaults to what logis were. You gotta hustle if you wanna make a dolla
Ghost Kaisar Titans of Phoenix Legacy Rising 1696	Posted - 2014.01.10 05:50:00 - [30] - Quote I am a scout. I don't want to be able to shoot through a cloak. Others may not agree, but this is where I stand. I would use it to run into area where I know I would be seen, and then turn it off when behind enemy lines. Flank target. Kill red dots. Run when they see me. Use cloak to evade pursuers. Draw them away from the main force. Eliminate them one by one. That's how it should be. Also, it should be scout only. Or at least exempt to the Logi Equipment bonus. I don't want logis to take our freaking role AGAIN. Get over it. If you don't play to win in FW, then you're playing for Caldari. -Patrick57 Minmatar. In Rust we trust.

SILENTSAM 69 SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION 611	Posted - 2014.01.10 11:07:00 - [31] - Quote You are not considering everything mentioned. There are things that counter and balance the cloak. First off the scanner does find cloaked people, and counter the cloak. This is finally a real reason to use higher level scanners. Also, the cross hairs will always go red if someone is there. Even if you can not see them. Those who pay attention can just start shooting. A Scout will have to decide if he wants to wear Profile Dampners and go right stealth, of more combat and allow some high level scanners to find him. Either way, he is still a scout and takes very little to kill. He will likely surprise people and get one or two kills before being put down. I bet it will not be a really cheap piece of equipment either. It will likely limit the fitting capability a bit.
Michael Arck Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu 2559	Posted - 2014.01.10 11:08:00 - [32] - Quote Fear of change. Without progression, we become stagnant. Let's just see what happens first. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. For the State!! [email protected]
Acturus Galaxy Lo-Tech Solutions Ltd 333	Posted - 2014.01.10 11:16:00 - [33] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: So it seems that the direction of cloaking in this game is headed towards having a Cloaky Combat Scout. The current proposed cloaking mechanics state that cloaks are a piece of equipment, and that light weapons can be equipped on a suit with a cloak, and be fired while cloaked. Also, no scout has more than 1 equipment slot, thus the utility of performing scans or dropping links or mines behind enemy lines is an immediate impossibility. This forces the scout into a combat role. A combat role with access to rail rifles, sniper rifles, and shotguns, that can barely be detected before collecting their free kill. I donGÇÖt think that is a good addition to the game, and will be supremely frustrating and nearly un-counterable on the battlefield. Think of a ThaleGÇÖs sniper with a cloak in the redline, sniping while cloaked, and then hiding behind structures when his cloak is in cooldown. I think this is a pretty bad gameplay mistake. However, I do think that cloaking has a place in this game, not as a combat scout, but as a cloaky engineer/saboteur. In my mind, the cloaky scout role should be focused on scurrying behind enemy lines and dropping uplinks while hunting enemy uplinks. He should be able to lay minefields, he should be able run scans and report enemy movements, he should be able to sneak to an objective and hack. He should also occasionally be able to assassinate people, but not with great ease. So in addition to CCP RemnantGÇÖs list, here are my proposed changes: 1) The cloak recharges while sitting still, thus enabling longer deployments behind enemy lines. 2) The cloak should disable the equpping of light weapons. 3) The cloak should reduce the damage of sidearms by 20% 4) Scout suits should get additional equipment slots (to fit a cloak AND something useful) These changes will guide the cloaky scout out of the combat role, and into an infiltrator role. Now thereGÇÖs different ways to solve the light weapon/equipment slot problem. One is to make the cloak a Light Weapon, thus freeing up the equipment slot. The other is to increase equipment slots for all scouts. Another possible solution is to restrict cloaks to a new class of GÇ£blackopsGÇ¥ dropsuits, which will have no light weapon slot to begin with, have less HP/fitting, but have 2-3 equipment slots. I know itGÇÖs more Dev time, but I think limiting the use of a cloak to a single suit is an easier balance problem to solve than messing with the existing scout class. But thereGÇÖs many ways to skin that cat. TL;DR Cloaky Ganky Combat Scouts will ruin the game, Cloaky Sneaky Saboteurs will add to the game You have some really good ideas regarding the cloak. This was also the role I had in mind for scouts, using the cloak to avoid being spotted and sneak around to place droplinks, hacking and gather intel. Not so much purely for combat. Everyone fears this will be used by the logi suits, why not change it to an sidearm item. Logis cannot use it, and the scout will have to switch weapon and it will be deactivated when engaging a red dot. That will hurt loosing the sidearm and also give an advantage getting the first shot.
