DUST Search - most simple logi balance ever

Zatara Rought wrote:

Killar-12 wrote:

Logi Bro wrote:

Atiim wrote:

Logi Bro wrote:

You could also make the logi a light suit. That would drive assault minded players away like crazy.

While I do enjoy running Scouts, I can guarrantee that making Logis a Light Frame is a terrible idea.

What happens when you need to rep someone in a gunfight? You'd last about .25 seconds.

.....The base health on the Minlogi is only a slight bit higher than scouts, does that discourage Minlogi's?

No, it doesn't, you should rethink that argument. People would still brick-tank the logi suits, but the end-result would be less health that what we currently have. Also, since light suits get less CPU/PG and less slots than the Med frames, overall it would be a nerf in the correct direction. Less combat power, more tactical power.

Why not improve the Assault
Logis are Good
Heavies are Good
Scouts are Sucky
Assaults are Sucky

2 broke
2 effective
lets just make 4 of them effective
not 3 of them broke 1 effective

Considering I know many of the best players prefer to have an assault suit over a logi suit...this makes no sense.

Only 1 logi needs a slight nerf aside from removing the 5 reps/s general nerf I've always agreed was in order (or buff the other suits to have this as well innate):

the min logi.

And only because the base move speed is 2 high imo.

Scouts that only engage 1v1 from the flank the way scouts should...dominate. Scouts that run 700 armor on gallenete's, can still play.

Think of the best players in dust and you find interesting conclusions:

Regnyum: Amarr Assault
Kalente: Caldari Assault
Alldin: Gallente Assault
A **** ton of SCR gods: Amarr Assault

Is it because they are all idiots who can't understand logi's are better? even though they all have 30+ mill sp?

or perhaps, just maybe, could you be mistaken.

