DUST Search - An honest call for reason.

All Channels

General Discussions

An honest call for reason.

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 :: [one page]

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Commander Tzu L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 53	Posted - 2013.12.12 07:22:00 - [1] - Quote So, I am making a serious thread about AV and tanks because it seems the forums have been flooded with QQ and sarcasm (I helped on that last one). Before I begin though, I would like to address two points that people have brought up that I don't believe are relevant to the question of are tanks balanced right now or not. First, fuel injectors. It seems CCP accidentally added an extra 0 somewhere and now tanks can move like the Galactica. I don't think anyone is saying these aren't bugged/glitched/OP and it seems an easy hotfix will bring these back in line with what they were intended to be (or maybe removed all together with the new speed of vehicles?). Second, the sheer number of tanks currently roaming the battlefields of New Eden. Again, this is probably going to get worked out in a week or two. Just like Combat and Rail rifles are filling my kill feed, in a week or two people will stop calling in militia and LP tanks just to try them. Now, to the main point. People are complaining that their swarms and AV nades aren't affecting shield tanks while their hardeners are up. Well, that's kinda the point isn't it? For 30-45 seconds, a tank has a large bonus to damage resistance and can take a lot of damage, especially from AV weapons designed to kill armor instead of shield tanks, then it has a long cool down where it is vulnerable. Even with a hardener up, forge guns and flux nades can still hurt a shield tank. As soon as that hardener runs out, the 3-4k shield hp can get devoured by swarms and AV, not to mention single forge gun shots taking 45% or more shield hp off a Gunnlogi. Armor tanks, on the other hand have a slightly different setup, being vulnerable to swarms and av nades and being resistant to forge and flux. With armor tanks, same rules apply, swarms will WTFBOOM an armor tank without a hardener on and still do enough damage to put the hurt on the tank with it on. With hardeners having a VERY obvious effect, it seems AV has no excuse not to attack when the hardeners are down, or know when they will need to make sure they have plenty of firepower. As far as people complaining that tanks no longer need teamwork, the fact is it's not true. Assuming no fuel injector and the AV player makes the smart choice to get as close as possible (and equal meta levels and sp), the AV player can solo a tank by catching him with his hardeners on cool down or baiting him to use his hardeners and then getting in a position to do the former. Well that's all I have for now, I need to get to bed as I have a final exam in a few hours. If you want to QQ or simply insult people from the other side of the argument go to my other thread that is markedly less serious than this. Join the discussion and DFTBA.
Repe Susi Rautaleijona Top Men. 816	Posted - 2013.12.12 07:25:00 - [2] - Quote One problem I saw yesterday: When the tank starts getting swarms and other AV against it, it's hardener and fuel injector time. Dash away with that incredible speed where you can't be touched and when in full health, come back to the battlefield to wreak havoc. Not good. Smeehf.
Commander Tzu L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 53	Posted - 2013.12.12 07:27:00 - [3] - Quote Repe Susi wrote: One problem I saw yesterday: When the tank starts getting swarms and other AV against it, it's hardener and fuel injector time. Dash away with that incredible speed where you can't be touched and when in full health, come back to the battlefield to wreak havoc. Not good. Read the first item in the original post's list please.
Lorhak Gannarsein 675	Posted - 2013.12.12 07:29:00 - [4] - Quote Repe Susi wrote: One problem I saw yesterday: When the tank starts getting swarms and other AV against it, it's hardener and fuel injector time. Dash away with that incredible speed where you can't be touched and when in full health, come back to the battlefield to wreak havoc. Not good. Thing is bug. Stop QQ. Cosgar: You know, tanks are actually paper thin once their modules are in cooldown. (Am too sleepy to quote properly)
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4135	Posted - 2013.12.12 07:32:00 - [5] - Quote Commander Tzu wrote: First, fuel injectors. It seems CCP accidentally added an extra 0 somewhere and now tanks can move like the Galactica. I don't think anyone is saying these aren't bugged/glitched/OP and it seems an easy hotfix will bring these back in line with what they were intended to be (or maybe removed all together with the new speed of vehicles?). I think someone should point out this appears to only be a problem with the MILITIA version of the module. Prototype model gives you a 30% speed increase. Militia gives 100%. Take a wild guess where the typo happened.