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 447	Posted - 2014.01.10 11:20:00 - [34] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: So it seems that the direction of cloaking in this game is headed towards having a Cloaky Combat Scout. The current proposed cloaking mechanics state that cloaks are a piece of equipment, and that light weapons can be equipped on a suit with a cloak, and be fired while cloaked. Also, no scout has more than 1 equipment slot, thus the utility of performing scans or dropping links or mines behind enemy lines is an immediate impossibility. This forces the scout into a combat role. A combat role with access to rail rifles, sniper rifles, and shotguns, that can barely be detected before collecting their free kill. I donGÇÖt think that is a good addition to the game, and will be supremely frustrating and nearly un-counterable on the battlefield. Think of a ThaleGÇÖs sniper with a cloak in the redline, sniping while cloaked, and then hiding behind structures when his cloak is in cooldown. I think this is a pretty bad gameplay mistake. However, I do think that cloaking has a place in this game, not as a combat scout, but as a cloaky engineer/saboteur. In my mind, the cloaky scout role should be focused on scurrying behind enemy lines and dropping uplinks while hunting enemy uplinks. He should be able to lay minefields, he should be able run scans and report enemy movements, he should be able to sneak to an objective and hack. He should also occasionally be able to assassinate people, but not with great ease. So in addition to CCP RemnantGÇÖs list, here are my proposed changes: 1) The cloak recharges while sitting still, thus enabling longer deployments behind enemy lines. 2) The cloak should disable the equpping of light weapons. 3) The cloak should reduce the damage of sidearms by 20% 4) Scout suits should get additional equipment slots (to fit a cloak AND something useful) These changes will guide the cloaky scout out of the combat role, and into an infiltrator role. Now thereGÇÖs different ways to solve the light weapon/equipment slot problem. One is to make the cloak a Light Weapon, thus freeing up the equipment slot. The other is to increase equipment slots for all scouts. Another possible solution is to restrict cloaks to a new class of GÇ£blackopsGÇ¥ dropsuits, which will have no light weapon slot to begin with, have less HP/fitting, but have 2-3 equipment slots. I know itGÇÖs more Dev time, but I think limiting the use of a cloak to a single suit is an easier balance problem to solve than messing with the existing scout class. But thereGÇÖs many ways to skin that cat. TL;DR Cloaky Ganky Combat Scouts will ruin the game, Cloaky Sneaky Saboteurs will add to the game You know that cloaks are not scout restricted do you? Any suit can use them (as long as he has an equipment slot).. And are you really concerned that any sniper with a thale is stupid enough to use a cloak in the redline? honestly when they fire one shot and hide afterwards till their cloak has recharged they are far less of a threat as now.... Apart from that scanners will still pick you up even when cloaked. The point is scouts need something to excel in compared to other suits and currently they don't excel in anything beside dying easily...
Michael Arck Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu 2561	Posted - 2014.01.10 11:30:00 - [35] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: I am a scout. I don't want to be able to shoot through a cloak. Others may not agree, but this is where I stand. I would use it to run into area where I know I would be seen, and then turn it off when behind enemy lines. Flank target. Kill red dots. Run when they see me. Use cloak to evade pursuers. Draw them away from the main force. Eliminate them one by one. That's how it should be. Also, it should be scout only. Or at least exempt to the Logi Equipment bonus. I don't want logis to take our freaking role AGAIN. So basically you don't want something that can help you be more effective in your role and ya know...scout. Interesting. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. For the State!! [email protected]
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1327	Posted - 2014.01.10 11:36:00 - [36] - Quote Dear, Cloaky Combat Scout Affirmations. Yours Truly, Fizzer94 III Esquire "I'm done!" slams doorGÇª walks back in and sits down "I still enjoy the forums."
Broonfondle Majikthies Dogs of War Gaming Zero-Day 702	Posted - 2014.01.10 11:44:00 - [37] - Quote To OP Have you tried crossing the ground on Manus Peak in a suit with less health than a nanohive? Its camouflage anyway, not invisibility. "...where Bylothgar the Ill-postured was made King of the People With No Name But Decent Footwear"
Salviatino Maiano Eternal Beings 102	Posted - 2014.01.10 11:46:00 - [38] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: So it seems that the direction of cloaking in this game is headed towards having a Cloaky Combat Scout. The current proposed cloaking mechanics state that cloaks are a piece of equipment, and that light weapons can be equipped on a suit with a cloak, and be fired while cloaked. Also, no scout has more than 1 equipment slot, thus the utility of performing scans or dropping links or mines behind enemy lines is an immediate impossibility. This forces the scout into a combat role. A combat role with access to rail rifles, sniper rifles, and shotguns, that can barely be detected before collecting their free kill. I donGÇÖt think that is a good addition to the game, and will be supremely frustrating and nearly un-counterable on the battlefield. Think of a ThaleGÇÖs sniper with a cloak in the redline, sniping while cloaked, and then hiding behind structures when his cloak is in cooldown. I think this is a pretty bad gameplay mistake. However, I do think that cloaking has a place in this game, not as a combat scout, but as a cloaky engineer/saboteur. In my mind, the cloaky scout role should be focused on scurrying behind enemy lines and dropping uplinks while hunting enemy uplinks. He should be able to lay minefields, he should be able run scans and report enemy movements, he should be able to sneak to an objective and hack. He should also occasionally be able to assassinate people, but not with great ease. So in addition to CCP RemnantGÇÖs list, here are my proposed changes: 1) The cloak recharges while sitting still, thus enabling longer deployments behind enemy lines. 2) The cloak should disable the equpping of light weapons. 3) The cloak should reduce the damage of sidearms by 20% 4) Scout suits should get additional equipment slots (to fit a cloak AND something useful) 5) Make the cloak a Light Weapon 6) Restrict cloaks to a new class of GÇ£blackopsGÇ¥ dropsuits. TL;DR Cloaky Ganky Combat Scouts will ruin the game, Cloaky Sneaky Saboteurs will add to the game Nerfing it before its been released....... I'm right behind you...
