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Bullet Drop for Sniper Rifles?

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Ulysses Knapse Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm 843	Posted - 2013.12.20 18:01:00 - [1] - Quote Assuming Earth-like gravity, and assuming the Sniper Rifle item description is accurate, the bullet drop wouldn't even be noticeable until around 500 meters. So, why not add bullet drop? That way we can nerf Sniper Rifles without actually nerfing Sniper Rifles. Talos Vagheitan would surely endorse this idea. What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage? The pile of garbage looks nicer.
Lonegnr Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 15	Posted - 2013.12.20 18:08:00 - [2] - Quote Except, like you just said, you're not nerfing them; most people interested in sniper rifles adjust to bullet drop very quickly, so why would CCP waste time on this when they're already so behind on everything else?
TheEnd762 SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 262	Posted - 2013.12.20 18:11:00 - [3] - Quote This has been brought up a thousand times by various sniper-hating miscreants, and the answers are always the same: -Taking into account the sniper rifles in Dust are rail weapons, they wouldn't experience any noticeable bullet drop for well over 1000m, so until we have maps that large (not to mention scopes and the draw distance to support shooting that far) they already HAVE the proper amount of bullet drop, for all intents and purposes. -Apparently the devs have stated the game can't handle all the calculations that would be required -**** you. Snipers have already been crapped on enough.
Ulysses Knapse Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm 843	Posted - 2013.12.20 18:11:00 - [4] - Quote Lonegnr wrote: Except, like you just said, you're not nerfing them; most people interested in sniper rifles adjust to bullet drop very quickly, so why would CCP waste time on this when they're already so behind on everything else? Lonegnr, my friend, you have yet to experience the greatness of negligible bullet drop! Come, I have much to teach you... What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage? The pile of garbage looks nicer.
Ulysses Knapse Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm 843	Posted - 2013.12.20 18:15:00 - [5] - Quote TheEnd762 wrote: they wouldn't experience any noticeable bullet drop for well over 1000m. Not so! Judging by my calculations, bullet drop would become noticeable at around 500m. What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage? The pile of garbage looks nicer.
Samael Artico Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 28	Posted - 2013.12.20 18:17:00 - [6] - Quote This is obviously a joke thread. Learn to read in between the lines, people.
Lonegnr Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 15	Posted - 2013.12.20 18:18:00 - [7] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: Lonegnr wrote: Except, like you just said, you're not nerfing them; most people interested in sniper rifles adjust to bullet drop very quickly, so why would CCP waste time on this when they're already so behind on everything else? Lonegnr, my friend, you have yet to experience the greatness of negligible bullet drop! Come, I have much to teach you... All I know is bullet drop in BF means nothing to a real sniper, and in Dust, being a newer scrub, a proto can 1-shot me without needing to shoot me in the face (can take me several headshots to kill a proto hilariously enough), so....uh..../shrug? lol.
Ulysses Knapse Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm 843	Posted - 2013.12.20 18:21:00 - [8] - Quote Samael Artico wrote: This is obviously a joke thread. Learn to read in between the lines, people. Silence! You'll give me away... What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage? The pile of garbage looks nicer.
TheEnd762 SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 262	Posted - 2013.12.20 18:23:00 - [9] - Quote Samael Artico wrote: This is obviously a joke thread. Learn to read in between the lines, people. Ah, my mistake. I was under the impression jokes were meant to be funny and/or clever.
Ulysses Knapse Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm 843	Posted - 2013.12.20 18:24:00 - [10] - Quote TheEnd762 wrote: Samael Artico wrote: This is obviously a joke thread. Learn to read in between the lines, people. Ah, my mistake. I was under the impression jokes were meant to be funny and/or clever. Which is why I prefer the term "troll thread". What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage? The pile of garbage looks nicer.

