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CCP I hope you'll reduce H/L slot count for Logi by Update 2.0

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Cosgar ParagonX 8434	Posted - 2013.12.07 01:30:00 - [1] - Quote Or they could wimpy fix TTK on light weapons so that sidearms and speed differences are more relevant than they aren't right now. Nerfing the current OP thing while core mechanics are still broken will just make all the tryhards flock to the next FOTM, they'll have to nerf that and the cycle will continue. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 8434	Posted - 2013.12.07 01:34:00 - [2] - Quote ZeHealingHurts HurtingHeals wrote: This is the way to nerf my suit. Don't go and put that cap on WP again. PLEASE don't do that. Actually, they should nerf WP on militia, standard and advanced equipment to add more incentive to use prototype. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 8434	Posted - 2013.12.07 01:40:00 - [3] - Quote nor asha wrote: All proto logis should get 2 less slots and a free fitting bonus to fit equipment in the 3/4 lows The logis with only 3 equipment should have more H/L slots than the other logis that's just fair. Heavy suits and scouts should get more slots. All logis have the same slot count across the tiers with more or less module/equipment slots to reflect that already. Amarr is the only one with one less because of the sidearm. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 8434	Posted - 2013.12.07 01:53:00 - [4] - Quote God Hates Lags wrote: Cosgar wrote: ZeHealingHurts HurtingHeals wrote: This is the way to nerf my suit. Don't go and put that cap on WP again. PLEASE don't do that. Actually, they should nerf WP on militia, standard and advanced equipment to add more incentive to use prototype. No. WP should be awarded for effectively using equipment be it militia or proto, not for using better equipment in general. The increased effectiveness of pro to equipment should be its own reward. With the exception of triage hives and the core repper (which actually prorate triage points) prototype equipment actually gets less WP rewards. The proto injector gets rarely used because of this. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 8434	Posted - 2013.12.07 01:57:00 - [5] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: It's time you stop posting... It's time you look at the bigger picture instead of just one suit. You don't fix what exploits broken core mechanics without fixing the broken core mechanics. Nobody complains about logis with sidearms, shotguns, plasma cannons, or any other niche weapons, they complain about logis with ARs and ScRs. Other people just complain about ARs and ScRs. See a pattern? I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 8437	Posted - 2013.12.07 02:17:00 - [6] - Quote Mortedeamor wrote: Cosgar wrote: God Hates Lags wrote: Cosgar wrote: ZeHealingHurts HurtingHeals wrote: This is the way to nerf my suit. Don't go and put that cap on WP again. PLEASE don't do that. Actually, they should nerf WP on militia, standard and advanced equipment to add more incentive to use prototype. No. WP should be awarded for effectively using equipment be it militia or proto, not for using better equipment in general. The increased effectiveness of pro to equipment should be its own reward. With the exception of triage hives and the core repper (which actually prorate triage points) prototype equipment actually gets less WP rewards. The proto injector gets rarely used because of this. true logi's use proto injector and dont care about wp but the safe revive That throws off risk/reward ratio. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 8439	Posted - 2013.12.07 02:26:00 - [7] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: Cosgar wrote: Alldin Kan wrote: It's time you stop posting... It's time you look at the bigger picture instead of just one suit. You don't fix what exploits broken core mechanics without fixing the broken core mechanics. Nobody complains about logis with sidearms, shotguns, plasma cannons, or any other niche weapons, they complain about logis with ARs and ScRs. Other people just complain about ARs and ScRs. See a pattern? The problem with AR is high accuracy and low kick, Scrambler rifle simply has excessive dps on Ammar suit. Core mechanics aren't the problem. Core mechanics aren't the problem? They had to nerf scout speed and strafing because of inconsistent framerate, they nerfed swarm launcher range because of draw distance, and TTK took a huge nosedive once they finally fixed hit detection. There's a plethora of examples on how issues with broken core mechanics have affected game balancing to cite, but I'd probably go past the character limit doing so. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 8440	Posted - 2013.12.07 02:29:00 - [8] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: Alldin Kan wrote: Cosgar wrote: Or they could simply fix TTK on light weapons so that sidearms and speed differences are more relevant than they aren't right now. Nerfing the current OP thing while core mechanics are still broken will just make all the tryhards flock to the next FOTM, they'll have to nerf that and the cycle will continue. It's time you stop posting... TheAmazing FlyingPig wrote: Slot counts are not the problem. Yes it is, that's where all the excessive HP/Damage comes from. The problem is how the bonuses are applied and what the applied bonus is. The 5hp/s built in armor rep on logi is a bad perk. Assault suits need assault bonuses and logi need equipment perks. Slot layout wouldn't be as big of a problem if suit perks were done better. This I can agree on. The only reason why logis even have the +1HP/s bonus was because they couldn't properly code equipment related bonuses. Actually, I'd rather they just get rid of the blanket class bonuses and give all suits 2 specific racial bonuses for more versatility. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 8440	Posted - 2013.12.07 02:33:00 - [9] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Cosgar wrote: ZeHealingHurts HurtingHeals wrote: This is the way to nerf my suit. Don't go and put that cap on WP again. PLEASE don't do that. Actually, they should nerf WP on militia, standard and advanced equipment to add more incentive to use prototype. I've wondered why they didn't do it like that. Militia = WP.5 Standard = WP Advanced = WP1.5 Prototype = WP*2 This would make much more sense. That's actually much better scaling than I had in mind. You should make a feedback/request topic on it. I think Cross's got locked due to inactivity. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 8440	Posted - 2013.12.07 02:46:00 - [10] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: Cosgar wrote: Core mechanics aren't the problem? They had to nerf scout speed and strafing because of inconsistent framerate, they nerfed swarm launcher range because of draw distance, and TTK took a huge nosedive once they finally fixed hit detection. There's a plethora of examples on how issues with broken core mechanics have affected game balancing to cite, but I'd probably go past the character limit doing so. Scout "nerf" wasn't a nerf, stats were there until Min Scout came in with extra speed (6+ MS would've been crazy). Swarms deserved the nerf but as for TTK the survivalbility issue mainly lies on Dropsuit Speed (Heavy) and poorly balanced weapons. Scouts out outran framerate, making them teleport across the field. All pilots complained about invisible swarms. Broken game is broken. That's why the flaylock and grenades became stupid OP after the explosion fix in 1.2. MD was deemed as OP back then but instead of putting on a nerf bandaid, they actually let the problem sort itself out after they fixed hit detection. That's what happens when you fix a core problem to something that's being exploited. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"