Salviatino Maiano Eternal Beings 102	Posted - 2014.01.10 11:50:00 - [39] - Quote Fire Thale, Activate cloak.... Deactivate cloak, fire Thale, activate cloak... rinse and repeat I'm right behind you...
iceyburnz Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 1283	Posted - 2014.01.10 11:51:00 - [40] - Quote From the future "the history of dust" dustipedia page, taken in roughly 2017: "Ironically, after cloaking devices were implemented they seen the least community backlash on the official forums". "We spent so much time huddling inside buildings with tanks circling outside like a swarm of sharks around bait"

THE GREY CARDINAL PSU GHOST SYNDICATE DARKSTAR ARMY 347	Posted - 2014.01.10 11:58:00 - [41] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: Fear of change. This is at the heart of it. Electronic Warfare GOD in the making
Leonid Tybalt Dark Knightz Corp. 114	Posted - 2014.01.10 12:06:00 - [42] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: However, I do think that cloaking has a place in this game, not as a combat scout, but as a cloaky engineer/saboteur. In my mind, the cloaky scout role should be focused on scurrying behind enemy lines and dropping uplinks while hunting enemy uplinks. He should be able to lay minefields, he should be able run scans and report enemy movements, he should be able to sneak to an objective and hack. He should also occasionally be able to assassinate people, but not with great ease. Sorry but your idea sucks ass. And that's not something im saying because I plan to play as a scout (with or without cloak), im very happy with my tanks, logistics and heavy suits. "Dropping uplinks and hunting enemy uplinks" = a ****** idea and a waste of time for the scout player and a waste of manpower for the team that the scout player belongs to. Dropping uplinks doesen't earn you enough warpoints to make it worth being a dropsuits "main role", and destroying enemy uplinks earns you even less. "Lay minefields": really? So you seriously think that mines are very effective/useful in this game? "Run scans and report enemy movement": Intel kill assists doesen't earn you enough warpoints either, and if the cloaked scout is supposed to be relegated to this role then it pretty much delands that the player has to have a mic in order to be most useful (making it a bad game mechanic, because the game shouldn't rely on/require that all players have/use headsets). "Hacking objectives" = A more viable source of warpoints yes, BUT everyone can already sneak up to objectives and hack them (whats the point with using a cloak then?). The problem with hacking objectives is that as soon as they get hacked, the entire team is alerted due to the objective icon flash, which would make the cloak useless because the enemy already knows the objective is being hacked. The only way I see making it worthwhile is if the cloak also cloaks the scouts hacking attempt (i.e no icon flash alert), that way the cloak could actually be useful in the way that the scout can sneak past enemy guards at an objective and have a realistic chance at hacking an objective to completion before the enemy guards respond. All in all though, I don't see a viable reason to dislike the idea or cloaked combatants. I say bring it on! They're still only puny, pathetic scouts that die easily, and I think it's safe to assume that most seasoned videogamers have encountered some sort of cloaked/invisible opponents before and know how to deal with them (the multiplayer in Killzone 3 has cloaked scouts and they're hardly "gamebreaking")
Chibi Andy Forsaken Immortals Top Men. 850	Posted - 2014.01.10 12:46:00 - [43] - Quote i wish my heavy could equip that cloaking device YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED!!! sç+a¦át¢èa¦á)sç+ (pâÄa¦át¢èa¦á)pâÄs+íGö+GöüGö+
KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 417	Posted - 2014.01.10 18:31:00 - [44] - Quote Leonid Tybalt wrote: KA24DERT wrote: However, I do think that cloaking has a place in this game, not as a combat scout, but as a cloaky engineer/saboteur. In my mind, the cloaky scout role should be focused on scurrying behind enemy lines and dropping uplinks while hunting enemy uplinks. He should be able to lay minefields, he should be able run scans and report enemy movements, he should be able to sneak to an objective and hack. He should also occasionally be able to assassinate people, but not with great ease. Sorry but your idea sucks ass. And that's not something im saying because I plan to play as a scout (with or without cloak), im very happy with my tanks, logistics and heavy suits. "Dropping uplinks and hunting enemy uplinks" = a ****** idea and a waste of time for the scout player and a waste of manpower for the team that the scout player belongs to. Dropping uplinks doesen't earn you enough warpoints to make it worth being a dropsuits "main role", and destroying enemy uplinks earns you even less. "Lay minefields": really? So you seriously think that mines are very effective/useful in this game? "Run scans and report enemy movement": Intel kill assists doesen't earn you enough warpoints either, and if the cloaked scout is supposed to be relegated to this role then it pretty much delands that the player has to have a mic in order to be most useful (making it a bad game mechanic, because the game shouldn't rely on/require that all players have/use headsets). "Hacking objectives" = A more viable source of warpoints yes, BUT everyone can already sneak up to objectives and hack them (whats the point with using a cloak then?). The problem with hacking objectives is that as soon as they get hacked, the entire team is alerted due to the objective icon flash, which would make the cloak useless because the enemy already knows the objective is being hacked. The only way I see making it worthwhile is if the cloak also cloaks the scouts hacking attempt (i.e no icon flash alert), that way the cloak could actually be useful in the way that the scout can sneak past enemy guards at an objective and have a realistic chance at hacking an objective to completion before the enemy guards respond. All in all though, I don't see a viable reason to dislike the idea or cloaked combatants. I say bring it on! They're still only puny, pathetic scouts that die easily, and I think it's safe to assume that most seasoned videogamers have encountered some sort of cloaked/invisible opponents before and know how to deal with them (the multiplayer in Killzone 3 has cloaked scouts and they're hardly "gamebreaking") Your basic complaint is that these actions don't provide you with sufficient warpoint whoring, therefore the idea is useless. You are totally ignoring the strategic importance of forming a beachhead, laying mines (which do work, ask the tankers that curse me every day), voice comms, and reporting enemy movements... just because you don't get a gold star for the individual action. Whenever I look at the playerlist in a match, I will be grateful every time you're NOT on my team.
Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 406	Posted - 2014.01.10 19:00:00 - [45] - Quote I can't wait to land charged scr headshots on fools all day because they can't see me as I pop out and take my time to aim. Or snipe with my commando. Or breach pistol headshot entire squads. This is going to be so broken. Anyone who thinks firing from cloaked is good hasn't played any fps games with cloak before. In halo 1-3 cloak was the best power weapon and key you kill everyone. I predict this will be just as op except everyone can just use it willy nilly
Lorhak Gannarsein 1177	Posted - 2014.01.10 20:41:00 - [46] - Quote Bones McGavins wrote: I can't wait to land charged scr headshots on fools all day because they can't see me as I pop out and take my time to aim. Or snipe with my commando. Or breach pistol headshot entire squads. This is going to be so broken. Anyone who thinks firing from cloaked is good hasn't played any fps games with cloak before. In halo 1-3 cloak was the best power weapon and key you kill everyone. I predict this will be just as op except everyone can just use it willy nilly Yep. Gonna use the GalAssault's new SuperBrick ability to stack basic plates for obscene HP, and charged ScR people all. day. long. PRO tanker and proud. Number of PRO-turret HAVs killed w/ my permahardened MLT Blaster Gunny - 2 (so far xD)
KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 540	Posted - 2014.03.26 02:25:00 - [47] - Quote So, how those cloaks working out?
Kira Takizawa uptown456 Proficiency V. 179	Posted - 2014.03.27 10:39:00 - [48] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: So, how those cloaks working out? I wish CCP would have listened to your ideas... xD Story of the Merc
Faquira Bleuetta Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 309	Posted - 2014.03.27 10:42:00 - [49] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: KA24DERT wrote: I donGÇÖt think that is a good addition to the game, and will be supremely frustrating and nearly un-counterable on the battlefield. Think of a ThaleGÇÖs sniper with a cloak in the redline, sniping while cloaked, and then hiding behind structures when his cloak is in cooldown. Additionally, Thale's snipers deep in the redline are practically invulnerable anyway. Use a scanner to counter it. They're getting buffed further in the form of the Gallogi bonus and the profile dampening on most of the scouts is being removed. Quote: So in addition to CCP RemnantGÇÖs list, here are my proposed changes: 1) The cloak recharges while sitting still, thus enabling longer deployments behind enemy lines. 2) The cloak should disable the equpping of light weapons. 3) The cloak should reduce the damage of sidearms by 20% 4) Scout suits should get additional equipment slots (to fit a cloak AND something useful) I... kind of like some of these. On one hand, you give. On the other hand, you take, and it changes the role. However, I don't think the weapon penalties need to be so draconian. One thing which we absolutely should not be able to have is firing whilst cloaked, but wrecking your weaponry whilst uncloaked seems dubious. I would prefer something more along the lines of a weapon firing delay. Although EVE is not as good a model as people think, there is a mechanic in that which does not allow you to fire your weapons for a short period after decloaking. This would prevent people from randomly instagibbing enemies from nowhere but allow the scouts to be not completely screwed if they get in a fight. Because they -will- get in a fight at some point. Everyone has to. Quote: These changes will guide the cloaky scout out of the combat role, and into an infiltrator role. It would help do that, but I'm dubious as to the value of such a thing. Ninja hacking is one role it could do, although if the point is even slightly guarded with these restrictions the scout is stuck. What else? Covert tank trapping, maybe? I think that such a role would be too niche and unused. the cloaks is broken bcuz of **** load glitch related like jumping to remove shimmering
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4629	Posted - 2014.03.27 10:59:00 - [50] - Quote Chibi Andy wrote: i wish my heavy could equip that cloaking device Commando says hi. Faquira Bleuetta wrote: the cloaks is broken bcuz of **** load glitch related like jumping to remove shimmering If only CCP did something to reduce the viability of jumping around everywhere. Maybe they could add a stamina bar that depletes when you jump?

