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Free Beers Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1639	Posted - 2014.01.01 20:45:00 - [1] - Quote Full Disclaimer: I have a sniper toon, I red line camp, and I even sniped from mcc with damage mod suit when the shield could be shot thru. I have been a terrible sniper in every other fps games I played, but dust is easy mode. I have come to the conclusion that snipers in dust are broken and are more detrimental to the over game play than beneficial. 1.To me dust is about visible combat. In sockets most combat is in rifle range. Most open spaces between sockets have hills or rocks that allow for somewhat save moment (big improvement over previous super flat maps). Bad enough I have to bob and weave the 10 tanks about. 2.In Dust there is a balance ccp is trying to achieve between damage and ehp. Snipers are not required to make this choice. If you are a sniper and donGÇÖt use 3 damage modes, armor plates, sit on armor hives you are just doing it wrong. Remember its alpha damage not dps here so you just need 1 shot normally ( I pick off people already damaged because its lulz) 3.Hit scan. Really? Can you make this gun any easier. 4.Head Glitch. Kids if you donGÇÖt know what this is ask your parents 5.Level design has undue burden of restricting snipers from having over watch. Are any of you tired of having to deal with fences around stuff (I understand a lot of the fences were put it to protect old sockets from sniper camping. The newer sockets are much better design (Shout out to CCP LogicLoop and CCP Tigris)) <--- can't you tell i have written code 6.Bowl maps. 7.Making scrubs on your team that are terrible stop redline camping and not doing ** 8.Did I mention redline camping? Now I do think the redline needs to go in some cases but this will reduce redline campers greatly. 9.Lastly if you removed snipers from dust there isnGÇÖt one aspect of the game that is missed. So there you have it. You may agree with me, add to my list, disagree, or offer the pro of snipers in dust. Now donGÇÖt get all bent out of shape or just call me a bunch of names (mainly because I donGÇÖt give a **). [CCP]FoxFour> STFU beers[CCP]FoxFour> Erm[CCP]FoxFour> I mean[CCP]FoxFour> shit[CCP]FoxFour> you were defending me
Leonid Tybalt Dark Knightz Corp. 78	Posted - 2014.01.01 20:55:00 - [2] - Quote Sorry you snipers (even using underhanded tactics like redline camping) don't really bother me. At the very most you guys tend to earn no more than 600-1000 warpoints in a match (if you are GOOD that is). Meanwhile, vanguard frontline troopers like myself tend to always make warpoints in the ranges of 1200-2000+ warpoints in the matches we participate in. So snipers dont really bother me honestly. You're not getting the lions share of the profits so you can stick to sniping all you like with my blessing. Also it's fun to sneak up behind you and melee-kill you or execute you with a scrambler pistol when you sit there squatting with tunnel vision in some other direction like a dork. XD
Asha Starwind VEXALATION CORPORATION Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage 9	Posted - 2014.01.01 20:59:00 - [3] - Quote Dude, why'd you reply it's got troll post written all over it. Don't feed.
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1370	Posted - 2014.01.01 21:06:00 - [4] - Quote I disagree, Dust isn't about visible combat. Its All Out War. Sniprs are a part of war, its just about tactics, snipers are a tactic and a very good one. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Free Beers Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1640	Posted - 2014.01.01 21:10:00 - [5] - Quote Asha Starwind wrote: Dude, why'd you reply it's got troll post written all over it. Don't feed. It's not a troll post. If you cant discuss things you can go back to the kiddie table [CCP]FoxFour> STFU beers[CCP]FoxFour> Erm[CCP]FoxFour> I mean[CCP]FoxFour> shit[CCP]FoxFour> you were defending me
Tectonic Fusion 910	Posted - 2014.01.01 21:10:00 - [6] - Quote Leonid Tybalt wrote: Sorry you snipers (even using underhanded tactics like redline camping) don't really bother me. At the very most you guys tend to earn no more than 600-1000 warpoints in a match (if you are GOOD that is). Meanwhile, vanguard frontline troopers like myself tend to always make warpoints in the ranges of 1200-2000+ warpoints in the matches we participate in. So snipers dont really bother me honestly. You're not getting the lions share of the profits so you can stick to sniping all you like with my blessing. Also it's fun to sneak up behind you and melee-kill you or execute you with a scrambler pistol when you sit there squatting with tunnel vision in some other direction like a dork. XD I execute my own team by calling a tank on them... Solo Player Squad status: Locked
Free Beers Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1640	Posted - 2014.01.01 21:11:00 - [7] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: I disagree, Dust isn't about visible combat. Its All Out War. Sniprs are a part of war, its just about tactics, snipers are a tactic and a very good one. Just like black ops tanks, just like LLAVs, just like proto tanks. Man you are so right, thanks for helping me see the light [CCP]FoxFour> STFU beers[CCP]FoxFour> Erm[CCP]FoxFour> I mean[CCP]FoxFour> shit[CCP]FoxFour> you were defending me
ReGnYuM Imperfects 1658	Posted - 2014.01.01 21:27:00 - [8] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: I disagree, Dust isn't about visible combat. Its All Out War. Sniprs are a part of war, its just about tactics, snipers are a tactic and a very good one. Explain to me why I should have a sniper in PC? Official Imperfect Title: Supreme Leader of the Endless Sunset To the Matari, I am the equivalent to the Boogie Man
fragmentedhackslash FREE AGENTS LP 87	Posted - 2014.01.01 21:28:00 - [9] - Quote Fact of the matter is, not many snipers can guarentee 25+ kills every map they land upon, so whats the issue here? Scout, 1st set of proto safe spotted uplinks, then get shot in the back while hacking with 4 blues watching me Scout, 2nd and 3rd set of uplinks. Again get shot in the back with blues standing around trying to high five each other like in DAY-Z If I don't see a decent heavy in the killfeed, or a squad that needs my support, yeah I'll snipe but I tell you what, I never go back to the merc quarters without 20+ dogtags and top of the board. Pain is just weakness leaving your body. Every day is a holiday. Every meal is a feast.
Leonid Tybalt Dark Knightz Corp. 79	Posted - 2014.01.01 21:30:00 - [10] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: I disagree, Dust isn't about visible combat. Its All Out War. Sniprs are a part of war, its just about tactics, snipers are a tactic and a very good one. Explain to me why I should have a sniper in PC? They're useful for guarding hacked objectives. In some maps one sniper can keep two objectives safe from being hacked +Ñt once as long as the sniper knows of the sweet spots to camp.

CYRAX SERVIUS Death Firm. Canis Eliminatus Operatives 419	Posted - 2014.01.01 21:35:00 - [11] - Quote There are no proto tanks at this time but I think advanced tanks are coming back. Depending on the map a GOOD sniper, and I mean a really GOOD sniper can give you letter denial on a key letter between opposing spawn points. CEO Invictus Maneo~ "I remain unvanquished"
Free Beers Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1640	Posted - 2014.01.01 21:37:00 - [12] - Quote fragmentedhackslash wrote: Fact of the matter is, not many snipers can guarentee 25+ kills every map they land upon, so whats the issue here? Scout, 1st set of proto safe spotted uplinks, then get shot in the back while hacking with 4 blues watching me Scout, 2nd and 3rd set of uplinks. Again get shot in the back with blues standing around trying to high five each other like in DAY-Z If I don't see a decent heavy in the killfeed, or a squad that needs my support, yeah I'll snipe but I tell you what, I never go back to the merc quarters without 20+ dogtags and top of the board. Kills are important but I am and always been a suport player in dust. I hardly pay attention to how many a sniper does or does not have. It's more about contributing to game play. I have had the chance to play with some very good snipers in dust. That will communicate intel, cover you hacking, cover an objective, actually be able to support the team as a sniper. Those are few and far between though. sniper is a crutch for the low skill or poor players a lot. As you pointed out if your team sucks you go snipe which is exactly what i do. Which I have found soon as a few players do that you bascially give up the match instead of fight for it. This is compounded greatly in fw when you lose isk. Every player that goes and camps as a sniper takes another player off the field. [CCP]FoxFour> STFU beers[CCP]FoxFour> Erm[CCP]FoxFour> I mean[CCP]FoxFour> shit[CCP]FoxFour> you were defending me
fragmentedhackslash FREE AGENTS LP 87	Posted - 2014.01.01 21:37:00 - [13] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: I disagree, Dust isn't about visible combat. Its All Out War. Sniprs are a part of war, its just about tactics, snipers are a tactic and a very good one. Explain to me why I should have a sniper in PC? Heavys and Assaults in armor before you see them, forge gunners, no problems, you want tactical information about anything at anytime? Ask the pro sniper what the next move is. Incomming hardware and its location? Tankers know how valuable this is, some scout is flanku... dead. Yep She's Dead & Danja Dom will tell you of a fragmented score of 30/1 in PC , that 1 took 2 Pythons and a Charybidis with 2 Heavys , everyone redline suicided including the Pythons. They NEEDED to stop me. Pain is just weakness leaving your body. Every day is a holiday. Every meal is a feast.
