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Hidoi Reikoku
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.12.24 10:20:00 -
[1] - Quote
Snipers in Eve Dust are like mages in fantasy mmorpgs, we do our best work when we aren't tanking. Modern day snipers have Gilly suits, and essentially vanish from view in the field. The best we have is some really pathetic cloaking, of which I've seen no evidence that it actually works. So far the best bet for damage is logistics suit, (no cloaking) and hide in places most people don't look. Speaking of modern day sniping, the longest documented kill shot is 2,475 meters. It's sad that with the best rifle I've found so far in the game I can barely see a red at 550 meters. My longest kill shot so far was 596 meters. I took a picture. And my longest head shot so far was 560 meters. got a pic of that too.
There are very few maps that are conducive to sniping at range, and when I say at range I mean 300+ meters. I think it's good that you've made it so head shot kills are 60 points instead of 50, however, I think it would be nice if there was a distance multiplier figured in. When I take the time to pop someones head off at 460 meters (my average kill box range), it would be nice to get a little extra for that, but I wouldn't consider it a request, just an idle thought.
A side note about head shots. If I send a 3" flachette through someones head, nanites should be useless. It's not a matter of stopping a little blood, it's a matter of reconstructing grey matter in the field in a matter of a few seconds. Headshots should kill clones dead, with no reviving. Nothing like watching someone I just klaxoned rise from the dead because their buddy has a nanite syringe.
All the sniper rifle scopes have one zoom level, and the clarity of focus between one gun to the next (starting with the militia sniper rifle, and going up to the Kalukua whichever, I know it starts with a K) is barely noticeable. I know that if my target is using the basic sniper class, he can't see me at the range I can take his head off with the Kalukua sniper rifle. Having a multiple zoom level would be nice, and being able to zoom across the map, which is expected seeing as this is a future set timeline. (How sad is it that computer aided scopes in the future have less visual range than a set of binoculars you can buy at a dollar store?) The round travels down range at 2500 meters per second, which is a good step up seeing as a .50 cal round only travels around 800 meters per second. For a 3 inch flachette round, even on a heavy suit wearing red, it shouldn't take more than 2 consecutive shots to the head to kill them. Most of the armor is on the body, any armor boosts should significantly drop their movement speed, and reaction speed. To stop a 3" flachette travelling at 2500 meters per second, the shield should be gone with the first shot. Especially with a head shot. I've scoped in on heavies with shields north of 600, and armor north of 800, it takes 5-7 shots to drop them. Getting them to hold still for consecutive headshots isn't going to happen, and the first headshot typically only takes half their shield, if I'm lucky. This is with 3 damage modifiers, and 15% damage boost from gun proficiency. And the only way I kill them first is if they are more than 300 meters away.
Another issue with the zoom, Although it's nice to have all that info on the screen, it would be better if the range finder/target info worked at ALL ranges, (like most of the reds I drop over 520 meters I get no details at all about my target.) and was in a better position like near the target at the top of the scope, with the % right near the target. It takes time to glance down, check for 175%, look back at the target, nudge, glance, look, nudge glance look, rinse repeat, klaxon.
I almost exclusively play as a sniper. There are two things I absolutely loathe about this game. The first is getting dropped into a battle that has been going on for some time. As a sniper, my odds of getting killed repeatedly just jumped exponentially. It takes time to get into a position, and very very rarely can I make it to my nest on the map before I get run over, or have a tank blow me up if I get dumped into a battle in progress. I would prefer an option in the battle select screen where I can toggle whether I want to join a battle in progress or always start from the beginning. I really love getting dumped into battles where I don't even get to rez before the MCC blows up or my team runs out of clones. And love means hate, just in case you missed the sarcasm. The second thing I loathe is not being able to choose which theater I operate in. I'll randomly get dumped into a map of your choosing, and be expected to make the best of the situation. It's taken me a few months to master the best places to snipe from on 1 of the maps, and I don't know how many maps there are in total, but I only know I do exceedingly awesome on one map on domination mode. The rest is a crapshoot. It would be nice to be able to do some non combat walkthroughs of a map, run amok, check angles, figure out hiding places, etc, etc, or at least be able to play the same map style over and over again.