Leonid Tybalt Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 348	Posted - 2014.03.27 11:14:00 - [51] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: Leonid Tybalt wrote: KA24DERT wrote: However, I do think that cloaking has a place in this game, not as a combat scout, but as a cloaky engineer/saboteur. In my mind, the cloaky scout role should be focused on scurrying behind enemy lines and dropping uplinks while hunting enemy uplinks. He should be able to lay minefields, he should be able run scans and report enemy movements, he should be able to sneak to an objective and hack. He should also occasionally be able to assassinate people, but not with great ease. Sorry but your idea sucks ass. And that's not something im saying because I plan to play as a scout (with or without cloak), im very happy with my tanks, logistics and heavy suits. "Dropping uplinks and hunting enemy uplinks" = a **** idea and a waste of time for the scout player and a waste of manpower for the team that the scout player belongs to. Dropping uplinks doesen't earn you enough warpoints to make it worth being a dropsuits "main role", and destroying enemy uplinks earns you even less. "Lay minefields": really? So you seriously think that mines are very effective/useful in this game? "Run scans and report enemy movement": Intel kill assists doesen't earn you enough warpoints either, and if the cloaked scout is supposed to be relegated to this role then it pretty much delands that the player has to have a mic in order to be most useful (making it a bad game mechanic, because the game shouldn't rely on/require that all players have/use headsets). "Hacking objectives" = A more viable source of warpoints yes, BUT everyone can already sneak up to objectives and hack them (whats the point with using a cloak then?). The problem with hacking objectives is that as soon as they get hacked, the entire team is alerted due to the objective icon flash, which would make the cloak useless because the enemy already knows the objective is being hacked. The only way I see making it worthwhile is if the cloak also cloaks the scouts hacking attempt (i.e no icon flash alert), that way the cloak could actually be useful in the way that the scout can sneak past enemy guards at an objective and have a realistic chance at hacking an objective to completion before the enemy guards respond. All in all though, I don't see a viable reason to dislike the idea or cloaked combatants. I say bring it on! They're still only puny, pathetic scouts that die easily, and I think it's safe to assume that most seasoned videogamers have encountered some sort of cloaked/invisible opponents before and know how to deal with them (the multiplayer in Killzone 3 has cloaked scouts and they're hardly "gamebreaking") Your basic complaint is that these actions don't provide you with sufficient warpoint whoring, therefore the idea is useless. You are totally ignoring the strategic importance of forming a beachhead, laying mines (which do work, ask the tankers that curse me every day), voice comms, and reporting enemy movements... just because you don't get a gold star for the individual action. Whenever I look at the playerlist in a match, I will be grateful every time you're NOT on my team. Don't know if you've noticed but your income of isk largely depends on "warpoint whoreing". How are you supposed to get by as a *** MERCENARY if your contribution to the battle doesn't earn you any money? (money that you NEED to stay in business). Your "counter argument" has to be one of the most ****** I have encountered on these messageboards yet...
KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 544	Posted - 2014.03.29 06:18:00 - [52] - Quote Leonid Tybalt wrote: KA24DERT wrote: Leonid Tybalt wrote: KA24DERT wrote: However, I do think that cloaking has a place in this game, not as a combat scout, but as a cloaky engineer/saboteur. In my mind, the cloaky scout role should be focused on scurrying behind enemy lines and dropping uplinks while hunting enemy uplinks. He should be able to lay minefields, he should be able run scans and report enemy movements, he should be able to sneak to an objective and hack. He should also occasionally be able to assassinate people, but not with great ease. Sorry but your idea sucks ass. And that's not something im saying because I plan to play as a scout (with or without cloak), im very happy with my tanks, logistics and heavy suits. "Dropping uplinks and hunting enemy uplinks" = a **** idea and a waste of time for the scout player and a waste of manpower for the team that the scout player belongs to. Dropping uplinks doesen't earn you enough warpoints to make it worth being a dropsuits "main role", and destroying enemy uplinks earns you even less. "Lay minefields": really? So you seriously think that mines are very effective/useful in this game? "Run scans and report enemy movement": Intel kill assists doesen't earn you enough warpoints either, and if the cloaked scout is supposed to be relegated to this role then it pretty much delands that the player has to have a mic in order to be most useful (making it a bad game mechanic, because the game shouldn't rely on/require that all players have/use headsets). "Hacking objectives" = A more viable source of warpoints yes, BUT everyone can already sneak up to objectives and hack them (whats the point with using a cloak then?). The problem with hacking objectives is that as soon as they get hacked, the entire team is alerted due to the objective icon flash, which would make the cloak useless because the enemy already knows the objective is being hacked. The only way I see making it worthwhile is if the cloak also cloaks the scouts hacking attempt (i.e no icon flash alert), that way the cloak could actually be useful in the way that the scout can sneak past enemy guards at an objective and have a realistic chance at hacking an objective to completion before the enemy guards respond. All in all though, I don't see a viable reason to dislike the idea or cloaked combatants. I say bring it on! They're still only puny, pathetic scouts that die easily, and I think it's safe to assume that most seasoned videogamers have encountered some sort of cloaked/invisible opponents before and know how to deal with them (the multiplayer in Killzone 3 has cloaked scouts and they're hardly "gamebreaking") Your basic complaint is that these actions don't provide you with sufficient warpoint whoring, therefore the idea is useless. You are totally ignoring the strategic importance of forming a beachhead, laying mines (which do work, ask the tankers that curse me every day), voice comms, and reporting enemy movements... just because you don't get a gold star for the individual action. Whenever I look at the playerlist in a match, I will be grateful every time you're NOT on my team. Don't know if you've noticed but your income of isk largely depends on "warpoint whoreing". How are you supposed to get by as a *** MERCENARY if your contribution to the battle doesn't earn you any money? (money that you NEED to stay in business). Your "counter argument" has to be one of the most ****** I have encountered on these messageboards yet... So, the solution to your described problem isn't to re-assess the distribution of warpoints based on valuable actions, it's to spurt out some censored name-calling? Dude, you say that sneaking off a hack has no merit, you say dropping uplinks and doing scans is a waste of a scout, and you say that voice comms shouldn't be required... You've basically outted yourself as a player who has never successfully used teamwork in this game to accomplish anything of note, and your opinions will be considered accordingly.
