DUST Search - CCP, Why Do You Directly Support and Encourage

m twiggz wrote:

DUST Fiend wrote:

Low skill, lower risk, high reward "tactics" such as red line sniping and rail tanking? I've been here almost 2 years, and I still can't grasp the reasoning behind this.

What inspired you to throw out the risk vs reward formula for certain playstyles?

Risk vs reward is a huge factor in this game. I will agree that redline sniping and rail tanking takes very little risk, but often doesn't give a very good reward either. How often do you see teams with multiple redline snipers and rail tanks actually win? In my experience very rarely. I'd rather go completely negative and win a match than go ridiculously positive and lose. That mentality is what separates good players from bad players. If you have a high K/D and a poor W/L obviously you're one of the try hard kids who quits battles and runs around the outskirts of a map to grab easy kills.

I have no issue with redline snipers. It's their play style. No one should dictate what another player does, especially in a sandbox meta game. Learn to use cover better and not run out in open fields when there's snipers out there. It's truly not a hard concept to grasp. Quit QQ'ing about things you could easily avoid by playing with more intelligence.

"I am the punishment of God. Had you not commited great sins, God would not have sent a punishment

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Alldin Kan Imperfects Negative-Feedback 876	Posted - 2013.12.28 03:36:00 - [31] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Low skill, lower risk, high reward "tactics" such as red line sniping and rail tanking? I've been here almost 2 years, and I still can't grasp the reasoning behind this. What inspired you to throw out the risk vs reward formula for certain playstyles? Could've been simple to add a yellow line where the red line is normally at (for friendly side), but it's never going to happen... Uprising 1.7 - TANKDOMINATION!!1!!1! LOL Commando LOL Plasma Cannon
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 9384	Posted - 2013.12.28 03:42:00 - [32] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Low skill, lower risk, high reward "tactics" such as red line sniping and rail tanking? I've been here almost 2 years, and I still can't grasp the reasoning behind this. What inspired you to throw out the risk vs reward formula for certain playstyles? Could've been simple to add a yellow line where the red line is normally at (for friendly side), but it's never going to happen... I've actually thought of adding a yellow line as well, though not for that reason. I thought it up as a way to deter / eliminate the ability to troll blueberries by ejecting them from a dropship into the red zone. Truth be told I can't remember how I thought it would function, just that the yellow line seemed like a good idea the time. Videos "The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting" ~ Sun Tzu
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1329	Posted - 2013.12.28 10:23:00 - [33] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: I can appreciate the problem that CCP has with trying to make something like tanks, that by nature dominate most things but other tanks, accessible to newer players that want to try them out or dive full into the playstyle. I do not think having a no SP investment and extremely low ISK option as the threshold for entry is the answer. So not only should tanks be only weak to tanks, skilled in tankers should only be weak tobskilled in tankers? Congratulations on your reading comprehension failure! I'm pretty sure what he's saying is only 'nerf MLT gear'. Presumably part of that is adding effective counters