Thorn Badblood Dust2Dust. Top Men. 107	Posted - 2013.12.12 09:08:00 - [6] - Quote With the matches being 16 v 16, what percent of your team should have to dedicate themselves to killing 1 vehicle. 3 is almost 20% of your team to kill 1 guy. D2D. A Non-Prophet Organization
Ryme Intrinseca The Rainbow Effect 355	Posted - 2013.12.12 09:12:00 - [7] - Quote Thorn Badblood wrote: With the matches being 16 v 16, what percent of your team should have to dedicate themselves to killing 1 vehicle. 3 is almost 20% of your team to kill 1 guy. And to kill six tanks it would take 110% of your team. Another triumph of CCP game design.
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 827	Posted - 2013.12.12 09:37:00 - [8] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Commander Tzu wrote: First, fuel injectors. It seems CCP accidentally added an extra 0 somewhere and now tanks can move like the Galactica. I don't think anyone is saying these aren't bugged/glitched/OP and it seems an easy hotfix will bring these back in line with what they were intended to be (or maybe removed all together with the new speed of vehicles?). I think someone should point out this appears to only be a problem with the MILITIA version of the module. Prototype model gives you a 30% speed increase. Militia gives 100%. Take a wild guess where the typo happened. Honestly a 30% increase seems a bit much with how fast the base speed is. Until I see it I can't say for sure, but it still seems a bit much when the acceleration time for tanks is already this low. Also, I run one on my LAV, they definitely need a longer cooldown time. MINMATAR ARISE! DEMAND that our race's suits be FIXED!!! MATARI PRIDE!! FIX TTK!!
Jack Boost Zarena Family 289	Posted - 2013.12.12 09:59:00 - [9] - Quote Yesterday I got every posible kind of match - tank vs AV-swarm-infranty. (Forges are... nevermind) 1- tanks going after tanks 2- 2 tanks going for infranty. + infranty back up 3- 5 tanks going for infranty in happy mood. AD. 1 - nice match we help each other. My AV fits and tank chase give me fun but no so much isk/sp. AD. 2 - slaughter. Enemy kill everyting at sight... inch by inch. Push all, all around map. My AV fits going down one by one... result 4/10 .... 8 position in wp (yea more logis then ppl that actualy do anyting), most kill in team!, none of enemy tank down. HUGE ISK lost AD.3 Almost same situation like point 2... but not enough red infranty. Outcome... 10/2 first place... I get 6 tank onself with ... how to say... blueberry help as bait. Yes tanks go roaming in happy mood ... but after 6min.. they dont get any more tanks. Unfortunetly... not much more time to win battle for us. So, AV are still valid if you have time and luck. But these things are always in shortage at battlefield. SP from AV fighting are terrible. ISK sink is huge. (70k tanks vs 90k av - nice :)
MINA Longstrike 2Shitz 1Giggle 166	Posted - 2013.12.12 10:07:00 - [10] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Thorn Badblood wrote: With the matches being 16 v 16, what percent of your team should have to dedicate themselves to killing 1 vehicle. 3 is almost 20% of your team to kill 1 guy. And to kill six tanks it would take 110% of your team. Another triumph of CCP game design. You're either being sarcastic, or you're stupid... I'm not sure which. Now just for the sake of being pedantic I'm going to assume you're serious and my only response is 'do your guns stop working after you kill one tank?'. The answer to that rhetorical question is no, go find a supply depot, grab an LAV and zoom around the map tank hunting with your 3 man squad.