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance 5506	Posted - 2014.03.29 06:23:00 - [53] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: After thinking about it for a while, the better solution is to make it so that you HAVE to constantly hold the cloak trigger in your hand in order to maintain the cloak. If you swap to a weapon or any other item besides the trigger, you lose the cloak. Fair enough. What do you want my fingers to fall off? Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 5 STB-Infantry (Demolition)
Kira Takizawa uptown456 Proficiency V. 185	Posted - 2014.03.30 04:54:00 - [54] - Quote Sinboto Simmons wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: After thinking about it for a while, the better solution is to make it so that you HAVE to constantly hold the cloak trigger in your hand in order to maintain the cloak. If you swap to a weapon or any other item besides the trigger, you lose the cloak. Fair enough. What do you want my fingers to fall off? Yes? Story of the Merc
Athena Sentinel SOE Knights Templar 191	Posted - 2014.03.30 05:23:00 - [55] - Quote -1 not worth reading. It has not been a week and instead of learning new styles your just QQing in a long winded way. Just wait till you run into commando cloakies LOL
McFurious TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 681	Posted - 2014.03.30 07:10:00 - [56] - Quote Athena Sentinel wrote: -1 not worth reading. It has not been a week and instead of learning new styles your just QQing in a long winded way. Just wait till you run into commando cloakies LOL Half Irish. Often angry. Closed Beta Masshole
echo47 Minmatar Republic 260	Posted - 2014.03.30 10:34:00 - [57] - Quote Galthur wrote: Your reticle turns red when aiming at them and they glimmer while running, I see no problem killing them. Even if you can't aim your reticle will still turn red, if you can't see red or the glimmer why are you playing this game, unless scout grow wings an begin to attack you from the sky I doubt they will be a problem. So which rifle and side arm do you use? I would rather look bad and win, than look good and lose.
BIind Shot Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad. 82	Posted - 2014.03.30 10:37:00 - [58] - Quote Galthur wrote: Your reticle turns red when aiming at them and they glimmer while running, I see no problem killing them. Even if you can't aim your reticle will still turn red, if you can't see red or the glimmer why are you playing this game, unless scout grow wings an begin to attack you from the sky I doubt they will be a problem. THE TREES! THEY'RE COMING FROM THE ******* TREES!! CCP... can we have trees?
Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 1686	Posted - 2014.03.30 10:51:00 - [59] - Quote I don't even think a scout should be able to be a ninja assassin. I'd like to see the scout be a scout. However, the flow of combat and style of game play this game has makes scouting a useless, largely undesirable endeavor. I try to perform that duty as best I can, but I run solo because I don't think anybody really cares about scouts feeding intel. There are no other specific mods, features or equipmemt to facilitate scouting as a desired role either. "Stay stealthy scouts." GÇô Ron Burgundy
KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 544	Posted - 2014.03.31 05:15:00 - [60] - Quote Operative 1171 Aajli wrote: I don't even think a scout should be able to be a ninja assassin. I'd like to see the scout be a scout. However, the flow of combat and style of game play this game has makes scouting a useless, largely undesirable endeavor. I try to perform that duty as best I can, but I run solo because I don't think anybody really cares about scouts feeding intel. There are no other specific mods, features or equipmemt to facilitate scouting as a desired role either. Well, that's point of the idea. There are features and equipment that facilitate the idea: scanners, uplinks, invisible hacking. You are right that the short timespan and of battles puts a low ceiling on the payoff, but anyone that plays competitively in this game would love a dedicated person to get scans, drop links and hacks in a sneaky manner.

neausea 1987 R 0 N 1 N 91	Posted - 2014.03.31 05:22:00 - [61] - Quote I like this thread a little QQ a little common sense but enough of the sense I need tears to live TEARS!!!!!!!! this is all I have a¦Ñ_a¦Ñ.... GòÜ(GÇóGîéGÇó)Gò¥ .... (Gò»°Gûí°n+ëGò»n+¦ Gö+GöüGö+ ......... Gö+GöüGö+ n+¦pâ+(`-ö´)n+ën+¦ Gö+GöüGö+ i need more QQ tears MORE!!