to neutralise vehicles - things like webifiers, or maybe homing flux grenades or something - things that supplement the AV already existing. A swarm buff would also be in order. Have a look at my sig for bias, please, then realise that I'm in no way supporting the tank spam, at least once AV has a way of consistently denying tanks access to WP - for some reward of their own, of course. Yes he wants Mlt gear nerfed including Mlt Tanks, tnerefore Mlt tanks become less effective, resulting in vaccum where the only counter to a skilled in tank is a skilled in tank. So if the enemy deploys just 1 skilled in tanker, we have to deploy someone one the same meta level to stand a chance. Tanks are by no means balanced against AV, but I can (with 0sp on my main) deploy a rail tank and use that for AV. That is the only thing that is keeping tank v infantry combat at acceptable levels. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
steadyhand amarr Scions of Athra 2113	Posted - 2013.12.28 10:30:00 - [34] - Quote Remove warpoints introduce fixed isk contracts ie a set payment for winning "i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk" winner of EU squad cup GOGO power rangers
Wallaby1 The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 61	Posted - 2013.12.28 10:52:00 - [35] - Quote high reward from redline sniping? lol unless the reds are idiots that bluedot isnt likely to get more than 500 wp
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1579	Posted - 2013.12.28 11:04:00 - [36] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Low skill, lower risk, high reward "tactics" such as red line sniping and rail tanking? I've been here almost 2 years, and I still can't grasp the reasoning behind this. What inspired you to throw out the risk vs reward formula for certain playstyles? LOL IRONY Infantry cries for tank changes, and they don't like them. Tell them to use vehicles, they complain, and use cars anyway
PARKOUR PRACTIONER Redline Defense Force Seekers of the Unseen 138	Posted - 2013.12.28 11:38:00 - [37] - Quote I snipe, but not from redline. If I'm still a coward than that's too bad for me now isn't it? 'Don't talk to strangers, shoot them.' Snow LOCKOUT Think twice before you aim at me, you might already be dead.
Chrystalis213 Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 1	Posted - 2013.12.28 12:09:00 - [38] - Quote I read your Sun Tzu quote, Dust Fiend, and then your opening post and I am really confused. :)
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 9394	Posted - 2013.12.28 14:40:00 - [39] - Quote Chrystalis213 wrote: I read your Sun Tzu quote, Dust Fiend, and then your opening post and I am really confused. :) Even supreme arts have their niches, his quote applies to the bigger picture, and under certain circumstances can directly be applied as a tactic in combat. Videos "The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting" ~ Sun Tzu
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 9394	Posted - 2013.12.28 14:44:00 - [40] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Low skill, lower risk, high reward "tactics" such as red line sniping and rail tanking? I've been here almost 2 years, and I still can't grasp the reasoning behind this. What inspired you to throw out the risk vs reward formula for certain playstyles? LOL IRONY I don't see you flying dropships every day, so I'm pretty sure we have differing definitions of irony. Like, to me, irony is someone who thinks, or has ever thought, that current tanks are too weak and current AV is still too strong; is posting about irony, in a thread about low skill high reward things. That's irony. Videos "The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting" ~ Sun Tzu