Aikuchi Tomaru Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1240	Posted - 2013.12.12 10:09:00 - [11] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Thorn Badblood wrote: With the matches being 16 v 16, what percent of your team should have to dedicate themselves to killing 1 vehicle. 3 is almost 20% of your team to kill 1 guy. And to kill six tanks it would take 110% of your team. Another triumph of CCP game design. And if the enemy is using 6 tanks you win anyways because tankers aren't really known for their ability to capture points. So you just **** it then and stay in CQC.
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 827	Posted - 2013.12.12 10:11:00 - [12] - Quote Aikuchi Tomaru wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Thorn Badblood wrote: With the matches being 16 v 16, what percent of your team should have to dedicate themselves to killing 1 vehicle. 3 is almost 20% of your team to kill 1 guy. And to kill six tanks it would take 110% of your team. Another triumph of CCP game design. And if the enemy is using 6 tanks you win anyways because tankers aren't really known for their ability to capture points. So you just **** it then and stay in CQC. And get cloned when they sit outside the cqc areas waiting to fire in blaster rounds when the other team flushes you out with core locus grenades. Smart. FYI, it only takes 1 person to run a tank, so 6 tanks usually means 10 infantry are still running around. It's dangerous to travel the forums alone, take this! (.:'Honeyed'Lamb**':.) FIX TTK & MINSUITS (GîÉ_GîÉ )
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution 2494	Posted - 2013.12.12 10:12:00 - [13] - Quote Tanks working as intended. Vehicle > infantry.
pegasis prime BIG BAD W0LVES 1409	Posted - 2013.12.12 10:15:00 - [14] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Thorn Badblood wrote: With the matches being 16 v 16, what percent of your team should have to dedicate themselves to killing 1 vehicle. 3 is almost 20% of your team to kill 1 guy. And to kill six tanks it would take 110% of your team. Another triumph of CCP game design. so by your logic once the first tank is dead the av guy just ignores the rest and leaves them to their team or do they turn to the next tank ......it dosent take a whole team to kill 6 tanks unless you want them all dead at the one time Its gone from suck .....to blow level 1 forum warrior
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 764	Posted - 2013.12.12 10:18:00 - [15] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Tanks working as intended. Vehicle > infantry. I find this very true. Now All I saw was this exact scenario: Vehicle comes in - I shoot with my plasma cannon - hardeners go on - I shoot again from cover - I deal little damage - wait a bit - tank either leaves or I shoot it again when it has no hardener - tank leaves or tank dies Plasma Cannon Advocate
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 840	Posted - 2013.12.12 10:23:00 - [16] - Quote Aikuchi Tomaru wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Thorn Badblood wrote: With the matches being 16 v 16, what percent of your team should have to dedicate themselves to killing 1 vehicle. 3 is almost 20% of your team to kill 1 guy. And to kill six tanks it would take 110% of your team. Another triumph of CCP game design. And if the enemy is using 6 tanks you win anyways because tankers aren't really known for their ability to capture points. So you just **** it then and stay in CQC. captureing does not win games. keeping the enemy dead away from points is what wins the game. basic dust 514 lesson.
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 323	Posted - 2013.12.12 10:57:00 - [17] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Thorn Badblood wrote: With the matches being 16 v 16, what percent of your team should have to dedicate themselves to killing 1 vehicle. 3 is almost 20% of your team to kill 1 guy. And to kill six tanks it would take 110% of your team. Another triumph of CCP game design. You're either being sarcastic, or you're stupid... I'm not sure which. Now just for the sake of being pedantic I'm going to assume you're serious and my only response is 'do your guns stop working after you kill one tank?'. The answer to that rhetorical question is no, go find a supply depot, grab an LAV and zoom around the map tank hunting with your 3 man squad. And you are assuming all tanks come in one after another or sitting side by side without shooting
Ryme Intrinseca The Rainbow Effect 356	Posted - 2013.12.12 12:05:00 - [18] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Thorn Badblood wrote: With the matches being 16 v 16, what percent of your team should have to dedicate themselves to killing 1 vehicle. 3 is almost 20% of your team to kill 1 guy. And to kill six tanks it would take 110% of your team. Another triumph of CCP game design. You're either being sarcastic, or you're stupid... I'm not sure which. Now just for the sake of being pedantic I'm going to assume you're serious and my only response is 'do your guns stop working after you kill one tank?'. The answer to that rhetorical question is no, go find a supply depot, grab an LAV and zoom around the map tank hunting with your 3 man squad. Why do that when a single rail tank achieves the same results? I.e. tank>infantry.
