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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
634
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Posted - 2013.12.14 05:48:00 -
[1] - Quote
they have no place in this game as a main weapon. they are completely situational and not general purpose like every other weapon in the game. there will always be infantry, but there are not always vehicles and as they are now they are barely useful against their main target.
making them equipment shifts the responsibility of taking out tanks to the team and not to individuals. with regards to multiple people working as a team this would be far more effective and allow for teams to team up on a tank easier.
it is no different than carrying RE, hives,uplinks etc, as they are equipment they would deplete and need restocking at a resupply
the equipment versions could be single clip only containing a limited amount of volleys, 3B/4A/5P this should make them similar to how current equipment works. the values could then be rebalanced as damage mods would no longer be a factor in balance.this would allow more versatility in anti vehicle fits as you could still solo as you could fit a logi suit full off them or a squad could assess the need and carry enough with them that if they needed to they could deter a tank or kill it but at the cost of diminished versatility throughout the squad. at the moment that diminished versatility is pushed onto 1 player while they are bearing the responsibility of av. as equipment this allows you to fit some element of survivability into your suit if you do encounter ground troops and shifts costs and responsibility onto the squad and team for av support.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
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Text Grant
Death Firm.
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
260
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Posted - 2013.12.14 07:01:00 -
[2] - Quote
I said this well before the patch and was told that I had no idea what the patch would bring... Well i still agree |
Justin Tymes
Dem Durrty Boyz
Renegade Alliance
543
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Posted - 2013.12.14 07:19:00 -
[3] - Quote
Few, if any, competitive players are using swarms. They are a mediocre AV option that leaves you defenseless against Infantry. Making them EQ would, as you said, make killing tanks a team effort, as tankers love to preach. It would help balance Ambush immensely; without Supply Depots, most Infantry would still be able to repel tanks while still taking down other Infantry units. You also don't have to fear spawning without being able to deal with tanks without losing a clone. |
Ulysses Knapse
duna corp
727
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Posted - 2013.12.14 08:45:00 -
[4] - Quote
Why not just buff Swarm Launchers? 
I vote for giving it the ability to lock-on to infantry... 
Humanity is the personification of change.
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Stephen Seneca
State Patriots
Templis Dragonaors
13
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Posted - 2013.12.14 10:23:00 -
[5] - Quote
I think a toggle on the swarm would be best, if there could be such a thing. Click a button and it goes from AV locked on and guided to an unguided anti infantry/area denial weapon.
Edit!!! Pressing the ads/zoom button would initiate lock ons and you could just fire at will with the normal fire button.
For the State!
Keep your stick on the ice and get the pucks in deep, eh.
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Hecarim Van Hohen
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
356
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Posted - 2013.12.14 14:52:00 -
[6] - Quote
Ulysses Knapse wrote:Why not just buff Swarm Launchers? ]
When I first saw the SL nerfs I immediately thought that it was too much to nerf both range and damage.
This idea gets you a shiny new +1
Cheer up a bit will you
(n+ëGùòpâ«Gùò)n+ë:n+Ñn+ƒG£º:n+Ñn+ƒG£º
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deepfried salad gilliam
Sanguine Knights
279
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Posted - 2013.12.14 15:41:00 -
[7] - Quote
Stephen Seneca wrote:I think a toggle on the swarm would be best, if there could be such a thing. Click a button and it goes from AV locked on and guided to an unguided anti infantry/area denial weapon.
Edit!!! Pressing the ads/zoom button would initiate lock ons and you could just fire at will with the normal fire button.
It was originally free fire,theirs a reason it changed
"May God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ give you grace and peace" - Second Corinthians chapter one verse two.
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Alena Ventrallis
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
287
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Posted - 2013.12.14 15:53:00 -
[8] - Quote
MAke an AT-4 type weapon for equipment.
Single shot, then disposed of
Dumb fire, like the plasma cannon
AT-4 rocket moves at 950 feet per second, about 200m per second and change. so this rocket will move really fast.