Lorhak Gannarsein 925	Posted - 2013.12.28 15:21:00 - [41] - Quote I really like Impact Ridge (I think it's this one? With the points basically spread out east-west?)... no good places to railsnipe from xD those bastards have to mix it up at CQC. Where I am usually better than them. PRO tanker and proud. Lentarr Legionary.
Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 948	Posted - 2013.12.28 21:45:00 - [42] - Quote TheD1CK wrote: Princess Abi-Hime wrote: Operative 1171 Aajli wrote: The redline exists for the times that players like me want to halfass it and enjoy my beer. Man, I only have one hand available when the other has a beer. You know how hard it is to steer a tank or fire a sniper rifle with only one available hand? Answer: just like in RL. You think I'm joking but I'm not. solution: get a straw lol... or get a life Lol, I've got a life. Hence, the beer and not being that serious about this game. Do your part. Join the revolution. Sabotage FW. Help this game burn! BURN DUST 2014
Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 948	Posted - 2013.12.28 21:48:00 - [43] - Quote deepfried salad gilliam wrote: Operative 1171 Aajli wrote: The redline exists for the times that players like me want to halfass it and enjoy my beer. Man, I only have one hand available when the other has a beer. You know how hard it is to steer a tank or fire a sniper rifle with only one available hand? Answer: just like in RL. You think I'm joking but I'm not. pretty easy just use your knees it works for both options But I have to take swig every time I turn a corner GÇö which is a lot. Waste of a good beer to let go flat I tell ya! Do your part. Join the revolution. Sabotage FW. Help this game burn! BURN DUST 2014
AP Grasshopper The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 130	Posted - 2013.12.28 22:16:00 - [44] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: I can appreciate the problem that CCP has with trying to make something like tanks, that by nature dominate most things but other tanks, accessible to newer players that want to try them out or dive full into the playstyle. I do not think having a no SP investment and extremely low ISK option as the threshold for entry is the answer. So not only should tanks be only weak to tanks, skilled in tankers should only be weak tobskilled in tankers? Your english teacher would be proud.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 1417	Posted - 2013.12.28 23:07:00 - [45] - Quote Operative 1171 Aajli wrote: Lol, I've got a life. Hence, the beer and not being that serious about this game. I like your style. Beer has cost me many clones as well! "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
Guildo Crow ZionTCD Public Disorder. 174	Posted - 2013.12.28 23:14:00 - [46] - Quote What is stopping people from counter-sniping (tank or dropsuit)? Am I missing something here? Are people invisible in the redline?
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 9398	Posted - 2013.12.28 23:18:00 - [47] - Quote Operative 1171 Aajli wrote: deepfried salad gilliam wrote: Operative 1171 Aajli wrote: The redline exists for the times that players like me want to halfass it and enjoy my beer. Man, I only have one hand available when the other has a beer. You know how hard it is to steer a tank or fire a sniper rifle with only one available hand? Answer: just like in RL. You think I'm joking but I'm not. pretty easy just use your knees it works for both options But I have to take swig every time I turn a corner GÇö which is a lot. Waste of a good beer to let go flat I tell ya! Beer Hat Videos "The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting" ~ Sun Tzu
Chrystalis213 Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 9	Posted - 2013.12.29 03:48:00 - [48] - Quote Dust Fiend, it is not a lack of knowledge as to why that confused me. Quite the opposite, yet I do appreciate the attempt at education.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 9399	Posted - 2013.12.29 03:51:00 - [49] - Quote Chrystalis213 wrote: Dust Fiend, it is not a lack of knowledge as to why that confused me. Quite the opposite, yet I do appreciate the attempt at education. ::shrugs:: I'm talking game mechanics here, you're welcome to amuse yourself with semantics though. Videos "The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting" ~ Sun Tzu
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 581	Posted - 2013.12.29 04:40:00 - [50] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: To give newer and/or less skilled players half a chance? More players = good. Casual's don't want an easy game.... no one does. Trying to cater to making an "easy" area in the game for casual's is like shooting yourself in the foot. No one wants 0 challenge... and if they do its for a very very short stay.

