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Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
2596
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Posted - 2013.12.12 18:29:00 -
[31] - Quote
Leovarian L Lavitz wrote:I believe that by design both teams are supposed to field a number of tanks, dropships, and lavs in addition to infantry. 10 infantry taking points with 6 vehicles doing vehicle things.
And yet tankers expect to be only vulnerable to 3 or more infantry with a gazillion SP into AV.
No.
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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1202
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Posted - 2013.12.12 18:38:00 -
[32] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Tanks working as intended.
Vehicle > infantry.
And where did you get this?
Vehicles should never be better than infantry, they should be equal!
I have told you so many goddamn times, that's linear escalation game play and that is a bad thing!
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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Commander Tzu
L.O.T.I.S.
Public Disorder.
64
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Posted - 2013.12.12 19:43:00 -
[33] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Tanks working as intended.
Vehicle > infantry. And where did you get this? Vehicles should never be better than infantry, they should be equal! I have told you so many goddamn times, that's linear escalation game play and that is a bad thing!
I think it is pretty equal if you don't take into consideration the broken fuel injectors, which I think they should be removed entirely. I just ran a match where my Madrugar didn't have anything at all to fear from infantry, because out of 16 people none decided to go grab their swarms. Tanks have hardeners that make them very resilient for a limited period of time, in between being able to use hardeners even one person with militia swarms could have out damaged my armor repper and forced me to either commit to fighting or retreat. That's the trade off. Tanks are only at their max part of the time, AV is at their max ALL the time. This is a good thing, because tanks can be tanks sometimes, but have to decide when and where to use their modules. AV on the other hand is in a position to take advantage of any opportunity the tanks are weakened due to their modules being in cooldown. My proto Madrugar is pretty hopeless when my hardeners turn off and there are proto swarms near me. |
MINA Longstrike
2Shitz 1Giggle
170
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Posted - 2013.12.12 21:08:00 -
[34] - Quote
Chunky Munkey wrote:Leovarian L Lavitz wrote:I believe that by design both teams are supposed to field a number of tanks, dropships, and lavs in addition to infantry. 10 infantry taking points with 6 vehicles doing vehicle things. And yet tankers expect to be only vulnerable to 3 or more infantry with a gazillion SP into AV.
No, I was actually somewhat hesitant when they decided they were going to do 'waves of opportunity' as it sounded like it could have tanks that are either overpowered or too weak. I just wanted tanks to be relatively consistently strong *all the time* rather than either invincible or an easy kill.
Now that said, I don't necessarily feel that this patch has been bad so far, even if tanks seem to have started out strong (maybe too strong?) I'd rather balance something that's 'powerful' into being consistant and fair, rather than balance something that's underpowered.
The majority of the QQ is coming from people who want their militia swarms to be able to solo tanks easily again which is wrong because the power of a weapon should be proportional to its ease of use and people qqing about tanks abusing the bugged militia speed booster.
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Summ Dude
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
83
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Posted - 2013.12.12 21:38:00 -
[35] - Quote
Commander Tzu wrote:Even with a hardener up, forge guns and flux nades can still hurt a shield tank. As soon as that hardener runs out, the 3-4k shield hp can get devoured by swarms and AV, not to mention single forge gun shots taking 45% or more shield hp off a Gunnlogi.
Ya know forge guns are railguns, therefore doing more damage to armor than shields, right? |
Shijima Kuraimaru
warravens
League of Infamy
416
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Posted - 2013.12.12 21:51:00 -
[36] - Quote
You know, I keep looking at the market place and I still can't find a tank. All I can find are those HAVs.
Just because it looks like a tank doesn't mean it is one. For example...
The BTR-T Heavy Armored Personnel Carrier. (Yes, I know the HAV isn't a personnel carrier, but that doesn't necessarily make it a tank either.)
Otherwise most of you are just falling into...
10. Thou shalt not claim that because a premise is popular, it must be true. (Bandwagon fallacy)
Introducing the latest in heavy anti infantry weaponry. The Forge Gun.
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Our Deepest Regret
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
355
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Posted - 2013.12.12 22:22:00 -
[37] - Quote
I can personally attest to the effectiveness of AV. They have had me on the run all day.
Of course, the best AV in the game is currently a rail tank, but those forge gunners don't give love taps either. Today's been kind of the revenge of the Wyrokomi. |
Yoma Carrim
Situation Normal all fraked up
115
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Posted - 2013.12.12 22:39:00 -
[38] - Quote
Our Deepest Regret wrote:I can personally attest to the effectiveness of AV. They have had me on the run all day.
Of course, the best AV in the game is currently a rail tank, but those forge gunners don't give love taps either. Today's been kind of the revenge of the Wyrokomi.
\o/ Wyrokomi \o/ god I love that gun
When you turn a corner and find the entire enemy team.Oh Heck
Logi, Tanker, Heavy
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Commander Tzu
L.O.T.I.S.
Public Disorder.
67
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Posted - 2013.12.13 00:51:00 -
[39] - Quote
Summ Dude wrote:Commander Tzu wrote:Even with a hardener up, forge guns and flux nades can still hurt a shield tank. As soon as that hardener runs out, the 3-4k shield hp can get devoured by swarms and AV, not to mention single forge gun shots taking 45% or more shield hp off a Gunnlogi. Ya know forge guns are railguns, therefore doing more damage to armor than shields, right?
They still do more damage to shields than swarms do, they not only have a higher base damage but I believe they only have a -10 damage modifier as opposed to -20. This, coupled with the fact shield tanks have lower hp than armor tanks means forge guns are better than swarms against them. That being said, plasma cannons are pretty good with their 20% bonus, yes they only have one shot but as I said earlier shield tanks have rather low shield hp and when the hardeners are down a single shot can do quite a lot of damage.
Shijima Kuraimaru wrote:You know, I keep looking at the market place and I still can't find a tank. All I can find are those HAVs.
Just because it looks like a tank doesn't mean it is one. For example...
The BTR-T Heavy Armored Personnel Carrier. (Yes, I know the HAV isn't a personnel carrier, but that doesn't necessarily make it a tank either.)
Otherwise most of you are just falling into...
10. Thou shalt not claim that because a premise is popular, it must be true. (Bandwagon fallacy)
Well the marketplace only has Mass Drivers, these things launch grenades with a parabolic trajectory and, when they explode, send shrapnel and a concussion wave out to injure or kill. Occam's razor and a form of inductive reasoning sometimes called the "duck test" would seem to indicate that the Mass Driver is a grenade launcher, at least by our definition. We can use the same reasoning to reasonably conclude that HAVs are, in fact, tanks. Another thing to do is define "tank", which according to Merriam-Webster is: "an enclosed heavily armed and armored combat vehicle that moves on tracks." Enclosed? Check. Heavy? Well it is a Heavy Assault Vehicle, check. Combat vehicle that moves on tracks? Check and check. Other definitions include that it must have a cannon, which it does, and be designed for front-line combat as opposed to a more support role. Check the description and it is clear all the vehicles classified as HAVs by the game were designed for front-line combat.
As far as comparing the HAVs we have to a BTR, an infantry fighting vehicle, it actually is important that our HAVs aren't personnel carriers because that is one of the characteristics that make something an Infantry Fighting Vehicle. And while it doesn't MAKE it a tank, It is a characteristic that can prevent it from being a tank.
Lots of people agree that humans need oxygen to survive, and even though it's a popular idea it doesn't make it any less true. The bandwagon fallacy only works when your acceptance that a claim is true is based solely on the fact that it is possible.
I would also leave you with a quote from the ever insightful Bard: "What's in a name? That which we call a rose by any other name would smell as sweet." |
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