Can carry 2
Does significant damage (1500 thermal damage, basically a launched remote explosive with thermal damage profile)
That'd give infantry something quick to get tanks without hurting their AV
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
638
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Posted - 2013.12.14 16:06:00 -
[9] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:MAke an AT-4 type weapon for equipment.
Single shot, then disposed of
Dumb fire, like the plasma cannon
AT-4 rocket moves at 950 feet per second, about 200m per second and change. so this rocket will move really fast.
Can carry 2
Does significant damage (1500 thermal damage, basically a launched remote explosive with thermal damage profile)
That'd give infantry something quick to get tanks without hurting their AV
i suggested something like this in another post... called it the BREACH SWARM LAUNCHER.
all the power of a normal swarmer but in a single rocket with pinpoint accuracy. single shot like you say and unguided is good and allows for you to react to a situation and not light yourself up like a christmas tree every time you attempt a shot . makes the game a little more realistic. they should give them a smoke trail so when used enemy can see where it came from if they are looking. with this suggestion it doesn't matter as you will already be on the move. current swarms don't allow you to fight and move and repeat
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
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J-Lewis
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
328
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Posted - 2013.12.14 16:59:00 -
[10] - Quote
Light AV in general should be equipment. Grenades remain grenades, but swarms and plasma cannons should go in equipment.
Of course, they should not have more than one clips worth of spare ammo, and thus be reliant on hives. |
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N1ck Comeau
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
1625
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Posted - 2013.12.14 17:06:00 -
[11] - Quote
i'd run swarms if they were an equipment
Minmatar Assault.
Double SMG user. 200 bullets of hellfire.
I use speed and skill to win fights.
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
638
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Posted - 2013.12.14 17:10:00 -
[12] - Quote
J-Lewis wrote:Light AV in general should be equipment. Grenades remain grenades, but swarms and plasma cannons should go in equipment.
Of course, they should not have more than one clips worth of spare ammo, and thus be reliant on hives.
plasma is not technically an av weapon. its more general purpose because it can be used against anything same as a forgue gun. swarms and av grenades are singular purpose so should not be general use like all other weapons
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
638
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Posted - 2013.12.14 17:12:00 -
[13] - Quote
J-Lewis wrote:Light AV in general should be equipment. Grenades remain grenades, but swarms and plasma cannons should go in equipment.
Of course, they should not have more than one clips worth of spare ammo, and thus be reliant on hives.
plasma is not technically an av weapon. its more general purpose because it can be used against anything same as a forgue gun. swarms and av grenades are singular purpose so should not be general use like all other weapons.
generally speaking RE should not be in equipment slot because it is a break off the grenade skill tree and is general purpose as it will kill anything. it should be in the grenade slot
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
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J-Lewis
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
328
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Posted - 2013.12.14 19:27:00 -
[14] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:J-Lewis wrote:Light AV in general should be equipment. Grenades remain grenades, but swarms and plasma cannons should go in equipment.
Of course, they should not have more than one clips worth of spare ammo, and thus be reliant on hives. plasma is not technically an av weapon. its more general purpose because it can be used against anything same as a forgue gun. swarms and av grenades are singular purpose so should not be general use like all other weapons
Technically it is. Practically it is not. |
lee corwood
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
33
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Posted - 2013.12.14 20:30:00 -
[15] - Quote
As a proto swarmer, I felt they were a bit over powered pre 1.7. Now, I completely agree that they should be equipment. With the introduction of even farther reaching rifles against a completely vulnerable AVer who's rockets can be outrun by the tank, make this into equipment so we can still defend ourselves from general infantry.
Minmatar Logisis | Heavy lover. Come get some badass Band-Aids from this chick
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
644
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Posted - 2013.12.14 20:31:00 -
[16] - Quote
J-Lewis wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:J-Lewis wrote:Light AV in general should be equipment. Grenades remain grenades, but swarms and plasma cannons should go in equipment.