Free Beers Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1641	Posted - 2014.01.01 21:40:00 - [14] - Quote Leonid Tybalt wrote: ReGnYuM wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: I disagree, Dust isn't about visible combat. Its All Out War. Sniprs are a part of war, its just about tactics, snipers are a tactic and a very good one. Explain to me why I should have a sniper in PC? They're useful for guarding hacked objectives. In some maps one sniper can keep two objectives safe from being hacked +Ñt once as long as the sniper knows of the sweet spots to camp. If you look at the trend in level design by ccp they are moving objectives inside sockets that are protected from snipers. In time the old sockets and bowl maps will be phased out and snipers having overwatch over objectives will be a thing of the past. [CCP]FoxFour> STFU beers[CCP]FoxFour> Erm[CCP]FoxFour> I mean[CCP]FoxFour> shit[CCP]FoxFour> you were defending me
ReGnYuM Imperfects 1658	Posted - 2014.01.01 21:40:00 - [15] - Quote Leonid Tybalt wrote: ReGnYuM wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: I disagree, Dust isn't about visible combat. Its All Out War. Sniprs are a part of war, its just about tactics, snipers are a tactic and a very good one. Explain to me why I should have a sniper in PC? They're useful for guarding hacked objectives. In some maps one sniper can keep two objectives safe from being hacked +Ñt once as long as the sniper knows of the sweet spots to camp. Agreed, they are good at holding a objective if it is just one lonely hacker. However if it is multiple players, a snipers effectiveness decreases drastically. Furthermore, if we're using a player for point defense. Why we not just not put logi there instead for scans and uplinks. Better yet, why would I not just swap out that sniper for a rail tank. Not only does it fit the role of a sniper, but it is also extremely good AV. Care to go again Official Imperfect Title: Supreme Leader of the Endless Sunset To the Matari, I am the equivalent to the Boogie Man
fragmentedhackslash FREE AGENTS LP 87	Posted - 2014.01.01 21:43:00 - [16] - Quote Free Beers wrote: fragmentedhackslash wrote: Fact of the matter is, not many snipers can guarentee 25+ kills every map they land upon, so whats the issue here? Scout, 1st set of proto safe spotted uplinks, then get shot in the back while hacking with 4 blues watching me Scout, 2nd and 3rd set of uplinks. Again get shot in the back with blues standing around trying to high five each other like in DAY-Z If I don't see a decent heavy in the killfeed, or a squad that needs my support, yeah I'll snipe but I tell you what, I never go back to the merc quarters without 20+ dogtags and top of the board. Kills are important but I am and always been a suport player in dust. I hardly pay attention to how many a sniper does or does not have. It's more about contributing to game play. I have had the chance to play with some very good snipers in dust. That will communicate intel, cover you hacking, cover an objective, actually be able to support the team as a sniper. Those are few and far between though. sniper is a crutch for the low skill or poor players a lot. As you pointed out if your team sucks you go snipe which is exactly what i do. Which I have found soon as a few players do that you bascially give up the match instead of fight for it. This is compounded greatly in fw when you lose isk. Every player that goes and camps as a sniper takes another player off the field. I have posted this else where.. we have a DIRECT CORELATION BETWEEN TANKS 514 and REDLINE SNIPERS It happened in 1.3-1.4 (I think) when we all used to jihad lav, and go ape about tanks being broken AND say snipers are useless... Fixed Tank OP, everyone stopped hate on snipers, TANKS 514 everyone hates snipers... Pain is just weakness leaving your body. Every day is a holiday. Every meal is a feast.
Free Beers Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1641	Posted - 2014.01.01 21:50:00 - [17] - Quote fragmentedhackslash wrote: Free Beers wrote: fragmentedhackslash wrote: Fact of the matter is, not many snipers can guarentee 25+ kills every map they land upon, so whats the issue here? Scout, 1st set of proto safe spotted uplinks, then get shot in the back while hacking with 4 blues watching me Scout, 2nd and 3rd set of uplinks. Again get shot in the back with blues standing around trying to high five each other like in DAY-Z If I don't see a decent heavy in the killfeed, or a squad that needs my support, yeah I'll snipe but I tell you what, I never go back to the merc quarters without 20+ dogtags and top of the board. Kills are important but I am and always been a suport player in dust. I hardly pay attention to how many a sniper does or does not have. It's more about contributing to game play. I have had the chance to play with some very good snipers in dust. That will communicate intel, cover you hacking, cover an objective, actually be able to support the team as a sniper. Those are few and far between though. sniper is a crutch for the low skill or poor players a lot. As you pointed out if your team sucks you go snipe which is exactly what i do. Which I have found soon as a few players do that you bascially give up the match instead of fight for it. This is compounded greatly in fw when you lose isk. Every player that goes and camps as a sniper takes another player off the field. I have posted this else where.. we have a DIRECT CORELATION BETWEEN TANKS 514 and REDLINE SNIPERS It happened in 1.3-1.4 (I think) when we all used to jihad lav, and go ape about tanks being broken AND say snipers are useless... Fixed Tank OP, everyone stopped hate on snipers, TANKS 514 everyone hates snipers... I have a higher success rate at killing tanks then snipers. I can use RE, proxies, forge, swarm, proto AV nades. I can routinely solo most stupid tankers. Even when my team as been red lined i can go and kill tanks on most maps. sniping in that situation is nothing but a give up ( and i admit doing it myself as some maps if you are redlined you are pretty much trapped) [CCP]FoxFour> STFU beers[CCP]FoxFour> Erm[CCP]FoxFour> I mean[CCP]FoxFour> shit[CCP]FoxFour> you were defending me
fragmentedhackslash FREE AGENTS LP 87	Posted - 2014.01.01 21:55:00 - [18] - Quote Free Beers wrote: fragmentedhackslash wrote: Free Beers wrote: fragmentedhackslash wrote: Fact of the matter is, not many snipers can guarentee 25+ kills every map they land upon, so whats the issue here? Scout, 1st set of proto safe spotted uplinks, then get shot in the back while hacking with 4 blues watching me Scout, 2nd and 3rd set of uplinks. Again get shot in the back with blues standing around trying to high five each other like in DAY-Z If I don't see a decent heavy in the killfeed, or a squad that needs my support, yeah I'll snipe but I tell you what, I never go back to the merc quarters without 20+ dogtags and top of the board. Kills are important but I am and always been a suport player in dust. I hardly pay attention to how many a sniper does or does not have. It's more about contributing to game play. I have had the chance to play with some very good snipers in dust. That will communicate intel, cover you hacking, cover an objective, actually be able to support the team as a sniper. Those are few and far between though. sniper is a crutch for the low skill or poor players a lot. As you pointed out if your team sucks you go snipe which is exactly what i do. Which I have found soon as a few players do that you bascially give up the match instead of fight for it. This is compounded greatly in fw when you lose isk. Every player that goes and camps as a sniper takes another player off the field. I have posted this else where.. we have a DIRECT CORELATION BETWEEN TANKS 514 and REDLINE SNIPERS It happened in 1.3-1.4 (I think) when we all used to jihad lav, and go ape about tanks being broken AND say snipers are useless... Fixed Tank OP, everyone stopped hate on snipers, TANKS 514 everyone hates snipers... I have a higher success rate at killing tanks then snipers. I can use RE, proxies, forge, swarm, proto AV nades. I can routinely solo most stupid tankers. Even when my team as been red lined i can go and kill tanks on most maps. sniping in that situation is nothing but a give up ( and i admit doing it myself as some maps if you are redlined you are pretty much trapped) Because you took the tine to figure out how to avoid TANKS514, how many maps have you played where your screaming at stupid blue dots to just LAV up and gurilla the reds home socket and work back... it is not all a proficient snipers fault. Pain is just weakness leaving your body. Every day is a holiday. Every meal is a feast.
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Intara Direct Action Caldari State 270	Posted - 2014.01.01 21:57:00 - [19] - Quote fragmentedhackslash wrote: Fact of the matter is, not many snipers can guarentee 25+ kills every map they land upon, so whats the issue here? Scout, 1st set of proto safe spotted uplinks, then get shot in the back while hacking with 4 blues watching me Scout, 2nd and 3rd set of uplinks. Again get shot in the back with blues standing around trying to high five each other like in DAY-Z If I don't see a decent heavy in the killfeed, or a squad that needs my support, yeah I'll snipe but I tell you what, I never go back to the merc quarters without 20+ dogtags and top of the board. Are you kidding me ??? Can you GUARENTEE 25 kills every match and if so I hope everyone in the community calls you out when you don't because that's just bull $h!t . " BANE " of ALL vehicle users , Crush , Kill and Destroy ALL vehicles !!!!!
