DUST Search - 659 LP Payout at level 10 standing? What?

Alldin Kan wrote:

Marston VC wrote:

Whats up with that CCP? So hypothetically I play 200 wins for one faction to get level 10 standings, and im only going to make twice as much as someone who plays 3 matches? How does Risk vs Reward pan out in this one? I might as well get level 4 on all four factions and just leave it at that. This adds to the fact that no matter how good or bad you do in a match, your going to get the same reward as everyone else. The top guy in match is going to make the same LP as the bottom guy whos sniping off in the redline somewhere.

This is a serious issue CCP. Faction Warfare is going to change from being a super competitive game mode, to pretty much the same thing as pub matches except you don't get Isk...... Whats the point of that???

Look, I realize you guys probably don't want to devalue LP buy having huge rewards at level 10, but theres better ways to incentivize getting to level 10 that wouldn't effect it that much at all. For example, raising the base LP at level 10 to 2,500 would be, in my opinion, completely worth it. At level 10 you've proven your loyalty to the faction, and earning 2,500 instead of 659 would be a more then acceptable reward. OR you could do it so that at level 5 players start to get payed isk.

lvl 5: 20% isk payout (in comparison to a normal pub match)
lvl 6: 40%
lvl 7: 60%
lvl 8: 80%
lvl 9: 100%
lvl 10: 120%

This would give incentive aside from the very limited amount of specialty items in the store to play FW. Right now the amount of isk you lose in the attempt to gain LP just isn't worth it. So either something changes on the reward end of FW, or CCP is going to start seeing a lot of people forget about FW.

OR OPTION C: Just add PVE to the game and everyone will stop complaining....... Your move CCP Straight

Is the 659 LP gain legit?

