DUST Search - [Feedback/Request] Basic frames & specializations: differentation & cost

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:

[Specializations]
When Uprising 1.0 launched, I made this thread, basically the point was this:
The logistics and now the commando dropsuit are the only examples of specialization done right as of now. The logistics is very different from the basic mediums; giving up one thing to be very good at (or "specialize") something else. Likewise, the commando heavy specialization sacrifices HP and and the heavy weapon slot in exchange for 2 light weapons.

The majority of what we have right now however are not real specializations, but copy/pasted basics with a bonus added. From medium to assault, from light to scout, and from heavy to sentinel there is barely any change; in fact they are identical except for the addition of the bonus to the specialized suits. This is very bad in my opinion.

Make them useful, or jut remove them. If you remove them, make the basic frame skill unlock the specializations, and make specialization skills just give bonuses instead of unlocking.

[Basic frames]
Basic frames are suits with no reason to use them, we should NOT have useless suits with no purpose, especially since it can't be used to save money since they cost the same as specialized suits. Not only are basic frames bonus-less (thus inferior) versions of specialized suits, but also more expensive. There should be situations where you would actually want to use them, both ISK-wise, and gameplay reasons.

They need a price cut, they should be at least 10% cheaper than their specialized counterpart, they should be the cheaper alternative to specialize suits.

They should be very generalized and versatile in slot layouts compared to their specialist counterparts, like a middle ground between the specializations of the suits; this could be done by altering the basic frames (like medium basics get a 2nd equipment slot and lose a module slot), or by altering the specialist suits (like taking equipment slot from assaults, and grenade slot from logi, so basic will be a middle ground with both).

[Solutions]: these are just examples of how I would solve the issues of price and slot layout.
PRICE: basic frame price = specialization price - 10%

LIGHT
Basic: + 1 high or low slot, -1 equipment slot (& PG/CPU changes needed)
Scout: same
Pilot: ? (not here yet, so can't say)
*alternatively, scouts could have 1 less module slot than they currently do, and basic lights can have only 1 equipment*

MEDIUM
Logi & assault: make them have the same module slot count. No reason why logis should have more at proto, or assaults to have more at standard like they currently do.
Basic frame: + 1 equipment (2 equipment total, between assault and logi), -1 module slot.

HEAVY
Basic: -sidearm, + 1 equipment, maybe -grenade (middle-ground between commando and sentinel)
Sentinel: same
Commando: same

Related dropsuit threads: tiercide | Medium frame (basic/assault/logistics) changes | Basic frame skills

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 10463	Posted - 2014.04.20 18:06:00 - [31] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: Or you could tiercide suits, and give them all custom layouts and bonuses to do a specific role....... My proposal does not contradict tiercide, in fact it would work with tiercide. All basic frames get both militia and standard tier, while specialized ones (like assault, logi, commando, etc) come in only standard tier. The militia tier stuff could be the equivalent of our current advanced suits, and standard can be the equivalent of our current protoype suits. The basic frame skills could get bonuses to justify having 5 levels despite the lack of extra tiers, and have the specialized dropsuits branching off from the basic frames also inherit the basic's bonus in addition to the specialized bonuses (like Amarr medium skill bonus applying to Amarr basic, Amarr assault, and Amarr logi). The custom layout thing is what this thread is about, I want the specialized and basic layouts to be distinct. Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. 1603	Posted - 2014.06.09 14:17:00 - [32] - Quote Another brilliant post, I would only adjust one thing. On the heavy basic I would go +1 equipment slot -1 grenade -1 module. A heavy, who has a very long reload time to deal with on both of it's weapons, needs a sidearm. Having no sidearm would also force forge gunners to HAVE to run a sentinel in order to carry a PDW, which is a little unfair when you consider entry level players picking up the role. PSN ID: AlbelNox2569 Cross Atu for CPM1
The-Errorist SVER True Blood 743	Posted - 2014.06.11 05:17:00 - [33] - Quote Basic frames need to have more HP, same or less speed than logis, and same shield recharge and delay as logis. This would make medium frames like this: Basic - Frontline Tankier and slower frontline mercs that are in-between assaults and logis. Assaults - Slayers Faster, better shield regen stats, and have a role bonus to light weapons. Logistics - Support Slower, better precision, hacking speed, and role bonus to equipment. MAG + Dust cb vet, an alt of Velvet Overkill & Agent Overkill. http://vimeo.com/93181621
Meee One BATTLE SURVEY GROUP Dark Taboo 853	Posted - 2014.06.14 10:34:00 - [34] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: [Specializations] When Uprising 1.0 launched, I made this thread, basically the point was this: The logistics and now the commando dropsuit are the only examples of specialization done right as of now. The logistics is very different from the basic mediums; giving up one thing to be very good at (or "specialize") something else. Likewise, the commando heavy specialization sacrifices HP and and the heavy weapon slot in exchange for 2 light weapons. The majority of what we have right now however are not real specializations, but copy/pasted basics with a bonus added. From medium to assault, from light to scout, and from heavy to sentinel there is barely any change; in fact they are identical except for the addition of the bonus to the specialized suits. This is very bad in my opinion. Make them useful, or jut remove them. If you remove them, make the basic frame skill unlock the specializations, and make specialization skills just give bonuses instead of unlocking. [Basic frames] Basic frames are suits with no reason to use them, we should NOT have useless suits with no purpose, especially since it can't be used to save money since they cost the same as specialized suits. Not only are basic frames bonus-less (thus inferior) versions of specialized suits, but also more expensive. There should be situations where you would actually want to use them, both ISK-wise, and gameplay reasons. They need a price cut, they should be at least 10% cheaper than their specialized counterpart, they should be the cheaper alternative to specialize suits. They should be very generalized and versatile in slot layouts compared to their specialist counterparts, like a middle ground between the specializations of the suits; this could be done by altering the basic frames (like medium basics get a 2nd equipment slot and lose a module slot), or by altering the specialist suits (like taking equipment slot from assaults, and grenade slot from logi, so basic will be a middle ground with both). [Solutions]: these are just examples of how I would solve the issues of price and slot layout. PRICE: basic frame price = specialization price - 10% LIGHT Basic: + 1 high or low slot, -1 equipment slot (& PG/CPU changes needed) Scout: same Pilot: ? (not here yet, so can't say) alternatively, scouts could have 1 less module slot than they currently do, and basic lights can have only 1 equipment MEDIUM Logi & assault: make them have the same module slot count. No reason why logis should have more at proto, or assaults to have more at standard like they currently do. Basic frame: + 1 equipment (2 equipment total, between assault and logi), -1 module slot. HEAVY Basic: -sidearm, + 1 equipment, maybe -grenade (middle-ground between commando and sentinel) Sentinel: same Commando: same Related dropsuit threads: tiercide \| Medium frame (basic/assault/logistics) changes \| Basic frame skills Unless logistics gets a buff i must completely disagree with equal slots at Pro LV. Logis are the weakest and slowest medium frames and aren't combat effective. This insanity is seen no where in Dust but with logistics. Logis should be #1 in hacking. #1 in e-war out of the medium frames. And atleast 2nd only to scouts in speed. Then would equal slots be fair.


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