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Asha Starwind VEXALATION CORPORATION Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage 25	Posted - 2014.01.03 05:51:00 - [31] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: Asha Starwind wrote: I'm up for cutting CPU/PG on logi suits, I don't understand why they're given more to begin with but you lost me at buffing assault suits not that I'm complaining. Because assault don't have to fit proto equips. Aside from min logi's assault can get better tank/gank with a better move speed and stamina. When allotek hives cost 1/2 of the 88 they are now (roughly 1/5 of a fully specced logi's cpu) and 16 pg (roughly 1/6 of pg) then you can nerf the cpu/pg. Logi's and assaults are actually pretty damn balanced atm. Assaults kill me just fine, and they transition to the 2nd and 3rd kill much better due to the bonus's given to assaults (faster for longer, shorter shield regen time, and sidearms). Read on, bro. You're a whole page behind. EDIT: But honestly there are 4 pieces logi-oriented equipment in the game, a logi should be limited to bring 3 of PRO eq in to combat or mix and match to bring 4.
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution 2018	Posted - 2014.01.03 05:54:00 - [32] - Quote Killar-12 wrote: Logi Bro wrote: Atiim wrote: Logi Bro wrote: You could also make the logi a light suit. That would drive assault minded players away like crazy. While I do enjoy running Scouts, I can guarrantee that making Logis a Light Frame is a terrible idea. What happens when you need to rep someone in a gunfight? You'd last about .25 seconds. .....The base health on the Minlogi is only a slight bit higher than scouts, does that discourage Minlogi's? No, it doesn't, you should rethink that argument. People would still brick-tank the logi suits, but the end-result would be less health that what we currently have. Also, since light suits get less CPU/PG and less slots than the Med frames, overall it would be a nerf in the correct direction. Less combat power, more tactical power. Why not improve the Assault Logis are Good Heavies are Good Scouts are Sucky Assaults are Sucky 2 broke 2 effective lets just make 4 of them effective not 3 of them broke 1 effective Considering I know many of the best players prefer to have an assault suit over a logi suit...this makes no sense. Only 1 logi needs a slight nerf aside from removing the 5 reps/s general nerf I've always agreed was in order (or buff the other suits to have this as well innate): the min logi. And only because the base move speed is 2 high imo. Scouts that only engage 1v1 from the flank the way scouts should...dominate. Scouts that run 700 armor on gallenete's, can still play. Think of the best players in dust and you find interesting conclusions: Regnyum: Amarr Assault Kalente: Caldari Assault Alldin: Gallente Assault A **** ton of SCR gods: Amarr Assault Is it because they are all idiots who can't understand logi's are better? even though they all have 30+ mill sp? or perhaps, just maybe, could you be mistaken. Master naders: Geniuses at evening the odds. Favorite Skype: Zatara.Rought
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 2974	Posted - 2014.01.03 05:56:00 - [33] - Quote Asha Starwind wrote: Six kin repair tool and an ADV injector, they don't have to be all PRO eq. to be used just as effectively, budget bro. To be as effective as possible, yes you do need all proto equipment. But hey, let's "budget" like you said. Next time I hop into PC or FW I'll just bring a Militia Repair Tool. See how well that works out. Most hated person since Lueko and Checkmate AV is easy huh? Talk is cheap.
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution 2022	Posted - 2014.01.03 06:00:00 - [34] - Quote I run an advanced CR in PC (or specialist if I can find the time) because I want to run 4 proto equips. and advanced nades or basic flux's. Logi's have distinct disadvantages. Master naders: Geniuses at evening the odds. Favorite Skype: Zatara.Rought
Killar-12 The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 1941	Posted - 2014.01.03 06:13:00 - [35] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: Killar-12 wrote: Logi Bro wrote: Atiim wrote: Logi Bro wrote: You could also make the logi a light suit. That would drive assault minded players away like crazy. While I do enjoy running Scouts, I can guarrantee that making Logis a Light Frame is a terrible idea. What happens when you need to rep someone in a gunfight? You'd last about .25 seconds. .....The base health on the Minlogi is only a slight bit higher than scouts, does that discourage Minlogi's? No, it doesn't, you should rethink that argument. People would still brick-tank the logi suits, but the end-result would be less health that what we currently have. Also, since light suits get less CPU/PG and less slots than the Med frames, overall it would be a nerf in the correct direction. Less combat power, more tactical power. Why not improve the Assault Logis are Good Heavies are Good Scouts are Sucky Assaults are Sucky 2 broke 2 effective lets just make 4 of them effective not 3 of them broke 1 effective Considering I know many of the best players prefer to have an assault suit over a logi suit...this makes no sense. Only 1 logi needs a slight nerf aside from removing the 5 reps/s general nerf I've always agreed was in order (or buff the other suits to have this as well innate): the min logi. And only because the base move speed is 2 high imo. Scouts that only engage 1v1 from the flank the way scouts should...dominate. Scouts that run 700 armor on gallenete's, can still play. Think of the best players in dust and you find interesting conclusions: Regnyum: Amarr Assault Kalente: Caldari Assault Alldin: Gallente Assault A **** ton of SCR gods: Amarr Assault Is it because they are all idiots who can't understand logi's are better? even though they all have 30+ mill sp? or perhaps, just maybe, could you be mistaken. That's 3 players and 1 generalized group I'll bite on, look at your team's composition and see how many assults and how many logis there are. The player makes the player Sentient kicks ass with the plasma cannon, doesn't make the PLC a good weapon... A-Teams win Battles B-Teams win Campaigns C-Teams win Wars
m twiggz Pradox One Proficiency V. 222	Posted - 2014.01.03 06:14:00 - [36] - Quote Asha Starwind wrote: I'm up for cutting CPU/PG on logi suits, I don't understand why they're given more to begin with but you lost me at buffing assault suits not that I'm complaining. Logis have more PG/CPU to be able to fill their equipment slots. Relatively simple concept.
The Robot Devil Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 1354	Posted - 2014.01.03 06:18:00 - [37] - Quote Move the bonuses to the suit and not the skill. Take the logi rep bonus and give them a more racial bonus geared toward the logi role. GÇ£No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride." Hunter S. Thompson
Asha Starwind VEXALATION CORPORATION Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage 26	Posted - 2014.01.03 06:31:00 - [38] - Quote m twiggz wrote: Asha Starwind wrote: I'm up for cutting CPU/PG on logi suits, I don't understand why they're given more to begin with but you lost me at buffing assault suits not that I'm complaining. Logis have more PG/CPU to be able to fill their equipment slots. Relatively simple concept. Two page thread and you stopped reading there, go back and read the stuff between your comment and that post. I hope that it's not too hard.
ZeHealingHurts HurtingHeals Seituoda Taskforce Command 971	Posted - 2014.01.03 06:42:00 - [39] - Quote If CPU/PG on logs is taken down to a certain level, they all better get the Gallente Racial bonus. I'm not sure what that threshold is, but that's what meh tinks. Lore-wise: Calamari are my preferred. Amarricans are my despised. Importantly: Frogs n' Brutes have all my stuff...
Asha Starwind VEXALATION CORPORATION Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage 26	Posted - 2014.01.03 06:57:00 - [40] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: Asha Starwind wrote: Chimichanga66605 wrote: Asha Starwind wrote: I'm up for cutting CPU/PG on logi suits, I don't understand why they're given more to begin with but you lost me at buffing assault suits not that I'm complaining. More CPU/PG for all the equipment we carry. Billshut, with the exception of the amarrlogi, lack of a sidearm slot frees up that CPU/PG Proto link = 72 cpu. that's one proto equip...name a sidearm that's going to let me free up 72 cpu. oh yeah...we hae at least 3 equip slots... I'll bite, simply because I don't need. The Allotek stables are 48pg, if you want your uplinks with a second quicker spawn time, spawn 5 more guys before they give out then that it is what it is a want not a need.

