DUST Search - CCP, Why Do You Directly Support and Encourage

Shouper of BHD wrote:

Beld Errmon wrote:

Heh for the vast majority of redline rail tankers I doubt they get rewarded much at all, i've seen many that get less then 3 kills in a match and have the warpoints of killing 3 or 4 turrets, don't get me wrong I can't stand persistent redline railgunners, but the only way its actually supported is with poorly designed maps.

If this is more QQ about their effect on dropships all i can say is get good, with half a brain you can almost ignore the run of the mill railgun tards, I know I can and im not a well known dropship pilot from multiple builds, strangely many of the so called dropship pilots i've met run the ground and whine, while I clean up and make a profit.

even if 10 more people say what you said that its not much of an issue if you have skill or what have you I still won`t care becuse its still an issue, 800WP + ISK while not loosing anything is pretty good to some people so railgun lineing won`t stop intill they won`t gain anything from it, its not like they are trolls who want to mess up your game, they are out for the WP/SP and even so little they will gladly take since there NO RISK for (as said in OP) 'risk reward system', its a contridiction to the games moto/style, its no matter what way you suger coat it an inbalance and needs to be changed, we don`t need to say my turrets bigger and so makes it a small issue or not an issue. as DUST freind said and I can relate since I`ve been here that long to its been 2 years with no chnage.

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DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 9373	Posted - 2013.12.27 00:25:00 - [1] - Quote Low skill, lower risk, high reward "tactics" such as red line sniping and rail tanking? I've been here almost 2 years, and I still can't grasp the reasoning behind this. What inspired you to throw out the risk vs reward formula for certain playstyles? YouTube Videos Incubus pilot, any ISK donated is used to purchase new ships
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 1400	Posted - 2013.12.27 00:30:00 - [2] - Quote To give newer and/or less skilled players half a chance? More players = good. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 7147	Posted - 2013.12.27 00:32:00 - [3] - Quote It's idiotic, but I suppose I'll have to 'adapt'. That is to say, I will be sitting in the redline with my Thale's/damage modded Sica harvesting people for no risk. Level 6 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution Gallente FW - 'Turalyon'
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 9375	Posted - 2013.12.27 00:33:00 - [4] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: To give newer and/or less skilled players half a chance? More players = good. Isnt that why we have cheap ass, 0 sp, effective militia tanks? YouTube Videos Incubus pilot, any ISK donated is used to purchase new ships
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 1400	Posted - 2013.12.27 00:49:00 - [5] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: To give newer and/or less skilled players half a chance? More players = good. Isnt that why we have cheap ass, 0 sp, effective militia tanks? For the last 2 years? Damn, I've been missing out.... "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 581	Posted - 2013.12.27 00:50:00 - [6] - Quote I can appreciate the problem that CCP has with trying to make something like tanks, that by nature dominate most things but other tanks, accessible to newer players that want to try them out or dive full into the playstyle. I do not think having a no SP investment and extremely low ISK option as the threshold for entry is the answer.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 9377	Posted - 2013.12.27 01:19:00 - [7] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: To give newer and/or less skilled players half a chance? More players = good. Isnt that why we have cheap ass, 0 sp, effective militia tanks? For the last 2 years? Damn, I've been missing out.... The redline has indeed existed for the last 2 years, so yes, it seems you were in fact missing out YouTube Videos Incubus pilot, any ISK donated is used to purchase new ships
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1324	Posted - 2013.12.27 01:21:00 - [8] - Quote Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: I can appreciate the problem that CCP has with trying to make something like tanks, that by nature dominate most things but other tanks, accessible to newer players that want to try them out or dive full into the playstyle. I do not think having a no SP investment and extremely low ISK option as the threshold for entry is the answer. So not only should tanks be only weak to tanks, skilled in tankers should only be weak tobskilled in tankers? Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 9377	Posted - 2013.12.27 01:24:00 - [9] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: I can appreciate the problem that CCP has with trying to make something like tanks, that by nature dominate most things but other tanks, accessible to newer players that want to try them out or dive full into the playstyle. I do not think having a no SP investment and extremely low ISK option as the threshold for entry is the answer. So not only should tanks be only weak to tanks, skilled in tankers should only be weak tobskilled in tankers? Please explain to me what that has to do with rewarding players for camping the redline and rolling backwards / forwards a few feet the entire match YouTube Videos Incubus pilot, any ISK donated is used to purchase new ships
Lorhak Gannarsein 898	Posted - 2013.12.27 01:27:00 - [10] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: I can appreciate the problem that CCP has with trying to make something like tanks, that by nature dominate most things but other tanks, accessible to newer players that want to try them out or dive full into the playstyle. I do not think having a no SP investment and extremely low ISK option as the threshold for entry is the answer. So not only should tanks be only weak to tanks, skilled in tankers should only be weak tobskilled in tankers? Congratulations on your reading comprehension failure! I'm pretty sure what he's saying is only 'nerf MLT gear'. Presumably part of that is adding effective counters to neutralise vehicles - things like webifiers, or maybe homing flux grenades or something - things that supplement the AV already existing. A swarm buff would also be in order. Have a look at my sig for bias, please, then realise that I'm in no way supporting the tank spam, at least once AV has a way of consistently denying tanks access to WP - for some reward of their own, of course. PRO tanker and proud. Lentarr Legionary.

Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 946	Posted - 2013.12.27 02:01:00 - [11] - Quote The redline exists for the times that players like me want to halfass it and enjoy my beer. Man, I only have one hand available when the other has a beer. You know how hard it is to steer a tank or fire a sniper rifle with only one available hand? Answer: just like in RL. You think I'm joking but I'm not. Do your part. Join the revolution. Sabotage FW. Help this game burn! BURN DUST 2014
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 6104	Posted - 2013.12.27 02:02:00 - [12] - Quote Just wait until those guys go into FW where they can get team killed. Ever noticed the sudden drop in the use of Thales in those FW matches? OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved?
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 2449	Posted - 2013.12.27 02:11:00 - [13] - Quote Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: I can appreciate the problem that CCP has with trying to make something like tanks, that by nature dominate most things but other tanks, accessible to newer players that want to try them out or dive full into the playstyle. I do not think having a no SP investment and extremely low ISK option as the threshold for entry is the answer. It certainly hasn't been the answer anywhere else. Why not make a no SP, low ISK entry awesome suit for the Commando or for the scouts? Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
TheD1CK Dead Man's Game 317	Posted - 2013.12.27 02:15:00 - [14] - Quote Lets just get one thing straight here.... Comments claim that new players need these features to have a chance.... I need to know if the playerbase is ignorant or just plain ******** NO NEW PLAYER WOULD DO THAT !!!!!!!! The only guys using redline are the guys that have tried and failed at playing Dust New players get butt-raped yes but NONE of them set out to use redine as the only way to succeed The only guys using redline are complete NO SKILL FOOLS that tried to fight but realized they were useless No one sets out to be a camping (insert profanity here) just to get decent stats.... If you get killed by someone in the redline then at least rejoice in the fact that they did so because they lack any skill in FPS combat and they are cowards unable to deal with the fact that if you frontline.. YOU DIE Redline regulars are equal to the contents of my toilet after a serious Indian curry CCP !!!! Yet again I call you out to fix this.... Give 0 WP for kills made from redline unless all objectives are held by enemy (as then there is no choice) Seriously is this really that hard to implement ??? Edit: I have the right to say this as I have been here a long time and despite numerous battles going 5/20 just to have a pop at the 'elites' I have never reduced to being a redliner no matter what odds, I fight Minmatar Demolitions Specialist Plasma Cannon Pro
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 877	Posted - 2013.12.27 02:23:00 - [15] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Just wait until those guys go into FW where they can get team killed. Ever noticed the sudden drop in the use of Thales in those FW matches? Why would they go into FW when they are perfectly safe in pubs? Ulthane: Now get off of my property, 'fore more pigeons come looking an' crap on me yard! Overlord's: Ulath Bosse Zero