Mitch Laurence The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 19	Posted - 2013.12.29 06:26:00 - [51] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Low skill, lower risk, high reward "tactics" such as red line sniping and rail tanking? What inspired you to throw out the risk vs reward formula for certain playstyles? What is this 'high reward' that you speak of? Some dude snipes 10 people in a match from the redline and dies thrice gets 500 WP and earns around 100k. Thats less than you get for putting down 2 uplinks and one hive in a match. Also you have to compare and consider your 2 years of SP to these month old mercs with no map knowledge or fit experience. They're broke, inexperienced & have low SP. You want to tax these people? You want to force them into a meat grinder to be slaughtered again and again and again? Do actually expect people to submit to getting proto stomped every match over and over? You might not remember all the way back 2 years ago but Sica rail & basic sniper are Starter fits, treat them as such. To all the newberries in the hills looking through militia scopes, one day it will be you flying to a secret perch mid field decimating your foes with impunity. Same goes out to those baby tankers too broke to lose a tank barely able to control the damn thing, one day you will own the battlefield. Never quit. o7 "People will say we're in love." -Hannibal Lecter
m twiggz Pradox One Proficiency V. 198	Posted - 2013.12.29 06:39:00 - [52] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Low skill, lower risk, high reward "tactics" such as red line sniping and rail tanking? I've been here almost 2 years, and I still can't grasp the reasoning behind this. What inspired you to throw out the risk vs reward formula for certain playstyles? Risk vs reward is a huge factor in this game. I will agree that redline sniping and rail tanking takes very little risk, but often doesn't give a very good reward either. How often do you see teams with multiple redline snipers and rail tanks actually win? In my experience very rarely. I'd rather go completely negative and win a match than go ridiculously positive and lose. That mentality is what separates good players from bad players. If you have a high K/D and a poor W/L obviously you're one of the try hard kids who quits battles and runs around the outskirts of a map to grab easy kills. I have no issue with redline snipers. It's their play style. No one should dictate what another player does, especially in a sandbox meta game. Learn to use cover better and not run out in open fields when there's snipers out there. It's truly not a hard concept to grasp. Quit QQ'ing about things you could easily avoid by playing with more intelligence.
Poonmunch Sanguis Defense Syndicate 722	Posted - 2013.12.29 06:49:00 - [53] - Quote TheD1CK wrote: Princess Abi-Hime wrote: Operative 1171 Aajli wrote: The redline exists for the times that players like me want to halfass it and enjoy my beer. Man, I only have one hand available when the other has a beer. You know how hard it is to steer a tank or fire a sniper rifle with only one available hand? Answer: just like in RL. You think I'm joking but I'm not. solution: get a straw lol... or get a life Or one of those hats that hold beers and have straws you can use with no hands. You think I'm kidding but I'm not. I'm a complete degenerate. Munch Dedicated Sniper. Minmatar Patriot (5).
COHLE DUST University Ivy League 20	Posted - 2013.12.29 16:19:00 - [54] - Quote m twiggz wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Low skill, lower risk, high reward "tactics" such as red line sniping and rail tanking? I've been here almost 2 years, and I still can't grasp the reasoning behind this. What inspired you to throw out the risk vs reward formula for certain playstyles? Risk vs reward is a huge factor in this game. I will agree that redline sniping and rail tanking takes very little risk, but often doesn't give a very good reward either. How often do you see teams with multiple redline snipers and rail tanks actually win? In my experience very rarely. I'd rather go completely negative and win a match than go ridiculously positive and lose. That mentality is what separates good players from bad players. If you have a high K/D and a poor W/L obviously you're one of the try hard kids who quits battles and runs around the outskirts of a map to grab easy kills. I have no issue with redline snipers. It's their play style. No one should dictate what another player does, especially in a sandbox meta game. Learn to use cover better and not run out in open fields when there's snipers out there. It's truly not a hard concept to grasp. Quit QQ'ing about things you could easily avoid by playing with more intelligence. Couldn't have said it better myself, minus the QQ step your game up comment, I've tried rail sniping and calling out targets for my ground troops while they take objectives, I felt like I helped when we won, but I didn't see much isk or sp from it... "I am the punishment of God. Had you not commited great sins, God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you."
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 1428	Posted - 2013.12.29 17:48:00 - [55] - Quote Bethhy wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: To give newer and/or less skilled players half a chance? More players = good. Casual's don't want an easy game.... no one does. Trying to cater to making an "easy" area in the game for casual's is like shooting yourself in the foot. No one wants 0 challenge... and if they do its for a very very short stay. No, nobody wants an easy game, but you are making the assumption that these are viable long-term styles of play. They aren't. If someone needs a redline to hide in because Nyain San brought 2 proto squads, 6 tanks and and 15,000 core locus grenades to Manus Peak, I don't really see that as a problem, personally. You've answered your own question by stating that no one wants an easy game. If so, then nobody is going to redline snipe forever, that would be boring as hell. If they are, fine, they can have their 4 or 5 kills, I'll learn to use cover better, and we'll all sing kumbayah afterwards around our campfire in Valhalla. Take a deep breath and try to enjoy the game and let others do the same. Better still, go to the feedback section and suggest a new hardcore game mode, basically corp battles with no redline and go tryhard v tryhard to your hearts content. More diversity and more people can play a way to their liking. Otherwise, give people a fighting chance, or do those of you who want the redlined removed enjoy noobstomping so much you want to just spawncamp under the MCC all day and turn it into a shooting gallery? Now there's no new players left to hide behind.a redline anyway; Hooray, we fixed dust! "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!


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