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 1995	Posted - 2014.03.31 05:48:00 - [62] - Quote It surprise me that someone want a class to not shoot stuff in a first person shooter. And play some kind of uplink janitor. You are not solving any of the scouts problems with this idea, just give up already. Drop it like its hat. I´m a fat scout. Do you even lift bro?
Michael Arck Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu Lokun Listamenn 3851	Posted - 2014.03.31 05:53:00 - [63] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: And play some kind of uplink janitor. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Are you OUKH?
Cotsy8 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 188	Posted - 2014.03.31 06:21:00 - [64] - Quote Galthur wrote: Your reticle turns red when aiming at them and they glimmer while running, I see no problem killing them. Even if you can't aim your reticle will still turn red, if you can't see red or the glimmer why are you playing this game, unless scout grow wings an begin to attack you from the sky I doubt they will be a problem. Did you break your leg? Did those crutches come straight from the CCP hospital? You cannot provide 5 reasons, or justification for scout needing a cloak. Give me the 5 reasons and an explanation without including invalid arguments as "eyes are OP", "get good", "eve has cloaks" or "they are required for scouts to do well". These are bullshit. Scouts just want to be the new Logi slayer, while taking on the tanker mantra: deny deny deny. You want to keep your ridiculous advantage and avoid punished for your poor decisions and lack of skill. I get it, its nice to be good without increasing your skill level, its nice not to struggle or need to use skill to be a good scout. But in an objective, honest assessment of cloaks, the are not required for scouts to excel. So take your bullshit and return to the mediocrity you came from, you don't deserve to be rewarded for poor decisions.
Paran Tadec The Hetairoi 2124	Posted - 2014.03.31 06:36:00 - [65] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: So it seems that the direction of cloaking in this game is headed towards having a Cloaky Combat Scout. The current proposed cloaking mechanics state that cloaks are a piece of equipment, and that light weapons can be equipped on a suit with a cloak, and be fired while cloaked. Also, no scout has more than 1 equipment slot, thus the utility of performing scans or dropping links or mines behind enemy lines is an immediate impossibility. This forces the scout into a combat role. A combat role with access to rail rifles, sniper rifles, and shotguns, that can barely be detected before collecting their free kill. I donGÇÖt think that is a good addition to the game, and will be supremely frustrating and nearly un-counterable on the battlefield. Think of a ThaleGÇÖs sniper with a cloak in the redline, sniping while cloaked, and then hiding behind structures when his cloak is in cooldown. I think this is a pretty bad gameplay mistake. However, I do think that cloaking has a place in this game, not as a combat scout, but as a cloaky engineer/saboteur. In my mind, the cloaky scout role should be focused on scurrying behind enemy lines and dropping uplinks while hunting enemy uplinks. He should be able to lay minefields, he should be able run scans and report enemy movements, he should be able to sneak to an objective and hack. He should also occasionally be able to assassinate people, but not with great ease. So in addition to CCP RemnantGÇÖs list, here are my proposed changes: 1) The cloak recharges while sitting still, thus enabling longer deployments behind enemy lines. 2) The cloak should disable the equpping of light weapons. 3) The cloak should reduce the damage of sidearms by 20% 4) Scout suits should get additional equipment slots (to fit a cloak AND something useful) These changes will guide the cloaky scout out of the combat role, and into an infiltrator role. Now thereGÇÖs different ways to solve the light weapon/equipment slot problem. One is to make the cloak a Light Weapon, thus freeing up the equipment slot. The other is to increase equipment slots for all scouts. Another possible solution is to restrict cloaks to a new class of GÇ£blackopsGÇ¥ dropsuits, which will have no light weapon slot to begin with, have less HP/fitting, but have 2-3 equipment slots. I know itGÇÖs more Dev time, but I think limiting the use of a cloak to a single suit is an easier balance problem to solve than messing with the existing scout class. But thereGÇÖs many ways to skin that cat. TL;DR Cloaky Ganky Combat Scouts will ruin the game, Cloaky Sneaky Saboteurs will add to the game This game gets more unplayable with every "patch." Bittervet Proficiency V thanks logibro!
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4713	Posted - 2014.03.31 06:41:00 - [66] - Quote Cotsy8 wrote: You cannot provide 5 reasons, or justification for scout needing a cloak. I don't have a cloak on any of my Scout fittings. Nobody needs to justify Scouts "needing" a cloak, because WE DON'T NEED IT. Neither do Assaults, and I've seen cloaked Assaults. neither do Logis, and I've seen cloaked Logis. Neither do Commandos, and I've seen one of those with a cloak too. This isn't about a particular suit NEEDING an item to be competitive. Cloaks are an interesting and fun tool to have in the game. Quote: Give me the 5 reasons and an explanation without including invalid arguments as "eyes are OP", "get good", "eve has cloaks" or "they are required for scouts to do well". These are kitten. Censored that for you. You give me 5 reasons why a cloak is OP and an explanation of each reason without using invalid arguments such as "they're invisible", "they're a crutch", "other shooters don't have cloaks" or "they make bad players look good". These are no more valid than the worst of the arguments you're complaining against, and are less valid than "eyes are OP", because that's just a joking way to say that cloaked enemies are clearly visible when you look at them. Quote: Scouts just want to be the new Logi slayer, while taking on the tanker mantra: deny deny deny. You want to keep your ridiculous advantage and avoid punished for your poor decisions and lack of skill. I get it, its nice to be good without increasing your skill level, its nice not to struggle or need to use skill to be a good scout. But in an objective, honest assessment of cloaks, the are not required for scouts to excel. A good Scout with a Shotgun and no cloak will sneak around behind an enemy and kill them without being seen. A bad Scout with a Shotgun and a cloak will walk towards an enemy from in front and get shot in the face before they get close enough to take their shot. If they get into Shotgun range, it's because the person they chose to kill was an idiot. Are you an idiot? No? Then USE YOUR EYES. I love how you're showing up in all the cloak threads, pouring out the same spiel without actually reading the discussion, then never going back and replying to the people who have deconstructed your failtastic argument and shown you where all the holes are in your poor attempt at logic.
