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Iron Wolf Saber wrote:

C0TS wrote:

You say that the SP modifiers will be going up.. Won't that emphasize the growing disparity between the elite and everyone else? Increasing the SP required for top tier weapons and their mods/status effects will hurt the mid to low tier players, and expand the gap between elite and everyone else no?

Will this issue be handled in maybe a more balanced match making process?

-Cots

Currently there is a disparity now.

'Weapon' Proficiency skills is and shouldn't be a tier 4 skill but it is. Damage + skills need to be tier 1 skills.

Ultimately there is no way to truly get rid of the height vs wide arguments. Any game that has you permanently stuck at 'lvl 1' still continue to be a game where its a race to get to top the fastest in other means (gear, position, resources) and that veteran players will always can and will retain the advantage.

You can place a true vet in the shoes of a noob (called smurfing) and they will still absolutely ruin everything still.

Bottom line is to not make it so that veterans are completely neutered but to allow the newer players the ability to get skills that could improve their experience and empower them.

So the best way to do this is first get rid of dead skills that do nothing.
Get rid of skills for just because skills (all current weapon operations are guilty of this
And get rid of pure unlock skills.

These type of skills only serve as a buffer between veterans and rookies, putting the best fruit at the top of the tree is not the way to go, but putting the best fruit near the bottom is.

The problem with near the bottom is that we may get faced with the 'must train' skills and while these are not as fun they're not as bad as a dead skill.

However with so few skills unlocking so many gun choices for small investments the real skill investments in specialization has to be taken out on the specialization skills.

Remember weapons will still have a bonus local to their performance (that is anchored to the 'family' 'size' weapon skill, operator skills are a secondary bonus to further tweak the performance of weapons.