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 2586	Posted - 2013.12.12 12:08:00 - [19] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: Repe Susi wrote: One problem I saw yesterday: When the tank starts getting swarms and other AV against it, it's hardener and fuel injector time. Dash away with that incredible speed where you can't be touched and when in full health, come back to the battlefield to wreak havoc. Not good. Thing is bug. Stop QQ. We aren't allowed complain about a bug? No.
Leovarian L Lavitz NECROM0NGERS Covert Intervention 855	Posted - 2013.12.12 12:11:00 - [20] - Quote I believe that by design both teams are supposed to field a number of tanks, dropships, and lavs in addition to infantry. 10 infantry taking points with 6 vehicles doing vehicle things. Omni-Soldier Few are my equal in one of these specialties, and there are none who can compare in all of them.

Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 3044	Posted - 2013.12.12 12:15:00 - [21] - Quote Leovarian L Lavitz wrote: I believe that by design both teams are supposed to field a number of tanks, dropships, and lavs in addition to infantry. 10 infantry taking points with 6 vehicles doing vehicle things. Indeed but 6 tanks is overpreforming lol. Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 3 STB-Infantry (Demolition)
Darken-Sol BIG BAD W0LVES 781	Posted - 2013.12.12 12:16:00 - [22] - Quote Leovarian L Lavitz wrote: I believe that by design both teams are supposed to field a number of tanks, dropships, and lavs in addition to infantry. 10 infantry taking points with 6 vehicles doing vehicle things. it is way easier to camp a cru with a squad of sicas. And now its cheaper than protosuits. I wonder which game these blueberries will purchase instead of playing dust for free
Commander Tzu L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 62	Posted - 2013.12.12 13:40:00 - [23] - Quote Darken-Sol wrote: Leovarian L Lavitz wrote: I believe that by design both teams are supposed to field a number of tanks, dropships, and lavs in addition to infantry. 10 infantry taking points with 6 vehicles doing vehicle things. it is way easier to camp a cru with a squad of sicas. And now its cheaper than protosuits. I wonder which game these blueberries will purchase instead of playing dust for free There's a lot of people saying essentially this same thing, so instead of getting all of them in on this I will be lazy this morning and just quote you. One thing comes to mind immediately, which is: why would you spawn on a CRU that is being camped, whether it is by tanks or infantry. I ran Dragonfly scouts and Ravens almost as much as my tanks before 1.7, and I have been in this situation before. Protip: Drop Uplinks and profile dampened scout suits are your friend in this scenario; just spawn in somewhere other than the CRU, if it is being camped by a full squad that means there is only ten people left to cover the rest of the map. People are saying that having to assign a whole squad of AV to kill tanks is lame because then you lose those 6 people and it becomes 14 v 10 or something near that. But, if they have 6 tanks on a CRU then you are in the same situation that AV people are complaining about being in; now your team has the advantage in suits for other areas of the map. You could have 3 people spawning on uplinks near the CRU hitting the tanks with AV and hiding; effectively taking a whole squad out of action for a little while and giving your team the +3 advantage. Now, if they have infantry then it is a slightly different story because then all I can say is ninja those other objectives out from under their whole team camping that one CRU. Militia tanks cost less than protosuits yea, but fully proto fitted AV suits can wreck militia tanks. Hardeners for militia tanks have a VERY long cool down. Of course, theoretically, you could always call in an equal amount of cheap militia tanks. Or one Gunnlogi or Madrugar who knows what they are doing. But honestly, go buy some militia tanks and fit them, I can even help to get you a really good militia fit, and run them for a few matches. I bet you will notice there is a lot less AV than before 1.7, and that when you actually find av it will be more potent than you think.
