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CCP I hope you'll reduce H/L slot count for Logi by Update 2.0

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Cosgar ParagonX 8439	Posted - 2013.12.07 02:26:00 - [31] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: Cosgar wrote: Alldin Kan wrote: It's time you stop posting... It's time you look at the bigger picture instead of just one suit. You don't fix what exploits broken core mechanics without fixing the broken core mechanics. Nobody complains about logis with sidearms, shotguns, plasma cannons, or any other niche weapons, they complain about logis with ARs and ScRs. Other people just complain about ARs and ScRs. See a pattern? The problem with AR is high accuracy and low kick, Scrambler rifle simply has excessive dps on Ammar suit. Core mechanics aren't the problem. Core mechanics aren't the problem? They had to nerf scout speed and strafing because of inconsistent framerate, they nerfed swarm launcher range because of draw distance, and TTK took a huge nosedive once they finally fixed hit detection. There's a plethora of examples on how issues with broken core mechanics have affected game balancing to cite, but I'd probably go past the character limit doing so. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 8440	Posted - 2013.12.07 02:29:00 - [32] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: Alldin Kan wrote: Cosgar wrote: Or they could simply fix TTK on light weapons so that sidearms and speed differences are more relevant than they aren't right now. Nerfing the current OP thing while core mechanics are still broken will just make all the tryhards flock to the next FOTM, they'll have to nerf that and the cycle will continue. It's time you stop posting... TheAmazing FlyingPig wrote: Slot counts are not the problem. Yes it is, that's where all the excessive HP/Damage comes from. The problem is how the bonuses are applied and what the applied bonus is. The 5hp/s built in armor rep on logi is a bad perk. Assault suits need assault bonuses and logi need equipment perks. Slot layout wouldn't be as big of a problem if suit perks were done better. This I can agree on. The only reason why logis even have the +1HP/s bonus was because they couldn't properly code equipment related bonuses. Actually, I'd rather they just get rid of the blanket class bonuses and give all suits 2 specific racial bonuses for more versatility. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Roger Cordill The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 149	Posted - 2013.12.07 02:29:00 - [33] - Quote Message from Godin: You. Absolute. *******. Idiot. This is not how you nerf the Logi's. A simple damage nerf and non-EWAR equipment buff would do just fine for Logi's. Gimping it's slots is never the way to fix it. EVER.
RedZer0 MK1 The Generals General Tso's Alliance 125	Posted - 2013.12.07 02:29:00 - [34] - Quote More than two damage mods are a waste. Are you saying av suits with only a swarm launchers are causing problems? You can armor tank with assault suits too. Only having one weapon is the opposite of having more firepower.
TheAmazing FlyingPig Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 4891	Posted - 2013.12.07 02:29:00 - [35] - Quote The problem is that everyone is trying to rehash the system we have now. The turd polish reference comes to mind. Slot counts cannot define a role. The reason why everyone is crying OP to the logi is due to the fact that, because it has the most slots, it's the best suit for the slayer role, being the only role on the field. Simply shifting slot counts and PG / CPU counts will only move the FotM elsewhere. Give the second link in my sig a read. Never forget How to fix the Logi
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1237	Posted - 2013.12.07 02:31:00 - [36] - Quote Cosgar wrote: ZeHealingHurts HurtingHeals wrote: This is the way to nerf my suit. Don't go and put that cap on WP again. PLEASE don't do that. Actually, they should nerf WP on militia, standard and advanced equipment to add more incentive to use prototype. I've wondered why they didn't do it like that. Militia = WP.5 Standard = WP Advanced = WP1.5 Prototype = WP*2 This would make much more sense. Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
Cosgar ParagonX 8440	Posted - 2013.12.07 02:33:00 - [37] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Cosgar wrote: ZeHealingHurts HurtingHeals wrote: This is the way to nerf my suit. Don't go and put that cap on WP again. PLEASE don't do that. Actually, they should nerf WP on militia, standard and advanced equipment to add more incentive to use prototype. I've wondered why they didn't do it like that. Militia = WP.5 Standard = WP Advanced = WP1.5 Prototype = WP*2 This would make much more sense. That's actually much better scaling than I had in mind. You should make a feedback/request topic on it. I think Cross's got locked due to inactivity. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Alldin Kan Imperfects Negative-Feedback 823	Posted - 2013.12.07 02:40:00 - [38] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Core mechanics aren't the problem? They had to nerf scout speed and strafing because of inconsistent framerate, they nerfed swarm launcher range because of draw distance, and TTK took a huge nosedive once they finally fixed hit detection. There's a plethora of examples on how issues with broken core mechanics have affected game balancing to cite, but I'd probably go past the character limit doing so. Scout "nerf" wasn't a nerf, stats were there until Min Scout came in with extra speed (6+ MS would've been crazy). Swarms deserved the nerf but as for TTK the survivalbility issue mainly lies on Dropsuit Speed (Heavy) and poorly balanced weapons. CCP, promoting exploits with every update LOL Commando LOL Plasma Cannon