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Cotsy Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2014.02.24 18:05:00 - [151] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: C0TS wrote: You say that the SP modifiers will be going up.. Won't that emphasize the growing disparity between the elite and everyone else? Increasing the SP required for top tier weapons and their mods/status effects will hurt the mid to low tier players, and expand the gap between elite and everyone else no? Will this issue be handled in maybe a more balanced match making process? -Cots Currently there is a disparity now. 'Weapon' Proficiency skills is and shouldn't be a tier 4 skill but it is. Damage + skills need to be tier 1 skills. Ultimately there is no way to truly get rid of the height vs wide arguments. Any game that has you permanently stuck at 'lvl 1' still continue to be a game where its a race to get to top the fastest in other means (gear, position, resources) and that veteran players will always can and will retain the advantage. You can place a true vet in the shoes of a noob (called smurfing) and they will still absolutely ruin everything still. Bottom line is to not make it so that veterans are completely neutered but to allow the newer players the ability to get skills that could improve their experience and empower them. So the best way to do this is first get rid of dead skills that do nothing. Get rid of skills for just because skills (all current weapon operations are guilty of this And get rid of pure unlock skills. These type of skills only serve as a buffer between veterans and rookies, putting the best fruit at the top of the tree is not the way to go, but putting the best fruit near the bottom is. The problem with near the bottom is that we may get faced with the 'must train' skills and while these are not as fun they're not as bad as a dead skill. However with so few skills unlocking so many gun choices for small investments the real skill investments in specialization has to be taken out on the specialization skills. Remember weapons will still have a bonus local to their performance (that is anchored to the 'family' 'size' weapon skill, operator skills are a secondary bonus to further tweak the performance of weapons. Yes, building a linear tree for lower level players is a great way to close the gap; that being said what makes you think that elite players aren't building linear skill trees as well? The SP gap between the elite and the rest of dust 514 players create unbalanced matches; matches that aren't fun for players on both sides and in particular the team being stomped. Case and point the video posted "I'm reporting you" by ancient exile member Moody. Watch it. There's nothing middle,of the road and lower tier players can do in that, or many matches when pitted against impossible odds. It's not fun being on either side of uneven battles, it turns new players off to the game and frankly, when matches are balanced it seems 2 elite corps don't like to compete against each other. So you have created a game where the top stomp on the middle and the bottom, making player grow impossible because players are turned off to the game early. As well, the top players seem to avoid each other because they don't care for the competition, the challenge, or the potential loss. The elite of the game are the most influential, it seems this elite community refuses to accept match making is the single biggest problem. Instead, they prefer to complain about how they can't stomp those hiding in redlnes or how they can't reach redline rail guns.Having a match where both sides have an equal chance of winning should be the goal. This can be done by ranking players and teams based on stats like average WP or SP (in a team of 5 the top 3 player averages will count to prevent them from lowering their totals by bringing noob). There's nothing wrong with making my 14m SP character play with similar SP players, while my 600k alt character gets to player similar SP characters. Yet, these characters are seemingly 3/4 times are matched up against elite corps (AE, NS, etc...) and high SP players in the matchmaking process, which is ridiculous. If the elite of the community continue not to want fair and even matches, the only answer is to create a mercenary game mode (exactly like Call of Duty) where single players enter a game mode not in a corp. It'll lower the chances of uneven matches, lower the likelyhood of Proto stomping and provide middle to lower tier players the ability to pick up the controller and play a quick game. The answer isn't this randomly find a team, the answer is balanced matches and giving players the ability to login and play in a mercenary mode. Just because the current game mode favours the elite community doesn't mean you can't separate players into tiers based on skill and SP and create a better environment in match for all. The player base needs to grow and the answer isn't having them constantly stomped, but having a balanced gameplay until they reach a certain cap ( maybe like of 24-26m SP). A point where all characters become equal or can 100% finalize a linear skill tree. - Cots
Magpie Raven ZionTCD 389	Posted - 2014.03.19 12:48:00 - [152] - Quote This stuff is totally awesome! CCP really needs to see this. That skill tree is amazing and I hope that eventually his game gets something like it. And your NPE is genius. Its the ideal way to introduce people to he game. I was thinking something similar myself however yours is much more thought out. Anything new to add? Id love to see this completed. Is this project still alive?
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 13837	Posted - 2014.03.28 08:44:00 - [153] - Quote CCP already has seen it thanks to someone tweeting about it >< Right now been busy with cpm work hadn't had time to deal with this. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
emm kay Federal State Marines Canis Eliminatus Operatives 82	Posted - 2014.04.12 19:28:00 - [154] - Quote can I suggest: squad UI -- You called, sir?
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 14207	Posted - 2014.04.12 21:49:00 - [155] - Quote emm kay wrote: can I suggest: squad UI Okay for squad UI we have to be careful where we put it for starters and how much information it should have. Then of course layout is important for information compression one thing to avoid it UI cluttering overall so. Then toss on top of it optionality; being able to turn it off should and must be important. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
JARREL THOMAS Dead Man's Game 261	Posted - 2014.04.13 06:41:00 - [156] - Quote Your my favorite cpm xD Caldari Loyalist I speak for the rabbits