Draco Cerberus BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 617	Posted - 2013.12.20 22:03:00 - [11] - Quote I'd rather just have gravity that reflects the mass of the planet we are fighting on. Wormholes have system effects, this indicates to me that assigning a varying gravity to planets would not be hard or complicated for CCP. At that point we could look at bullet drop for all weapons. Who knows, maybe its possible that a vectored bullet would vector in an arc that connects at some point in time with the ground rather than just disappearing. LogiGod earns his pips
Draco Cerberus BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 617	Posted - 2013.12.20 22:08:00 - [12] - Quote TheEnd762 wrote: This has been brought up a thousand times by various sniper-hating miscreants, and the answers are always the same: -Taking into account the sniper rifles in Dust are rail weapons, they wouldn't experience any noticeable bullet drop for well over 1000m, so until we have maps that large (not to mention scopes and the draw distance to support shooting that far) they already HAVE the proper amount of bullet drop, for all intents and purposes. -Apparently the devs have stated the game can't handle all the calculations that would be required I guess if the game can't handle the calculations it is time to build a new game engine, scrap the Unreal fail engine and start fresh, wouldn't be the first time with this game. Every patch feels like a new beta try. LogiGod earns his pips
Artificer Ghost Bojo's School of the Trades 737	Posted - 2013.12.20 22:22:00 - [13] - Quote Sniper Rifles are miniature railguns. Just in case you don't know what a railgun is: An object (The "bullet" in this case) is propelled at incredible speeds using enormous amounts of energy along 2 metal rails. Look at the barrel of the Sniper Rifle, it has a horizontal split going through it. The 2 parts of the barrel that make up this split are our rails. That much energy, and that much speed, with that little weight, would make it so it had VERY LITTLE bullet drop, if any. Example: Take a ball. Throw it at a ~medium speed. Now take the same ball, and throw it faster. It dropped MUCH less. I could give a super-long explanation, but there's just a single word you can look at: "Physics" Yup. True story. Didn't think Art knew physics, did you? I did. TL;DR, basic physics says that, at the speed the round is travelling/the amount of energy put into said round, makes it so that IF there were to be any drop, it shouldn't really come into effect until around the 600m mark. NOTICE: I didn't say NOTICEABLE bullet drop. I said ANY bullet drop. And it would drop very slowly. ~Art, CEO and Director of Educations at Bojo's School of The Trades, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
Ulysses Knapse Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm 846	Posted - 2013.12.20 23:05:00 - [14] - Quote Artificer Ghost wrote: snip The Sniper Rifle is described at shooting projectiles at "2,500m/s". I based my calculations with this in mind. As you can see, I've done my maths. What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage? The pile of garbage looks nicer.
Artificer Ghost Bojo's School of the Trades 738	Posted - 2013.12.20 23:09:00 - [15] - Quote Hm. Well, hold on. You proposed no Bullet Drop for the Forge Gun, nor the Railgun, both of which have slower travel speeds than the Sniper Rifle. If you wanted to make sense/be consistent, you'd need to add round drop to them as well. Which would make them almost not viable. Just putting that there. Yay for math though. EDIT: Reading the desc., it says "IN EXCESS of 2,000 m/s". Meaning your math is potentially incredibly off. Also, we need to take the size, shape, and weight of the round into account. We know it's 2-inches in length, but what about diameter? ~Art, CEO and Director of Educations at Bojo's School of The Trades, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
Ulysses Knapse Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm 846	Posted - 2013.12.20 23:11:00 - [16] - Quote Artificer Ghost wrote: Hm. Well, hold on. You proposed no Bullet Drop for the Forge Gun, nor the Railgun, both of which have slower travel speeds than the Sniper Rifle. If you wanted to make sense/be consistent, you'd need to add round drop to them as well. Which would make them almost not viable. Just putting that there. Yay for math though. This thread was made half-jokingly, you know. I don't really think it's important to add a feature like this except for maybe when battlefields become larger and you need more range on sniping weapons. Though to be honest, I think all railguns should be effectively hitscan. Railgun turrets and Forge Guns alike. The Forge Gun description says the projectile travels 7,000m/s which it quite clearly does not. What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage? The pile of garbage looks nicer.
Artificer Ghost Bojo's School of the Trades 738	Posted - 2013.12.20 23:14:00 - [17] - Quote Oh ok then. I probably sound more cheesed off then I actually am, but I'm just pointing out why this is (ATM) a physically impossible objective. ~Art, CEO and Director of Educations at Bojo's School of The Trades, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
Ulysses Knapse Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm 847	Posted - 2013.12.21 09:11:00 - [18] - Quote Artificer Ghost wrote: EDIT: Reading the desc., it says "IN EXCESS of 2,000 m/s". Meaning your math is potentially incredibly off. Also, we need to take the size, shape, and weight of the round into account. We know it's 2-inches in length, but what about diameter? I was lazy, so I didn't really take any of those into consideration. This is how much bullet drop would occur in a vacuum. Also, I'm fairly certain 2,500m/s for the Sniper Rifle is a thing. If not the description, I must of read it somewhere else. What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage? The pile of garbage looks nicer.
Artificer Ghost Bojo's School of the Trades 740	Posted - 2013.12.21 15:28:00 - [19] - Quote Yep, I read it directly from the description in-game. Or rather, the Dust 514 wiki (The saddest wiki of all time), that copies the description word for word. ~Art, CEO and Director of Educations at Bojo's School of The Trades, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
Ulysses Knapse Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm 850	Posted - 2013.12.21 15:35:00 - [20] - Quote Artificer Ghost wrote: Yep, I read it directly from the description in-game. Or rather, the Dust 514 wiki (The saddest wiki of all time), that copies the description word for word. Well, excessive clone reanimation can cause light memory loss. Maybe I should stop dying so often... What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage? The pile of garbage looks nicer.