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Marston VC SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1326	Posted - 2013.12.13 18:14:00 - [1] - Quote Whats up with that CCP? So hypothetically I play 200 wins for one faction to get level 10 standings, and im only going to make twice as much as someone who plays 3 matches? How does Risk vs Reward pan out in this one? I might as well get level 4 on all four factions and just leave it at that. This adds to the fact that no matter how good or bad you do in a match, your going to get the same reward as everyone else. The top guy in match is going to make the same LP as the bottom guy whos sniping off in the redline somewhere. This is a serious issue CCP. Faction Warfare is going to change from being a super competitive game mode, to pretty much the same thing as pub matches except you don't get Isk...... Whats the point of that??? Look, I realize you guys probably don't want to devalue LP buy having huge rewards at level 10, but theres better ways to incentivize getting to level 10 that wouldn't effect it that much at all. For example, raising the base LP at level 10 to 2,500 would be, in my opinion, completely worth it. At level 10 you've proven your loyalty to the faction, and earning 2,500 instead of 659 would be a more then acceptable reward. OR you could do it so that at level 5 players start to get payed isk. lvl 5: 20% isk payout (in comparison to a normal pub match) lvl 6: 40% lvl 7: 60% lvl 8: 80% lvl 9: 100% lvl 10: 120% This would give incentive aside from the very limited amount of specialty items in the store to play FW. Right now the amount of isk you lose in the attempt to gain LP just isn't worth it. So either something changes on the reward end of FW, or CCP is going to start seeing a lot of people forget about FW. OR OPTION C: Just add PVE to the game and everyone will stop complaining....... Your move CCP Marston VC, STB Director
Denidil Taureran Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 68	Posted - 2013.12.13 18:16:00 - [2] - Quote I support this message
kayn TARON SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 27	Posted - 2013.12.13 18:20:00 - [3] - Quote Agreed they have to do something, or there is no point in doing Factional any longer. I for one won't touch them any longer until they make it worth the massive isk sink. Dust is marketed as an FPS/MMO. Can you name me one MMO that does not have a functional online friends list or PVE? lol
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1203	Posted - 2013.12.13 18:22:00 - [4] - Quote Well FW does make for a good ISK sink which is necessary to combat inflation in the market. However the LP rewards are not conducive to a good risk/reward ratio. In addition the ability to "produce" LP items supports player to player trading which is healthy and necessary for the economy. This is of course assuming we have a player market... ADS Reports - Defining Racial Themes
Monty Mole Clone Shiv M 86	Posted - 2013.12.13 18:22:00 - [5] - Quote isnt the isk sink the point to stop you getting a shed load of better stuff very cheap
Marston VC SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1329	Posted - 2013.12.13 18:44:00 - [6] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Well FW does make for a good ISK sink which is necessary to combat inflation in the market. However the LP rewards are not conducive to a good risk/reward ratio. In addition the ability to "produce" LP items supports player to player trading which is healthy and necessary for the economy. This is of course assuming we have a player market... Yes it would be good for a player market but the thing about that is that the gear in these stores aren't exactly hard to get. The scarcity isn't there to really warrant grinding all the way up to level 10. Scarcity in this case means the availability of the FW items. All these items are accessible as soon as you get into the game, the only difference is that you have to play 1 or 2 matches to be able to purchase them. This means that the amount of isk people would be willing to pay for these FW items isn't going to be as high as it probably should be. For comparison...... I just made two standard assault suits. One is made almost entirely of FW gallente gear, while the other is made entirely of gallente isk purchased gear. The FW suit costs 10k isk and 175 LP per fit. The isk gear costs 25k isk per fit. So at first glance you would say "well the FW gear costs half as much isk so clearly that's a good deal" But when you consider the LP cost of the gear its very different. So lets assume that if your playing FW isk isn't much of an issue, per match at level 10 you'll be making 659 LP per win. 659/175 = 3.76. At level 10 standings you'll be making enough LP to buy about 4 STANDARD level fittings. Now the average isk payout in an ambush is between 180,000 and 200,000 isk. 180,000/25,000=7.2 So what we have here is a game mode that yields you almost twice as much value in potentially earned suits and takes half as much time to complete. (and were not talking about FW......) Do you see the problem here? Its just not worth running FW at all..... The only reason anyone would want to run it is to get early access to some stuff they might not otherwise have unlocked yet. OR to make use of one of the 10 specialty items in the LP store...... (which you can get yourself by just winning one FW match anyway). Basically the problem here is that LP, even if your earning it at a level 10 rate, is STILL less valuable then isk. Therefore creating zero reason to have any sort of loyalty towards any faction. People might as well just get level 4 on all four factions and that way they can just buy whatever specialty items they find themselves needing whenever they want. Now if the specialty items were only available at certain levels, THEN, maybe it would be worth grinding up. OR if the rewards actually got significantly better, THEN it would be worth grinding up. But as it stands right now, FW is just a huge isk sink, ACCEPT theres no reasonable levels of incentive that would justify throwing your isk into it. Marston VC, STB Director