emm kay Federal State Marines Canis Eliminatus Operatives 82	Posted - 2014.04.14 00:31:00 - [157] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Okay for squad UI we have to be careful where we put it for starters and how much information it should have. Then of course layout is important for information compression one thing to avoid it UI cluttering overall so. Then toss on top of it optionality; being able to turn it off should and must be important. can it be a 'select' toggle? or maybe something to put on 'down' on the D-pad and broadcasts could be similar to the hotkeys for squad commands (these are for default controlls) how much information, is very sensitive, I agree. I was thinking it would be easier if squads were more like evian fleets. -- You called, sir?
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 14230	Posted - 2014.04.14 02:15:00 - [158] - Quote emm kay wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Okay for squad UI we have to be careful where we put it for starters and how much information it should have. Then of course layout is important for information compression one thing to avoid it UI cluttering overall so. Then toss on top of it optionality; being able to turn it off should and must be important. can it be a 'select' toggle? or maybe something to put on 'down' on the D-pad and broadcasts could be similar to the hotkeys for squad commands (these are for default controlls) how much information, is very sensitive, I agree. I was thinking it would be easier if squads were more like evian fleets. Well while I am no UI designer I know that clean UIs are some of the best ones but information flow has to be manageable. http://screenshot.xfire.com/s/4041833-4.jpg While an exaggeration; you don't need this level of information as a first person shooter no matter how useful all that information is your screen is only so large and UI is not the area of most action. http://img.gamefaqs.net/screens/2/3/e/gfs_106428_2_22.jpg Is the exact opposite direction of course. This is fine in single player pure fps; but dust 514 is an rpg on paper states and a fps in execution of those rolls. Thus this level of information while passing may not be sufficient for the field. Now there are a couple ways we can get reduce clutter on the field and the likes but this is where it becomes tough. For example you have a name and bar for each squad member. Why not module circle icon with the health bar wrapped around it for each squad member? Circle icon has class or vehicle role. The circle icon changes icon flashes or animates based on what they're doing or need (out of ammo; at supply depot; hacking; under attack; need transport ect ect) The bar around the circle will be their armor and shields right half armor left half shields. Names only pop out during squad ordering contest menus; equipment swap menus; and order of icons the same as the squad readout on the dead screen. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Nelo Angel0 Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 217	Posted - 2014.04.14 02:30:00 - [159] - Quote Hey IWS mind giving your opinion on this idea or how the dropsuits unlock still tree could look? It'll probably come off as a slight rant about scouts but it really isn't since the main focus was the focusing of roles on dropsuits. I'm not saying they should be nerfed or anything but they could certainly define what a scout is suppose to be a bit better. How about putting those basic frames to good use and making it so that basic frames are what the typeI/IIs were in chromosone. The idea is that the scout suit and basic light frame would be 2 different suits. The specializtion suit ( for all frames and races ) would also get passive buffs and a overall different slot layout ( hell lets go the distance and change up their HP as well ) and get passive buffs to things like light weapon reload or light weapon kick reduction. While specialization suits get things beneficial to the suits themselves and their intended role, different scouts get different buffs none of this bs where their ALL getting a buff to ONE equipment. Just in case no one really understood the point i'm trying to make. What i'm saying is basic suits should give buffs too; these buff would be general buffs towards things like weapons/shield mods/armor mods. Specialization suits meanwhile give buffs toward a general play-style ( these would be dependent on race ) so scouts would receive buffs toward eWAR, assaults to PG/CPU ( i actually don't know what i'd do with assaults lol ), logis to equipment effectiveness etc etc. On a related note now that we FINALLY! have full racial dropsuits I want to toss up the idea of changing how dropsuit command works. Instead of making it a general unlock for all suits it could be changed into a minor skill used to unlock frames for each race, EX: Dropsuit command X SP- LV1 unlocks basic light frame LV2 unlocks specialization light frame LV3 unlocks basic medium frame LV4 unlocks specialization medium frame and basic heavy LV5 unlocks specialization heavy frames and this would be spread out to each race so you would need amarr dropsuit command lv5 to use sentinal heavies and commando. I'm pretty sure we already have something to this in weapons but i'm not really discussing a full rehaul for the whole tree just the dropsuits. So in essence you would have 3 different playstyles per suit and each suit would function differently while still being flexible to run what you want to run. So a scout suit might be used more for light recon because of great eWAR and a basic could have 2 equipment slots though a slightly higher DB which wouldn't make it a go to for eWAR. But nothings stopping you from using dampners on the basic to try and mirror the eWAR on the scout and nothings stopping you from using armor mods to mirror the basic ( though it'd be less effective for scouts to do this since their specialized suits also want to mention that by each race having the skill i mean it'd loook something like this: Ammar Dropsuit Command: X SP Caldari Dropsuit Command: X SP. I don't really know what numbers i'd have behind the sp investments myself though
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 8371	Posted - 2014.04.14 11:43:00 - [160] - Quote I've been thinking about a system. Basically, all suits will have 4 equipment slots, but they will have limited bandwidth, kind of like with drones. Logistics suits would have the most bandwidth, so they could support the most amount of equipment. This would allow for active modules to be in the equipment slots without making logis god mode again. Overlord of all humans CAT MERC

Hawk-eye Occultus ARKOMBlNE 190	Posted - 2014.05.10 15:46:00 - [161] - Quote Bump. . .
JIMvc2 UNREAL WARRIORS 142	Posted - 2014.05.10 16:09:00 - [162] - Quote Racial MTAC = Awesome bring it soon !!! If you run proto gear, prepare to suffer the consequences. You've been warned.


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