Cosgar ParagonX 8440	Posted - 2013.12.07 02:46:00 - [39] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: Cosgar wrote: Core mechanics aren't the problem? They had to nerf scout speed and strafing because of inconsistent framerate, they nerfed swarm launcher range because of draw distance, and TTK took a huge nosedive once they finally fixed hit detection. There's a plethora of examples on how issues with broken core mechanics have affected game balancing to cite, but I'd probably go past the character limit doing so. Scout "nerf" wasn't a nerf, stats were there until Min Scout came in with extra speed (6+ MS would've been crazy). Swarms deserved the nerf but as for TTK the survivalbility issue mainly lies on Dropsuit Speed (Heavy) and poorly balanced weapons. Scouts out outran framerate, making them teleport across the field. All pilots complained about invisible swarms. Broken game is broken. That's why the flaylock and grenades became stupid OP after the explosion fix in 1.2. MD was deemed as OP back then but instead of putting on a nerf bandaid, they actually let the problem sort itself out after they fixed hit detection. That's what happens when you fix a core problem to something that's being exploited. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
GET ATMESON Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 187	Posted - 2013.12.07 02:56:00 - [40] - Quote Mortedeamor wrote: why not buff the assault suits high low slow count to equal the logi's and buff the pg and cpu to fit modules to them Buffing the assault suit will end up making heavys life harder. Not that CCP cares or anything. It will also make scouts life way harder. They will be one hit K.O. Thats if scouts are still around. Then CCP will have to find out how to buff heavys and the hardest thing buffing scouts. Yes i do agree buffing the assault would fix the logy problem but then that would create 2 more bigger problems after that. I personally say make it so logy suits cant use damage mods. Removing the Light weapon slot isnt an option either. Thats to strong of a nerf. That would require a respec for logys. There shouldn't be to many respecs until everything is out and the core of the game is "fixed" I dont mean any of this in a smart*** comment to you Mortedeamor. I give you respect for your idea Im just explaining why it would and wouldnt be a good idea that I think. Heavys only have 2 heavy guns. Please dont turn the NERF bat on them. Give heavys more suits or guns please :D

Alldin Kan Imperfects Negative-Feedback 828	Posted - 2013.12.07 02:56:00 - [41] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Scouts out outran framerate, making them teleport across the field. All pilots complained about invisible swarms. Broken game is broken. That's why the flaylock and grenades became stupid OP after the explosion fix in 1.2. MD was deemed as OP back then but instead of putting on a nerf bandaid, they actually let the problem sort itself out after they fixed hit detection. That's what happens when you fix a core problem to something that's being exploited. As long as hit detection was fine, I NEVER had issues hitting a scout. Some things can be fixed together core mechanics but other stuff like Logi suits will remain the same regardless of how you tweak Core Mechanics. Before giving Assaults offensive bonuses, Heavies need a buff for HMG range/accuracy over distance and scouts need to get cloaking (too bad the poor framerate+lighting will actually make this OP). CCP, promoting exploits with every update LOL Commando LOL Plasma Cannon
Alldin Kan Imperfects Negative-Feedback 828	Posted - 2013.12.07 02:58:00 - [42] - Quote GET ATMESON wrote: Mortedeamor wrote: why not buff the assault suits high low slow count to equal the logi's and buff the pg and cpu to fit modules to them Buffing the assault suit will end up making heavys life harder. Not that CCP cares or anything. It will also make scouts life way harder. They will be one hit K.O. Thats if scouts are still around. Then CCP will have to find out how to buff heavys and the hardest thing buffing scouts. Yes i do agree buffing the assault would fix the logy problem but then that would create 2 more bigger problems after that. I personally say make it so logy suits cant use damage mods. Removing the Light weapon slot isnt an option either. Thats to strong of a nerf. That would require a respec for logys. There shouldn't be to many respecs until everything is out and the core of the game is "fixed" I dont mean any of this in a smart*** comment to you Mortedeamor. I give you respect for your idea Im just explaining why it would and wouldnt be a good idea that I think. I made previous post without looking at yours, we think alike... CCP, promoting exploits with every update LOL Commando LOL Plasma Cannon