COHLE DUST University Ivy League 17	Posted - 2013.12.27 02:24:00 - [16] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: I can appreciate the problem that CCP has with trying to make something like tanks, that by nature dominate most things but other tanks, accessible to newer players that want to try them out or dive full into the playstyle. I do not think having a no SP investment and extremely low ISK option as the threshold for entry is the answer. So not only should tanks be only weak to tanks, skilled in tankers should only be weak tobskilled in tankers? Yes, it's kind of hard to balance right now, but until we have vehicles like bombers or fighters for another incomparable for this game (something to balance things out) this is the way things have to be, as balancing infantry AV to tanks is something generally not done on its own but with a vehicle designed to destroy tanks. Otherwise we won't be able to achieve true balance. In most games tanks largely outclass infantry but are susceptible to air vehicles. "I am the punishment of God. Had you not commited great sins, God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you."
Princess Abi-Hime Pradox XVI 1089	Posted - 2013.12.27 02:32:00 - [17] - Quote Operative 1171 Aajli wrote: The redline exists for the times that players like me want to halfass it and enjoy my beer. Man, I only have one hand available when the other has a beer. You know how hard it is to steer a tank or fire a sniper rifle with only one available hand? Answer: just like in RL. You think I'm joking but I'm not. solution: get a straw The Metalhead Mercenary
TheD1CK Dead Man's Game 317	Posted - 2013.12.27 03:06:00 - [18] - Quote Princess Abi-Hime wrote: Operative 1171 Aajli wrote: The redline exists for the times that players like me want to halfass it and enjoy my beer. Man, I only have one hand available when the other has a beer. You know how hard it is to steer a tank or fire a sniper rifle with only one available hand? Answer: just like in RL. You think I'm joking but I'm not. solution: get a straw lol... or get a life Minmatar Demolitions Specialist Plasma Cannon Pro
Shouper of BHD Better Hide R Die 293	Posted - 2013.12.27 03:14:00 - [19] - Quote this argument will go to a conversation that has been argued for theese 2 years that argues: for redline WP: to keep beaten players a non bankrupt state/to give players SOME WP when they get redlined so 100% of the loosing team doesn`t rage quit, if such 'no WP' action is taken then we would need to allow rage quiting to be affordable at the cost of real rage quits. against redline: WP needs to be removed from the redline area so it doesn`t encourage/allow redline snipers/rails to abuse a loosing teams balance in any battle case, other wise thoose playing farely pay extra while thoose who cheat gain. as for me I still think red line points need to be removed from most/some areas of the redline. or the redline changes shape and while in the redline you don`t get points (red line is the same to hostiles to you it changes to represeant the area you can gain points. I would also like recover to be weakened to halter redline retreats but that can`t be done (atleast on the top of my head) without hurting the loosing team.
TheD1CK Dead Man's Game 317	Posted - 2013.12.27 03:17:00 - [20] - Quote Read my post..... NO WP unless enemy hold ALL objectives Is it really that much to ask ..??? Minmatar Demolitions Specialist Plasma Cannon Pro

