DUST Search - Solution for Tanks: Decouple Driving and Main Turret

J-Lewis wrote:

Cosgar wrote:

J-Lewis wrote:

Cosgar wrote:

When it takes one person to move a dropsuit while it takes another to aim and shoot, I'll agree to this. It's only been two days and the crazy ass suggestions are already coming in. Wait for a tank's modules to go down and they're even easier to kill than in 1.0 Uprising. It's that simple. Change up your tactics and stop thinking you can blow them up like in 1.0-1.6.

PS. I'm infantry and I'm saying this.

There is legitimacy to the issue. As I mentioned at the top of this page, it's tank gameplay in general that presents a problem.

HAVs are anti-social. They do not create an element of fun for anyone but the driver, and almost actively discourage teamwork. Filling the gunner seats is a waste of players (the small turrets are for self defense) and usually won't be appreciated by the driver.

HAVs would not only be more effective if they required crew, they would also create an environment of encouraged teamwork. This is something DUST 514 needs much more of.

Tanks do require teamwork. When all the reds are mindlessly trying to take out a tank, who's guarding the objectives? Also tankers can be the most social players in the community if... you're not trying to get them nerfed every patch.

I hesitate to call that teamwork. If the HAV isn't communicating this, then the assaulting force cannot take advantage of it beyond coincidence (and the entire situation leaves them vulnerable to a flank by the returning hostiles if/when the HAV is dealt with). And if the HAV is communicating, it is better used supporting the assault due to the protection that infantry provides against AV.

I'm not suggesting a nerf to HAVs.

I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"