A glitch I've noticed. Some wall textures cause players to go totally invisible when they stand in front of them at 300+ meters scoped view. Can't even trust that the percentage reading of 99%-175% is accurate, because they could be in front of, or behind the wall, best to shoot on 175% and see what happens. I shoot a lot of walls, and occasionally klaxon players. This happens most often on the tall building clusters, where there are long ladders to the roof.
Overall, playing a sniper is fun. Ideally I'd like to be able to pop heads off at 700-800 meters, and be able to see someone's head in my scope in painful detail at that range. How about a damage multiplier for hitting the target in the left sinusal cavity? Also it would be nice if you could go prone, to the ideal shooting position, then scope movements would be even finer.
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Auris Lionesse
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
17
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Posted - 2013.12.24 11:12:00 -
[2] - Quote
Hi blueberry |
Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
1967
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Posted - 2013.12.24 13:34:00 -
[3] - Quote
This is a well thought out post and I respect your skill and perspective. But it is also very one sided. It would have been clear even without you mentioning it that you only play a Sniper. Having played both Sniper and Frontline Infantry I am afraid that there are balance problems with giving you much of what you ask for.
As far as getting a crappy Sniping map (some of the new maps suck for sniping) or joining battles already in progress, if you go into the battle menu there is a Leave Battle option. If you have already deployed, hit Start to get to it.
It is more difficult to specialise in Sniping than it once was.
By the way 596m is the longest kill I have heard of. The previous record that I was aware of was 582m. Have you killed a falling merc yet? As in dropping from the MCC, a Dropship, or jumping off a tall building. I only managed that once, but it is sort of a right of passage for a sniper.
I do think that with the fix to Hit Detection that the balance between sniper rifles and Infantry rifles is out of balance. The Time To Kill for Infantry Rifles dropped considerably when Hit Detection was fixed, but Sniper Rifles were unchanged. When the TTK issue is fixed, I hope CCP does not forget to consider the Sniper Rifle. If TTK is fixed by buffing health, then high Alpha weapons such as the Sniper Rifle, Shot Gun, and Remote Explosives will need a damage buff to keep up.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else, there is the Learning Coalition.
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Sole Fenychs
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
8
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Posted - 2013.12.24 13:44:00 -
[4] - Quote
Wait, you want the sniper rifle to insta-deplete shields? Are you nuts? Do you even know what balance is?
I'm a sniper and that idea is ridiculous. The sniper rifle already does decent damage.
If you REALLY want that to be a feature, you'd need the sniper rifle to gain damage increase over range. That would force you to find a far-away sniper nest, causing you to have smaller targets to shoot and sub-optimal angles of attack. Otherwise, you'd just go close and insta pop everyone.
I didn't know about the better sights on better rifles, though. That's fascinating to know. |
TheEnd762
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
277
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Posted - 2013.12.24 14:04:00 -
[5] - Quote
I'm a dedicated sniper myself, but much of what you're asking for is unreasonable.
The new maps need some decent, unobstructed platforms, but other than that they're fine.
WP payouts are fine as they are. We should consider ourselves lucky the +10 headshot bonus exists and is applicable to sniper rifles (wouldn't have put it past CCP to make it not).
Headshot or no, people need to be able to be revived. As a sniper, I don't know why you'd mind. If someone goes to revive an enemy you just put down, it's usually good for at least one more kill, either the person doing the needling, the person who was just revived, or both.
Yes, we need more zoom.
Heavies are meant to be hard to kill. Stop wasting your rounds on them, or pick them off after someone else has softened them up.
Getting dropped into a battle that's already going on can be annoying (especially if it ends right away, but hey, you get a little ISK) but that's the way it is. Check the map, pick you spawn carefully, or just leave. There are plenty of battles I get dropped into where I don't like the map, or the team I'm on is getting redlined. I just leave and find a new one.
If you can't get setup on your perch during a battle, you're either not very good, or you need to find a new perch. I find there are times when it can be EASIER to get to my perch during a battle (depending on the map) as people are distracted. At the start of a battle, a dropship taking off from the opposing side is going to be obvious to the enemy. During battle, they'll be too busy watching out for infantry and trying to hold objectives to watch the sky.
Snipers need a little love, but it's probably not going to happen, since there's too many whiny, ignorant mouth-breathers who throw a tantrum about being sniped, but it's definitely not going to happen with ideas like that. |
Cyzad4
Blackfish Corp.