Shouper of BHD Better Hide R Die 294	Posted - 2013.12.27 03:26:00 - [21] - Quote TheD1CK wrote: Read my post..... NO WP unless enemy hold ALL objectives Is it really that much to ask ..??? was coming back to post a reply to you post (which I liked) but wanted to read that buff AV weapons thread. that is practicly tghe same as the shapeshifting redline idea I said infact it was formed after thinking that thought, the redline shifts if you are being stomped or have a ton of campers, other wise no WP. I also liked what you said about people saying its for the new guys, mpost new guys don`t care if things go bad due to home spawn/redline then they will decide if it will be worth playing the 1st few weeks, news guys won`t say I`m safe here and can wait it out, but do hold that thought becuse an issue of itself arrises, who wants to wait it out? waiting out a bad match is the worste thing (followed by a bad match that most likely has to due the redline). the all none fact is its an issue and saying theres pros to it never over shadows the cons, thats just not balance a move has to be made to eleminate the cons and replace them with pros, or atleast do the best that can be done since its a commen issue all around.
Beld Errmon The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 1172	Posted - 2013.12.27 03:28:00 - [22] - Quote Heh for the vast majority of redline rail tankers I doubt they get rewarded much at all, i've seen many that get less then 3 kills in a match and have the warpoints of killing 3 or 4 turrets, don't get me wrong I can't stand persistent redline railgunners, but the only way its actually supported is with poorly designed maps. If this is more QQ about their effect on dropships all i can say is get good, with half a brain you can almost ignore the run of the mill railgun tards, I know I can and im not a well known dropship pilot from multiple builds, strangely many of the so called dropship pilots i've met run the ground and whine, while I clean up and make a profit.
deepfried salad gilliam Sanguine Knights 335	Posted - 2013.12.27 03:28:00 - [23] - Quote Operative 1171 Aajli wrote: The redline exists for the times that players like me want to halfass it and enjoy my beer. Man, I only have one hand available when the other has a beer. You know how hard it is to steer a tank or fire a sniper rifle with only one available hand? Answer: just like in RL. You think I'm joking but I'm not. pretty easy just use your knees it works for both options "May God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ give you grace and peace" - Second Corinthians chapter one verse two.
Shouper of BHD Better Hide R Die 294	Posted - 2013.12.27 23:14:00 - [24] - Quote Beld Errmon wrote: Heh for the vast majority of redline rail tankers I doubt they get rewarded much at all, i've seen many that get less then 3 kills in a match and have the warpoints of killing 3 or 4 turrets, don't get me wrong I can't stand persistent redline railgunners, but the only way its actually supported is with poorly designed maps. If this is more QQ about their effect on dropships all i can say is get good, with half a brain you can almost ignore the run of the mill railgun tards, I know I can and im not a well known dropship pilot from multiple builds, strangely many of the so called dropship pilots i've met run the ground and whine, while I clean up and make a profit. even if 10 more people say what you said that its not much of an issue if you have skill or what have you I still won`t care becuse its still an issue, 800WP + ISK while not loosing anything is pretty good to some people so railgun lineing won`t stop intill they won`t gain anything from it, its not like they are trolls who want to mess up your game, they are out for the WP/SP and even so little they will gladly take since there NO RISK for (as said in OP) 'risk reward system', its a contridiction to the games moto/style, its no matter what way you suger coat it an inbalance and needs to be changed, we don`t need to say my turrets bigger and so makes it a small issue or not an issue. as DUST freind said and I can relate since I`ve been here that long to its been 2 years with no chnage.
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 589	Posted - 2013.12.27 23:50:00 - [25] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: I can appreciate the problem that CCP has with trying to make something like tanks, that by nature dominate most things but other tanks, accessible to newer players that want to try them out or dive full into the playstyle. I do not think having a no SP investment and extremely low ISK option as the threshold for entry is the answer. So not only should tanks be only weak to tanks, skilled in tankers should only be weak tobskilled in tankers? Uh..what? I think you missed my point. My point is that it's too easy to get into tanking and that is an uber hammer that can be used both in and out of the redline. If I were right out of the academy and got splattered for a week straight I would be pretty tempted to even things up with the proto dude with the rail rifle that's been owning me by pulling in a militia tank and going positive for once in a pub match. Also...Lorhak's translation is of my post is pretty spot on.