Johnny Guilt Algintal Core 408	Posted - 2014.01.03 07:09:00 - [41] - Quote why not give a slight CPU/PG bonus per level for assault suits to have more room for better quality mods? let the logis have the slots and maybe a equipment reduction bonus added with equpiment being mandatory to fil for a fit A strange game. The only winning move is not to play.
SteelheadPep SAM-MIK 20	Posted - 2014.01.03 09:11:00 - [42] - Quote Many slayers used the Cal logi suit, so CCP nerfed it due to posts like this. This left us support logis with a gimped suit that is difficult to fit adv/proto equip with a base weapon.Some slayers moved on to other logi suits so now certain people are upset with them again.It worked the first time so here we are throwing the baby out with the bath water again.Oh and before you start spewing about that logis should only be using a paper clip and a banana to defend themselves, how would you like to spend 50-60 thousand ISk a suit and have to use a starter weapon? Right I didn't think so, keep up the witch hunt you are nerfing us support logis out of existence.
The Infected One Fatal Absolution 561	Posted - 2014.01.03 09:12:00 - [43] - Quote If this is about stacking damage mods. Simple solution, remove logi suits ability to place a damage mod on the suit. Thus removing the whole uber damage mod stacked logislayers. I personally place precision enhancers or shield extenders on my logi suits, and now that shield extenders have a drawback with the recharge delay its a little more balanced. With this setup, the assault suits can stack damage mods at the expense of EHP tank, since they now have logies that cant stack damage mods to out perform them as assaults. Logies now have the support role to keep the assaults alive and stocked with ammo, while still helping with the fight with their primary weapons without damage mods. Assaults are faster than logies, so the logies still need the tank to stay alive in the fight because they cant get to cover as easily/quickly Logies get the tank, assaults get the pure dps and in a 1 on 1 assault vs logi of comparable equipment it now becomes more balanced and more about skill. CLEAR THE AREA BEFORE GOING FOR THE REVIVE!
TheWee BabySeamus Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 73	Posted - 2014.01.03 09:20:00 - [44] - Quote Charlotte O'Dell wrote: Equalize logi and assault slot count and CPU/PG Now assaults will be more powerful, but will still rely on logis to carry them through extended engagements. If that does not work, we can work from there, but it is a good start. Do not allow Logi suits to use DMG mods and make them fill every equipment slot. that's a good starting point Wee Baby Seamus-------------->DDB Director & #1 Sex chat operator
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1286	Posted - 2014.01.03 20:55:00 - [45] - Quote The Infected One wrote: If this is about stacking damage mods. Simple solution, remove logi suits ability to place a damage mod on the suit. Thus removing the whole uber damage mod stacked logislayers. I personally place precision enhancers or shield extenders on my logi suits, and now that shield extenders have a drawback with the recharge delay its a little more balanced. With this setup, the assault suits can stack damage mods at the expense of EHP tank, since they now have logies that cant stack damage mods to out perform them as assaults. Logies now have the support role to keep the assaults alive and stocked with ammo, while still helping with the fight with their primary weapons without damage mods. Assaults are faster than logies, so the logies still need the tank to stay alive in the fight because they cant get to cover as easily/quickly Logies get the tank, assaults get the pure dps and in a 1 on 1 assault vs logi of comparable equipment it now becomes more balanced and more about skill. I do like the idea that logis couldn't equip damage mods. Perhaps restricting the to 1 damage mod would be good? It would at least make assault suits more appealing to slayers. If that isn't enough, restrict them completely. But then we run into another problem. Armor oriented suits would be practically forced to use shield extenders. An easy fix to that would be adding an armor mod to high slots, I think armor hardeners would be great. Fizzer94 // Level 1 Forum Warrior // PLASMA CANNONS ARE REALLY* BAD NOW, FIX THEM!*
Jastad D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 357	Posted - 2014.01.03 21:03:00 - [46] - Quote Easy as breathe, Make equip slot mandatory for fittings. Problem solved. And if this is not enough, simply make mandatory that ONE of the equip is on the same meta as the suit. With this you kill brick tankers with dmg mod and you don't nerf to hell people who use logi in the right way. Once you try "HMG-FAT" you never get back...