65
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Posted - 2013.12.24 16:08:00 -
[6] - Quote
long story short, I wouldn't get your hopes up for sniping getting fixed any time soon (read "soon" as ever). I sniped 99% of the time up till a few updates back, I don't even bother picking up an SR anymore it's too aggravating, they've completely butchered the role. It doesn't help that as soon as anything to do w fixing sniping is mentioned on the boards gets collectively **** for no other reason than "F**ck sniper n00bs lolz"
(Gò»°Gûí°n+ëGò»n+¦ Gö+GöüGö+ "fuck this I'm out"...
...
..."I'm back"
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Sole Fenychs
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
8
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Posted - 2013.12.24 16:33:00 -
[7] - Quote
I want a personal jetpack to get better sniper spots and to be able to re-locate quickly. There's an incredible sense of pressure when playing sniper with a squad because a sniper needs time to set up and you can't just climb on top of the small structures that lie everywhere. |
Ensar Cael
Dead Man's Game
72
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Posted - 2013.12.24 17:03:00 -
[8] - Quote
You need to think a bit quicker then OP. Sniping in DUST is a hard role to play well. The best snipers move constantly across the field and take the shots as they find them. Every map is different but moving around them will help you find where to be. Static sniping is really just the low end of it all.
Try recon sniping for a squad. It's hard as hell, dangerous (more so with the newer weapons out there) but ultimately rewarding if you work with the squad well. |
John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy
828
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Posted - 2013.12.24 17:13:00 -
[9] - Quote
<-- Former full time sniper, now just do it for shitz n giggles or to deal with red snipers.
What you are asking for is to be OP, OP. You need to be a little more realistic. Of all your suggestions, the multiple zoom (maybe 2 levels) and better zoom for higher tier rifles is certainly needed. As for the rest, pretty much no:
- The map you are thinking of is almost certainly Manus Peak, which has always been a snipers paradise. Just playing the same map over and over again would be super boring. Also: I like that map too, it's fun and easy to manage tactically as a logi but trust me, nobody would choose manus peak if single maps were selectable because it would immediately turn into one big broken shooting gallery as all the snipers would gravitate to it. (Edit: Though now that I think of it that would be a kinda fun game mode, just hunting other snipers... I feel a suggestion thread coming on...)
- You should not be able to OHK every single suit in the game. Heavies are slow for a reason. Use a tac sniper if they are your target (i.e., tower forge sniper)
- Range is maybe a little short considering some of the new maps but Thales redline snipers would be OP as hell virtual mini-orbitals with the distances you are talking about. Climb into a sniper tower or builidng near the Manus Peak groundspawn or crouch behind a ridge somewhere waaay in the back of your own redline out of scanner range and just pop people from the far opposite side of the map with no hope of anything but an orbital (maybe) killing you? Sure, sounds fair.
- There is less armor on the head. That's why there's a damage multiplier. Should it be a little higher, like 200%? Maybe, not sure about the maths.
- We have inertial dampers that allow us to not even flinch at a terminal velocity fall. Why would our shields be totally incapable of dealing with a small projectile?
- Prone? There's almost no scope sway at proto as it is, why do you need that? To be even more invisible at the back of your own redline, perhaps? Again, sure, sounds totally balanced.
- Nobody likes getting dropped into battles at the very end, that's certainly not unique to snipers!
- Coming in late is not that big a disadvantage to snipers as already mentioned, people are distracted and won't notice a dropship as quickly. You also know where the flow of battle is going and can pick a spot accordingly. Snipers might even have a little less disadvantage than infantry in this regard.
"The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu
Amarr victor!
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Ghermard-ol Dizeriois
Maphia Clan Corporation
28
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Posted - 2013.12.24 17:49:00 -
[10] - Quote
<-- common sniper
I agree sniper rifles here on DUST are very weakened if compared to Terran weapons, especially their range.
My farthest recorded kill is 598.98m (thanks God I managed to take a picture), but IIRC I couldn't even see the target, I only shot toward a red arrow.
OP, I agree with you on 2 things: GÇó another zoom level (for all SR except MLT) GÇó head shots must deal total death, nobody should be revived after that (not only after being hit by a sniper)
Hidoi Reikoku wrote:Speaking of modern day sniping, the longest documented kill shot is 2,475 meters. It's sad that with the best rifle I've found so far in the game I can barely see a red at 550 meters. My longest kill shot so far was 596 meters. I took a picture. And my longest head shot so far was 560 meters. got a pic of that too.