Lynn Beck Wake N' Bake Inc Top Men. 986	Posted - 2014.03.31 06:51:00 - [67] - Quote If it wasn't for CCP's extreme inability to troubleshoot/playtest their own damned bucket of fail, we wouldn't have people abusing the gloriousness that is the hacking glitch. Along with the Lag+Shotgun+750armor Along with the caldari scout fitting prototype on a basic frame. Edit: aside from those (^) ridicullihs exploits that auto win the game for you, DUST would be fun. Cloaks are fun, and (aside from exploits) are balanced. Cloaks allow a scout to safely go from one horridly designed socket to another without being thale'd an allow them to be scouts...which is NOT walking radar dish(caldari scout bonus aside) The scout in Hawken has a stamina backup battery and twinweild shotguns. Does that say 'walking radar dish' to you? To go one step farther, there's also the Reaper frame, which is a light frame- but with higher armor, minorly reduced speed(still faster than the fastest midframe) but trades it off for DPS and destructiveness. The Reaper gets a Tac AR with a miniature cannon. I refuse to gve honor to your 'god' so therefore i dual tank. Also i feel itchy. Anybody got a tube of Rust-It?
Galthur Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 431	Posted - 2014.04.07 15:24:00 - [68] - Quote Cotsy8 wrote: Galthur wrote: Your reticle turns red when aiming at them and they glimmer while running, I see no problem killing them. Even if you can't aim your reticle will still turn red, if you can't see red or the glimmer why are you playing this game, unless scout grow wings an begin to attack you from the sky I doubt they will be a problem. Did you break your leg? Did those crutches come straight from the CCP hospital? You cannot provide 5 reasons, or justification for scout needing a cloak. Give me the 5 reasons and an explanation without including invalid arguments as "eyes are OP", "get good", "eve has cloaks" or "they are required for scouts to do well". These are bullshit. Scouts just want to be the new Logi slayer, while taking on the tanker mantra: deny deny deny. You want to keep your ridiculous advantage and avoid punished for your poor decisions and lack of skill. I get it, its nice to be good without increasing your skill level, its nice not to struggle or need to use skill to be a good scout. But in an objective, honest assessment of cloaks, the are not required for scouts to excel. So take your bullshit and return to the mediocrity you came from, you don't deserve to be rewarded for poor decisions. I honestly do not understand people like you, I have no problems seeing cloaked scouts (free kills) getting around 2-6 kills on cloaks per game (yes using my eyes) and get far more kills on scouts then they do on me. Also I use a AR and PLC on a commando (lolCrutch) What do you post in the war room when CCP is gone and PC is locked? 14:44 [CCP]Logibro: Not Anime.
Magnus Amadeuss Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 708	Posted - 2014.04.07 16:18:00 - [69] - Quote Galthur wrote: Cotsy8 wrote: Galthur wrote: Your reticle turns red when aiming at them and they glimmer while running, I see no problem killing them. Even if you can't aim your reticle will still turn red, if you can't see red or the glimmer why are you playing this game, unless scout grow wings an begin to attack you from the sky I doubt they will be a problem. Did you break your leg? Did those crutches come straight from the CCP hospital? You cannot provide 5 reasons, or justification for scout needing a cloak. Give me the 5 reasons and an explanation without including invalid arguments as "eyes are OP", "get good", "eve has cloaks" or "they are required for scouts to do well". These are bullshit. Scouts just want to be the new Logi slayer, while taking on the tanker mantra: deny deny deny. You want to keep your ridiculous advantage and avoid punished for your poor decisions and lack of skill. I get it, its nice to be good without increasing your skill level, its nice not to struggle or need to use skill to be a good scout. But in an objective, honest assessment of cloaks, the are not required for scouts to excel. So take your bullshit and return to the mediocrity you came from, you don't deserve to be rewarded for poor decisions. I honestly do not understand people like you, I have no problems seeing cloaked scouts (free kills) getting around 2-6 kills on cloaks per game (yes using my eyes) and get far more kills on scouts then they do on me. Also I use a AR and PLC on a commando (lolCrutch) I really think maybe different TV settings come into play here, as some people seem to have absolutely no problem seeing cloaks (you) and then others like have a really difficult time seeing cloaks on the bright maps. Fixing swarms


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