GET ATMESON Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 187	Posted - 2013.12.07 03:00:00 - [43] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: GET ATMESON wrote: Mortedeamor wrote: why not buff the assault suits high low slow count to equal the logi's and buff the pg and cpu to fit modules to them Buffing the assault suit will end up making heavys life harder. Not that CCP cares or anything. It will also make scouts life way harder. They will be one hit K.O. Thats if scouts are still around. Then CCP will have to find out how to buff heavys and the hardest thing buffing scouts. Yes i do agree buffing the assault would fix the logy problem but then that would create 2 more bigger problems after that. I personally say make it so logy suits cant use damage mods. Removing the Light weapon slot isnt an option either. Thats to strong of a nerf. That would require a respec for logys. There shouldn't be to many respecs until everything is out and the core of the game is "fixed" I dont mean any of this in a smart*** comment to you Mortedeamor. I give you respect for your idea Im just explaining why it would and wouldnt be a good idea that I think. I made previous post without looking at yours, we think alike... We sure do then. I think it would be a way easier,efficient, and faster to do then reading so much into the logy suit. Heavys only have 2 heavy guns. Please dont turn the NERF bat on them. Give heavys more suits or guns please :D
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 2857	Posted - 2013.12.07 03:07:00 - [44] - Quote Cosgar wrote: ZeHealingHurts HurtingHeals wrote: This is the way to nerf my suit. Don't go and put that cap on WP again. PLEASE don't do that. Actually, they should nerf WP on militia, standard and advanced equipment to add more incentive to use prototype. Please no, that's like getting more WPs for killing with proto gear. Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 2 STB-Infantry (Demolition)
Cosgar ParagonX 8444	Posted - 2013.12.07 03:11:00 - [45] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: Cosgar wrote: Scouts out outran framerate, making them teleport across the field. All pilots complained about invisible swarms. Broken game is broken. That's why the flaylock and grenades became stupid OP after the explosion fix in 1.2. MD was deemed as OP back then but instead of putting on a nerf bandaid, they actually let the problem sort itself out after they fixed hit detection. That's what happens when you fix a core problem to something that's being exploited. As long as hit detection was fine, I NEVER had issues hitting a scout. Some things can be fixed together core mechanics but other stuff like Logi suits will remain the same regardless of how you tweak Core Mechanics. If anything, be it logi or otherwise has to be nerfed, do it before you fix core mechanics. Prime example for the would be the Flaylock. It was rather balanced at standard/ADV, but got stupid overpowered at proto, this was only after the splash damage fix in 1.2. Before that, it suffered from the same desynch issues as the MD. Now I'm not saying they didn't need to work on the Flaylock, but do you think they would have brought down the nerf hammer so hard had they managed to fix hit detection in 1.3? Alldin Kan wrote: Before giving Assaults offensive bonuses, Heavies need a buff for HMG range/accuracy over distance and scouts need to get cloaking (too bad the poor framerate+lighting] will actually make this OP). First off, the underline portion just proved my point. With CCP in their little bandaid fix mood, if cloaking came out and was OP because of framerate, we'd have yet another overnerfed game mechanic on our hands. They'd probably have to put Shotty, Maken, and Ghost Kaiser on suicide watch if this happened. Anyway, back to my point of isolating this quote. Assaults do need work, we can agree on this. Maybe not just bonuses, but something to reinforce what should make them better than logistics while making them worth the SP investment. GIve Caldari/Minmatar more base shields, Gallente more base armor, a little of both for Amarr and some valid drawbacks. Logis are more module health/healing module reliant, so the assaults should be less reliant, allowing them to focus more on damage mods or other modules for versatility. We could actually do this before fixing core mechanics since assaults really aren't worth skilling up level 3 in medium frames aside from 2 bonuses, an ISK discount and a white coat of paint. Even the sentinel gets a different slot layout compared to heavies. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Alldin Kan Imperfects Negative-Feedback 828	Posted - 2013.12.07 03:24:00 - [46] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Now I'm not saying they didn't need to work on the Flaylock, but do you think they would have brought down the nerf hammer so hard had they managed to fix hit detection in 1.3? The RoF together with high damage was easily able to rip apart my best fit in a short time so the nerf was just right with the exception on tighter blast radius (2m is fine without bonus to radius). Rest of post seemed ok, am now looking at the nightmare in Uprising 1.7 PN thread. CCP, promoting exploits with every update LOL Commando LOL Plasma Cannon