Can you provide proofs about that? My last records point out kills at ~ 1.5 km, which is way closer than 2.5 km.
If you're an hacker, a cheater o a glitcher, you deserve death. In real life.
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Eko Sol
3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance
2
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Posted - 2013.12.24 20:14:00 -
[11] - Quote
<------Frontline (Guess this is a thing to tell people what you do)
So, I'm going to try to be nice here. First off, I LOATHE the fact that people that ONLY play as SNIPERS actually only play as snipers in this game. I can't tell you how many times we lost a Skirm or Dom game because 5 or 6 guys are sitting way back on the map to get 3 kills and not die. I mean, that makes you 3/0 with no additional support worth a darn for the team. If the map isn't conducive then use another fit or use another game. The purpose of the maps is to force different strategies for different players.
Do you think that all front line fits are valid? The answer is no. If the NULL i want is in the open then I need different grenades and more armor/shield modules because there is less cover. If it is more enclosed then I need to use less of that and stick to detection prevention. The same has to go with being a sniper. If you aren't going to get what you want, then you need to choose another route or suck it up a bit.
On top of all of that, I can tell you that some of the "glitches" of people disappearing is actually a real life thing when zooming long distances on camouflaged targets.
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TheEnd762
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
280
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Posted - 2013.12.24 20:29:00 -
[12] - Quote
Ensar Cael wrote:You need to think a bit quicker then OP. Sniping in DUST is a hard role to play well. The best snipers move constantly across the field and take the shots as they find them. Every map is different but moving around them will help you find where to be. Static sniping is really just the low end of it all.
False. Moving takes up valuable shooting time, and can expose you. The best snipers never need to move. Once I'm at one of my perches, I don't move unless the tide of the battle completely shifts from my view, or I get discovered/killed (which is very rare).
John Demonsbane wrote: The map you are thinking of is almost certainly Manus Peak, which has always been a snipers paradise. Just playing the same map over and over again would be super boring. Also: I like that map too, it's fun and easy to manage tactically as a logi but trust me, nobody would choose manus peak if single maps were selectable because it would immediately turn into one big broken shooting gallery as all the snipers would gravitate to it. (Edit: Though now that I think of it that would be a kinda fun game mode, just hunting other snipers... I feel a suggestion thread coming on...)
Manus Peak? Really? I HATE that map. It was tolerable when the spire could be stood on, but now there's no good perches at all. Everything can be reached from the ground by ladder, and is within AR/CR range. I don't even bother dropping in when get a match there.
Quote:Range is maybe a little short considering some of the new maps but Thales redline snipers would be OP as hell virtual mini-orbitals with the distances you are talking about. Climb into a sniper tower or builidng near the Manus Peak groundspawn or crouch behind a ridge somewhere waaay in the back of your own redline out of scanner range and just pop people from the far opposite side of the map with no hope of anything but an orbital (maybe) killing you? Sure, sounds fair.
Don't compare actual snipers to people who shoot from the redline. It completely forfeits credibility in these discussions. "B-b-but the redline!" is never a good counter-argument when it comes to sniper topics. As for Thales, they're all but extinct. Pretty sure they've either been dropped completely from salvage tables, or only drop 1/10,000 or something like that. The fact of the matter is, sniper rifles are long range alpha weapons. |
TheEnd762
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
280
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Posted - 2013.12.24 20:44:00 -
[13] - Quote
Eko Sol wrote:<------Frontline (Guess this is a thing to tell people what you do)
So, I'm going to try to be nice here. First off, I LOATHE the fact that people that ONLY play as SNIPERS actually only play as snipers in this game. I can't tell you how many times we lost a Skirm or Dom game because 5 or 6 guys are sitting way back on the map to get 3 kills and not die. I mean, that makes you 3/0 with no additional support worth a darn for the team. If the map isn't conducive then use another fit or use another game. The purpose of the maps is to force different strategies for different players.
