MLT cooldown = 90sec

With max skills its 67.5sec

Most MLT tank users do not even have this skill at all

90secs to kill it, thats a pretty big ******* window

This is 1.7 thread, January 2014.
(Disclaimer: For sake of simplicity, I'm writing the whole text as if I knew DEVs' intentions as a fact while that information is collected from various sources and derived from module functionality itself.)


We see a lot of tanks and number of militia tanks have multiplied.
The reason is that militia tanks are all isk-cheap, SP-cheap and viable by performance.


They are powerful because CCP design philosophy changed at this vehicle reboot:

• Active modules are new foundation of vehicle operation, they are supposed to be powerful and have long cooldowns.
• The active modules of all tiers have identical power effect (eg hardener -60% and damamod +30%)
• Module tier difference is the cooldown time - and fitting cost.

Therefore CCP vision on differences between tanks and different level players (vehicle juniors vs veterans) is that

Minimal SP tank has quite comparable performance with modules active - this means militia tanks have use and they are not automatically trumped by slightly better tanks. Smart MLT HAV operator can truly wreack havoc - while modules are active.
This all functions as planned and is good.


Standard tier tanks have slight improvements fitting-wise. One extra slot and extra PG+CPU, even though amounts are conservative, are a big advantage. This enables STD tanks utilise higher tier modules better.
This seems to be okay - tiericide is good and MLT tanks are acceptable exception.


The big supposed difference between tanks is that cooldowns are way higher on MLT tanks because of lower tier modules fitted there.
This is supposed to defince MLT tank roles as having limited usablitity as they have to spend half or more of match recovering, meaning MLT tanks cannot be a tool for total battlefield control. They are supposed to be extra help, temporary and even disposable.
This is NOT the case, militia tanks are practically as usable as general use tanks on field as specced tanks. This is what's wrong.


What is wrong is that lower tier (MLT) module cooldowns are too short. Maybe for all tanks and modules enabling them to keep on rolling and dominating, but MLT tanks with zero investment are able to come back killing way too soon.


Note: Currently MLT and STD modules' only difference is their fitting cost.
On many cases the experienced tanker happily uses MLT module if he has extra room.
And, with zero SP can MLT module user get standard performance.




[SUGGESTION:] Increase cooldowns of all active modules, especially MLT.
a) increase all active module cooldowns by amount comparable to +50% or +30s.
b) Differentiate MLT and STD modules more than just fitting costs: add more cooldown.
c) unrelated possible nerf need: 10% efficacy amount reduction to active hardeners and damamods. Not necessarily needed, first the above should be implemented.



SUMMARY:It is great that militia tanks are not automatical losers and they can not be popped by looking at with AV/tank.
All tanks have too little need to hide in cover vulnerable. This is most blatant on MLT tanks.
Increase cooldowns to fix this.

This is 1.7 thread, January 2014.
(Disclaimer: For sake of simplicity, I'm writing the whole text as if I knew DEVs' intentions as a fact while that information is collected from various sources and derived from module functionality itself.)


We see a lot of tanks and number of militia tanks have multiplied.
The reason is that militia tanks are all isk-cheap, SP-cheap and viable by performance.


They are powerful because CCP design philosophy changed at this vehicle reboot:

• Active modules are new foundation of vehicle operation, they are supposed to be powerful and have long cooldowns.
• The active modules of all tiers have identical power effect (eg hardener -60% and damamod +30%)
• Module tier difference is the cooldown time - and fitting cost.

Therefore CCP vision on differences between tanks and different level players (vehicle juniors vs veterans) is that

Minimal SP tank has quite comparable performance with modules active - this means militia tanks have use and they are not automatically trumped by slightly better tanks. Smart MLT HAV operator can truly wreack havoc - while modules are active.
This all functions as planned and is good.


Standard tier tanks have slight improvements fitting-wise. One extra slot and extra PG+CPU, even though amounts are conservative, are a big advantage. This enables STD tanks utilise higher tier modules better.
This seems to be okay - tiericide is good and MLT tanks are acceptable exception.


The big supposed difference between tanks is that cooldowns are way higher on MLT tanks because of lower tier modules fitted there.
This is supposed to defince MLT tank roles as having limited usablitity as they have to spend half or more of match recovering, meaning MLT tanks cannot be a tool for total battlefield control. They are supposed to be extra help, temporary and even disposable.
This is NOT the case, militia tanks are practically as usable as general use tanks on field as specced tanks. This is what's wrong.


What is wrong is that lower tier (MLT) module cooldowns are too short. Maybe for all tanks and modules enabling them to keep on rolling and dominating, but MLT tanks with zero investment are able to come back killing way too soon.


Note: Currently MLT and STD modules' only difference is their fitting cost.
On many cases the experienced tanker happily uses MLT module if he has extra room.
And, with zero SP can MLT module user get standard performance.





[SUGGESTION:] Increase cooldowns of all active modules, especially MLT.
a) increase all active module cooldowns by amount comparable to +50% or +30s.
b) Differentiate MLT and STD modules more than just fitting costs: add more cooldown.
c) unrelated possible nerf need: 10% efficacy amount reduction to active hardeners and damamods. Not necessarily needed, first the above should be implemented.