Oswald Rehnquist 985	Posted - 2014.01.01 21:57:00 - [20] - Quote I usually run a hacker unit in FW, but having the covenant and TT3 usually allows me pop a few guys when I am infiltrating a base to hack. While I use my sniper as a secondary (main being hacking and pistol), the reason people redline the sniper so often is because the weapons sucks, hit detection is pretty bad, it didn't get the TTK buff the spray and pray weapons got, it takes 2-3 hits on a medium suit to drop which is a very long time, something between 3 to 5 seconds to kill, assuming all shots land. Meaning the only way to main it and make use of these meager benefits is to severely reduce cost (redline) I wouldn't mind if they dropped the range of sniper rifles and increased the damage, essentially give them higher risk and higher reward. Below 28 dB

gravalicious Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 7	Posted - 2014.01.01 21:58:00 - [21] - Quote Free Beers wrote: Asha Starwind wrote: Dude, why'd you reply it's got troll post written all over it. Don't feed. It's not a troll post. If you cant discuss things you can go back to the kiddie table Where's the kiddie table then? Stupid thread is stupid.
Asha Starwind VEXALATION CORPORATION Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage 10	Posted - 2014.01.01 22:02:00 - [22] - Quote Free Beers wrote: Asha Starwind wrote: Dude, why'd you reply it's got troll post written all over it. Don't feed. It's not a troll post. If you cant discuss things you can go back to the kiddie table Well, then say something that is actually objective in not like well you opinion, you're apparently dismissing a class because you feel bad about how cheese the heck out of it. I'm denying that sniping in this gaming needs work because it really does but I'm not going to say things like it's EZ mode compared to others games, when and TF2 and CoD ARE EZ mode: OSK, quick scope, no scope, yolo HS 180. Then almost every issue is about poor level design but you are blaming those issues on snipers.
fragmentedhackslash FREE AGENTS LP 87	Posted - 2014.01.01 22:03:00 - [23] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: fragmentedhackslash wrote: Fact of the matter is, not many snipers can guarentee 25+ kills every map they land upon, so whats the issue here? Scout, 1st set of proto safe spotted uplinks, then get shot in the back while hacking with 4 blues watching me Scout, 2nd and 3rd set of uplinks. Again get shot in the back with blues standing around trying to high five each other like in DAY-Z If I don't see a decent heavy in the killfeed, or a squad that needs my support, yeah I'll snipe but I tell you what, I never go back to the merc quarters without 20+ dogtags and top of the board. Are you kidding me ??? Can you GUARENTEE 25 kills every match and if so I hope everyone in the community calls you out when you don't because that's just bull $h!t . Sir. I **** you not. BTW ignorance is still ignorance. Pain is just weakness leaving your body. Every day is a holiday. Every meal is a feast.
THUNDERGROOVE ZionTCD Public Disorder. 441	Posted - 2014.01.01 22:04:00 - [24] - Quote The new redline snipers are the guys who used to go 5/0 in the redline in a Logistics Ck.0 and Wyrikomi swarms ZionTCD Director & Ammar Loyalist Amarr Sentinel \| Amarr Logi \| *Losematar* Scout What is a signature?
Free Beers Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1644	Posted - 2014.01.01 22:12:00 - [25] - Quote Asha Starwind wrote: Free Beers wrote: Asha Starwind wrote: Dude, why'd you reply it's got troll post written all over it. Don't feed. It's not a troll post. If you cant discuss things you can go back to the kiddie table Well, then say something that is actually objective in not like well you opinion, you're apparently dismissing a class because you feel bad about how cheese the heck out of it. I'm denying that sniping in this gaming needs work because it really does but I'm not going to say things like it's EZ mode compared to others games, when and TF2 and CoD ARE EZ mode: OSK, quick scope, no scope, yolo HS 180. Then almost every issue is about poor level design but you are blaming those issues on snipers. Did I say I was being objective? I made it obvious what my opinion was, gave my reasons why I feel the way I do, and open it up for discussion. I'm also honest in the fact that ccp won't take snipers out of the game. Hence discussion in my title of the thread. So you can give your opinion and reasons behind it like everyone else. If we agree sniping is broken, how would you fix it? By all mean go point by point and beat up my reasons and offer solutions to it. Otherwise just a waste of nerd time on both our parts [CCP]FoxFour> STFU beers[CCP]FoxFour> Erm[CCP]FoxFour> I mean[CCP]FoxFour> shit[CCP]FoxFour> you were defending me
Free Beers Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1644	Posted - 2014.01.01 22:14:00 - [26] - Quote gravalicious wrote: Free Beers wrote: Asha Starwind wrote: Dude, why'd you reply it's got troll post written all over it. Don't feed. It's not a troll post. If you cant discuss things you can go back to the kiddie table Where's the kiddie table then? Stupid thread is stupid. I fully expect you are one of those "I know you are but what am I" types. So i am just going to feel bad for you and leave you be [CCP]FoxFour> STFU beers[CCP]FoxFour> Erm[CCP]FoxFour> I mean[CCP]FoxFour> shit[CCP]FoxFour> you were defending me
Bojo The Mighty Zanzibar Concept 2522	Posted - 2014.01.01 22:29:00 - [27] - Quote Return of the Imps WTF Looking For: Corp If a scout runs out of all ammunition behind enemy lines, they did something right.
gravalicious Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 7	Posted - 2014.01.01 22:41:00 - [28] - Quote Free Beers wrote: gravalicious wrote: Free Beers wrote: Asha Starwind wrote: Dude, why'd you reply it's got troll post written all over it. Don't feed. It's not a troll post. If you cant discuss things you can go back to the kiddie table Where's the kiddie table then? Stupid thread is stupid. I fully expect you are one of those "I know you are but what am I" types. So i am just going to feel bad for you and leave you be Expectations are never what they seem. Regardless, snipers are fine. Dust has much bigger and more pressing issues than your QQ'ing about snipers. I'd much rather have a jukebox in my quarters that plays a song for 1000 isk than let CCP waste their time "fixing" snipers.
Asha Starwind VEXALATION CORPORATION Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage 10	Posted - 2014.01.01 22:57:00 - [29] - Quote Fix the maps - Make them 'larger', just so the redlines and the home bases can be pushed outward and away everything normally inside stays where it originally was - Remove all high ground and remote areas behind the redlines and obstruct LOS whenever possible to prevent firing in or out - patch wherever it's possible to head glitch Make it possible or more viable than it actually is snipe tactically and not just strategically Give the player the ability to temporarily remove not mitigate all sway - - press or hold x button while zoomed in to steady. And maybe players
ADP Silenced Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 26	Posted - 2014.01.01 23:03:00 - [30] - Quote Free Beers wrote: Full Disclaimer: I have a sniper toon, I red line camp, and I even sniped from mcc with damage mod suit when the shield could be shot thru. I have been a terrible sniper in every other fps games I played, but dust is easy mode. I have come to the conclusion that snipers in dust are broken and are more detrimental to the over game play than beneficial. ). I am yet to read in your list as to why Snipers are "BROKEN"....Where in your list does it give an example of Snipers overwhelming the game? as Tanks are currently doing right now....The rule of thumb is, if one team has been reduced to sniping, Then the other team is winning...Redline/Hit Detection/Map Design/Sockets etc. really has nothing to do with Snipers being "BROKEN"....Your complaint is about "DUST 514 GAME MECHANICS"...Quit the trolling already jeeeeez!!! so annoying...