mollerz Minja Scouts 1304	Posted - 2013.12.13 18:50:00 - [7] - Quote For me, FW has been a boon. I was so bored of this game. Regardless of pay out, at least there tends to be a bit more tactics. And the FW aspect puts a lot more strategy on the table. I have been having fun, for once, being a logi bro. I knew that sever BPO would come in handy some day. I agree the payouts need to be adjusted. I feel like the pay outs are far too small, and the prices way too low. small payouts and low prices is the hallmark of a gimped economy. Are we cheap sluts or what? My proto skilled merc wouldn't puts boots on the ground for less than 1.5 mil and up. But CCP thinks we are all slave wagers. #shittycoding
Alldin Kan Imperfects Negative-Feedback 838	Posted - 2013.12.13 18:57:00 - [8] - Quote Marston VC wrote: Whats up with that CCP? So hypothetically I play 200 wins for one faction to get level 10 standings, and im only going to make twice as much as someone who plays 3 matches? How does Risk vs Reward pan out in this one? I might as well get level 4 on all four factions and just leave it at that. This adds to the fact that no matter how good or bad you do in a match, your going to get the same reward as everyone else. The top guy in match is going to make the same LP as the bottom guy whos sniping off in the redline somewhere. This is a serious issue CCP. Faction Warfare is going to change from being a super competitive game mode, to pretty much the same thing as pub matches except you don't get Isk...... Whats the point of that??? Look, I realize you guys probably don't want to devalue LP buy having huge rewards at level 10, but theres better ways to incentivize getting to level 10 that wouldn't effect it that much at all. For example, raising the base LP at level 10 to 2,500 would be, in my opinion, completely worth it. At level 10 you've proven your loyalty to the faction, and earning 2,500 instead of 659 would be a more then acceptable reward. OR you could do it so that at level 5 players start to get payed isk. lvl 5: 20% isk payout (in comparison to a normal pub match) lvl 6: 40% lvl 7: 60% lvl 8: 80% lvl 9: 100% lvl 10: 120% This would give incentive aside from the very limited amount of specialty items in the store to play FW. Right now the amount of isk you lose in the attempt to gain LP just isn't worth it. So either something changes on the reward end of FW, or CCP is going to start seeing a lot of people forget about FW. OR OPTION C: Just add PVE to the game and everyone will stop complaining....... Your move CCP Is the 659 LP gain legit? CCP, promoting exploits with every update LOL Commando LOL Plasma Cannon
Vyzion Eyri The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 2214	Posted - 2013.12.13 19:01:00 - [9] - Quote I will say in its defence that the specialist variants of the prototype weapons can make some damn good suits, so good that you probably should be grinding them at a rate of 2 weapons per FW match at level 10 standings. Besides that, it's a very good scheme to make money off LP boosters. "When nothing is going your way, go out of your way to do nothing."
Marston VC SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1332	Posted - 2013.12.13 19:03:00 - [10] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: Marston VC wrote: Whats up with that CCP? So hypothetically I play 200 wins for one faction to get level 10 standings, and im only going to make twice as much as someone who plays 3 matches? How does Risk vs Reward pan out in this one? I might as well get level 4 on all four factions and just leave it at that. This adds to the fact that no matter how good or bad you do in a match, your going to get the same reward as everyone else. The top guy in match is going to make the same LP as the bottom guy whos sniping off in the redline somewhere. This is a serious issue CCP. Faction Warfare is going to change from being a super competitive game mode, to pretty much the same thing as pub matches except you don't get Isk...... Whats the point of that??? Look, I realize you guys probably don't want to devalue LP buy having huge rewards at level 10, but theres better ways to incentivize getting to level 10 that wouldn't effect it that much at all. For example, raising the base LP at level 10 to 2,500 would be, in my opinion, completely worth it. At level 10 you've proven your loyalty to the faction, and earning 2,500 instead of 659 would be a more then acceptable reward. OR you could do it so that at level 5 players start to get payed isk. lvl 5: 20% isk payout (in comparison to a normal pub match) lvl 6: 40% lvl 7: 60% lvl 8: 80% lvl 9: 100% lvl 10: 120% This would give incentive aside from the very limited amount of specialty items in the store to play FW. Right now the amount of isk you lose in the attempt to gain LP just isn't worth it. So either something changes on the reward end of FW, or CCP is going to start seeing a lot of people forget about FW. OR OPTION C: Just add PVE to the game and everyone will stop complaining....... Your move CCP Is the 659 LP gain legit? Look at this link and scroll down to the chart that says what your LP payout is at each level..... Marston VC, STB Director

Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5883	Posted - 2013.12.13 19:04:00 - [11] - Quote The LP reward at level 10 is too, I agree. 659 LP is not worth it for me to grind to level 10. However, I am willing to grind for level 10 if the LP reward was set at maybe 1,000 LP. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved?
Alldin Kan Imperfects Negative-Feedback 841	Posted - 2013.12.13 19:05:00 - [12] - Quote Marston VC wrote: Look at this link and scroll down to the chart that says what your LP payout is at each level..... Thanks for the update, I'll stick to regular skirmish. CCP, promoting exploits with every update LOL Commando LOL Plasma Cannon
Marston VC SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1332	Posted - 2013.12.13 19:06:00 - [13] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: The LP reward at level 10 is too, I agree. 659 LP is not worth it for me to grind to level 10. However, I am willing to grind for level 10 if the LP reward was set at maybe 1,000 LP. 1000 is still pretty damn low. I mean..... maybeeeeee it would be easier for CCP to argue that reward. But 659???? Seriously? That's 200 games just to get 300 more LP then someone who plays 3 games per match...... Marston VC, STB Director
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5883	Posted - 2013.12.13 19:06:00 - [14] - Quote Vyzion Eyri wrote: I will say in its defence that the specialist variants of the prototype weapons can make some damn good suits, so good that you probably should be grinding them at a rate of 2 weapons per FW match at level 10 standings. Besides that, it's a very good scheme to make money off LP boosters. Even with salvage, I'm not sure about it with the current state of the rewards. As a dedicated ninja knifer, I will likely be salvaging weapons that I can't use anyways which means that covering the cost of my gear will be difficult. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved?
Aero Yassavi Scions of Athra 4022	Posted - 2013.12.13 19:06:00 - [15] - Quote Monty Mole Clone wrote: isnt the isk sink the point to stop you getting a shed load of better stuff very cheap Who is honestly going to play FW when you can play public matches and get better payouts over a broader market and not need 200 wins to get there nor worry about kicking kicked for FF? Angels of vengeance, angels of mercy, scions of Athra. Amarr Victor
Marston VC SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1332	Posted - 2013.12.13 19:07:00 - [16] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: Marston VC wrote: Look at this link and scroll down to the chart that says what your LP payout is at each level..... Thanks for the update, I'll stick to regular skirmish. Yup..... might as well. Unless you really want that specialty stuff. But there really isn't a whole lot of worthwhile gear to buy in the market TBH. Marston VC, STB Director
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 2311	Posted - 2013.12.13 19:09:00 - [17] - Quote Sign up under the boycott Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Quil Evrything Triple Terrors 533	Posted - 2013.12.13 19:09:00 - [18] - Quote odd. the graph somewhere in the big FW intro, shows a win payout for level 10, to be something obscene like 30,000 if I recall
mollerz Minja Scouts 1305	Posted - 2013.12.13 19:09:00 - [19] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Vyzion Eyri wrote: I will say in its defence that the specialist variants of the prototype weapons can make some damn good suits, so good that you probably should be grinding them at a rate of 2 weapons per FW match at level 10 standings. Besides that, it's a very good scheme to make money off LP boosters. Even with salvage, I'm not sure about it with the current state of the rewards. As a dedicated ninja knifer, I will likely be salvaging weapons that I can't use anyways which means that covering the cost of my gear will be difficult. Plus most people use BPO/MLT gear. Although, I have gotten a few AUR items (people be trippin right) and a couple black eagle/quafe suits. Where is the player market? That is so long over due.... #shittycoding
Marston VC SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1334	Posted - 2013.12.13 19:13:00 - [20] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Vyzion Eyri wrote: I will say in its defence that the specialist variants of the prototype weapons can make some damn good suits, so good that you probably should be grinding them at a rate of 2 weapons per FW match at level 10 standings. Besides that, it's a very good scheme to make money off LP boosters. Even with salvage, I'm not sure about it with the current state of the rewards. As a dedicated ninja knifer, I will likely be salvaging weapons that I can't use anyways which means that covering the cost of my gear will be difficult. Even for a standard assault person like myself, 200 wins WITH each one netting level 10 standing LP (659) would yield me 753 of the above mentioned fit I posted. And! It would still cost me 2,000,000 isk on top of that. 200 matches (win or lose) of ambush will net me 1440 of the above mentioned isk version of the suit. So basically, even at level 10, LP is only worth half as much as isk on a tier to tier basis. I mean..... yeah, sure, all of the gear in the LP market is like AUR gear. But that doesn't justify LP being worth half as much as isk....... (AT A LEVEL 10 STANDING RATE!!!) By level 5 standing, LP should be at least to a 1:1 ratio with isk....... Marston VC, STB Director

