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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance
851
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Posted - 2014.01.09 14:39:00 -
[1] - Quote
CCP wrote:Scout Suit Bonus: +10% bonus to PG/CPU of cloak field per level. Gallente Scout Bonus: 5% to dropsuit scan radius and 5% reduction to scan profile per level.
So, the old bonus used to give 10%/Lv. Now you may be thinking, ah come on, that's not that big a deal, and that's why I'm going to show you just how big a deal it really is.
Currently, I run two complex range amps on my Gal scout. This puts my passive scan at 73m or a scan area of-á16,556.03 square meters. With the reduced bonus given by the new Gal scout suit my new passive scan will be 60m or a scan area of 11,304 square meters. This results in a reduction to my current scan area by-á31.52%. And that is a serious chunk of change. The original bonus was the entire reason why I skilled into the Gal scout in the first place, because with three range amps (roughly 91m) you can fill out the entire possible range of the radar bubble at the to left of the screen while in battle (I believe the range is either 85m or 90m). but now, with three range amps, that range will be reduced to-á76m and a scan area reduction down from 26,002.34-ásquare meters to 18,136.64-ásquare meters, or a reduction of-á33.05% to my current scan area.
My solution to this problem, as was stated in the beginning of this post is to increase the base scan radius of all scouts from 16m to 20m (I would even settle for 19m)
The current scan radius, only modified by base skills and modules, is pretty pathetic as it stand now:
Base skills Lv 5: 24m or scan area of-á1,808.64 square meters(have you ever tried this out? it is terrible.)
Plus one complex range amplifier:-á35m or a scam are of-á3,846.5 square meters (I have played with this range as well while leveling up my scout. It is not good
Plus two-ácomplex range amplifier:-á48m or a scan area of 7,234.56 square meters (it is only when you start to get upward of 50m that this type of role - low health but high visibility - begins to become viable)
If the scout base scan radius were to be changed to 20m the following would be the results:
Base skills Lv 5: 30m or a scan are of-á2,826 square meters.
Plus one complex range amplifier:-á43m or a scan area of-á5,805.86 square meters
Plus two complex range amplifier:-á60m or a scan are of-á11,304 square meters.
With the Gal scout bonus the scan radius works out to be the following (I will not list the square meters because similar numbers have already been listed:
No mod:-á37m
One mod:-á54m
Two mods:-á76m-á
Three mods:-á95m
As you can see these numbers are slightly higher than the current numbers (52, 73 an 91) which is why I said I would be willing to settle for 19m as a base stat, but this works out to be a little lower than our current numbers.
CCP, I hope that this post finds you well and that you give it some serious thought, and I hope that you can understand how hard of a hit this is to anyone who went into scout because they enjoy this kind of roll (stealth).
{:)}{3GÇó>
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Krom Ganesh
Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire
1091
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Posted - 2014.01.09 14:48:00 -
[2] - Quote
Son-Of A-Gun wrote:My solution to this problem, as was stated in the beginning of this post is to increase the base scan radius of all scouts from 16m to 20m
I suspect this will be what CCP is going to do. They seem to be balancing max passive range so the gal scout has around a 100m range by stacking entirely range amps.
!
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Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men.
702
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Posted - 2014.01.09 14:51:00 -
[3] - Quote
I'd be curious to know how many scouts actually used range amplifiers. I did on an alt and wanted to skill this up on my main, but the direction CCP seems to be leaning makes me hesitant to try anything stealth related until 1.8 is set in stone. Needless to say, I doubt that many Gal scouts took advantage of this particular benefit to the extent that CCP decided it should be nerfed. |
Krom Ganesh
Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire
1091
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Posted - 2014.01.09 14:58:00 -
[4] - Quote
Sana Rayya wrote:I'd be curious to know how many scouts actually used range amplifiers. I did on an alt and wanted to skill this up on my main, but the direction CCP seems to be leaning makes me hesitant to try anything stealth related until 1.8 is set in stone. Needless to say, I doubt that many Gal scouts took advantage of this particular benefit to the extent that CCP decided it should be nerfed.
Range amp fits are the only ones I use now. 2x cmp amps makes an incredibly fun fit that lets me dance circles around mediums.