Free Beers Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1644	Posted - 2014.01.01 23:08:00 - [31] - Quote Asha Starwind wrote: Fix the maps - Make them 'larger', just so the redlines and the home bases can be pushed outward and away everything normally inside stays where it originally was - Remove all high ground and remote areas behind the redlines and obstruct LOS whenever possible between home base and the core areas to prevent firing in or out - patch wherever it's possible to head glitch Make it possible or more viable than it actually is snipe tactically and not just strategically Give the player the ability to temporarily remove not mitigate all sway - - press or hold x button while zoomed in to steady. And maybe players My response in order of your comments 1. Maps already feel to big. 2. remember ambush where each team spawned on different sides and they made it flat and open between redline spawn/cover and sockets. CCP has tried this game mode and it was a failure. So much so they removed it almost immediately 3. ccp is not going to change head glitching 4. Reduce sway? do you remember in closed beta when there was almost no sway? Snipers were able to double tap any and everyone. This is why ccp has added sway back in and made your reticle settle in random spots after a shot. Why you want it to be eaiser to use a sniper? [CCP]FoxFour> STFU beers[CCP]FoxFour> Erm[CCP]FoxFour> I mean[CCP]FoxFour> shit[CCP]FoxFour> you were defending me
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 3368	Posted - 2014.01.01 23:18:00 - [32] - Quote 1. Then stay in your buildings and move around using the uplinks that good snipers put up for you. 2. There's something called counter snipers. If you stack damage mods, you'll get OHKed 3. Almost all weapons in Dust are hit-scan 4. Head glitching doesn't exist. I've headshotted enough snipers to know this. 5. What does this have to do with anything? 6. Bowls work both ways. You're exposed when you're up high. 7. Redline sniping is extremely unrewarding, so that's only a problem with HAVs shooting down dropships 8. The redline doesn't affect real snipers. 9. If snipers are removed, it breaks a big part of the game. You lose your counter to people who make use of high ground (Note the complaints of mass drivers and forge guns every other build) There are good snipers and bad snipers. The bad snipers don't get **** for WP anyway. Meanwhile, assault rifles are overpowered as hell and completely dominate short, mid, and mid-long range combat. We used to have a time machine
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 3368	Posted - 2014.01.01 23:21:00 - [33] - Quote Btw, it's been a while since the imps made an effort to encourage something stupid for their benefit. I thought you guys rage quit a few months back? We used to have a time machine
Free Beers Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1647	Posted - 2014.01.01 23:32:00 - [34] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: 1. Then stay in your buildings and move around using the uplinks that good snipers put up for you. 2. There's something called counter snipers. If you stack damage mods, you'll get OHKed 3. Almost all weapons in Dust are hit-scan 4. Head glitching doesn't exist. I've headshotted enough snipers to know this. 5. What does this have to do with anything? 6. Bowls work both ways. You're exposed when you're up high. 7. Redline sniping is extremely unrewarding, so that's only a problem with HAVs shooting down dropships 8. The redline doesn't affect real snipers. 9. If snipers are removed, it breaks a big part of the game. You lose your counter to people who make use of high ground (Note the complaints of mass drivers and forge guns every other build) There are good snipers and bad snipers. The bad snipers don't get **** for WP anyway. Meanwhile, assault rifles are overpowered as hell and completely dominate short, mid, and mid-long range combat. 1. Manu's peak map, the old 4 point map from closed beta, 5 point small map are all bowl maps and built for snipers. These make up more than 50% of the maps I play. If ccp removed them then i could give you partial credit. As a sniper on these maps I can hit most objectives minus the pyramid objective. 2 I use proto suits to snipe with, armor tank, and sit on armor hives with 3 damage mods. I rarely get counter sniped. 3 Correct, but it makes being a sniper way to easier. Like i said i play just about every fps out there and I am just shocked how low skill and easy a sniper is. 4 I'm going to be nice here but head glitching is a combination of terrain angle and perspective in dust ( like many other games) while ccp has smoothed over quite a lot of textures it still exists 5 6 Bowls that itself would not cause this, but if you look at the maps there are plenty of small hills that give you limited line of sight to areas and objectives. I use these all the time with great success. Most of my redline spots on bowl maps you have to drop OB or tk me to kill. 7 redline sniping is bad, but not the only issue with redlines. 8 I would agree, but 98% of snipers are not this. 9 I fully expect snipers to continue, this is fully for discussion purposes. bad snipers hurt team play Assault rifles and how forge guns work/damage will be in daily discussions laster this week Thanks for responding! [CCP]FoxFour> STFU beers[CCP]FoxFour> Erm[CCP]FoxFour> I mean[CCP]FoxFour> shit[CCP]FoxFour> you were defending me
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 7319	Posted - 2014.01.01 23:37:00 - [35] - Quote Sniping at the moment is too easy and too safe. It scales poorly - snipers take more and more hits to kill targets as they go up the tiers, even when remaining an equivalent tier - but it's frankly stupidly easy to do. It does not take any skill to sit a few hundred metres back in the redline with a Thale's. It does not put you at risk to do that. You can get a bunch of kills though and generally don't contribute much to the actual battle effort. I hear so many snipers defensively claiming that they're doing it for the team, they're covering people, etc etc but that facts remain that it is generally of little value and is very safe to do. Redline sniping is an abhorrent practice. I would prefer it if we didn't have terrible redline mechanics rendering snipers practically invincible except to countersnipers, and something to make sniping less easy (like bullet drop or actual scope sway). Then perhaps the reward and team viability can be tweaked - for example, although you may not be able to kill a target the ability to tag them through the scope and have them show up on the team TACNET would be a valuable team ability, although in the era of active scanners it may not seem so. Level 7 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution Gallente FW - 'Turalyon'
Free Beers Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1647	Posted - 2014.01.01 23:37:00 - [36] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Btw, it's been a while since the imps made an effort to encourage something stupid for their benefit. I thought you guys rage quit a few months back? I give you credit for responding and treat you with respect and then you go with this? We beat dust then went and played games what worked. I have no idea why i am back but i am having fun i fw q syncing. Stop being a child about things because as far as i remember Bojo didn't do **** in dust or for the betterment of the game or community. [CCP]FoxFour> STFU beers[CCP]FoxFour> Erm[CCP]FoxFour> I mean[CCP]FoxFour> shit[CCP]FoxFour> you were defending me
Asha Starwind VEXALATION CORPORATION Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage 11	Posted - 2014.01.02 00:31:00 - [37] - Quote Free Beers wrote: Asha Starwind wrote: Fix the maps - Make them 'larger', just so the redlines and the home bases can be pushed outward and away everything normally inside stays where it originally was - Remove all high ground and remote areas behind the redlines and obstruct LOS whenever possible between home base and the core areas to prevent firing in or out - patch wherever it's possible to head glitch Make it possible or more viable than it actually is snipe tactically and not just strategically Give the player the ability to temporarily remove not mitigate all sway - - press or hold x button while zoomed in to steady. And maybe players My response in order of your comments 1. Maps already feel to big. 2. remember ambush where each team spawned on different sides and they made it flat and open between redline spawn/cover and sockets. CCP has tried this game mode and it was a failure. So much so they removed it almost immediately 3. ccp is not going to change head glitching 4. Reduce sway? do you remember in closed beta when there was almost no sway? Snipers were able to double tap any and everyone. This is why ccp has added sway back in and made your reticle settle in random spots after a shot. Why you want it to be eaiser to use a sniper? 1. I feel otherwise, there isn't anywhere on the current maps that you can't get within seconds be it on foot or calling in a DS/LAV 2. I'm not talking about that CF of a game mode called ambush. When were we ever talking about ambush since the redline doesn't matter there. 3. Then blame CCP then 4. Wasn't around then (that actually sounds pretty sweet) the way you put it. I'm not saying we should make snipers OP again, but more appealing to use than in front of the redline or high upon some tower or equally remote area of themap. How mention it make it sound like sway was a kneejerk reaction to massive amounts of QQing that what going on. You like to plug in "like/in other games" often when snipers in other games do just, that and let snipers double tap anyone and everyone, and 1-shot if you hit them in the head. Looks like you just want snipers from gone from the game period, and not a solution to the useless redlining.