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J-Lewis Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 326	Posted - 2013.12.12 19:39:00 - [31] - Quote Incidentally, module activators should also be split between driver, gunner and commander. This opens the possibility of giving tanks more slots overall. The driver can activate movement related modules. The gunner can activate weapon upgrades. The commander can activate scanning and tanking modules (hardeners, damage control, boosters). This way, each role is directly meaningful and contributes to the survival of the HAV.
Kharga Lum Xeno Labs Security 149	Posted - 2013.12.12 20:00:00 - [32] - Quote A single AV player WAS able to destroy a tank. With the ease of switching to an AV suit and having one or more players fire AV at a single tank they were unviable in combat, which is why they were rebuilt. Rebuilt poorly I think. If more advanced tanks are ever introduced proto AV will be laughably ineffective if things remain as they are. Having a separate driver for a tank would make them even more dangerous if both players were well co-ordinated. A retreating tank has to look where it's going and can not fire at it's attacker.
Soraya Xel The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 809	Posted - 2013.12.12 20:44:00 - [33] - Quote Kharga, AV needs a little bit of a buff either way, but I think it'd be fair for a two or three-man tank to be more powerful, as long as a one-man tank becomes weaker again. Top Men. - The DUST Arm of the CFC www.dust-gents.com Recruiting corporations and players now!
Shokhann Echo Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 124	Posted - 2013.12.12 21:09:00 - [34] - Quote even though im no longer a tanker. heres why this has always failed to gather support: 1. youl never find a tank pilot willing to skill into tanks just to drive it while someone else takes all the kills the driver skilled for. nor will you ever find a tanker willing to depend on a random person to drive him around risking his assets for no reason 2. how would you like it if you were required to have 2 other people to use your dropsuit. 1 guy for moving, 1 guy for aiming and 1 guy for shooting, doesn't sound too good huh? well don't try to force that on the tankers. Void Echo's Alt Back-up Profile Back on main 12-20-2013
Soraya Xel The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 811	Posted - 2013.12.12 23:43:00 - [35] - Quote Shokhann Echo wrote: 1. youl never find a tank pilot willing to skill into tanks just to drive it while someone else takes all the kills the driver skilled for. nor will you ever find a tanker willing to depend on a random person to drive him around risking his assets for no reason Your logic fails in the terms that logi suits exist. People will do what it takes to win. Often, that means not getting all the glory. Shokhann Echo wrote: 2. how would you like it if you were required to have 2 other people to use your dropsuit. 1 guy for moving, 1 guy for aiming and 1 guy for shooting, doesn't sound too good huh? well don't try to force that on the tankers. My dropsuit doesn't take two to four people to kill. In terms of creating balance, tanks will need to decide which they prefer: * Being nerfed into oblivion and irrelevancy. * Actually having to work as a team. But no, I don't expect tankers to go for it. Because tankers love being overpowered. Why would they want game balance? That's why the decision isn't up to them. Top Men. - The DUST Arm of the CFC www.dust-gents.com Recruiting corporations and players now!
Shokhann Echo Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 125	Posted - 2013.12.13 00:44:00 - [36] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Shokhann Echo wrote: 1. youl never find a tank pilot willing to skill into tanks just to drive it while someone else takes all the kills the driver skilled for. nor will you ever find a tanker willing to depend on a random person to drive him around risking his assets for no reason Your logic fails in the terms that logi suits exist. People will do what it takes to win. Often, that means not getting all the glory. Shokhann Echo wrote: 2. how would you like it if you were required to have 2 other people to use your dropsuit. 1 guy for moving, 1 guy for aiming and 1 guy for shooting, doesn't sound too good huh? well don't try to force that on the tankers. My dropsuit doesn't take two to four people to kill. In terms of creating balance, tanks will need to decide which they prefer: * Being nerfed into oblivion and irrelevancy. * Actually having to work as a team. But no, I don't expect tankers to go for it. Because tankers love being overpowered. Why would they want game balance? That's why the decision isn't up to them. ^ people like this is what makes all infantry look like scrubs, everyone take a good long look Void Echo's Alt Back-up Profile Back on main 12-20-2013
Cosgar ParagonX 8589	Posted - 2013.12.13 01:07:00 - [37] - Quote When it takes one person to move a dropsuit while it takes another to aim and shoot, I'll agree to this. It's only been two days and the crazy ass suggestions are already coming in. Wait for a tank's modules to go down and they're even easier to kill than in 1.0 Uprising. It's that simple. Change up your tactics and stop thinking you can blow them up like in 1.0-1.6. PS. I'm infantry and I'm saying this. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
J-Lewis Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 326	Posted - 2013.12.13 06:12:00 - [38] - Quote Cosgar wrote: When it takes one person to move a dropsuit while it takes another to aim and shoot, I'll agree to this. It's only been two days and the crazy ass suggestions are already coming in. Wait for a tank's modules to go down and they're even easier to kill than in 1.0 Uprising. It's that simple. Change up your tactics and stop thinking you can blow them up like in 1.0-1.6. PS. I'm infantry and I'm saying this. There is legitimacy to the issue. As I mentioned at the top of this page, it's tank gameplay in general that presents a problem. HAVs are anti-social. They do not create an element of fun for anyone but the driver, and almost actively discourage teamwork. Filling the gunner seats is a waste of players (the small turrets are for self defense) and usually won't be appreciated by the driver. HAVs would not only be more effective if they required crew, they would also create an environment of encouraged teamwork. This is something DUST 514 needs much more of.
Cosgar ParagonX 8623	Posted - 2013.12.13 06:17:00 - [39] - Quote J-Lewis wrote: Cosgar wrote: When it takes one person to move a dropsuit while it takes another to aim and shoot, I'll agree to this. It's only been two days and the crazy ass suggestions are already coming in. Wait for a tank's modules to go down and they're even easier to kill than in 1.0 Uprising. It's that simple. Change up your tactics and stop thinking you can blow them up like in 1.0-1.6. PS. I'm infantry and I'm saying this. There is legitimacy to the issue. As I mentioned at the top of this page, it's tank gameplay in general that presents a problem. HAVs are anti-social. They do not create an element of fun for anyone but the driver, and almost actively discourage teamwork. Filling the gunner seats is a waste of players (the small turrets are for self defense) and usually won't be appreciated by the driver. HAVs would not only be more effective if they required crew, they would also create an environment of encouraged teamwork. This is something DUST 514 needs much more of. Tanks do require teamwork. When all the reds are mindlessly trying to take out a tank, who's guarding the objectives? Also tankers can be the most social players in the community if... you're not trying to get them nerfed every patch. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
WASTED MERC The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 46	Posted - 2013.12.13 06:26:00 - [40] - Quote I thought teamwork was something DUST was aiming for? And whats the problem with driver/gunner setup, its how it works with the LAV and all the dropships except the assault