Mobius Wyvern Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 4072	Posted - 2013.12.12 14:05:00 - [24] - Quote Repe Susi wrote: One problem I saw yesterday: When the tank starts getting swarms and other AV against it, it's hardener and fuel injector time. Dash away with that incredible speed where you can't be touched and when in full health, come back to the battlefield to wreak havoc. Not good. Again, this is related to the broken Nitrous module. I will also take the opportunity in this thread to once again state that whatever fixes are necessary as far as RDVs are concerned need to be taken care of so that an RDV is involved in recalling tanks. They're only even staying in the tank because they can get away with that broken module. As soon as you take that away they'll just pull behind a corner and Houdini their tanks away just like they always used to. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
chase rowland The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo 112	Posted - 2013.12.12 14:35:00 - [25] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Commander Tzu wrote: First, fuel injectors. It seems CCP accidentally added an extra 0 somewhere and now tanks can move like the Galactica. I don't think anyone is saying these aren't bugged/glitched/OP and it seems an easy hotfix will bring these back in line with what they were intended to be (or maybe removed all together with the new speed of vehicles?). I think someone should point out this appears to only be a problem with the MILITIA version of the module. Prototype model gives you a 30% speed increase.
MINA Longstrike 2Shitz 1Giggle 169	Posted - 2013.12.12 14:52:00 - [26] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Thorn Badblood wrote: With the matches being 16 v 16, what percent of your team should have to dedicate themselves to killing 1 vehicle. 3 is almost 20% of your team to kill 1 guy. And to kill six tanks it would take 110% of your team. Another triumph of CCP game design. You're either being sarcastic, or you're stupid... I'm not sure which. Now just for the sake of being pedantic I'm going to assume you're serious and my only response is 'do your guns stop working after you kill one tank?'. The answer to that rhetorical question is no, go find a supply depot, grab an LAV and zoom around the map tank hunting with your 3 man squad. Why do that when a single rail tank achieves the same results? I.e. tank>infantry. Edit - also Corvin is right, this doesn't work at all against a tank convoy. And I forgot to return your insult, so let me add that you're probably a no gungame scrub tanker who needs god mode to go positive Haven't touched a tank this patch other than to see what sick tricks I could do stunting off a ramp with a speed booster, I sunk all my sp back into dropships and so far I'm pretty happy splashing people to death when I'm not grinding amarr lp on my alt. And if you really want to talk about no gun game all I have to say is forges have practically no travel time on the projectile, your av grenades have a **ing homing function and all you need to do to make a swarm launcher work is not be so **ing retardedas to be unable to centre an object 2/3rds the size of your screen in a box. "Waaaah but how am I supposed to defend myself when I'm aving" get 'gun game' and use that smg that is by all accounts better than a hmg.