The Infected One Fatal Absolution 563	Posted - 2014.01.03 21:06:00 - [47] - Quote Fizzer94 wrote: The Infected One wrote: If this is about stacking damage mods. Simple solution, remove logi suits ability to place a damage mod on the suit. Thus removing the whole uber damage mod stacked logislayers. I personally place precision enhancers or shield extenders on my logi suits, and now that shield extenders have a drawback with the recharge delay its a little more balanced. With this setup, the assault suits can stack damage mods at the expense of EHP tank, since they now have logies that cant stack damage mods to out perform them as assaults. Logies now have the support role to keep the assaults alive and stocked with ammo, while still helping with the fight with their primary weapons without damage mods. Assaults are faster than logies, so the logies still need the tank to stay alive in the fight because they cant get to cover as easily/quickly Logies get the tank, assaults get the pure dps and in a 1 on 1 assault vs logi of comparable equipment it now becomes more balanced and more about skill. I do like the idea that logis couldn't equip damage mods. Perhaps restricting the to 1 damage mod would be good? It would at least make assault suits more appealing to slayers. If that isn't enough, restrict them completely. But then we run into another problem. Armor oriented suits would be practically forced to use shield extenders. An easy fix to that would be adding an armor mod to high slots, I think armor hardeners would be great. That could work, and I agree that the choices for high slots are rather limited, armor hardeners would be one idea, but that would create the outcry for shield hardeners as well. That also might be an alright idea. Upon further thought on this subject I have come to the ideas that perhaps some module to speed up the armor rep rate could go in high slots as long as they aren't outrageous numbers, much like the shield regulators reducing the depleted recharge start time being low slots, and only actually function IF the user has an armor rep mod on his suit (Does not effect the logistics natural 5/s rep rate) and only a % of the total rep rate from mods on the suit. 20>25>30% upscale from the regulators because the armor rep rate per mod is much lower (The change would be small for someone just running a single basic, but would help people running 2 complex). Maybe make them like the energizers, give a higher boost to rep rate at the cost of a small % of total armor. Just throwing out ideas instead of the typical "THIS MUST BE NERFED NOW!" thoughts. CLEAR THE AREA BEFORE GOING FOR THE REVIVE!
jerrmy12 kahoalii Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic 221	Posted - 2014.01.03 21:11:00 - [48] - Quote Asha Starwind wrote: I'm up for cutting CPU/PG on logi suits, I don't understand why they're given more to begin with but you lost me at buffing assault suits not that I'm complaining. EDIT: [HINT] This thread is going on 3 pages now... ...for the dense people, before you stop to reply, read through page 2 before replying to this comment. caldari assault gets 4 shotted and has bzd recharge compared to how it should be, too long recharge delay with 2 complex regulaters gal assault regen too low recuruit link 25 to 30 mil isk per 100k recuruit I use a tablet so beware of typo
lee corwood Knights Of Ender Public Disorder. 302	Posted - 2014.01.03 21:29:00 - [49] - Quote As a pure Logisis, i don't run damage mods. I like using my min logi the right way and like I've said in forums before. My krd is **** poor, I won't help you kill much of anything, but I support well and that's what I love. We brick ourselves because more often than not, we don't have a gun in our hands. I'm like a flea trying to get into cover. I'd be perfectly fine removing dmg mods from the suit, but honestly why remove equipment. You're hurting your own team by taking away equipment from your own supporters. You guys are seeing red over the misuse of this suit that you're willing to kill the support role a lot of people complain enough of us don't run (I can't tell you how often I get yelled at to revive, put down uplinks and give ammo, and then at the same time get yelled at for reviving people without a rep tool). We can carry it all, but most of the time, I'm only carrying the 3 out of 4 vital equipments because with ttk the way it is now, I can't afford to lose a 200k suit every match. Before we go crying for nerfs anywhere, this game is in some severe need of a business strategy review to get the infrastructure complete. We're missing loads of content and right now, balance is a joke. CCP doesn't know where its going yet and until all that is figured out, we're just along for the ride. Minmatar Logisis \| Heavy lover. Come get some badass Band-Aids from this chick
Skihids Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2626	Posted - 2014.01.03 21:52:00 - [50] - Quote I run a support Mini Logi and I use up all my fitting with equipment and a bit of tank. I love the MD, but frequently swap it out for the STD AR to save on PG/CPU. I'm not shooting much anyway as I spend the majority of the match carefully placing uplinks to keep you spawning in at the front rather than hiking for a full minute and supplying you with armor repping/triage hives to keep you effective. If you reduced my PG/CPU you would have to give me the GAL equipment bonus to make up for it. I wouldn't mind that as it would be a wash for an equipment intensive fitting. I've got the CAL assault, but don't bother with the ADV or PRO due to the sort TTK. I'll occasionally run the STD Raven suit if my team has no need of my services (they've redlined or been redlined). I'm all for removing Damage Mod stacking from all suits.



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