Cosgar ParagonX 8624	Posted - 2013.12.13 06:30:00 - [41] - Quote WASTED MERC wrote: I thought teamwork was something DUST was aiming for? And whats the problem with driver/gunner setup, its how it works with the LAV and all the dropships except the assault Because nobody cried for this in 1.0-1.6 when they were made of cheap cardboard. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
WASTED MERC The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 46	Posted - 2013.12.13 06:34:00 - [42] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Because nobody cried for this in 1.0-1.6 when they were made of cheap cardboard. I made this suggestion previously, a long time ago. To make tanks even better by having dedicated roles in a game where the developers aim is for team play (or so my understanding goes)
J-Lewis Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 327	Posted - 2013.12.13 07:27:00 - [43] - Quote Cosgar wrote: J-Lewis wrote: Cosgar wrote: When it takes one person to move a dropsuit while it takes another to aim and shoot, I'll agree to this. It's only been two days and the crazy ass suggestions are already coming in. Wait for a tank's modules to go down and they're even easier to kill than in 1.0 Uprising. It's that simple. Change up your tactics and stop thinking you can blow them up like in 1.0-1.6. PS. I'm infantry and I'm saying this. There is legitimacy to the issue. As I mentioned at the top of this page, it's tank gameplay in general that presents a problem. HAVs are anti-social. They do not create an element of fun for anyone but the driver, and almost actively discourage teamwork. Filling the gunner seats is a waste of players (the small turrets are for self defense) and usually won't be appreciated by the driver. HAVs would not only be more effective if they required crew, they would also create an environment of encouraged teamwork. This is something DUST 514 needs much more of. Tanks do require teamwork. When all the reds are mindlessly trying to take out a tank, who's guarding the objectives? Also tankers can be the most social players in the community if... you're not trying to get them nerfed every patch. I hesitate to call that teamwork. If the HAV isn't communicating this, then the assaulting force cannot take advantage of it beyond coincidence (and the entire situation leaves them vulnerable to a flank by the returning hostiles if/when the HAV is dealt with). And if the HAV is communicating, it is better used supporting the assault due to the protection that infantry provides against AV. I'm not suggesting a nerf to HAVs.
Cosgar ParagonX 8630	Posted - 2013.12.13 08:22:00 - [44] - Quote J-Lewis wrote: Cosgar wrote: J-Lewis wrote: Cosgar wrote: When it takes one person to move a dropsuit while it takes another to aim and shoot, I'll agree to this. It's only been two days and the crazy ass suggestions are already coming in. Wait for a tank's modules to go down and they're even easier to kill than in 1.0 Uprising. It's that simple. Change up your tactics and stop thinking you can blow them up like in 1.0-1.6. PS. I'm infantry and I'm saying this. There is legitimacy to the issue. As I mentioned at the top of this page, it's tank gameplay in general that presents a problem. HAVs are anti-social. They do not create an element of fun for anyone but the driver, and almost actively discourage teamwork. Filling the gunner seats is a waste of players (the small turrets are for self defense) and usually won't be appreciated by the driver. HAVs would not only be more effective if they required crew, they would also create an environment of encouraged teamwork. This is something DUST 514 needs much more of. Tanks do require teamwork. When all the reds are mindlessly trying to take out a tank, who's guarding the objectives? Also tankers can be the most social players in the community if... you're not trying to get them nerfed every patch. I hesitate to call that teamwork. If the HAV isn't communicating this, then the assaulting force cannot take advantage of it beyond coincidence (and the entire situation leaves them vulnerable to a flank by the returning hostiles if/when the HAV is dealt with). And if the HAV is communicating, it is better used supporting the assault due to the protection that infantry provides against AV. I'm not suggesting a nerf to HAVs. Common sense doesn't require communication, only for the senseless. Not like this is "suggestion" is going to happen anyway. Whether you see it as a nerf or not. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