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1373	Posted - 2014.01.02 00:36:00 - [38] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: I disagree, Dust isn't about visible combat. Its All Out War. Sniprs are a part of war, its just about tactics, snipers are a tactic and a very good one. Explain to me why I should have a sniper in PC? 1. Area - Denial, Snipers are one of the best units for Area-Denial, the ability to engage gives the engaged targets little chance for a direct rebuke. Unlike close combat units, the sniper doesn't have to rely on killing the enemy to slow there assault on letter. For example by the time the Mass Driver gets into range you will likely be pinned down yourself. HMG is tied to the heavy which can be easily outmanoeuvred in a Cover rich environment. The shotgun is to risky for vital defence. 2. Early Warning, Snipers performing Area Denial can request back long before the enemy reaches the point, even if he only slows them down that increases the time the team has to respond to the threat. If your guarding a point with say an assault rifle, most of the time the first time you encounter an enemy they will be less than 100m from the point. Your team has little time to respond. 3. Overwatch, Snipers placed in some of the juicer picks can have view over an instance of battle. For example line harvest(the old bridge map) having a sniper who can see what is going on is a powerful tactical tool. They can watch for breaks in the lines, delegate more less resources as needed. The sniper may never fire a shot, but I would choose him over another assault rifle wielding hothead who thinks he's God's Gift to New Eden 4. Guardian Angel, If I ever had a Guardian Angel I'd feel a whole lot safer if he were proficent with a Sniper Rifle. Snipers can watch your back as you hack, shoot out that RE you had missed, end that scout with shotgun who just spawned in behind you. A decent Sniper can save your life and you probably won't even know. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Ghost Kaisar Titans of Phoenix 1417	Posted - 2014.01.02 01:00:00 - [39] - Quote Tectonic Fusion wrote: Leonid Tybalt wrote: Sorry you snipers (even using underhanded tactics like redline camping) don't really bother me. At the very most you guys tend to earn no more than 600-1000 warpoints in a match (if you are GOOD that is). Meanwhile, vanguard frontline troopers like myself tend to always make warpoints in the ranges of 1200-2000+ warpoints in the matches we participate in. So snipers dont really bother me honestly. You're not getting the lions share of the profits so you can stick to sniping all you like with my blessing. Also it's fun to sneak up behind you and melee-kill you or execute you with a scrambler pistol when you sit there squatting with tunnel vision in some other direction like a dork. XD I execute my own team by calling a tank on them... So does Moody Minmatar Faction Warfare: Let's get Organized
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 3369	Posted - 2014.01.02 01:08:00 - [40] - Quote Free Beers wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Btw, it's been a while since the imps made an effort to encourage something stupid for their benefit. I thought you guys rage quit a few months back? I give you credit for responding and treat you with respect and then you go with this? We beat dust then went and played games what worked. I have no idea why i am back but i am having fun i fw q syncing. Stop being a child about things because as far as i remember Bojo didn't do **** in dust or for the betterment of the game or community. And, of course, you pretend that it's not obvious I posted before you "treated me with respect" after insulting an entire class of players. Also- in what universe did the imps benefit the community AT ALL? But, now I get it. You quit Dust, went to other games, realized you're terrible at them, then went back to a game you still have a chance to exploit. We used to have a time machine

Sleepy Zan Programus 2932	Posted - 2014.01.02 01:11:00 - [41] - Quote Do we have a problem here? A real sniper doesn't provide battlefield intelligence, a real sniper leaves no intelligence left on the battlefield.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 2921	Posted - 2014.01.02 01:21:00 - [42] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: Agreed, they are good at holding a objective if it is just one lonely hacker. However if it is multiple players, a snipers effectiveness decreases drastically. Furthermore, if we're using a player for point defense. Why we not just not put logi there instead for scans and uplinks. Better yet, why would I not just swap out that sniper for a rail tank. Not only does it fit the role of a sniper, but it is also extremely good AV. Care to go again Considering how my Thales can 1-2 shot most suits in the game, I'm pretty sure I can handle sniping more than 1 person hacking (provided I get the right position). I've yet to see a scanner that can extend to 599m. Even the LP Scanner doesn't scan that far. And infantry doesn't render far enough inside a tank to be even close to efficient in terms of "sniping" when compared to an ACTUAL sniper. Care to go again? Most hated person since Lueko and Checkmate
Free Beers Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1650	Posted - 2014.01.02 01:23:00 - [43] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Free Beers wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Btw, it's been a while since the imps made an effort to encourage something stupid for their benefit. I thought you guys rage quit a few months back? I give you credit for responding and treat you with respect and then you go with this? We beat dust then went and played games what worked. I have no idea why i am back but i am having fun i fw q syncing. Stop being a child about things because as far as i remember Bojo didn't do **** in dust or for the betterment of the game or community. And, of course, you pretend that it's not obvious I posted before you "treated me with respect" after insulting an entire class of players. Also- in what universe did the imps benefit the community AT ALL? But, now I get it. You quit Dust, went to other games, realized you're terrible at them, then went back to a game you still have a chance to exploit. It took a bit to give you a real first response. By the time I submitted you had already posted our love for imps, but I had no idea because i was typing out my response. So help me out smart guy. How do imps benefit from this thread? Imps really only play FW in which snipers are meaningless in. While you are at it catch me on all the exploiting imps are doing now in dust. Then maybe you can get to my question of where Bojo's did anything in dust more then flap their gums and get wrecked. So yeah, thanks for playing [CCP]FoxFour> STFU beers[CCP]FoxFour> Erm[CCP]FoxFour> I mean[CCP]FoxFour> shit[CCP]FoxFour> you were defending me
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 2921	Posted - 2014.01.02 01:25:00 - [44] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: Are you kidding me ??? Can you GUARENTEE 25 kills every match and if so I hope everyone in the community calls you out when you don't because that's just bull $h!t . Funny. Calisk Gern (or whatever that guy's last name is lol) Went 26/0 sniping last night. Any good sniper can do the same given they have the right positon. (IE: Don't expect those scores on indoor maps). Heck, there is even a channel that a friend of mine made just for snipers. Most hated person since Lueko and Checkmate
The Robot Devil Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 1352	Posted - 2014.01.02 01:40:00 - [45] - Quote Free Beers wrote: Full Disclaimer: I have a sniper toon, I red line camp, and I even sniped from mcc with damage mod suit when the shield could be shot thru. I have been a terrible sniper in every other fps games I played, but dust is easy mode. I have come to the conclusion that snipers in dust are broken and are more detrimental to the over game play than beneficial. 1.To me dust is about visible combat. In sockets most combat is in rifle range. Most open spaces between sockets have hills or rocks that allow for somewhat save moment (big improvement over previous super flat maps). Bad enough I have to bob and weave the 10 tanks about. 2.In Dust there is a balance ccp is trying to achieve between damage and ehp. Snipers are not required to make this choice. If you are a sniper and donGÇÖt use 3 damage modes, armor plates, sit on armor hives you are just doing it wrong. Remember its alpha damage not dps here so you just need 1 shot normally ( I pick off people already damaged because its lulz) 3.Hit scan. Really? Can you make this gun any easier. 4.Head Glitch. Kids if you donGÇÖt know what this is ask your parents 5.Level design has undue burden of restricting snipers from having over watch. Are any of you tired of having to deal with fences around stuff (I understand a lot of the fences were put it to protect old sockets from sniper camping. The newer sockets are much better design (Shout out to CCP LogicLoop and CCP Tigris)) <--- can't you tell i have written code 6.Bowl maps. 7.Making scrubs on your team that are terrible stop redline camping and not doing ** 8.Did I mention redline camping? Now I do think the redline needs to go in some cases but this will reduce redline campers greatly. 9.Lastly if you removed snipers from dust there isnGÇÖt one aspect of the game that is missed. So there you have it. You may agree with me, add to my list, disagree, or offer the pro of snipers in dust. Now donGÇÖt get all bent out of shape or just call me a bunch of names (mainly because I donGÇÖt give a **). I know it is probably bad game design but I am am in the camp of adding not removing. I would rather see a anti sniper skill and module that when equipped would stop one round from hitting your armor per x amount of time. The module could be a low slot module that could keep a sniper round from penetrating the shields. It would only work if the shields were 100%. The module could reduce shield regen rate or whatever. The skill would advance the merc through the tiers and a proficiency could reduce the shields needed by 4% a level. I f the sniper is good then you are dead anyways but it would give hacking and recon scouts a second chance and give players a counter to a redline sniper. GÇ£No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride." Hunter S. Thompson
Poonmunch Sanguis Defense Syndicate 751	Posted - 2014.01.02 01:46:00 - [46] - Quote CYRAX SERVIUS wrote: There are no proto tanks at this time but I think advanced tanks are coming back. Depending on the map a GOOD sniper, and I mean a really GOOD sniper can give you letter denial on a key letter between opposing spawn points. So true. Think of us as Null Cannon extenders. We can ensure prolonged damage to the red MCC when we get the right angle on a hack point. Munch Dedicated Sniper. Minmatar Patriot (6).
Everything Dies Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 400	Posted - 2014.01.02 01:57:00 - [47] - Quote Want my sniper to move in closer to the battlefield? Give me crosshairs or some other way of knowing where I'm firing without scoping--otherwise no, I'm not going to expose myself to enemy infantry and pray that my little SMG can protect me. Life is killing me.