Thank you for trying to be nice. I'll try to do the same while I point out your misconceptions. If you have 5-6 guys sniping on a team, you've got some ****** teammates. No team needs more than 3 dedicated snipers. Now, if they're sitting back behind the redline, picking people off to pad their K/D ratio, then they ARE NOT SNIPERS. THEY'RE TURDS USING SNIPER RIFLES, AND RUINING THE REPUTATION OF ACTUAL SNIPERS. I am an ACTUAL sniper. The only time I shoot from the redline is A) when counter-sniping someone who is shooting into or near my redline, or B) when my team is already being redlined. Other than that, I'm on a perch somewhere out in the map, covering objectives, taking out uplinks and nanohives, killing reds waiting for vehicles to drop, and more. Even with the stupid new maps with their underground terminals, I'm never in a position where i can't cover at least TWO letters. Learn the difference. |
Eko Sol
3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance
2
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Posted - 2013.12.24 21:05:00 -
[14] - Quote
TheEnd762 wrote:Eko Sol wrote:<------Frontline (Guess this is a thing to tell people what you do)
So, I'm going to try to be nice here. First off, I LOATHE the fact that people that ONLY play as SNIPERS actually only play as snipers in this game. I can't tell you how many times we lost a Skirm or Dom game because 5 or 6 guys are sitting way back on the map to get 3 kills and not die. I mean, that makes you 3/0 with no additional support worth a darn for the team. If the map isn't conducive then use another fit or use another game. The purpose of the maps is to force different strategies for different players.
Thank you for trying to be nice. I'll try to do the same while I point out your misconceptions. If you have 5-6 guys sniping on a team, you've got some ****** teammates. No team needs more than 3 dedicated snipers. Now, if they're sitting back behind the redline, picking people off to pad their K/D ratio, then they ARE NOT SNIPERS. THEY'RE TURDS USING SNIPER RIFLES, AND RUINING THE REPUTATION OF ACTUAL SNIPERS. I am an ACTUAL sniper. The only time I shoot from the redline is A) when counter-sniping someone who is shooting into or near my redline, or B) when my team is already being redlined. Other than that, I'm on a perch somewhere out in the map, covering objectives, taking out uplinks and nanohives, killing reds waiting for vehicles to drop, and more. Even with the stupid new maps with their underground terminals, I'm never in a position where i can't cover at least TWO letters. Learn the difference.
Difference noted. Thatnks for being nice as well :)
So, I will try harder to identify the legit snipers vs the turds. I guess I was going to far by assuming so many are turds. |
TheEnd762
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
281
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Posted - 2013.12.24 22:25:00 -
[15] - Quote
Eko Sol wrote:Difference noted. Thatnks for being nice as well :)
So, I will try harder to identify the legit snipers vs the turds. I guess I was going to far by assuming so many are turds.
Thank you. Don't get me wrong, the turds are out there, but so are the work-horse snipers like myself. I don't want to be behind the redline. It's boring. The view sucks and there's so few targets. If I'm not getting at least 10 kills a match, I'm disappointed in myself. I may not be running around at ground level in the meat-grinder with the cannon-fodder, but I'm overhead, DOING STUFF. |
George Moros
Area 514
222
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Posted - 2013.12.24 22:32:00 -
[16] - Quote
TheEnd762 wrote:Ensar Cael wrote:You need to think a bit quicker then OP. Sniping in DUST is a hard role to play well. The best snipers move constantly across the field and take the shots as they find them. Every map is different but moving around them will help you find where to be. Static sniping is really just the low end of it all. False. Moving takes up valuable shooting time, and can expose you. The best snipers never need to move. Once I'm at one of my perches, I don't move unless the tide of the battle completely shifts from my view, or I get discovered/killed (which is very rare).
This. I dunno how many times I've read the "good sniper moves constantly" argument. Do people making this argument pay attention to the position (and frequency of it's change) of snipers that are actually good? Sniper that changes position every 30 seconds, will spend most of the match running around, and very little time spotting and killing the enemy (and removing uplinks / nanohives - this is a very important role that many people overlook). If a sniper can't make at least 10 kills per match, on a regular basis, he's doing something wrong. Sniping is, in essence, the art of positioning yourself smartly (having a good FoV of the area you expect your targets to be, while at the same time being covered from counter snipers), setting up a nest there, and doing as much damage as possible. That's all there is to it. And if a sniper does that every match, and does it well, nobody in their right mind can claim he's useless to his team.
/rant
Pulvereus ergo queritor.
