The problem isn't the damage mods. Average weapon DPS exceeds average dropsuit base HP. There's a little more to the equation like the proficiency skill, guns not having enough kick/dispersion, underpowered modules and other stuff, but the core issue is that the game has been balanced around bad hit detection. Hit detection got fixed and all the little fixes that were implemented to compensate need to be rescinded.

Removing Sharpshooter skills and change the effect of Proficiency skills to do something different, look at the Shotgun Proficiency, is a great place to start.

Dunce, I thought med-slots were Equipment? Based on the symbols that showed when I was fitting my ship, it looked like mid-slots were equipment, what with the Warp Distruptors, and Micro warp-drives, Afterburners and whatnot.

Either way, I see that Damage Mods aren't the problem, and I know the weapons are, but nerfing damage mods a little bit would still be a step in the right direction. Maybe my proposition was a bit much? What's your guy's suggestions for numbers? Because from what Knapse is telling me, the HP modules, on paper, are better than Damage Mods. However, in-game, I wont even bother fitting a Complex Shield Extender, even if it brings my eHP over that of a heavy, because if I fit a Damage Mod instead, I'll out-DPS a Proto-Heavy, even in CQC.

2% // 5% // 8%?

Ghost, my friend, you seem to be mistaken about some things.

Damage Modifiers are just that. Modifiers. They aren't the problem, they just exemplify the problem. 10% increased damage? That's a nice boost, but you'll have to sacrifice a module slot that could be used to give +66 Shields, which is approximately 20% increased HP for a medium-frame dropsuit. If you replace the Complex Damage Modifier's +10% with a +3% it will become totally worthless.

See? 10% versus 20%. The tanking module is superior from a statistical perspective. So clearly, the problem lies elsewhere, primarily with the fact that weapon DPS is ridiculously high when compared to dropsuit HP.

True on paper but not in the game. shields are useless. you still got killed for the same time. that's why I stop equipping shields and do only dmg mods. anyway you are killed in less than a second, specially with the new Combat rifle.

What is 66 shield? one and half bullet from the AR where it is shooting 12.5 bulets in a second.

Why to chose 66 shielld when with 2 dmg mods on an adv suite I will do 580 DMG per second with GEK AR???? Or a lot more with combat rifle.

So clearly, the problem lies elsewhere, primarily with the fact that weapon DPS is ridiculously high when compared to dropsuit HP.

You're kidding, right? Only 1-3% Damage Modifiers? That's... there's no logic in that! Imagine if tanking modules were nerfed so that they were only 30% as effective as they are now. That would be simply outrageous!

And no, damage modifiers aren't the problem here, they just exemplify the problem.

There is a big logic in that. It will make people hink to go for dmg or shields, or scan or whatever.

defined by the fact that it doesnt matter if I fit basic or complex plates.

Don't fix what isn't broken. Please explain to me why a lower TTK is "wrong".

Don't fix what isn't broken. Please explain to me why a lower TTK is "wrong".

Alright. This is a good one, so pull up your chairs, get some popcorn, and listen. First, though, I'd like this to be a constructive and informative discussion. If you need to, make it look like you're trying to hard. If you have a strong opinion, try to express it as I am now: Calmly. I want no "CAPS LOL" in here, or "0mg gost u suk kil urself" either. If you're going to post, please at least try to make it readable. :(

Now that that's out of the way: Time To Kill (TTK), is, as we all know, at an all time low. Since Uprising 1.2 (Correct me if I'm wrong), minor (And major) fixes to the game have decreased the amount of time it takes to kill someone, to the point where it's near nothing. Even when stacking as much HP as I can, it takes me less than 10 seconds to kill or be killed. That's not a lot of time, compared to what we were at in Chromosome.

Valid statement. It's a truth that, in Chromosome, the hit detection, bunny hopping, and controls were a large part of the issue. HOWEVER, we've mostly sorted that out, with the following changes:
-Jumping two times in a row (Without at least a couple seconds of pause) causes the stamina bar to drain more in the second jump, reducing it to nothing in 3 jumps.
-Aim Assist and Controls have been completely re-vamped since Uprising 1.2
-Hit Detection is steadily improving, becoming infinitely better than Chromosome

Of course, with these changes (Especially with Aim Assist and Hit Detection changes), some playstyles and classes have been completely wiped out of the game. Running a Speed-Tanking scout is no longer valid, unless you have a year+ of experience with the suit.

I personally think, that the first thing to be looked at, is Damage Mods. Right now, they provide too much of a bonus, let's face it. In my opinion, they should provide a MINIMAL bonus. Enough to give you an advantage, but not enough to make you the clear-cut winner. My proposal: 1-2%, or anything in between (1.50% for example). Not much, I know, but note that the small amount of extra damage will be adding up with each shot. Soon, with a weapon like the A-CBR, in about 42 shots, you've done quite a bit of extra damage. With single-shot weapons, it'll still be viable, because normally the single-shot weapons deal INSANE amounts of damage per shot anyways, making the damage bonus even bigger.

STD/MLT Damage Mod: 1% // ADV: 2% // PRO: 3%. Because as someone who used to run ONLY MLT damage mods, 3% damage increase is good no matter what weapon you're using.