Free Beers Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1650	Posted - 2014.01.02 02:04:00 - [48] - Quote Poonmunch wrote: CYRAX SERVIUS wrote: There are no proto tanks at this time but I think advanced tanks are coming back. Depending on the map a GOOD sniper, and I mean a really GOOD sniper can give you letter denial on a key letter between opposing spawn points. So true. Think of us as Null Cannon extenders. We can ensure prolonged damage to the red MCC when we get the right angle on a hack point. Munch Let me play devils advocate here. If you look at the new maps and new sockets they are all anti sniper. The objectives are closed in, there maps are no longer bowl maps, and even out door objectives have limited line of sight (a small angle in which a player can be shot). Once the old maps cycle out (and they will) how useful do you feel snipers will be in current state. For the record the Manus peak, 5 point launcher tower, 4 point bowl with garages are the old maps. Thoughts? [CCP]FoxFour> STFU beers[CCP]FoxFour> Erm[CCP]FoxFour> I mean[CCP]FoxFour> shit[CCP]FoxFour> you were defending me
Free Beers Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1650	Posted - 2014.01.02 02:06:00 - [49] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: Free Beers wrote: Full Disclaimer: I have a sniper toon, I red line camp, and I even sniped from mcc with damage mod suit when the shield could be shot thru. I have been a terrible sniper in every other fps games I played, but dust is easy mode. I have come to the conclusion that snipers in dust are broken and are more detrimental to the over game play than beneficial. 1.To me dust is about visible combat. In sockets most combat is in rifle range. Most open spaces between sockets have hills or rocks that allow for somewhat save moment (big improvement over previous super flat maps). Bad enough I have to bob and weave the 10 tanks about. 2.In Dust there is a balance ccp is trying to achieve between damage and ehp. Snipers are not required to make this choice. If you are a sniper and donGÇÖt use 3 damage modes, armor plates, sit on armor hives you are just doing it wrong. Remember its alpha damage not dps here so you just need 1 shot normally ( I pick off people already damaged because its lulz) 3.Hit scan. Really? Can you make this gun any easier. 4.Head Glitch. Kids if you donGÇÖt know what this is ask your parents 5.Level design has undue burden of restricting snipers from having over watch. Are any of you tired of having to deal with fences around stuff (I understand a lot of the fences were put it to protect old sockets from sniper camping. The newer sockets are much better design (Shout out to CCP LogicLoop and CCP Tigris)) <--- can't you tell i have written code 6.Bowl maps. 7.Making scrubs on your team that are terrible stop redline camping and not doing ** 8.Did I mention redline camping? Now I do think the redline needs to go in some cases but this will reduce redline campers greatly. 9.Lastly if you removed snipers from dust there isnGÇÖt one aspect of the game that is missed. So there you have it. You may agree with me, add to my list, disagree, or offer the pro of snipers in dust. Now donGÇÖt get all bent out of shape or just call me a bunch of names (mainly because I donGÇÖt give a **). I know it is probably bad game design but I am am in the camp of adding not removing. I would rather see a anti sniper skill and module that when equipped would stop one round from hitting your armor per x amount of time. The module could be a low slot module that could keep a sniper round from penetrating the shields. It would only work if the shields were 100%. The module could reduce shield regen rate or whatever. The skill would advance the merc through the tiers and a proficiency could reduce the shields needed by 4% a level. I f the sniper is good then you are dead anyways but it would give hacking and recon scouts a second chance and give players a counter to a redline sniper. Just going to be really honest here. You idea just adds complication to the game and doesn't actually solve the main issues with snipers [CCP]FoxFour> STFU beers[CCP]FoxFour> Erm[CCP]FoxFour> I mean[CCP]FoxFour> shit[CCP]FoxFour> you were defending me
ReGnYuM Imperfects 1660	Posted - 2014.01.02 02:24:00 - [50] - Quote Atiim wrote: ReGnYuM wrote: Agreed, they are good at holding a objective if it is just one lonely hacker. However if it is multiple players, a snipers effectiveness decreases drastically. Furthermore, if we're using a player for point defense. Why we not just not put logi there instead for scans and uplinks. Better yet, why would I not just swap out that sniper for a rail tank. Not only does it fit the role of a sniper, but it is also extremely good AV. Care to go again Considering how my Thales can 1-2 shot most suits in the game, I'm pretty sure I can handle sniping more than 1 person hacking (provided I get the right position). I've yet to see a scanner that can extend to 599m. Even the LP Scanner doesn't scan that far. And infantry doesn't render far enough inside a tank to be even close to efficient in terms of "sniping" when compared to an ACTUAL sniper. Care to go again? 1. You clearly don't PC, so let me explain that it is extremely hard for any lone sniper to prevent a competent home flag push, even if you're 1-2 spotting players. 2. The whole sniper call-out sounds good on paper, but for the most part is nothing game changing. 3. I snipers role in PC is point defense not slaying. I don't care what is more efficient at sniping a moving target. All I care about is making sure no one hacks that point, and Rail tank can achieve this. From my PC experience, the sniper role's benefits do not out weigh the costs. Official Imperfect Title: Supreme Leader of the Endless Sunset I Slay, for thy Empress

The Black Art Fatal Absolution 270	Posted - 2014.01.02 02:33:00 - [51] - Quote I think the only PC map snipers are good on is the bridge map, on Echo side mountains. From there they can watch E, shoot people on the bridge, and shoot the rooftops, (same with railtanks) which is why that map is imbalanced.
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 772	Posted - 2014.01.02 02:37:00 - [52] - Quote Sniping is the least problem of this game. It's not even a job. It's just something that you do when you are pubstomped. Oh, sht! I just learned you can make a signature! Thanks, CCP! Forums are getting better!
The Robot Devil Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 1353	Posted - 2014.01.02 04:22:00 - [53] - Quote Free Beers wrote: The Robot Devil wrote: Free Beers wrote: Full Disclaimer: I have a sniper toon, I red line camp, and I even sniped from mcc with damage mod suit when the shield could be shot thru. I have been a terrible sniper in every other fps games I played, but dust is easy mode. I have come to the conclusion that snipers in dust are broken and are more detrimental to the over game play than beneficial. 1.To me dust is about visible combat. In sockets most combat is in rifle range. Most open spaces between sockets have hills or rocks that allow for somewhat save moment (big improvement over previous super flat maps). Bad enough I have to bob and weave the 10 tanks about. 2.In Dust there is a balance ccp is trying to achieve between damage and ehp. Snipers are not required to make this choice. If you are a sniper and donGÇÖt use 3 damage modes, armor plates, sit on armor hives you are just doing it wrong. Remember its alpha damage not dps here so you just need 1 shot normally ( I pick off people already damaged because its lulz) 3.Hit scan. Really? Can you make this gun any easier. 4.Head Glitch. Kids if you donGÇÖt know what this is ask your parents 5.Level design has undue burden of restricting snipers from having over watch. Are any of you tired of having to deal with fences around stuff (I understand a lot of the fences were put it to protect old sockets from sniper camping. The newer sockets are much better design (Shout out to CCP LogicLoop and CCP Tigris)) <--- can't you tell i have written code 6.Bowl maps. 7.Making scrubs on your team that are terrible stop redline camping and not doing ** 8.Did I mention redline camping? Now I do think the redline needs to go in some cases but this will reduce redline campers greatly. 9.Lastly if you removed snipers from dust there isnGÇÖt one aspect of the game that is missed. So there you have it. You may agree with me, add to my list, disagree, or offer the pro of snipers in dust. Now donGÇÖt get all bent out of shape or just call me a bunch of names (mainly because I donGÇÖt give a **). I know it is probably bad game design but I am am in the camp of adding not removing. I would rather see a anti sniper skill and module that when equipped would stop one round from hitting your armor per x amount of time. The module could be a low slot module that could keep a sniper round from penetrating the shields. It would only work if the shields were 100%. The module could reduce shield regen rate or whatever. The skill would advance the merc through the tiers and a proficiency could reduce the shields needed by 4% a level. I f the sniper is good then you are dead anyways but it would give hacking and recon scouts a second chance and give players a counter to a redline sniper. Just going to be really honest here. Your idea just adds complication to the game and doesn't actually solve the main issues with snipers There isn't a problem with snipers, I die maybe two or three times a week to a sniper. I take a good bit of damage from snipers that may result in my death but snipers aren't a problem. Stay moving, use cover and be mindful of where you are and most of the sniper problems disappear. Good snipers with high level skills deserve one shot kills and a good sniper using teamwork in a force multiplier, we don't need to nerf snipers but giving modules that help deal with may be a useful. Complicating the game is good, we need at least 3 times the modules, suits, weapons and skills just to make it good. The complexity of the game is one of the things it has going for it and we shouldn't be afraid to try things. GÇ£No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride." Hunter S. Thompson