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 9384	Posted - 2013.12.28 02:40:00 - [26] - Quote Shouper of BHD wrote: Beld Errmon wrote: Heh for the vast majority of redline rail tankers I doubt they get rewarded much at all, i've seen many that get less then 3 kills in a match and have the warpoints of killing 3 or 4 turrets, don't get me wrong I can't stand persistent redline railgunners, but the only way its actually supported is with poorly designed maps. If this is more QQ about their effect on dropships all i can say is get good, with half a brain you can almost ignore the run of the mill railgun tards, I know I can and im not a well known dropship pilot from multiple builds, strangely many of the so called dropship pilots i've met run the ground and whine, while I clean up and make a profit. even if 10 more people say what you said that its not much of an issue if you have skill or what have you I still won`t care becuse its still an issue, 800WP + ISK while not loosing anything is pretty good to some people so railgun lineing won`t stop intill they won`t gain anything from it, its not like they are trolls who want to mess up your game, they are out for the WP/SP and even so little they will gladly take since there NO RISK for (as said in OP) 'risk reward system', its a contridiction to the games moto/style, its no matter what way you suger coat it an inbalance and needs to be changed, we don`t need to say my turrets bigger and so makes it a small issue or not an issue. as DUST freind said and I can relate since I`ve been here that long to its been 2 years with no chnage. The crux of the issue is that there is virtually no risk when you consider vehicle recall and that most redline positions make you immune to everything but another railgun, and an orbital strike, which have to be used in conjunction to down a skilled red line tanker (makes me feel dirty just saying that..) I still want railguns to be scary and viable, I just want them to have to risk their ISK and join the party like everyone else. YouTube Videos Incubus pilot, any ISK donated is used to purchase new ships
Mortedeamor 1142	Posted - 2013.12.28 02:44:00 - [27] - Quote you should add the new and loved jiiihad lav to that list of no skill tactics ccp promotes.. and in answer i think it is because ultimately all ccp cares about is squeezing money out of the gaming community who cares if vets leave if the game suck..new player join every day and before they catch on and learn to hate dust..they spend money. look at all the new players with positive attitudes ccp hasnt changed they're tune..they still do the same things..and the new players are not coming in do not know like we do how things have gone for the past year and a half..so they spend money they get fed up they quit..fresh meat comes in and the cycle repeats..i can only hope since its clear ccp doesn't care and isn't going to change things for the better one day sony removes this giant money scam from they're network. why use suits when ccp gave us nice shiny op as hell tanks that cost next to nothing
low genius the sound of freedom Renegade Alliance 1040	Posted - 2013.12.28 02:49:00 - [28] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Low skill, lower risk, high reward "tactics" such as red line sniping and rail tanking? I've been here almost 2 years, and I still can't grasp the reasoning behind this. What inspired you to throw out the risk vs reward formula for certain playstyles? seems like they're limiting these tactics more and more as time goes by. maybe look at your argument objectively.
Rusty Shallows 603	Posted - 2013.12.28 03:07:00 - [29] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: To give newer and/or less skilled players half a chance? More players = good. Isnt that why we have cheap ass, 0 sp, effective militia tanks? We have those because pre-1.7 n00b tankers sole purpose was to get me war points and kills with my iFG. Besides the problem is with all HAVs right now. Not just militia. I'm still against nerfing, pro buffing. MCC Lounge Lizard Forums > Game Fix the game CCP
I-Shayz-I I-----I 1755	Posted - 2013.12.28 03:14:00 - [30] - Quote Did you not read the dev blog about the research facility and the new maps? They said that they wanted to prevent people from doing this so they made it where you have to be a certain distance away from an objective in order to snipe that objective. They want to add this feature to new maps as well to make it so that after x height you can't get a good view of any objectives, thus preventing spiping without risk. Right now we still have old maps...and maps like the research facility are bad for vehicles anyways. Well, inside the facility that is. Right now, we don't have nearly enough "3 dementional" maps. Links: List of Most Important Threads I make logistics videos!



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