Of course, they should not have more than one clips worth of spare ammo, and thus be reliant on hives. plasma is not technically an av weapon. its more general purpose because it can be used against anything same as a forgue gun. swarms and av grenades are singular purpose so should not be general use like all other weapons Technically it is. Practically it is not.
it is not purely anti vehicle therefore it is not anti vehicle. it is general purpose. mass assault rifle use on an lav can kill it but that doesn't make it an av weapon. the same applies to the plasma cannon. it is used for both killing infantry and vehicles the same as the forgue gun which is also general purpose because that also does both. the fact swarms/av grenades and proximity grenades can only kill vehicles makes them purely av and situational items not required as main weapons.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
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J-Lewis
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
328
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Posted - 2013.12.14 21:10:00 -
[17] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:J-Lewis wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:J-Lewis wrote:Light AV in general should be equipment. Grenades remain grenades, but swarms and plasma cannons should go in equipment.
Of course, they should not have more than one clips worth of spare ammo, and thus be reliant on hives. plasma is not technically an av weapon. its more general purpose because it can be used against anything same as a forgue gun. swarms and av grenades are singular purpose so should not be general use like all other weapons Technically it is. Practically it is not. it is not purely anti vehicle therefore it is not anti vehicle. it is general purpose. mass assault rifle use on an lav can kill it but that doesn't make it an av weapon. the same applies to the plasma cannon. it is used for both killing infantry and vehicles the same as the forgue gun which is also general purpose because that also does both. the fact swarms/av grenades and proximity mines can only kill vehicles makes them purely av and situational items not required as main weapons so should be used as equipment. all equipment is used dependant on factors during the fight. 1 being can i shoot back at pursuing infantry. with the plasma cannon you can. with the swarm you can't. this makes plasma cannons still viable to carry with you as a main weapon where as swarms can never be used as a main weapon hence the suggestion
So by that logic RPGs are not weapons designed to defeat vehicles and should therefore be wielded instead of assault rifles, and not in addition of.
That's suicidal. |
Ulysses Knapse
duna corp
734
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Posted - 2013.12.14 21:14:00 -
[18] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:it is not purely anti vehicle therefore it is not anti vehicle. it is general purpose
It was originally meant for Anti-Vehicle use. It didn't work out like that, but that's what CCP had in mind.
Humanity is the personification of change.
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
644
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Posted - 2013.12.14 21:26:00 -
[19] - Quote
J-Lewis wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:J-Lewis wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:J-Lewis wrote:Light AV in general should be equipment. Grenades remain grenades, but swarms and plasma cannons should go in equipment.
Of course, they should not have more than one clips worth of spare ammo, and thus be reliant on hives. plasma is not technically an av weapon. its more general purpose because it can be used against anything same as a forgue gun. swarms and av grenades are singular purpose so should not be general use like all other weapons Technically it is. Practically it is not. it is not purely anti vehicle therefore it is not anti vehicle. it is general purpose. mass assault rifle use on an lav can kill it but that doesn't make it an av weapon. the same applies to the plasma cannon. it is used for both killing infantry and vehicles the same as the forgue gun which is also general purpose because that also does both. the fact swarms/av grenades and proximity mines can only kill vehicles makes them purely av and situational items not required as main weapons so should be used as equipment. all equipment is used dependant on factors during the fight. 1 being can i shoot back at pursuing infantry. with the plasma cannon you can. with the swarm you can't. this makes plasma cannons still viable to carry with you as a main weapon where as swarms can never be used as a main weapon hence the suggestion So by that logic RPGs are not weapons designed to defeat vehicles and should therefore be wielded instead of assault rifles, and not in addition of. That's suicidal.
your missing the point. i can take that rpg and fire it at a person and kill them. what i cannot do is get a lock on weapon designed to lock onto vehicles to kill a person. this is the issue with av weapons at the moment..
also to answer the question. yes a plasma cannon is very similar to an rpg. it fires slowly and has a dropoff on it. its single fire and can be fired at anything. do you see anyone in war on the news etc carrying an rpg and another weapon. they dont because they don't need to because they can fire these rpgs at buildings, people on the ground and anything else they fancy killing exactly like the plasma cannon.