!
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mr musturd
0uter.Heaven
225
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Posted - 2014.01.09 15:16:00 -
[5] - Quote
Umm gal scout still gets to keep the 5% reduction to profile when minny loses that it will be lit up on almost every scanner out there IMO minny scouts are the ones that should be flipping out |
knight of 6
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
989
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Posted - 2014.01.09 15:20:00 -
[6] - Quote
I approve of this message.
"God favors the side with the best artillery" ~ Napoleon
Ko6, scout, tanker.
CLOSED BETA VET
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance
851
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Posted - 2014.01.09 15:20:00 -
[7] - Quote
mr musturd wrote:Umm gal scout still gets to keep the 5% reduction to profile when minny loses that it will be lit up on almost every scanner out there IMO minny scouts are the ones that should be flipping out
Which is why my proposed "fix" is a buff in scan radius to all scout. And why should the Gal scouts be any less upset.
{:)}{3GÇó>
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DISGRUNTLEDev
Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance
241
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Posted - 2014.01.09 15:20:00 -
[8] - Quote
I usually try to equip one amp, but for city maps I don't feel it's nessecary. But having a working passive radar is very important to my playstyle. I was very disappointed with what I can see is a direct nerf to suits that haven't gotten love in a long time (other than what was basically a pity buff to range of, what?, 6m?) |
OZAROW
Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance
1193
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Posted - 2014.01.09 15:21:00 -
[9] - Quote
mr musturd wrote:Umm gal scout still gets to keep the 5% reduction to profile when minny loses that it will be lit up on almost every scanner out there IMO minny scouts are the ones that should be flipping out This dude is correct
SUPER NOVA KNIFE SAIYAN 4
Oh an a middle finger to Fagqueera Bleuetta=ƒÆ¬
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance
851
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Posted - 2014.01.09 15:21:00 -
[10] - Quote
Oops
{:)}{3GÇó>
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance
851
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Posted - 2014.01.09 15:28:00 -
[11] - Quote
OZAROW wrote:mr musturd wrote:Umm gal scout still gets to keep the 5% reduction to profile when minny loses that it will be lit up on almost every scanner out there IMO minny scouts are the ones that should be flipping out This dude is correct
Why is this an issue? They are both being nerfed. Now all of a sudden the Gal scouts can just go **** themselfs? Wth man? Maybe some of the minjas should get off their buts and figure out a way to save their suits.
{:)}{3GÇó>
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Appia Vibbia
Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance
563
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Posted - 2014.01.09 19:48:00 -
[12] - Quote
Can we just have Chromosome values? Every other suit was buffed from Chromosome to Uprising, while Scouts have only been hit with nerfs.
6 slots. Type-II option. 25m base scan range, 180 melee damage, high base movement and sprint speed.
Appia Vibbia for CPM1
Cass Caul is no longer my alt
[email protected]
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
259
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Posted - 2014.01.09 20:38:00 -
[13] - Quote
Agreed, that's the main reason I began skilling into Gallente Scout, so that I could leverage a truly effective Passive Scan. |
Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
380
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Posted - 2014.01.09 20:41:00 -
[14] - Quote
Sana Rayya wrote:I'd be curious to know how many scouts actually used range amplifiers. I did on an alt and wanted to skill this up on my main, but the direction CCP seems to be leaning makes me hesitant to try anything stealth related until 1.8 is set in stone. Needless to say, I doubt that many Gal scouts took advantage of this particular benefit to the extent that CCP decided it should be nerfed. I also invested quite a few SP into a passive scanning for my Gallente Scout. It's what drives the suit. With two range amps it's as powerful as any other suit in the game, without them it's a mess.