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TheEnd762
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
282
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Posted - 2013.12.24 22:57:00 -
[17] - Quote
George Moros wrote:TheEnd762 wrote:Ensar Cael wrote:You need to think a bit quicker then OP. Sniping in DUST is a hard role to play well. The best snipers move constantly across the field and take the shots as they find them. Every map is different but moving around them will help you find where to be. Static sniping is really just the low end of it all. False. Moving takes up valuable shooting time, and can expose you. The best snipers never need to move. Once I'm at one of my perches, I don't move unless the tide of the battle completely shifts from my view, or I get discovered/killed (which is very rare). This. I dunno how many times I've read the "good sniper moves constantly" argument. Do people making this argument pay attention to the position (and frequency of it's change) of snipers that are actually good? Sniper that changes position every 30 seconds, will spend most of the match running around, and very little time spotting and killing the enemy (and removing uplinks / nanohives - this is a very important role that many people overlook). If a sniper can't make at least 10 kills per match, on a regular basis, he's doing something wrong. Sniping is, in essence, the art of positioning yourself smartly (having a good FoV of the area you expect your targets to be, while at the same time being covered from counter snipers), setting up a nest there, and doing as much damage as possible. That's all there is to it. And if a sniper does that every match, and does it well, nobody in their right mind can claim he's useless to his team. /rant YES. OH GOD YES.
And while we're clearing things up, to all the people who like to bring up "medium range snipers" that are "on the ground, running with a squad", you are stupid. Those are not snipers. Those are designated marksmen, and their role is better suited to a Tac-AR/Combat Rifle/Scrambler. Big difference. Stop trying to get us down in the meat grinder. IT'S NEVER GONNA HAPPEN. |
Talos Vagheitan
Ancient Exiles.
313
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Posted - 2013.12.24 23:56:00 -
[18] - Quote
But then again...
Who cares what some sniper has to say
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Exionous
Abandoned Privilege
77
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Posted - 2013.12.25 00:03:00 -
[19] - Quote
Most of this, I would like to see. Then at the same time it would be a living nightmare for those pesky Thale users that you just never seem to be able to find.
- I've been asking for prone for, like, forever. Just wonder what kind of balancing it would have.
- An OHK with shielding on is a little unrealistic. If you hit the shielding of one of our lovely fashionable suits, the shields stop the bullet, absorbs the force, and lets the clone live to see another... 2 or 3 seconds usually.
- The thing with multiple zoom functions would probably be only the tactical/prototype variants would have it. I don't know which one it would be; I'm not a Dev.
- I would be vewy vewy grateful, CCP, if you fixed that ridiculous bug where there's invisible walls blocking our FOV to someone when they're far away. I've wasted so many bullets and so many suits trying to deal with that crap, it's not even cute anymore. It wasn't cute to begin with.
- Be careful what you wish for with range. You know dem Thale users would love that.
- Sniper battle only mode? ... meh I'd lose too much money. |
John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy
833
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Posted - 2013.12.25 04:45:00 -
[20] - Quote
TheEnd762 wrote:George Moros wrote:TheEnd762 wrote:Ensar Cael wrote:You need to think a bit quicker then OP. Sniping in DUST is a hard role to play well. The best snipers move constantly across the field and take the shots as they find them. Every map is different but moving around them will help you find where to be. Static sniping is really just the low end of it all. False. Moving takes up valuable shooting time, and can expose you. The best snipers never need to move. Once I'm at one of my perches, I don't move unless the tide of the battle completely shifts from my view, or I get discovered/killed (which is very rare). This. I dunno how many times I've read the "good sniper moves constantly" argument. Do people making this argument pay attention to the position (and frequency of it's change) of snipers that are actually good? Sniper that changes position every 30 seconds, will spend most of the match running around, and very little time spotting and killing the enemy (and removing uplinks / nanohives - this is a very important role that many people overlook). If a sniper can't make at least 10 kills per match, on a regular basis, he's doing something wrong. Sniping is, in essence, the art of positioning yourself smartly (having a good FoV of the area you expect your targets to be, while at the same time being covered from counter snipers), setting up a nest there, and doing as much damage as possible. That's all there is to it. And if a sniper does that every match, and does it well, nobody in their right mind can claim he's useless to his team. /rant YES. OH GOD YES. And while we're clearing things up, to all the people who like to bring up "medium range snipers" that are "on the ground, running with a squad", you are stupid. Those are not snipers. Those are designated marksmen, and their role is better suited to a Tac-AR/Combat Rifle/Scrambler. Big difference. Stop trying to get us down in the meat grinder. IT'S NEVER GONNA HAPPEN.