fragmentedhackslash FREE AGENTS LP 24	Posted - 2013.12.21 19:07:00 - [21] - Quote How about correct hit detection put back in place! How about all proto sniper rifles being able to render and shot AND confirmed hit over 600meters... How about a sniper equipment of a spotting scope that could illuminate targets at over the horizon ranges. How about correct salvage for snipers. How about fix broken laggy city sockets. How about actually do game development on a game you are meant to be developing OUT of beta. Pain is just weakness leaving your body. Every day is a holiday. Every meal is a feast. I am hungry. Let's go eat!
Artificer Ghost Bojo's School of the Trades 747	Posted - 2013.12.21 19:14:00 - [22] - Quote Well. Those are good demands, sure. But I guess I now need to explain how salvage works. This is the one thing I thought was universally understood. :( Think of a big table. It's undecided. If you win, you and your team get access to this table, which just has a bunch of gear, and dropsuits, and weapons, etc. sitting on top of it. If you win, you get some of this RANDOMLY. Although I think there's an irony to it, because if you run vehicles, most of the time you get AV nades, swarms, or Forge Guns. Either way, it's completely random. There is no "right" salvage for snipers, there's just the salvage that you get, out of luck. ~Art, CEO and Director of Educations at Bojo's School of The Trades, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
Orion Vahid DUST University Ivy League 228	Posted - 2013.12.21 19:18:00 - [23] - Quote TheEnd762 wrote: -**** you. Snipers have already been crapped on enough. Why? because they can no longer sit on top/inside MCCs and kill everyone with Thales?
Admonishment The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo 53	Posted - 2013.12.21 19:33:00 - [24] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: Assuming Earth-like gravity, and assuming the Sniper Rifle item description is accurate, the bullet drop wouldn't even be noticeable until around 500 meters. So, why not add bullet drop? That way we can nerf Sniper Rifles without actually nerfing Sniper Rifles. Talos Vagheitan would surely endorse this idea. ......... Level 5 Proficiency in basket weaving.
TheEnd762 SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 266	Posted - 2013.12.21 22:02:00 - [25] - Quote Orion Vahid wrote: TheEnd762 wrote: -**** you. Snipers have already been crapped on enough. Why? because they can no longer sit on top/inside MCCs and kill everyone with Thales? No, you simpleton. Having resistances and damage outputs changed. Having sniper platforms WELL OUTSIDE THE REDLINE removed because gasp they couldn't be reached on foot and were out of AR range, and GOD FORBID anyone has to get in a dropship or use the FREE sniper fit that EVERYONE has. Oh, and btw, it's still possible to shoot people from on top of the MCC. I've seen it. But people who do that, or sit behind the red line, are NOT snipers. They're dicks with sniper rifles. There's a difference, they are a minority, and lumping them in with legitimate snipers is sheer ignorance.
The-Errorist Closed For Business For All Mankind 409	Posted - 2013.12.22 21:27:00 - [26] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: Assuming Earth-like gravity, and assuming the Sniper Rifle item description is accurate, the bullet drop wouldn't even be noticeable until around 500 meters. So, why not add bullet drop? That way we can nerf Sniper Rifles without actually nerfing Sniper Rifles. Talos Vagheitan would surely endorse this idea. You should check this out.
CLONE117 planetary retaliation organisation 536	Posted - 2013.12.22 21:56:00 - [27] - Quote hahahaha...thats funny because every sniper i do see is in the redzone when there r plenty of other spots to snipe one... i have never seen a guy using a thale come out of the redzone.. and since they dont render on tac net..i no longer have a good place to drop my obs.. well heres what i want to do..i want to replace the redzone camp spots with a giant wall! a giant wall that prevents sniping from a safe unreachable place. that free sniper fit every1 has? it sucks... that new derpship price we have now.... well at least im not losing to much isk now... so that little excuse is gone now since its actually cheap and affordable. and since u said all snipers that camp within and snipe from the redzone in heavy suits armor tanked proto logi suits and other things (which are also next to imposible to counter snipe)... i guess they r dicks too.. because u just called them dicks ur self.. i dont want an end to all snipers....i just want an end to all "redzone snipers". how hard can that be? next to unreachabe by derpship i could suicide run most redzone snipers effectively with my derpship if i had but 10 secs more time.. or we could shorten their reach which shouldnt effect those outside of the redzone but would surely affect those WITHIN the redzone sniping.. if the redzone snipers are a minority. then why are there so many hiding and sniping from the redzone and so few within this legitimate sniping area u speak of?