Marston VC SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1334	Posted - 2013.12.13 19:15:00 - [21] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Sign up under the boycott (funny thing, im not actually going to boycott it, im just going to start running BPO suits so I don't lose isk as I gain the specialty items (ie: nanite injectors/nanohives)) But I will sign up in boycotting the isk sink aspect of it Marston VC, STB Director
Marston VC SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1334	Posted - 2013.12.13 19:17:00 - [22] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: odd. the graph somewhere in the big FW intro, shows a win payout for level 10, to be something obscene like 30,000 if I recall They removed that graph and added a chart showing the actual payouts...... Marston VC, STB Director
Alldin Kan Imperfects Negative-Feedback 841	Posted - 2013.12.13 19:19:00 - [23] - Quote Marston VC wrote: Alldin Kan wrote: Marston VC wrote: Look at this link and scroll down to the chart that says what your LP payout is at each level..... Thanks for the update, I'll stick to regular skirmish. Yup..... might as well. Unless you really want that specialty stuff. But there really isn't a whole lot of worthwhile gear to buy in the market TBH. Adding those things on my fits would only give around 50 extra HP for my fits, so it really isn't that great anyways. CCP, promoting exploits with every update LOL Commando LOL Plasma Cannon
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5883	Posted - 2013.12.13 19:22:00 - [24] - Quote Given the math seen here and after thinking about it for a while, I guess it would be worth it if the LP payout at level 10 was perhaps 1500 LP. With the math in the link posted, 1500 LP would net the player at least 474,555 ISK worth of LP per match assuming it's based on the worth of the proto suit the player is after. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved?
Marston VC SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1335	Posted - 2013.12.13 19:23:00 - [25] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: Marston VC wrote: Alldin Kan wrote: Marston VC wrote: Look at this link and scroll down to the chart that says what your LP payout is at each level..... Thanks for the update, I'll stick to regular skirmish. Yup..... might as well. Unless you really want that specialty stuff. But there really isn't a whole lot of worthwhile gear to buy in the market TBH. Adding those things on my fits would only give around 50 extra HP for my fits, so it really isn't that great anyways. The equipment is kind of worth it. 100% needle and a nanohive that reps 2 grenades per rep compared to every other one that just does 1. Not to mention the specialist rail rifle. Caldari is a good race to have. But yup...... other then some very small aspects of the LP store, its really not worth it. Marston VC, STB Director
Marston VC SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1335	Posted - 2013.12.13 19:26:00 - [26] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Given the math seen here and after thinking about it for a while, I guess it would be worth it if the LP payout at level 10 was perhaps 1500 LP. With the math in the link posted, 1500 LP would net the player at least 474,555 ISK worth of LP per match assuming it's based on the worth of the proto suit the player is after. Yup, that wouldn't be too terrible. As it stands right now, based on the math in that link, you have to ask yourself "do I really want to grind 200 wins just to unlock the ability to break even in FW matches compared to pub matches?" The incentive just isn't there right now, and I hope CCP sees this and changes something quick cuz FW is going to get real dry real fast if they don't. Marston VC, STB Director
Skihids Unkn0wn Killers Renegade Alliance 2526	Posted - 2013.12.13 19:33:00 - [27] - Quote The whole concept of using gear as an incentive for an ISK sink is flawed. Everyone is going to compare the new currency (LP) to the old (ISK) and work for the new only if it exceeds the old. That means any new currency will be used only to the extent that is INCREASES the reward. It cannot work as a sink because people will learn that it isn't as good a deal and will avoid it. The only way to make an ISK sink work is to offer non material rewards, something cosmetic. That could be fancy colored suits or titles. So for example you might introduce arena fighting with the winner getting some salvage from the loser, but no ISK prize. Each battle results in a net loss, but the winner gets bragging rights for being the best.. Essentially they are purchasing the opportunity to show off. That's how you remove ISK from the market. We are mercenaries. As long as you focus on gear we will be comparing costs. That's our business and we need to be efficient to stay in business.
Arx Ardashir Imperium Aeternum 274	Posted - 2013.12.13 20:16:00 - [28] - Quote 3 days after release and you've already played ~200 FW matches and reached lvl 10? Good Lord, son, go outside. Anyways, I play Amarr FW, so at 75 LP per match, ~600 LP sounds awesome.
Marston VC SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1336	Posted - 2013.12.13 22:26:00 - [29] - Quote Arx Ardashir wrote: 3 days after release and you've already played ~200 FW matches and reached lvl 10? Good Lord, son, go outside. Anyways, I play Amarr FW, so at 75 LP per match, ~600 LP sounds awesome. Edit: Also, I was under the impression that some of specialist items were unique to the LP stores. But yes, what makes LP worthwhile isn't necessarily what you can buy yourself with it, but selling it to other players. The player market needs to be implemented for the full effect. no I haven't, you just have to look at the chart I linked to see what the rewards are at level 10. Im only at level 4 right now but the payouts ive been getting match the payouts on the chart. Marston VC, STB Director
Quil Evrything Triple Terrors 549	Posted - 2013.12.15 06:28:00 - [30] - Quote mollerz wrote: Plus most people use BPO/MLT gear. I didnt USED to. I was using "nice" ADV suits, with TT3 pistols, and complex shieldsx2 THen I blew through 5 million ISK, and rethought my strategy. Now I'm using either all BPO, or all BPO except one cheap item. The interesting/sad thing is.. I just changed from a level 4 weapon (TT3 pistol), to a level 0 weapon (toxin AR BPO) and... I'm doing much better Edit: there are still people using proto suits in FW. Worse yet... AURUM proto suits, even.



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