SUMMARY:It is great that militia tanks are not automatical losers and they can not be popped by looking at with AV/tank.
All tanks have too little need to hide in cover vulnerable. This is most blatant on MLT tanks.
Increase cooldowns to fix this.

I have to disagree with longer cool downs and also with CCP designs with fashioning tank production around mods .

First of all like J said , they would just call in another tank and me for one , wouldn't blame them . The skill set gives you 5% which is great but the fact that you have to drive around with longer cool down times as a sitting duck , makes the mods and the skill set increases worthless and also the amount of skill points placed into the portion to acquire the " best " mods .

It's not a crime for something that's militia to be able to compete on the battlefield but for this community it is and it shows that most do not want " true " competition in this game . They would like their skill points to dictate and regain an insurmountable edge over any and every one who isn't anywhere near their level . That might be good for those who have been here for a while but for newer players and even more so those who are trying this game for the first time it would be hard fetched to retain newer player numbers and that's something that we all can agree upon as CCP is having a hard time doing and I'm sure as a business , they care about that . Look people , those who want this game ported to the PS4 which will happen in the next two to three years , need to understand that this is a business first and foremost and to hit the ground running is something that needs to be done and that can only happen with numbers .

Talk all you want about the fact ( and it's not true ) that CCP is missing out on the PS4 community but it isn't even that large first of all and second , this game has major problems that are being worked on as we speak , hell the basic's of this game isn't even solid and those who are starting need more instructions and the way it's going is not enough . Porting would only embarrass this company even more than it is already and lead even more people to question their intentions and dedication also they would need to increase their work force and most complain about CCP Shanghai , now do you really think that's a good ideal ??? Get the little things right first and build off of that .

Increasing cool downs would make many a greater sitting duck and I can hear the spam attack of the community right now about that and would dwindle the tank interest and wouldn't justify the massive amount of skill points needed to compete or to even gain access to items like turrets , hulls and mods . This is just a bad ideal and would do more harm than good . Think about it , the damage resistance is not in the hulls ( like it should be ) it's in and from the mods and with needed changes to AV you might bring an even worst situation than pre 1.7 .

Stop bashing militia tanks , it's the ONLY thing militia that's worth something and this is needed . The level of competition must be increased so this game can have a better battlefield experience and players won't leave . They need to find things in this game that make since , that doesn't question someone's intelligence , that brings a since of believe ability and that they can't find in any other game . Right now that's not being done .

Making this game easier is not the answer , increasing the level of competition is the right way to increase numbers and keep them solid .

Please read the OP post again.


I'm actually defending militia tanks and modules from being nerfed in a harder way, by the effectiveness nerf (which would mean that once veteran tank and junior tank go heads up, the winner is almost always veteran.)
The 'full power, long cooldown' philosophy is opposite to that.

I'm advocating for CCP to stay on course and and MLT tanks to be almost as powerful, but deny the continous field dominance.


Also, having resistances in module activation and weakness at other times is a great design. Permanent hull resistances would be a step back.

As far a militia tanks having dominance , I see that as only being when that is the only tank in the match . Bring up a Maddy or a Gunner with advanced or prototype equipment and you will soon see the militia tanks disappear and this is a known fact .

I think the real problem with the cooldown time lies in the fact that everyone and their dogs decides to re-call the tank before the hardners leave their cooldown state, which effective destroys the whole "waves of opportunity" ideal.

I think that having modules stay in the state even when recalled is an order. This way, your mods are still on cooldown even if you recall and call another one in.

I think that having modules stay in the state even when recalled is an order. This way, your mods are still on cooldown even if you recall and call another one in.

As far a militia tanks having dominance , I see that as only being when that is the only tank in the match . Bring up a Maddy or a Gunner with advanced or prototype equipment and you will soon see the militia tanks disappear and this is a known fact .

maybe allow recall when modules are not in 'active' or 'cooldown' state.

I think the real problem with the cooldown time lies in the fact that everyone and their dogs decides to re-call the tank before the hardners leave their cooldown state, which effective destroys the whole "waves of opportunity" ideal.

I think that having modules stay in the state even when recalled is an order. This way, your mods are still on cooldown even if you recall and call another one in.

Increasing cooldowns won't solve the problem. Instead, people will just call in a fresh new tank ready to stomp again with the effectiveness of a proto fit tank.

We need to bring tiered modules back, and/or increase the SP gap by adding bonuses to skills. A MLT tank should NOT be as effective as a proto fit tank. Someone with 0 SP should NOT receive 60% resists or 30% damage bonus. Closing the gap between fresh and experienced tankers was a bad idea because it brought along with it noobs that don't want to invest SP but still own the field.

If a fresh pilot really wanted to learn how to tank, they'd put up with their ineffectiveness until they got better. I was running a Sica mostly back in Chromosome when the Sagaris and Surya would eat me up for a snack. But I was able to learn how to avoid them and how to even make them run. All of these new tankers in 1.7 are receiving a massive crutch that we experienced tankers never had.

Gaps help to improve players. Removing the gap and there's little reason to improve.

This is a good thread. I don't think your solution fixes the whole picture, but it's a great discussion and I'd love to make sure it gets bumped.