And remember: The job here isn't to balance damage mods, so brick tanking can also be 100% viable. The job is to increase TTK. Less damage = More TTK. Don't nerf weapons just yet, nerf modules. Except HP mods. Because those are important in TTK. :P

ONLY Assault Rifles? I say all rifles.

No, not all the rifles, all the Assault Rifles. Especially Rail Rifles and Combat Rifles.

To be honest, I think TTK is at a good place for the most part.

The main exceptions are:
-Assault Rifles
-Cooked Grenades
-Vehicles
-Shotguns and Nova Knives (arguably)

Other than those, the TTK is pretty solid as is.

Shotguns are supposed to be high DPS, high risk, high reward. Sprinting while charging knives needs to be a thing along with making your default melee attack a knife swipe when equipped with them. Mainly short TTK gives rifles too much of an advantage and devalues strafing and sidearms. Shields are pretty crippled as well.

I've been mowing down people with my combat rifle and it just doesn't feel right. It's very bland and twitch, which scares me.

Shotguns and Nova Knives do need to be toned down. Compared to Assault Rifles, they're pretty much fine, but compared to the other weapons they're a bit quick on the kill, even if you do consider their disadvantages.

You have to be close enough to spit on someone with a shotgun

nova knives are only useful against someone standing still. WTF are you talking about?

Don't fix what isn't broken. Please explain to me why a lower TTK is "wrong".

The problem isn't the damage mods. Average weapon DPS exceeds average dropsuit base HP. There's a little more to the equation like the proficiency skill, guns not having enough kick/dispersion, underpowered modules and other stuff, but the core issue is that the game has been balanced around bad hit detection. Hit detection got fixed and all the little fixes that were implemented to compensate need to be rescinded.

Yep, but we're not talking about range, we're talking about TTK.


1. Oh, we're including borderline bugs in our balance equation?
2. I once got one-shotted by a Nova Knifer in my tanky fit. And I was moving, by the way.

You're ignoring the fact that they're both alpha damage weapons. Without them, everyone would just run around with rifles, only worrying about other rifles. You need that one little bastard that can sneak up on you and down you in one hit when you're not paying attention.

You're ignoring the fact that they're both alpha damage weapons. Without them, everyone would just run around with rifles, only worrying about other rifles. You need that one little bastard that can sneak up on you and down you in one hit when you're not paying attention.

Yes, they are both alpha damage weapons, but you should still have some time to react.

Alright. This is a good one, so pull up your chairs, get some popcorn, and listen. First, though, I'd like this to be a constructive and informative discussion. If you need to, make it look like you're trying to hard. If you have a strong opinion, try to express it as I am now: Calmly. I want no "CAPS LOL" in here, or "0mg gost u suk kil urself" either. If you're going to post, please at least try to make it readable. :(

Now that that's out of the way: Time To Kill (TTK), is, as we all know, at an all time low. Since Uprising 1.2 (Correct me if I'm wrong), minor (And major) fixes to the game have decreased the amount of time it takes to kill someone, to the point where it's near nothing. Even when stacking as much HP as I can, it takes me less than 10 seconds to kill or be killed. That's not a lot of time, compared to what we were at in Chromosome.

Valid statement. It's a truth that, in Chromosome, the hit detection, bunny hopping, and controls were a large part of the issue. HOWEVER, we've mostly sorted that out, with the following changes:
-Jumping two times in a row (Without at least a couple seconds of pause) causes the stamina bar to drain more in the second jump, reducing it to nothing in 3 jumps.
-Aim Assist and Controls have been completely re-vamped since Uprising 1.2
-Hit Detection is steadily improving, becoming infinitely better than Chromosome

Of course, with these changes (Especially with Aim Assist and Hit Detection changes), some playstyles and classes have been completely wiped out of the game. Running a Speed-Tanking scout is no longer valid, unless you have a year+ of experience with the suit.

I personally think, that the first thing to be looked at, is Damage Mods. Right now, they provide too much of a bonus, let's face it. In my opinion, they should provide a MINIMAL bonus. Enough to give you an advantage, but not enough to make you the clear-cut winner. My proposal: 1-2%, or anything in between (1.50% for example). Not much, I know, but note that the small amount of extra damage will be adding up with each shot. Soon, with a weapon like the A-CBR, in about 42 shots, you've done quite a bit of extra damage. With single-shot weapons, it'll still be viable, because normally the single-shot weapons deal INSANE amounts of damage per shot anyways, making the damage bonus even bigger.

STD/MLT Damage Mod: 1% // ADV: 2% // PRO: 3%. Because as someone who used to run ONLY MLT damage mods, 3% damage increase is good no matter what weapon you're using.

And remember: The job here isn't to balance damage mods, so brick tanking can also be 100% viable. The job is to increase TTK. Less damage = More TTK. Don't nerf weapons just yet, nerf modules. Except HP mods. Because those are important in TTK. :P

Yes, they are both alpha damage weapons, but you should still have some time to react.

Alpha damage is the definition of not giving you time to react.

Nova Knives are not pure alpha damage weapons.