Poonmunch Sanguis Defense Syndicate 752	Posted - 2014.01.02 05:15:00 - [54] - Quote Free Beers wrote: Poonmunch wrote: CYRAX SERVIUS wrote: There are no proto tanks at this time but I think advanced tanks are coming back. Depending on the map a GOOD sniper, and I mean a really GOOD sniper can give you letter denial on a key letter between opposing spawn points. So true. Think of us as Null Cannon extenders. We can ensure prolonged damage to the red MCC when we get the right angle on a hack point. Munch Let me play devils advocate here. If you look at the new maps and new sockets they are all anti sniper. The objectives are closed in, there maps are no longer bowl maps, and even out door objectives have limited line of sight (a small angle in which a player can be shot). Once the old maps cycle out (and they will) how useful do you feel snipers will be in current state. For the record the Manus peak, 5 point launcher tower, 4 point bowl with garages are the old maps. Thoughts? Firstly, let me apologize for the wall of text that follows. Your question is well-considered and requires a detailed response. You are correct about the new maps and sockets. I've sniped on them all. As you point out the old maps were comparatively sniper friendly with wider open spaces and lines of sight to hack points. The new maps do have more enclosed hack points, a state of affairs that irked me a great deal. I even got into a discussion with CCP LogicLoop about it (see post #68): Chat with CCP LogicLoop I didn't give up hope. I played the new maps hard and tried to break them down. I learned a few things. The new maps caused me to alter some of things I did as a sniper. Now I run around far more than I did before. I get into sockets when I can and I throw out lots of uplinks, hives and REs. I hack a bunch and I now range over more of each map (usually both ends and both sides in the same game). I'm more likely to hit a Supply Depot and load up a new dropsuit so I can get more equipment to lay down in different places as the tide of battle changes. I'm engaging at very close ranges in some places on the new maps, a *******-tightening experience for a sniper. This has caused me to get better at using my sidearm and has caused me to pay much closer attention to my radar and the situation around me. On several of the hack points on new maps I can still get angles and kill effectively at the hack point itself. What I can do is control the flow of the enemy around hack points with a combination of hacking CRUs, hacking turrets, placing REs, placing PEs, shooting red equipment and balls-to-the-wall sniping. The key is to find choke points that reds move through to get to objectives and kill them as they move through them. All maps have a certain ebb and flow to them and I can see the patterns developing from my vantage points. All maps have key objectives that are always important. I know on a certain map, the team that controls "C" for most of the game usually wins. And I know the best places to cover it. And I know where the infantry runs to get there. And I know where the red snipers will be. And I know where and when to put uplinks down, so my team can put pressure on when the reds are away. I've functioned as the team leader because I can see what is going on all over the map. On one map, for example, the best sequence of controlling hack points is to go "D", "A", "B". The team that does this first usually goes on to win. I've skilled more deeply into dropships and LAVs to quickly get me to more places where I can be effective. I honestly feel that the new maps have improved me as a sniper (on all maps) and as a member of my team. It's also way more exciting to be running around in places where an angry red proto fatty with an HMG could pop around a corner. Having said all of this, it would be nice to have more areas of active play on the new huge maps and any new maps. It would give the sniper more relevance. The map guys could do this by moving some of the objectives around the map, rather than clustering several in one place. Or maybe they could add some objectives to under-played parts of the map. Do I fear that we will become useless? All the time. Have we reached that point? I don't think so. Munch Dedicated Sniper. Minmatar Patriot (6).
Joel II X Dah Gods O Bacon 391	Posted - 2014.01.02 05:33:00 - [55] - Quote I always go for sniper in every fps I've played. That, and medic. I like helping people.
Lorhak Gannarsein 1087	Posted - 2014.01.02 05:43:00 - [56] - Quote Atiim wrote: ReGnYuM wrote: Agreed, they are good at holding a objective if it is just one lonely hacker. However if it is multiple players, a snipers effectiveness decreases drastically. Furthermore, if we're using a player for point defense. Why we not just not put logi there instead for scans and uplinks. Better yet, why would I not just swap out that sniper for a rail tank. Not only does it fit the role of a sniper, but it is also extremely good AV. Care to go again Considering how my Thales can 1-2 shot most suits in the game, I'm pretty sure I can handle sniping more than 1 person hacking (provided I get the right position). I've yet to see a scanner that can extend to 599m. Even the LP Scanner doesn't scan that far. And infantry doesn't render far enough inside a tank to be even close to efficient in terms of "sniping" when compared to an ACTUAL sniper. Care to go again? My particle cannon one shots every suit in the game. It also takes three-eight shots to kill any tank. It also has a 599m range, and now everything renders \o/ I hate redline railing, though, so whatever :) EDIT: I can also buy more at any point. PRO tanker and proud. Lentarr Legionary.
Free Beers Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1655	Posted - 2014.01.02 05:49:00 - [57] - Quote Poonmunch wrote: Free Beers wrote: Poonmunch wrote: CYRAX SERVIUS wrote: There are no proto tanks at this time but I think advanced tanks are coming back. Depending on the map a GOOD sniper, and I mean a really GOOD sniper can give you letter denial on a key letter between opposing spawn points. So true. Think of us as Null Cannon extenders. We can ensure prolonged damage to the red MCC when we get the right angle on a hack point. Munch Let me play devils advocate here. If you look at the new maps and new sockets they are all anti sniper. The objectives are closed in, there maps are no longer bowl maps, and even out door objectives have limited line of sight (a small angle in which a player can be shot). Once the old maps cycle out (and they will) how useful do you feel snipers will be in current state. For the record the Manus peak, 5 point launcher tower, 4 point bowl with garages are the old maps. Thoughts? Firstly, let me apologize for the wall of text that follows. Your question is well-considered and requires a detailed response. You are correct about the new maps and sockets. I've sniped on them all. As you point out the old maps were comparatively sniper friendly with wider open spaces and lines of sight to hack points. The new maps do have more enclosed hack points, a state of affairs that irked me a great deal. I even got into a discussion with CCP LogicLoop about it (see post #68): Chat with CCP LogicLoop I didn't give up hope. I played the new maps hard and tried to break them down. I learned a few things. The new maps caused me to alter some of things I did as a sniper. Now I run around far more than I did before. I get into sockets when I can and I throw out lots of uplinks, hives and REs. I hack a bunch and I now range over more of each map (usually both ends and both sides in the same game). I'm more likely to hit a Supply Depot and load up a new dropsuit so I can get more equipment to lay down in different places as the tide of battle changes. I'm engaging at very close ranges in some places on the new maps, a *******-tightening experience for a sniper. This has caused me to get better at using my sidearm and has caused me to pay much closer attention to my radar and the situation around me. On several of the hack points on new maps I can still get angles and kill effectively at the hack point itself. What I can do is control the flow of the enemy around hack points with a combination of hacking CRUs, hacking turrets, placing REs, placing PEs, shooting red equipment and balls-to-the-wall sniping. The key is to find choke points that reds move through to get to objectives and kill them as they move through them. All maps have a certain ebb and flow to them and I can see the patterns developing from my vantage points. All maps have key objectives that are always important. I know on a certain map, the team that controls "C" for most of the game usually wins. And I know the best places to cover it. And I know where the infantry runs to get there. And I know where the red snipers will be. And I know where and when to put uplinks down, so my team can put pressure on when the reds are away. I've functioned as the team leader because I can see what is going on all over the map. On one map, for example, the best sequence of controlling hack points is to go "D", "A", "B". The team that does this first usually goes on to win. I've skilled more deeply into dropships and LAVs to quickly get me to more places where I can be effective. I honestly feel that the new maps have improved me as a sniper (on all maps) and as a member of my team. It's also way more exciting to be running around in places where an angry red proto fatty with an HMG could pop around a corner. Having said all of this, it would be nice to have more areas of active play on the new huge maps and any new maps. It would give the sniper more relevance. The map guys could do this by moving some of the objectives around the map, rather than clustering several in one place. Or maybe they could add some objectives to under-played parts of the map. Do I fear that we will become useless? All the time. Have we reached that point? I don't think so. Munch Thanks for adding to the discussion. I don't bother trying to snipe on the new maps but at the same time the game play just feels better on them. What you have adapted to is what I do as a scout/logi/terrible DS pilot. I do a lot of the utility and frankly less glorious tasks. I to have had a few heart to hearts with logicloop about the new maps but from the other side. I love resarch fac and the lay out of the new maps. I have nothing but praise for the removal of snipers spots in these maps and sockets. It seems there really isn't a need for snipers on the newer sockets or maps. Back to the point of the thread. Going forward I think there is just isn't a need for snipers and it upsets a lot of the game play balance. I think thats where we will have to just agree to disagree [CCP]FoxFour> STFU beers[CCP]FoxFour> Erm[CCP]FoxFour> I mean[CCP]FoxFour> shit[CCP]FoxFour> you were defending me
fragmentedhackslash FREE AGENTS LP 90	Posted - 2014.01.02 07:03:00 - [58] - Quote I will say it again WHEN TANKS ARE OP EVERYONE HATES SNIPERS. LET ASSAULTS BE ASSAULTS AND THEY WOULD NOT HAVE TO 'TRY' AND SNIPE Pain is just weakness leaving your body. Every day is a holiday. Every meal is a feast.