Anarchide Greedy Bastards 1648	Posted - 2013.12.12 15:01:00 - [27] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Thorn Badblood wrote: With the matches being 16 v 16, what percent of your team should have to dedicate themselves to killing 1 vehicle. 3 is almost 20% of your team to kill 1 guy. And to kill six tanks it would take 110% of your team. Another triumph of CCP game design. You're either being sarcastic, or you're stupid... I'm not sure which. Now just for the sake of being pedantic I'm going to assume you're serious and my only response is 'do your guns stop working after you kill one tank?'. The answer to that rhetorical question is no, go find a supply depot, grab an LAV and zoom around the map tank hunting with your 3 man squad. Why do that when a single rail tank achieves the same results? I.e. tank>infantry. Edit - also Corvin is right, this doesn't work at all against a tank convoy. And I forgot to return your insult, so let me add that you're probably a no gungame scrub tanker who needs god mode to go positive Haven't touched a tank this patch other than to see what sick tricks I could do stunting off a ramp with a speed booster, I sunk all my sp back into dropships and so far I'm pretty happy splashing people to death when I'm not grinding amarr lp on my alt. And if you really want to talk about no gun game all I have to say is forges have practically no travel time on the projectile, your av grenades have a **ing homing function and all you need to do to make a swarm launcher work is not be so *ing retardedas to be unable to centre an object 2/3rds the size of your screen in a box. "Waaaah but how am I supposed to defend myself when I'm aving" get 'gun game' and use that smg that is by all accounts better than a hmg. Your sentence has been set. 1 month playing AV only without Forge Gun. Dismiss Greedy Bastards'* Hate Lord
Ryme Intrinseca The Rainbow Effect 369	Posted - 2013.12.12 15:18:00 - [28] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Thorn Badblood wrote: With the matches being 16 v 16, what percent of your team should have to dedicate themselves to killing 1 vehicle. 3 is almost 20% of your team to kill 1 guy. And to kill six tanks it would take 110% of your team. Another triumph of CCP game design. You're either being sarcastic, or you're stupid... I'm not sure which. Now just for the sake of being pedantic I'm going to assume you're serious and my only response is 'do your guns stop working after you kill one tank?'. The answer to that rhetorical question is no, go find a supply depot, grab an LAV and zoom around the map tank hunting with your 3 man squad. Why do that when a single rail tank achieves the same results? I.e. tank>infantry. Edit - also Corvin is right, this doesn't work at all against a tank convoy. And I forgot to return your insult, so let me add that you're probably a no gungame scrub tanker who needs god mode to go positive Haven't touched a tank this patch other than to see what sick tricks I could do stunting off a ramp with a speed booster, I sunk all my sp back into dropships and so far I'm pretty happy splashing people to death when I'm not grinding amarr lp on my alt. And if you really want to talk about no gun game all I have to say is forges have practically no travel time on the projectile, your av grenades have a **ing homing function and all you need to do to make a swarm launcher work is not be so **ing retardedas to be unable to centre an object 2/3rds the size of your screen in a box. "Waaaah but how am I supposed to defend myself when I'm aving" get 'gun game' and use that smg that is by all accounts better than a hmg. I exclusively use assault rifles. Is that gungame enough for you?
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 8681	Posted - 2013.12.12 15:43:00 - [29] - Quote Designing vehicles to take advantage of "waves of opportunity" sounds great until you factor in that even without the glitch, tanks are insanely fast now, maps are wicked small, redlines exist, and we don't have E War. If you want to be AV now, you need an AV vehicle. Otherwise, you're just tickling someones Elmo. Vids / O7
Commander Tzu L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 63	Posted - 2013.12.12 17:35:00 - [30] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Designing vehicles to take advantage of "waves of opportunity" sounds great until you factor in that even without the glitch, tanks are insanely fast now, maps are wicked small, redlines exist, and we don't have E War. If you want to be AV now, you need an AV vehicle. Otherwise, you're just tickling someones Elmo. You forgot forge guns. Even with their charge time nerf they can do hella damage to tanks, and best of all they actually have to aim. On a related note the funniest thing about all this is people complaining how easy tanks are now. Really now, you have to literally be blind to miss the signs when to attack an enemy tank, and even with hardeners on swarms and forges can hit hard vs the type of tank they are designed to kill. I agree though we don't really need any fuel injectors, tanks are fast enough now they can get out of harms way in a timely manner but still take 2-3 hits depending on the range/type of weapon. Also I would just like to point out how funny it is that before 1.7 AVers accused tankers of not being able to use teamwork and now 6 of us camp a CRU and AVers cry some more. =D

Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 2596	Posted - 2013.12.12 18:29:00 - [31] - Quote Leovarian L Lavitz wrote: I believe that by design both teams are supposed to field a number of tanks, dropships, and lavs in addition to infantry. 10 infantry taking points with 6 vehicles doing vehicle things. And yet tankers expect to be only vulnerable to 3 or more infantry with a gazillion SP into AV. No.