Cosgar ParagonX 8444	Posted - 2013.12.07 03:11:00 - [11] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: Cosgar wrote: Scouts out outran framerate, making them teleport across the field. All pilots complained about invisible swarms. Broken game is broken. That's why the flaylock and grenades became stupid OP after the explosion fix in 1.2. MD was deemed as OP back then but instead of putting on a nerf bandaid, they actually let the problem sort itself out after they fixed hit detection. That's what happens when you fix a core problem to something that's being exploited. As long as hit detection was fine, I NEVER had issues hitting a scout. Some things can be fixed together core mechanics but other stuff like Logi suits will remain the same regardless of how you tweak Core Mechanics. If anything, be it logi or otherwise has to be nerfed, do it before you fix core mechanics. Prime example for the would be the Flaylock. It was rather balanced at standard/ADV, but got stupid overpowered at proto, this was only after the splash damage fix in 1.2. Before that, it suffered from the same desynch issues as the MD. Now I'm not saying they didn't need to work on the Flaylock, but do you think they would have brought down the nerf hammer so hard had they managed to fix hit detection in 1.3? Alldin Kan wrote: Before giving Assaults offensive bonuses, Heavies need a buff for HMG range/accuracy over distance and scouts need to get cloaking (too bad the poor framerate+lighting] will actually make this OP). First off, the underline portion just proved my point. With CCP in their little bandaid fix mood, if cloaking came out and was OP because of framerate, we'd have yet another overnerfed game mechanic on our hands. They'd probably have to put Shotty, Maken, and Ghost Kaiser on suicide watch if this happened. Anyway, back to my point of isolating this quote. Assaults do need work, we can agree on this. Maybe not just bonuses, but something to reinforce what should make them better than logistics while making them worth the SP investment. GIve Caldari/Minmatar more base shields, Gallente more base armor, a little of both for Amarr and some valid drawbacks. Logis are more module health/healing module reliant, so the assaults should be less reliant, allowing them to focus more on damage mods or other modules for versatility. We could actually do this before fixing core mechanics since assaults really aren't worth skilling up level 3 in medium frames aside from 2 bonuses, an ISK discount and a white coat of paint. Even the sentinel gets a different slot layout compared to heavies. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 8444	Posted - 2013.12.07 03:32:00 - [12] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: Cosgar wrote: Now I'm not saying they didn't need to work on the Flaylock, but do you think they would have brought down the nerf hammer so hard had they managed to fix hit detection in 1.3? The RoF together with high damage was easily able to rip apart my best fit in a short time so the nerf was just right with the exception on tighter blast radius (2m is fine without bonus to radius). Rest of post seemed ok, am now looking at the nightmare in Uprising 1.7 PN thread. If we start getting into how to balance the flaylock we're just getting into semantics. But I do agree that the high RoF was the biggest problem, the extremely low fitting cost was another. Blast radius was high for the same reason why the Chromosone MD and locus grenades have a high radius: splash damage not registering properly. This entire game is balanced around compensating for something inconsistent when your really think about it. I'd be interested to see what would happen if they took all the current content we have now, but roll everything back to an earlier build like E3 or Replication. I'd bet ISK that there'd be a drastic improvement. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 8462	Posted - 2013.12.07 07:29:00 - [13] - Quote nor asha wrote: Cosgar wrote: nor asha wrote: All proto logis should get 2 less slots and a free fitting bonus to fit equipment in the 3/4 lows The logis with only 3 equipment should have more H/L slots than the other logis that's just fair. Heavy suits and scouts should get more slots. All logis have the same slot count across the tiers with more or less module/equipment slots to reflect that already. Amarr is the only one with one less because of the sidearm. See I find this strange. On other suits the equipment slots trade off for two slots in the highs/lows. Only logis don't Base HP, speed, stamina, and a sidearm are traded for those slots. (Amarr gets 1 less because they keep their sidearm) Unfortunately none of those disadvantages really matter because light weapons are way too effective and speed tanking died in 1.4. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"

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