WASTED MERC The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 49	Posted - 2013.12.13 10:50:00 - [45] - Quote Instead CCP better chain link all guns together for unmanned turrets So a single tank driver will now be firing 1 heavy and 2 small turrets all at the same target, that would be super awesome and it wont be OP at all, its a nerf cause your ammo depleats 3 x as fast :)
Reign Omega BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 59	Posted - 2013.12.13 11:25:00 - [46] - Quote Speaking of turrets...where in gods green acres are the installations getting this infinite ammo? They should have ammo reserves or SOMEthing man, just shooting for days on end, manned or unmanned...I mean it could be an ungodly reserve because its a stationary gun with a giant base for storing ammo but it should still. have. ammunition. B.T.W I finally skilled my tanker up today....and my KDR went up 1 whole point in like...5 games... yah!
Soraya Xel The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 824	Posted - 2013.12.13 15:45:00 - [47] - Quote Reign, I'm guessing it stores ammo the way dropsuits spawn out of a drop uplink. It's bigger on the inside. Top Men. - The DUST Arm of the CFC www.dust-gents.com Recruiting corporations and players now!
CLONE117 planetary retaliation organisation 509	Posted - 2013.12.13 19:26:00 - [48] - Quote well i found the most effective way to deal with tanks so far. its called a bunch of remote explosives placed on the front bumper of an lav. just crash the bomb car into the tank and it should blow the tank and the car up instantly. their only chance for survival is if they manage to destroy the bomb car before u reach your target. ive found it to be really easy to pull off as well. my current fit design was just a std gallente logi suit with all the equipment slots filled with std re. and the vehicle is just a mlt baloch lav. during testing my idea i found it to be very effective. i blew up multiple gunlogis a few maddys and some somas and sicas. and it only requires knowing where the tanks are at.
Reign Omega BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 59	Posted - 2013.12.13 21:38:00 - [49] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Reign, I'm guessing it stores ammo the way dropsuits spawn out of a drop uplink. It's bigger on the inside. This made me think of something slightly off topic, but not really.... Once upon a time I was at a red box getting a movie. A girl in line in front of me was asking the guy in front of her "how do they know what movie you take out or put back in?" The man told her, "There's a person in there who does all the processing, he sits in there all day taking movies and giving them out". She asked him, "Oh really? That sounds like a fun job, are they hiring?", to which he replied "Yes you should apply inside Wal-Mart".... You comment made me picture a poor little Matari slave inside the base with Nanohives and uplinks lol...
Flix Keptick Red Star. EoN. 1598	Posted - 2013.12.13 21:44:00 - [50] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Flix Keptick wrote: This idea has already been murdered before, no. Btw, a driver using the small turret would still murder everything (the probo blasters are really powerfull) There's really only three ways to fix tanks: 1. Ensure a single AV player can destroy it. 2. Increase the number of players required to drive the tank. 3. Reduce the number of total players allowed on a team with a tank. Otherwise, the sole viable game strategy, is to field as many tanks as possible, because they count as two or three players on their own. OOOORRRRRR, giving wp to a player for damaging the tank Making AV an actual role GÿåTank DriverGÿå