for lock on weapons it is completely different as these weapons can only be fired against vehicles. so its only role is av.
we are getting off topic here. swarms are the ones currently with an issue and this is what the topic is about so this is only what im trying to address.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
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Mahal Daj
Mahal Tactical Enterprises
1
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Posted - 2013.12.14 22:08:00 -
[20] - Quote
Currently, the 'Vehicle' vs 'AV' vs 'Infantry' game of paper-rock-scissors is too much. One can easily trump the other. I am of the opinion that as a bonus to our heavy bros, they should get an HP boost even beyond what they have now, at the cost of being lock-able by swarm launchers. This would insert a new type of combat into the game (AV vs Heavy Infantry) and allow two different specialties to benefit (Heavies are too squishy, AV is too situational). With this in place, to counter a heavy, an AV user with a swarm launcher would be an asset to an anti-infantry squad. The heavies already have an AV slant with the forge gun, so there is an element of symmetry in place there that already exists.
tryin heavy bros |
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J-Lewis
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
328
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Posted - 2013.12.14 22:39:00 -
[21] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:
your missing the point. i can take that rpg and fire it at a person and kill them. what i cannot do is get a lock on weapon designed to lock onto vehicles to kill a person. this is the issue with av weapons at the moment..
also to answer the question. yes a plasma cannon is very similar to an rpg. it fires slowly and has a dropoff on it. its single fire and can be fired at anything. do you see anyone in war on the news etc carrying an rpg and another weapon. they dont because they don't need to because they can fire these rpgs at buildings, people on the ground and anything else they fancy killing exactly like the plasma cannon.
for lock on weapons it is completely different as these weapons can only be fired against vehicles. so its only role is av.
we are getting off topic here. swarms are the ones currently with an issue and this is what the topic is about so this is only what im trying to address.
The underlined is incorrect. All modern infantry carry a standard issue assault rifle. You would be correct in the case of the battle of Berlin, where the German forces issued their soldiers with just the AT rockets.
Pictured is a Finnish fire team.
The third infantryman from the right is equipped with an APILAS RPG and a RK62 standard issue rifle.
I agree that Swarms should be equipment. But then so should all light anti vehicle ordnance based weaponry, including the Plasma Cannon.
I'll leave it at that.
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
645
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Posted - 2013.12.14 22:54:00 -
[22] - Quote
J-Lewis wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:
your missing the point. i can take that rpg and fire it at a person and kill them. what i cannot do is get a lock on weapon designed to lock onto vehicles to kill a person. this is the issue with av weapons at the moment..
also to answer the question. yes a plasma cannon is very similar to an rpg. it fires slowly and has a dropoff on it. its single fire and can be fired at anything. do you see anyone in war on the news etc carrying an rpg and another weapon. they dont because they don't need to because they can fire these rpgs at buildings, people on the ground and anything else they fancy killing exactly like the plasma cannon.
for lock on weapons it is completely different as these weapons can only be fired against vehicles. so its only role is av.
we are getting off topic here. swarms are the ones currently with an issue and this is what the topic is about so this is only what im trying to address.
The underlined is incorrect. All modern infantry carry a standard issue assault rifle. You would be correct in the case of the battle of Berlin, where the German forces issued their soldiers with just the AT rockets. Pictured is a Finnish fire team.The third infantryman from the right is equipped with an APILAS RPG and a RK62 standard issue rifle. I agree that Swarms should be equipment. But then so should all light anti vehicle ordnance based weaponry, including the Plasma Cannon. I'll leave it at that.
so the forge should be made equipment then? the plasma cannon has far more in common with the forge guns ability to kill anything than it does with the swarm launchers av ability.. what im getting at is that the plasma cannon can be used to kill anything weather there are tanks about or not. it may have meant to be an anti tank weapon but its primary use in dust now is AP. its an anti anything weapon as it is not restricted to vehicles. to make it equipment forces those who use it as a main weapon to have to change to something else as now that weapon is too limited as equipment.when it comes to something like the swarm launcher its only use is av which leaves no use for anything else.
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