I hold no hate for snipers, but let's be honest, if there is one thing we've learned the past several months it's that you need to consider the douchy players when designing ANYTHING. So, that's taken into account when I make any statements about changes to sniper rifles.
"The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu
Amarr victor!
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TheEnd762
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
284
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Posted - 2013.12.25 05:21:00 -
[21] - Quote
John Demonsbane wrote:I hold no hate for snipers, but let's be honest, if there is one thing we've learned the past several months it's that you need to consider the douchy players when designing ANYTHING. So, that's taken into account when I make any statements about changes to sniper rifles.
Take them into account, sure, but they should not be the deciding factor or majority consideration. |
Draco Cerberus
BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder.
630
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Posted - 2013.12.25 07:45:00 -
[22] - Quote
George Moros wrote: This. I dunno how many times I've read the "good sniper moves constantly" argument. Do people making this argument pay attention to the position (and frequency of it's change) of snipers that are actually good? Sniper that changes position every 30 seconds, will spend most of the match running around, and very little time spotting and killing the enemy (and removing uplinks / nanohives - this is a very important role that many people overlook). If a sniper can't make at least 10 kills per match, on a regular basis, he's doing something wrong. Sniping is, in essence, the art of positioning yourself smartly (having a good FoV of the area you expect your targets to be, while at the same time being covered from counter snipers), setting up a nest there, and doing as much damage as possible. That's all there is to it. And if a sniper does that every match, and does it well, nobody in their right mind can claim he's useless to his team.
Although I agree it sounds difficult and most likely is, I have seen some very exceptionally skilled sniper rifle users do this in full proto gear both in Pub matches and PC battles. From what I understand the key is to move, find A target (not multiple) fire (OHK) move again to your next spot. Most kills will turn out being around 150-200m and at that range, as long as you are hidden from their view, you will have a huge advantage in that you are able to use the scope to guarantee a hit, usually with the head big enough to not miss even if off center. I have done a mixture of both types of sniping and find the moving type gets you killed a bit more often but is not really overly expensive unless you decide you need a Thales/Charged SR to make your point, the NT-511 will often be sufficient or even the Kalakiota Tactical SR which allows you to fire shots off in rapid succession.
LogiGod earns his pips
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Mitch Laurence
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
11
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Posted - 2013.12.25 19:01:00 -
[23] - Quote
Can't quote everyone so I'm just gonna rant...
Dust snipers have 'ghillie' suits, they're labeled as 'complex profile dampeners". They work well.
Being effective on one map on one game mode does not make you effective.
Finding the good spots on new maps almost requires the use of a dropship, ALL snipers should be able to fly and have a stockpile of dropships for personal transportation.
The zoom range is unrealistic in the classic future sense of the game, but still balanced in the sense that although targets are small, you can see what others cannot.
Hitting tiny targets at long range with the current hit detection is easier than hitting mid range targets. Try it, shoot at 'jumpers' at 300m then back up to around 450m, its stupid how much easier it gets.
Killing 10 people in a match is a low standard in my book, 20 kills minimum is where snipers should feel comfortable. There should be NO deaths period.
A sniper should be able to take as much damage as he can put out in one shot. A sniper should be wreaking so much havoc the enemy that he IS getting shot once or twice, but he should NOT die.
Snipers should be attacking from the flanks, let the main force attack from the front. That means learning to stray further and further from your redline.
Headshot kills cannot be revived, that haven't been revivable for some time. I don't even get the argument here. Even if you body shot a guy and someone runs up with a needle you have two options: 1. keep the scope on them and a soon as they pop kill em again, and their friend 2. shooting the dead body will render him un revivable.
Good sniper fits are almost OP as is, good sniper fits are very SP intensive. So in time, with dedicated SP investment, you will be OP(almost). I'm talking 10-12 million SP so be patient and dedicated to strictly sniper fit upgrades.
I agree 100% on matchmaking issues.
So all in all good post OP, but I think you need a bit more time in the sniper seat before pondering a buff. To all the other dedicated snipers, o7 & never quit updating, upgrading, and perfecting those sniper fits and tactics.