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1202	Posted - 2013.12.12 18:38:00 - [32] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Tanks working as intended. Vehicle > infantry. And where did you get this? Vehicles should never be better than infantry, they should be equal! I have told you so many goddamn times, that's linear escalation game play and that is a bad thing! Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Commander Tzu L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 64	Posted - 2013.12.12 19:43:00 - [33] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Tanks working as intended. Vehicle > infantry. And where did you get this? Vehicles should never be better than infantry, they should be equal! I have told you so many goddamn times, that's linear escalation game play and that is a bad thing! I think it is pretty equal if you don't take into consideration the broken fuel injectors, which I think they should be removed entirely. I just ran a match where my Madrugar didn't have anything at all to fear from infantry, because out of 16 people none decided to go grab their swarms. Tanks have hardeners that make them very resilient for a limited period of time, in between being able to use hardeners even one person with militia swarms could have out damaged my armor repper and forced me to either commit to fighting or retreat. That's the trade off. Tanks are only at their max part of the time, AV is at their max ALL the time. This is a good thing, because tanks can be tanks sometimes, but have to decide when and where to use their modules. AV on the other hand is in a position to take advantage of any opportunity the tanks are weakened due to their modules being in cooldown. My proto Madrugar is pretty hopeless when my hardeners turn off and there are proto swarms near me.
MINA Longstrike 2Shitz 1Giggle 170	Posted - 2013.12.12 21:08:00 - [34] - Quote Chunky Munkey wrote: Leovarian L Lavitz wrote: I believe that by design both teams are supposed to field a number of tanks, dropships, and lavs in addition to infantry. 10 infantry taking points with 6 vehicles doing vehicle things. And yet tankers expect to be only vulnerable to 3 or more infantry with a gazillion SP into AV. No, I was actually somewhat hesitant when they decided they were going to do 'waves of opportunity' as it sounded like it could have tanks that are either overpowered or too weak. I just wanted tanks to be relatively consistently strong all the time rather than either invincible or an easy kill. Now that said, I don't necessarily feel that this patch has been bad so far, even if tanks seem to have started out strong (maybe too strong?) I'd rather balance something that's 'powerful' into being consistant and fair, rather than balance something that's underpowered. The majority of the QQ is coming from people who want their militia swarms to be able to solo tanks easily again which is wrong because the power of a weapon should be proportional to its ease of use and people qqing about tanks abusing the bugged militia speed booster.
Summ Dude Militaires-Sans-Frontieres 83	Posted - 2013.12.12 21:38:00 - [35] - Quote Commander Tzu wrote: Even with a hardener up, forge guns and flux nades can still hurt a shield tank. As soon as that hardener runs out, the 3-4k shield hp can get devoured by swarms and AV, not to mention single forge gun shots taking 45% or more shield hp off a Gunnlogi. Ya know forge guns are railguns, therefore doing more damage to armor than shields, right?
Shijima Kuraimaru warravens League of Infamy 416	Posted - 2013.12.12 21:51:00 - [36] - Quote You know, I keep looking at the market place and I still can't find a tank. All I can find are those HAVs. Just because it looks like a tank doesn't mean it is one. For example... The BTR-T Heavy Armored Personnel Carrier. (Yes, I know the HAV isn't a personnel carrier, but that doesn't necessarily make it a tank either.) Otherwise most of you are just falling into... 10. Thou shalt not claim that because a premise is popular, it must be true. (Bandwagon fallacy) Introducing the latest in heavy anti infantry weaponry. The Forge Gun.