Racro 01 Arifistan 501st Knights of Leanbox INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 98	Posted - 2014.01.02 07:13:00 - [59] - Quote now for the organized squad/team in any game mode. 9organized is the key word here. I.E mic's and knwos how to communicate.) can relay what they see to the squad/team 9by team iam refering to PC instances) since they are far from the main fight and hopefully in an elevated spot where they can see basically everything. can assist you by saying what suit types are being fielded and any vehicles being deployed. or by picking off that pesky swarmer/forgy anooying your local tanker.
Lynn Beck Granite Mercenary Division Top Men. 455	Posted - 2014.01.02 07:35:00 - [60] - Quote Give us our humongous maps: once the enemy needs to cross from one area to another(be it via road, or crossing a river, or jumping a canyon) then a sniper can stop the whole enemy team, forcing them to put away their jeeps and call a DS- which is still futile as the sniper will pop the passengers. Imagine on manus peak having to go far East past the sniper mountain and across to the plateau over yonder? Snipers WILL be a main force, but they won't be until we get super big maps, same as the usefulness of tanks. Under 28db Officially nerfproof (predicting CR nerf February '14) I have a God, His name is Dakka.

Free Beers Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1656	Posted - 2014.01.02 07:46:00 - [61] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: Give us our humongous maps: once the enemy needs to cross from one area to another(be it via road, or crossing a river, or jumping a canyon) then a sniper can stop the whole enemy team, forcing them to put away their jeeps and call a DS- which is still futile as the sniper will pop the passengers. Imagine on manus peak having to go far East past the sniper mountain and across to the plateau over yonder? Snipers WILL be a main force, but they won't be until we get super big maps, same as the usefulness of tanks. You do realize and map and socket design has gone the other way right? [CCP]FoxFour> STFU beers[CCP]FoxFour> Erm [CCP]FoxFour> I mean[CCP]FoxFour> shit [CCP]FoxFour> you were defending me
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1389	Posted - 2014.01.02 09:13:00 - [62] - Quote fragmentedhackslash wrote: I will say it again WHEN TANKS ARE OP EVERYONE HATES SNIPERS. LET ASSAULTS BE ASSAULTS AND THEY WOULD NOT HAVE TO 'TRY' AND SNIPE Not everyone hates Snipers, It's only the AR Hotshots who hate Snipers. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Galvan Nized Deep Space Republic 492	Posted - 2014.01.02 10:46:00 - [63] - Quote I don't mind snipers usually. Hate when they redline camp an objective but that's more of an issue with level design. I always try to block with a LAV or DShip but it doesn't always work. They rarely contribute much to the match. I've yet to meet a true recon sniper but that's probably because an active scanner is much more effective. Truly I think a lot of range issues, not only with sniper rifles but say rail rifles, will cease once they release the shield bubble. That way smart stationary targets can avoid long range fire. Granted it has to be implemented right, with say a damage threshold, or else we will have impossible to kill snipers in the redline.
Mitch Laurence The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 50	Posted - 2014.01.02 17:44:00 - [64] - Quote Since tracking weekly kdr, I've noticed that mine sits at around 30, no BS, add me to contacts then GMOL. No one can guarantee match results prior to playing but statistically speaking I will take 30 clones for every 1 I spend. What's not tracked is how many blueberry clones are saved in the process of going 30/0, the answer is ALOT. While you're working on hacking objectives, I'm working on 'depleting clone reserves'. Good snipers win the match for you faster than you can win it for yourself, WITHOUT the payout! We don't do it for what you might consider a 'reward', we do it to completely dominate our opponents. That's is the reward. The difference is that while your farming WP, I'm protecting your exposed ass. People that hate on snipers either don't know how to utilize team chat or were recently on the receiving end of the massacre. FYI: Whining on the forums about people who are better than you is not a viable tactic for winning matches. That dude silhouetting himself on that hill under the MCC in the redline ain't a sniper, he's a noob(no offense newberries) who happens to be sniping. Remember that redline you all cry about isn't protecting me from you, the redline is protecting YOU from ME. "People will say we're in love." -Hannibal Lecter
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2374	Posted - 2014.01.02 20:05:00 - [65] - Quote I have to honestly say the more organized your team gets the less important a sniper is. The sniper definitely has problems as it is often more of a liability to team then a benefit. Honestly, the biggest benefit a sniper can provide really isn't even direct damage, but psychologically causing the enemy to waste resources on your destruction even though your contribution to the overall game is relatively insignificant. A sniper also pisses people off and that makes players do dumb things. When people give up on a match they switch to sniper and that's indicative of both problems with the role and the horribly crappy implementation of the redline. I think you would have a lot more benefit if the sniper rifle range was brought down dramatically while potentially bringing its power up. The current range of the sniper rifle encourages and fosters bad gameplay. A recon sniper that hacks, places, links, and provides overwatch actually does a good thing for his team. I would rather see the sniper role modified to encourage the combat recon sniper role then throw our hands up in the air and remove it all together. Pull in the range so the sniper has to be exposed to danger to be effective, give the sniper more power in that shorter engagement range, and give the sniper tools (or maybe just the scout role in general) such as being able to have targets they have scoped up appear to the rest of their squad or event the entire team the same was a scanned target does. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Free Beers Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1666	Posted - 2014.01.02 20:15:00 - [66] - Quote Mitch Laurence wrote: Since tracking weekly kdr, I've noticed that mine sits at around 30, no BS, add me to contacts then GMOL. No one can guarantee match results prior to playing but statistically speaking I will take 30 clones for every 1 I spend. What's not tracked is how many blueberry clones are saved in the process of going 30/0, the answer is ALOT. While you're working on hacking objectives, I'm working on 'depleting clone reserves'. Good snipers win the match for you faster than you can win it for yourself, WITHOUT the payout! We don't do it for what you might consider a 'reward', we do it to completely dominate our opponents. That's is the reward. The difference is that while your farming WP, I'm protecting your exposed ass. People that hate on snipers either don't know how to utilize team chat or were recently on the receiving end of the massacre. FYI: Whining on the forums about people who are better than you is not a viable tactic for winning matches. That dude silhouetting himself on that hill under the MCC in the redline ain't a sniper, he's a noob(no offense newberries) who happens to be sniping. Remember that redline you all cry about isn't protecting me from you, the redline is protecting YOU from ME. Playing in FW or PC matches snipers have no real impact on the outcome now. So what if you can camp in pubs and pick off new/casual players that can be one shot in the body because they use bpo or milita gear. last few times i felt urge to snipe I have average 25/0 camping the objective in domination matches. So braging about 30/0 as a snipers is like winning a gold at the special olympics [CCP]FoxFour> STFU beers[CCP]FoxFour> Erm [CCP]FoxFour> I mean[CCP]FoxFour> shit [CCP]FoxFour> you were defending me
Auris Lionesse SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 33	Posted - 2014.01.02 20:25:00 - [67] - Quote If I want to snipe I just load up bc2 of bf3. sniping in dust sucks. They're weak, have no zoom. Bc2 has perfect sniping.
Auris Lionesse SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 33	Posted - 2014.01.02 20:33:00 - [68] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: I have to honestly say the more organized your team gets the less important a sniper is. The sniper definitely has problems as it is often more of a liability to team then a benefit. Honestly, the biggest benefit a sniper can provide really isn't even direct damage, but psychologically causing the enemy to waste resources on your destruction even though your contribution to the overall game is relatively insignificant. A sniper also pisses people off and that makes players do dumb things. When people give up on a match they switch to sniper and that's indicative of both problems with the role and the horribly crappy implementation of the redline. I think you would have a lot more benefit if the sniper rifle range was brought down dramatically while potentially bringing its power up. The current range of the sniper rifle encourages and fosters bad gameplay. A recon sniper that hacks, places, links, and provides overwatch actually does a good thing for his team. I would rather see the sniper role modified to encourage the combat recon sniper role then throw our hands up in the air and remove it all together. Pull in the range so the sniper has to be exposed to danger to be effective, give the sniper more power in that shorter engagement range, and give the sniper tools (or maybe just the scout role in general) such as being able to have targets they have scoped up appear to the rest of their squad or even the entire team the same way a scanned target does. Agreed to the resource allocation part. Spent a good 3-4 minutes walking out of a socket, across a field, and up a mountain to kill one sniper that didn't even kill me. Would have had more than 29 kills had I not singled him out.


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