Edit @Son-Of A-Gun: If you expressed the nerf to scanning range in terms of volume covered the numbers would be much higher! You'd arrive at a 44% nerf to scanned volume. Such reduction. Very nerf. Wow. |
Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance
853
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Posted - 2014.01.09 21:02:00 -
[15] - Quote
Stefan Stahl wrote:Sana Rayya wrote:I'd be curious to know how many scouts actually used range amplifiers. I did on an alt and wanted to skill this up on my main, but the direction CCP seems to be leaning makes me hesitant to try anything stealth related until 1.8 is set in stone. Needless to say, I doubt that many Gal scouts took advantage of this particular benefit to the extent that CCP decided it should be nerfed. I also invested quite a few SP into a passive scanning for my Gallente Scout. It's what drives the suit. With two range amps it's as powerful as any other suit in the game, without them it's a mess. Edit @Son-Of A-Gun: If you expressed the nerf to scanning range in terms of volume covered the numbers would be much higher! You'd arrive at a 44% nerf to scanned volume. Such reduction. Very nerf. Wow.
Yes volume, an oversight on my part. Good catch.
I can't give you +2 but if I could I would.
{:)}{3GÇó>
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Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
381
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Posted - 2014.01.09 21:13:00 -
[16] - Quote
Son-Of A-Gun wrote:Stefan Stahl wrote:Sana Rayya wrote:I'd be curious to know how many scouts actually used range amplifiers. I did on an alt and wanted to skill this up on my main, but the direction CCP seems to be leaning makes me hesitant to try anything stealth related until 1.8 is set in stone. Needless to say, I doubt that many Gal scouts took advantage of this particular benefit to the extent that CCP decided it should be nerfed. I also invested quite a few SP into a passive scanning for my Gallente Scout. It's what drives the suit. With two range amps it's as powerful as any other suit in the game, without them it's a mess. Edit @Son-Of A-Gun: If you expressed the nerf to scanning range in terms of volume covered the numbers would be much higher! You'd arrive at a 44% nerf to scanned volume. Such reduction. Very nerf. Wow. Yes volume, an oversight on my part. Good catch. I can't give you +2 but if I could I would. I would like to bring to your attention that the fourdimensional hypersphere of passive scanning is being reduced by 54%! Outrageous! |
Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance
853
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Posted - 2014.01.09 21:14:00 -
[17] - Quote
Stefan Stahl wrote:Son-Of A-Gun wrote:Stefan Stahl wrote:Sana Rayya wrote:I'd be curious to know how many scouts actually used range amplifiers. I did on an alt and wanted to skill this up on my main, but the direction CCP seems to be leaning makes me hesitant to try anything stealth related until 1.8 is set in stone. Needless to say, I doubt that many Gal scouts took advantage of this particular benefit to the extent that CCP decided it should be nerfed. I also invested quite a few SP into a passive scanning for my Gallente Scout. It's what drives the suit. With two range amps it's as powerful as any other suit in the game, without them it's a mess. Edit @Son-Of A-Gun: If you expressed the nerf to scanning range in terms of volume covered the numbers would be much higher! You'd arrive at a 44% nerf to scanned volume. Such reduction. Very nerf. Wow. Yes volume, an oversight on my part. Good catch. I can't give you +2 but if I could I would. I would like to bring to your attention that the fourdimensional hypersphere of passive scanning is being reduced by 54%! Outrageous!
Lol
{:)}{3GÇó>
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention
7731
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Posted - 2014.01.09 21:45:00 -
[18] - Quote
+1.
Seriously, removing the dampening bonuses from the other scouts and nerfing this bonus is a really ****** way of 'showing scouts love', CCP.
Level 7 Forum Warrior
Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution
Gallente FW - 'Turalyon'
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
3254
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Posted - 2014.01.09 22:12:00 -
[19] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:+1.
Seriously, removing the dampening bonuses from the other scouts and nerfing this bonus is a really ****** way of 'showing scouts love', CCP. While also introducing this new GalLogi bonus.
Why? Because CCP
CoD ----->
<----- WoT
Please AR and Tank scrubs, go to your respective games. Leave DUST alone!
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
8
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Posted - 2014.01.09 23:50:00 -
[20] - Quote
I think a good solution to the current problems with scouts is that they don't really have a niche that can't be overrun by assaults or logislayers. My idea would be to increase several innate characteristics of the different racial scout suits.