Cosgar ParagonX 8444	Posted - 2013.12.07 03:32:00 - [47] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: Cosgar wrote: Now I'm not saying they didn't need to work on the Flaylock, but do you think they would have brought down the nerf hammer so hard had they managed to fix hit detection in 1.3? The RoF together with high damage was easily able to rip apart my best fit in a short time so the nerf was just right with the exception on tighter blast radius (2m is fine without bonus to radius). Rest of post seemed ok, am now looking at the nightmare in Uprising 1.7 PN thread. If we start getting into how to balance the flaylock we're just getting into semantics. But I do agree that the high RoF was the biggest problem, the extremely low fitting cost was another. Blast radius was high for the same reason why the Chromosone MD and locus grenades have a high radius: splash damage not registering properly. This entire game is balanced around compensating for something inconsistent when your really think about it. I'd be interested to see what would happen if they took all the current content we have now, but roll everything back to an earlier build like E3 or Replication. I'd bet ISK that there'd be a drastic improvement. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
rebecca watson OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 79	Posted - 2013.12.07 06:59:00 - [48] - Quote After reading many of these threads: I think logi's need a wee nerf. I have been saying to my corp-mates for awhile that a slot nerf would be good. I also think the +5 armor hp/s (@5) is unneccesary. I also like the idea of equipment bonuses to the logi suit, or equipment fitting/stats nerfs on other suits. 1. I run logi suit exclusively. 2. I mostly run slayer/assault role, with uplink and nanohive/remote. -taking advantage of the huge utility of the suit. 3. about 5% of the time i run actual triage, when corp or squadmates request, usually because there are many other logi's offering reps and such simply for wp's Why nerf logi and not just buff assault? I look at assaults, and their sad slot layout and bonuses, and feel sad. However, I see heavies melt under even my own fire, and feel sad. When I get the chance to see a scout that had the poor luck to not kill me on the first go, i simply backpedal and hipfire them down easy mode. And am sad. *********************************************************************** If all of the other classes seem to need a buff, it's probably my own suit that needs a nerf. Currently the logi suit can do too many things very well, taking 1 or two slots off here and there along w the corresponding pg/cpu will force the fits to compromise, currently we can eat all of the cakes.
nor asha Turbo Bros inc. 58	Posted - 2013.12.07 07:25:00 - [49] - Quote Cosgar wrote: nor asha wrote: All proto logis should get 2 less slots and a free fitting bonus to fit equipment in the 3/4 lows The logis with only 3 equipment should have more H/L slots than the other logis that's just fair. Heavy suits and scouts should get more slots. All logis have the same slot count across the tiers with more or less module/equipment slots to reflect that already. Amarr is the only one with one less because of the sidearm. See I find this strange. On other suits the equipment slots trade off for two slots in the highs/lows. Only logis don't
Cosgar ParagonX 8462	Posted - 2013.12.07 07:29:00 - [50] - Quote nor asha wrote: Cosgar wrote: nor asha wrote: All proto logis should get 2 less slots and a free fitting bonus to fit equipment in the 3/4 lows The logis with only 3 equipment should have more H/L slots than the other logis that's just fair. Heavy suits and scouts should get more slots. All logis have the same slot count across the tiers with more or less module/equipment slots to reflect that already. Amarr is the only one with one less because of the sidearm. See I find this strange. On other suits the equipment slots trade off for two slots in the highs/lows. Only logis don't Base HP, speed, stamina, and a sidearm are traded for those slots. (Amarr gets 1 less because they keep their sidearm) Unfortunately none of those disadvantages really matter because light weapons are way too effective and speed tanking died in 1.4. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"

Tectonic Fusion 681	Posted - 2013.12.08 00:43:00 - [51] - Quote GET ATMESON wrote: Mortedeamor wrote: why not buff the assault suits high low slow count to equal the logi's and buff the pg and cpu to fit modules to them Buffing the assault suit will end up making heavys life harder. Not that CCP cares or anything. It will also make scouts life way harder. They will be one hit K.O. Thats if scouts are still around. Then CCP will have to find out how to buff heavys and the hardest thing buffing scouts. Yes i do agree buffing the assault would fix the logy problem but then that would create 2 more bigger problems after that. I personally say make it so logy suits cant use damage mods. Removing the Light weapon slot isnt an option either. Thats to strong of a nerf. That would require a respec for logys. There shouldn't be to many respecs until everything is out and the core of the game is "fixed" I dont mean any of this in a smart* comment to you Mortedeamor. I give you respect for your idea Im just explaining why it would and wouldnt be a good idea that I think. If it were up to me I would buff assaults, scouts, AND heavys. Solo Player Squad status: Locked**
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 2177	Posted - 2013.12.08 01:08:00 - [52] - Quote Nerf the logi suits...ridiculous that they can have all of that health. And I have a proto logi suit, btw. weRideNDie2getha since 2010


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