TheEnd762 SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 273	Posted - 2013.12.22 22:33:00 - [28] - Quote CLONE117 wrote: hahahaha...thats funny because every sniper i do see is in the redzone when there r plenty of other spots to snipe one... Quote: or we could shorten their reach which shouldnt effect those outside of the redzone but would surely affect those WITHIN the redzone sniping.. if the redzone snipers are a minority. then why are there so many hiding and sniping from the redzone and so few within this legitimate sniping area u speak of? The thing is, there's NOT "plenty" of spots to snipe from, because whiny turds cried about getting sniped from on top of towers and high platforms. So those areas were removed, inclines were changed so they couldn't be stood upon, and others were made instant-death surfaces. Shortening sniper's reach most certainly would affect legit snipers who operate outside of the redzone. Despite CCP's campaign to screw snipers over, there are still a few spots we can properly operate from outside the redline, and I consistently make kills from those spots at ranges +400m. Quote: well heres what i want to do..i want to replace the redzone camp spots with a giant wall! a giant wall that prevents sniping from a safe unreachable place. Your wall idea is stupid, ignorant, and wouldn't work. If it surrounded the entire red zone, the only way out would be dropship, and turret installations would be useless. People also wouldn't be able to call in tanks or LAVs until they were outside of it. If there WAS a space/door big enough to get out of, then people would just shoot from there, or around the corner/behind the hill close to there. Quote: i have never seen a guy using a thale come out of the redzone.. Because they don't drop often enough to risk it. The last time I brought out one of my Thales was to counter-snipe a guy who was shooting INTO my redline, and even when I did, I picked him off from behind the supply depot and put it away immediately. Quote: that free sniper fit every1 has? it sucks... So? It still works, and it's free. You want something better, skill into sniper rifles and spend a little more. Otherwise, stop complaining. You don't see me whining about not being able to kill someone using a proto AR with a militia AR before they can kill me.
TheEnd762 SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 273	Posted - 2013.12.22 22:34:00 - [29] - Quote Quote: that new derpship price we have now.... well at least im not losing to much isk now... so that little excuse is gone now since its actually cheap and affordable. If you lose a dropship going after a sniper, then you suck. The most someone with a sniper rifle can do to someone in a dropship (aside from the very rare Commando sniper) is lob AV grenades at you or hit you with a flaylock. Quote: and since u said all snipers that camp within and snipe from the redzone in heavy suits armor tanked proto logi suits and other things (which are also next to imposible to counter snipe)... i guess they r dicks too.. because u just called them dicks ur self.. I can't understand what you were trying to say with this punctuation-less run-on "sentence". Quote: i dont want an end to all snipers....i just want an end to all "redzone snipers". how hard can that be? I'd love that too, because it would mean idiots couldn't lump them in with ACTUAL snipers when they cry anymore.
CLONE117 planetary retaliation organisation 537	Posted - 2013.12.22 22:55:00 - [30] - Quote awww... some1 actually bothered to quote and respond to everything i said..... even if most of it was stupid negative feedback as i expected as much... if redzones were replaced with an underground base or something that can be used to fall back to. snipers lose their own personal safe safe redzones. those dropships that i lose majority of the time when going after snipers? how stupid r u!!!!!! of course im going to lose it when suicide running a damn redzone sniper position!!!!! what do u think im gonna do.. safely land and use up all my time and recall it just to have 0 secs left to die without getting the sniper?!?! im going to jump out and not bother landing it. and hopefully i drop out close enough to that annoying redzone sniper to where i can maul him to death with what ever i had equipped. the problem with thales though is that they are so far back inside the redzone is that ud barely have enough time just to get out and kill a scout suit thats standing still. and majority of snipers i come across in the redzone DONT wear a scout suit.. sure i did put enough sp to unlock a std tac sniper for my counter sniping but its barely usable just because they r all in tanked out heavy suits or some other suit with lots of armor or shields. or both.... my main option im left with is suicide running now... and when most r so deep within the redzone its next to impossible to even d that.. u no the places ive sniped from?.. ive sniped from places that were on the ground.. not from extremely high assed platforms. ive sniped from that ground based level. and actually have done pretty well from that level as well.. u call sniping what i and possibly alot of others would call "being scared". who needs and extremely high tower? we were all mad and wanted those places nerfed for the simple fact that they were being used to camp objectives from across the map.. a person would come to an objective and start hacking it then suddenly they die to a sniper from the other side of the map or on an extremely high up nearby tower. these places probably wouldnt have been nerfed in the first place too if there werent so many uplinks on many of those places that were sniped from anyways.



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