Reign Omega BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 63	Posted - 2013.12.15 20:45:00 - [51] - Quote vehicle DMG must be included, also Vehicle repair points for infantry helping out. Its not AS prevalent in 1.7 but I used to HATE bringing my Axis rep tool to a party to help out a tank and rep him for days while he soaks up kills...
Xaviah Reaper Nyain San Renegade Alliance 209	Posted - 2013.12.15 21:02:00 - [52] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: The main problem with tanks is that they're too much power for one player to have in a game where the participant counts are limited. If a player requires multiple other players to kill, it's almost like having an uneven participant count. If someone wants to have a vehicle that takes two people to kill, the vehicle should require two people to man. I propose that the driver's seat of a tank should use the small front gun on the tank. The second seat should me the main gun, making it relatively pointless to one-man a tank, and forcing team cooperative play. Finally, the third seat could have the second turret, as well as some sort of additional bonus logistics role in terms of scanning or damage control. this is in-genius! perfect fix for you here Best game with a Python: 33kills 1 death (1.6) 24kills 1 death (1.7)
Soraya Xel The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 824	Posted - 2013.12.17 14:34:00 - [53] - Quote My discussion with a tanker indicated he wouldn't even mind having someone else to manage modules. If modules were controlled by the third seat, it'd provide that boost to logistics capability when three people are running it, making it more durable and requiring extra AV to combat it when fully staffed. It wouldn't prohibit people from rapidly switching seats to activate modules or use guns, but you'd see a notable benefit from team-based play compared to a solo tanker. Top Men. - The DUST Arm of the CFC www.dust-gents.com Recruiting corporations and players now!
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 361	Posted - 2013.12.17 14:42:00 - [54] - Quote Fizzer94 wrote: Well I think a medium dropsuit+rifle is too powerful for one player to use. If it takes two non-rifle users to take out a rifle user, it should take two people to use a rifle. They should definately be controlled by two players, one controls the movement/jumping/hacking/equipment, while the other would control the aiming/shooting/grenades. If you didn't guess already, I was making a statement on how OP Racial Rifles are, and also how stupid your idea is. The difference is anyone CAN take out a Rifle user by his own without the need to use a rifle. I have used the LR,SG, SMG and hell even the PLC (just for the fun) to take out Rifle users...not to speak from sniper rifles, forges and even the HMG CAN take out Rifle users in a one on one fight. So your point is invalid...
Spartan MK420 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 36	Posted - 2013.12.17 14:58:00 - [55] - Quote they had gaus grenades on an old game i used to play. These weapons (3 shots were all you got, non reloadable), if they hit the Mech/Vehicle, it would automatically cause the player to eject, and not be able to re-enter the vehicle for 5 seconds.
Soraya Xel The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 825	Posted - 2013.12.17 23:29:00 - [56] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: Well I think a medium dropsuit+rifle is too powerful for one player to use. If it takes two non-rifle users to take out a rifle user, it should take two people to use a rifle. They should definately be controlled by two players, one controls the movement/jumping/hacking/equipment, while the other would control the aiming/shooting/grenades. If you didn't guess already, I was making a statement on how OP Racial Rifles are, and also how stupid your idea is. The difference is anyone CAN take out a Rifle user by his own without the need to use a rifle. I have used the LR,SG, SMG and hell even the PLC (just for the fun) to take out Rifle users...not to speak from sniper rifles, forges and even the HMG CAN take out Rifle users in a one on one fight. So your point is invalid... Exactly. The problem is that tanks are a way for a single player to become drastically more powerful than any other player in the game with no real drawbacks. Top Men. - The DUST Arm of the CFC www.dust-gents.com Recruiting corporations and players now!
Soraya Xel The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 828	Posted - 2013.12.27 05:23:00 - [57] - Quote Still waiting for love on this. It's been long enough that tanks have simply been a way for single players to be unstoppable. Top Men. - The DUST Arm of the CFC www.dust-gents.com Recruiting corporations and players now!


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