Gallente-increase base scan precision/range Minmitar-increase base move/sprint speed Caldari- reduction in scan profile(will also probably receive the highest module count of any scout) Amarr-increase in base stamina and stamina regeneration rate
comment your ideas...I even have a whole thread on the ideas of new scout bonuses https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134598&find=unread
Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance
867
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Posted - 2014.01.09 23:52:00 -
[21] - Quote
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:I think a good solution to the current problems with scouts is that they don't really have a niche that can't be overrun by assaults or logislayers. My idea would be to increase several innate characteristics of the different racial scout suits.
Gallente-increase base scan precision/range Minmitar-increase base move/sprint speed Caldari- reduction in scan profile(will also probably receive the highest module count of any scout) Amarr-increase in base stamina and stamina regeneration rate
Gal should get two equipment slots.
{:)}{3GÇó>
Please help me save the Gal scout!:
linky
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Protected Void
Endless Hatred
229
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Posted - 2014.01.10 11:37:00 -
[22] - Quote
I agree that the scan range nerf is annoying. Range amplifiers are the second most important module on my fittings, only beaten by KinCats. Since I can't afford running proto all the time, I play advanced suits 98% of the time. Which means 1 complex range amp. The current scan range is just about ample on that suit. Even just a 3 meter reduction is too much; it would make it exponentially harder to play to my suit's strength.
So yes: if this ends up as the new bonus, the base scan range should definitely be raised to 20 meters. For all scout suits. |
Matticus Monk
Ordus Trismegistus
956
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Posted - 2014.01.10 13:34:00 -
[23] - Quote
Scan range is a major factor in my play style as well. Of the 12 or so standard scout fittings I have, the only ones that don't have range extenders are the 3 deploy fits that have the cardiac regs and the armor reppers.
I actually think that in order to make the suits more viable the range should be 25m now. I used to think 20m would be fine, but if the removal of the scout dampening bonus happens for the other scout suits, then these other suits will probably need to rely more on situational awareness to ensure they select targets they can get the drop on and to navigate between red-dots that can more easily detect them.
W 25m and max skills this puts base scan range at 37.5 for the non G-scouts. Not stellar, but definitely viable. This is especially important for suits with a lower number of low slots like the Minja.
This makes the Gal very, very useful, giving a fully skilled range of 46.8 without using modules. I don't think this game breaking but it certainly is awesome.
Hell man, scouting is about intel - we sacrifice everything for it. Let us get some useful intel to use for how we play our game.... be it infiltration, assassination, creating battlefield chaos or just good old fashioned spying..... all scouts should be able to sense other suits out to past 25 ridiculous meters when fully skilled.
And seriously, what is the point of being able to see past 100m if the TAC net doesn't reach that far anyway....? If a Gal scout can approach that w/ 2 complex range instead of 4... BFD. Now they can maybe have an armor rep and some armor in their other 2 low slots to complement their 87 shields....
We'll still die in less than a second to any rifle user. |
X7 lion
Swamp Marines
66
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Posted - 2014.01.10 13:53:00 -
[24] - Quote
maths whut brain, words borken, scout.... HELP ME!!!!! *mushroom cloud* |
TranquilBiscuit ofVaLoR
F.T.U. IMMORTAL REGIME
1190
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Posted - 2014.01.13 16:38:00 -
[25] - Quote
Sana Rayya wrote:I'd be curious to know how many scouts actually used range amplifiers. I did on an alt and wanted to skill this up on my main, but the direction CCP seems to be leaning makes me hesitant to try anything stealth related until 1.8 is set in stone. Needless to say, I doubt that many Gal scouts took advantage of this particular benefit to the extent that CCP decided it should be nerfed. I know I don't. I don't even have range amps skilled up. it's generally a shield or damage mod in the top and kincats, regulators, and/or armor in the bottom.
Anime > EVERYTHING
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NextDark Knight
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
127
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Posted - 2014.01.13 16:48:00 -
[26] - Quote
You know, you can always use the Standard Light frame for passive scanning. Just saying..
Forge Changes needed Officer Splash 3.0, Proto 2.7 Advanced 2.5 Standard 2.1.
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance
970
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Posted - 2014.01.17 18:31:00 -
[27] - Quote
Thank you.
Scout changes look amazing, especially the Gal.
Good job CCP. 100% satisfied.
{:)}{3GÇó>
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