"People will say we're in love." -Hannibal Lecter
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Ensar Cael
Dead Man's Game
73
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Posted - 2013.12.26 02:21:00 -
[24] - Quote
Everyone has their own style I guess. I enjoy running around the map supporting my squad/ team with my charge and SMG. I prefer shooting from lower down, especially at tower perches, etc. It can be a meat grinder but if you are good enough, you can come out on the other side with a decent haul of kills. I also find it more challenging than hanging around the redline or sitting static.
Fully agree that any sniper should be able to work all the maps. Some are better than others but you should be able to score decent kills on ANY map.
They do need to buff the sniper damage to keep it in line with the HP increase though ;)
I have had some very very very intense sniper fights, but they seem to be tailing off a lot these days as more and more of us disappear. We were few and far as it was
Those of you that are left I too salute you and hope we all keep bringing the fear to the field. I look forward to sniping with and against you all o7 |
FarQue FromAfar
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
2
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Posted - 2013.12.26 04:26:00 -
[25] - Quote
I agree on the scopes, it is silly that the future can not match what we have right now on range. There should be adjustable zoom levels available to the different variants. We really need to get back to the long range we used to have 1.4 and prior, even 1.5 seen some range nerfing, but 1.7 the whole sniper mechanics have gone to garbage. The people saying invisible walls, it is a CCP known rendering issue, where at 250ish and up the people are rendering through walls, hill sides, and bridge beams. I have been accused of " Head Glitching" because I am 3 meters behind a hill side and poking my head up just far enough to get a clean shot off, meanwhile they can see my entire body, and as any sniper knows, the point of impact dot turns red even when the target is underground.... True snipers know how to use cover to conceal all of your body to get a shot, and reveal only what is necessary to get a kill. Every good player, frontline or not knows how to duck behind a box, wait till a red spends a full mag, and then stands up to shoot at the red... that is not a glitch.
The sniper rifle should be feared, it should be one of the strongest weapons on the battlefield, real or virtual. Some maps are not very sniper friendly, but on a few of those maps I have pulled off some amazing kill numbers. Also, if I am not in a squad, do not expect me to play my game to suit YOUR needs. I can manage to disrupt the reds just fine through killing their logis, players, and equipment. I provide covered fire to assist blues when they are pinned down and move to locations of my own choice. Thank you CCP for cutting 50wp on madberries who want to stand there shooting you with a smg thinking that is going to disrupt me. I honestly like when a madberry stands in front of me, it just gives me additional shield and armor because they will get hit and killed long before I start to take damage. |
George Moros
Area 514
223
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Posted - 2013.12.26 14:10:00 -
[26] - Quote
Mitch Laurence wrote: Dust snipers have 'ghillie' suits, they're labeled as 'complex profile dampeners". They work well.
They work well you say? OK, please, fit one on your sniper outfit (even better, fit several, just to make sure), climb a hill top, or the top of some building, and (assuming at least one half-decent sniper is on the opposing team), see how much time does it take for him to take you out.
The purpose of Ghillie suits is to make snipers difficult to detect visually. Profile dampeners do no such thing at all.
Pulvereus ergo queritor.
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John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy
1398
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Posted - 2013.12.26 15:10:00 -
[27] - Quote
Mitch Laurence wrote:Can't quote everyone so I'm just gonna rant...
Good sniper fits are almost OP as is, good sniper fits are very SP intensive. So in time, with dedicated SP investment, you will be OP(almost). I'm talking 10-12 million SP so be patient and dedicated to strictly sniper fit upgrades.
So all in all good post OP, but I think you need a bit more time in the sniper seat before pondering a buff. To all the other dedicated snipers, o7 & never quit updating, upgrading, and perfecting those sniper fits and tactics.
I snipped out most of it b/c I agree, but SP intensive? C'mon! Try being a logi sometime. At 10-12 mil you're maybe becoming functional at a decent level in logistics if you are very efficient in how you spent it. "Real" tankers dont have it as bad as they did pre-1.7, but it's still probably at least as bad as logistics.
At 10-12 mil you're pretty much maxed out for 90% of situations you're going to run into as a sniper. Rifle, SMG, dampeners, damage mods, and that about it (plus generic stuff everyone needs like core skills). No point in going past a militia derpship.
There aren't any 5x skills in that tree I am aware of. Again, I'm no sniper hater, I do it myself sometimes, but I couldn't let that one go. Sniping is not the ez mode everyone says it is, but one thing it definitely is not is SP intensive compared to other classes.
"The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu
Amarr victor!
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