Our Deepest Regret The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 355	Posted - 2013.12.12 22:22:00 - [37] - Quote I can personally attest to the effectiveness of AV. They have had me on the run all day. Of course, the best AV in the game is currently a rail tank, but those forge gunners don't give love taps either. Today's been kind of the revenge of the Wyrokomi.
Yoma Carrim Situation Normal all fraked up 115	Posted - 2013.12.12 22:39:00 - [38] - Quote Our Deepest Regret wrote: I can personally attest to the effectiveness of AV. They have had me on the run all day. Of course, the best AV in the game is currently a rail tank, but those forge gunners don't give love taps either. Today's been kind of the revenge of the Wyrokomi. \o/ Wyrokomi \o/ god I love that gun When you turn a corner and find the entire enemy team.Oh Heck Logi, Tanker, Heavy
Commander Tzu L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 67	Posted - 2013.12.13 00:51:00 - [39] - Quote Summ Dude wrote: Commander Tzu wrote: Even with a hardener up, forge guns and flux nades can still hurt a shield tank. As soon as that hardener runs out, the 3-4k shield hp can get devoured by swarms and AV, not to mention single forge gun shots taking 45% or more shield hp off a Gunnlogi. Ya know forge guns are railguns, therefore doing more damage to armor than shields, right? They still do more damage to shields than swarms do, they not only have a higher base damage but I believe they only have a -10 damage modifier as opposed to -20. This, coupled with the fact shield tanks have lower hp than armor tanks means forge guns are better than swarms against them. That being said, plasma cannons are pretty good with their 20% bonus, yes they only have one shot but as I said earlier shield tanks have rather low shield hp and when the hardeners are down a single shot can do quite a lot of damage. Shijima Kuraimaru wrote: You know, I keep looking at the market place and I still can't find a tank. All I can find are those HAVs. Just because it looks like a tank doesn't mean it is one. For example... The BTR-T Heavy Armored Personnel Carrier. (Yes, I know the HAV isn't a personnel carrier, but that doesn't necessarily make it a tank either.) Otherwise most of you are just falling into... 10. Thou shalt not claim that because a premise is popular, it must be true. (Bandwagon fallacy) Well the marketplace only has Mass Drivers, these things launch grenades with a parabolic trajectory and, when they explode, send shrapnel and a concussion wave out to injure or kill. Occam's razor and a form of inductive reasoning sometimes called the "duck test" would seem to indicate that the Mass Driver is a grenade launcher, at least by our definition. We can use the same reasoning to reasonably conclude that HAVs are, in fact, tanks. Another thing to do is define "tank", which according to Merriam-Webster is: "an enclosed heavily armed and armored combat vehicle that moves on tracks." Enclosed? Check. Heavy? Well it is a Heavy Assault Vehicle, check. Combat vehicle that moves on tracks? Check and check. Other definitions include that it must have a cannon, which it does, and be designed for front-line combat as opposed to a more support role. Check the description and it is clear all the vehicles classified as HAVs by the game were designed for front-line combat. As far as comparing the HAVs we have to a BTR, an infantry fighting vehicle, it actually is important that our HAVs aren't personnel carriers because that is one of the characteristics that make something an Infantry Fighting Vehicle. And while it doesn't MAKE it a tank, It is a characteristic that can prevent it from being a tank. Lots of people agree that humans need oxygen to survive, and even though it's a popular idea it doesn't make it any less true. The bandwagon fallacy only works when your acceptance that a claim is true is based solely on the fact that it is possible. I would also leave you with a quote from the ever insightful Bard: "What's in a name? That which we call a rose by any other name would smell as sweet."


Pages: 1 2 :: [one page]

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online/DUST514, the EVE/DUST514 logo, EVE/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to OMG Labs to use EVE Online/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, OMG Labs. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.