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Xaviah Reaper
Nyain San Renegade Alliance
186
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Posted - 2013.12.06 14:23:00 -
[1] - Quote
As it currently stands, new players who play their first game have pretty much 'all' said they love dust 514. but by their third game out of academy, 90% of them quit.
we NEED tiers!
step 1. split battle tiers by using gear as a guideline. std vs std. std>adv vs adv. std>pro vs pro.
step 2. split vehicles between tiers. militia > std. militia/basic > adv. militia/basic/pro > pro
step 3. increase SP rewards for the low gear tiers compared to the high tier battles so people than joined dust 514 late can catch up to the beta players. depending on total SP, your reward will slightly decrease for low tiers and increase for higher tiers. You do the maths cause i cant.
step 4. Introduce new tiers past prototype and keep expanding the end game content to keep your long term players happy and interested.
I think this will drastically improve the quantity of long term players, and will keep dust 514 exciting and 'FAIR'. However, there are obviously some people who create new characters that have been playing since beta, and want to play with their friends who are well seasoned to dust514. So if they want to join their mates in higher tiers they can do so with whatever gear they want to wear. but if their well seasoned friends want to join lower tier games, then the proto gear suits they have are red ( as if they were out of stock) and wont be accessible throughout the game. Not only will this encourage people to continue buying all tiers of gear, but it will spread out all the best players and will even the playing field! thank you!
Best game with a Python: 33 kills 1 death - Domination
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Draco Cerberus
Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic
569
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Posted - 2013.12.06 16:02:00 -
[2] - Quote
Battle Academy should be lengthened to 20,000 to 50,000 WP, not tiered. How would we find new recruits for corporations if all battles were tiered? This is a much promoted bad idea.
LogiGod earns his pips
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Samoset Detrium
G.R.A.V.E
0
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Posted - 2013.12.06 16:19:00 -
[3] - Quote
Draco Cerberus wrote:Battle Academy should be lengthened to 20,000 to 50,000 WP, not tiered. How would we find new recruits for corporations if all battles were tiered? This is a much promoted bad idea.
That could be agreed on as far as a war point total to get out, that would give the newberries time enough to earn enough sp and get somewhere. It wont be much, but if they know what they are doing, they can have at least either a proto suit or a few advanced and maybe a proto weapon out of the academy. You could still search for new recruits in the game types as well if you want to take it a step further and grade their performance based on the Tier type to their performance in match. That's how I ended up being with O.T.F for a little while because one of the directors found me doing better than him in a likewise half advanced suit. He had a much better SP count of course, but when it comes to having an equal playing ground (semi equal anyways, Skill boosts and all)) You should be able to tell who has the skill out of the rest. :) |
Draco Cerberus
Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic
569
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Posted - 2013.12.06 17:00:00 -
[4] - Quote
Samoset Detrium wrote:Draco Cerberus wrote:Battle Academy should be lengthened to 20,000 to 50,000 WP, not tiered. How would we find new recruits for corporations if all battles were tiered? This is a much promoted bad idea. That could be agreed on as far as a war point total to get out, that would give the newberries time enough to earn enough sp and get somewhere. It wont be much, but if they know what they are doing, they can have at least either a proto suit or a few advanced and maybe a proto weapon out of the academy. You could still search for new recruits in the game types as well if you want to take it a step further and grade their performance based on the Tier type to their performance in match. That's how I ended up being with O.T.F for a little while because one of the directors found me doing better than him in a likewise half advanced suit. He had a much better SP count of course, but when it comes to having an equal playing ground (semi equal anyways, Skill boosts and all)) You should be able to tell who has the skill out of the rest. :) While I share the frustration of newberries not having the SP to go against other proto level players I find that the smart ones will do what they need to to survive longer and the smarter ones still will run starter fits until there is a reason to run something other than their cheap stuff. Complete matches by furthering team goals and still do well on wp because hacking, couterhacking and getting assists and finishing kills will still earn WP.
Getting paired with proto players will often teach new guys the ropes quite quickly. I advocate a basic knowledge as to what to do, and don't think that 20-50k SP is going to be enough to proto a suit or weapon but do think it is quite possibly enough to understand what to do in game to get further ahead when joining matches against protobears and militia pub stompers alike.
LogiGod earns his pips
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Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
369
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Posted - 2013.12.06 17:05:00 -
[5] - Quote
Draco Cerberus wrote:Getting paired with proto players will often teach new guys the ropes quite quickly. Good thought. Since non-tiered matches between vets and newbies are so successful in Dust I think they should introduce the same mechanic in Eve online. I'm sure the devs of Eve online will respond very well to removing Concord from that game. The community is going to love it and new player retention will surely improve! |
Samoset Detrium
G.R.A.V.E
1
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Posted - 2013.12.06 17:21:00 -
[6] - Quote
[quote=Draco Cerberus]
Getting paired with proto players will often teach new guys the ropes quite quickly. I advocate a basic knowledge as to what to do, and don't think that 20-50k SP is going to be enough to proto a suit or weapon [quote]
Its not the SP, its the WP total, we get 6k SP just for signing in every day for the maximum amount of days, let alone how many war points we earn. I get roughly 2Xs my SP reward if not more than my WP gain per match, and if we total that up to at least 20k war points, you might be able to get at least one thing proto'd out in the allotted manner ((please check me on that, math and all))
And even if we as a whole are smart enough to not waste our suits in a completely one sided match, what can we gain out of that? the return would be far less when more than half the time, we can barely get a successful hack in, let alone try and snipe with militia grade weaponry or similar basic weaponry. We wont advance as fast as the stompers would, they would stay on top of their game for far longer than we could catch up, and all it will do is deter people from playing to begin with when you cant do anything to help yourself realistically except save money for suits you still wont be able to use effectively against proto stompers for a long while yet. |
abarkrishna
warravens
124
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Posted - 2013.12.06 17:29:00 -
[7] - Quote
20,000- 50,000 wp is a small amount. How much SP do you really think a player is going to get in 20- 50 games? It is not hard to get more than 1000 WP a game.
Also when 1.6 was released and the changes to the academy I thought i would make anew char. ! game later and I was back facing the same proto squads with 15 million+ SP and then there was me with 505,000 SP.
Something needs to get done.
No you kill this blueberry hacking the CRU we are camping. I already killed the last 2.
When will they learn!
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abarkrishna
warravens
124
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Posted - 2013.12.06 17:32:00 -
[8] - Quote
Draco Cerberus wrote:Samoset Detrium wrote:Draco Cerberus wrote:Battle Academy should be lengthened to 20,000 to 50,000 WP, not tiered. How would we find new recruits for corporations if all battles were tiered? This is a much promoted bad idea. That could be agreed on as far as a war point total to get out, that would give the newberries time enough to earn enough sp and get somewhere. It wont be much, but if they know what they are doing, they can have at least either a proto suit or a few advanced and maybe a proto weapon out of the academy. You could still search for new recruits in the game types as well if you want to take it a step further and grade their performance based on the Tier type to their performance in match. That's how I ended up being with O.T.F for a little while because one of the directors found me doing better than him in a likewise half advanced suit. He had a much better SP count of course, but when it comes to having an equal playing ground (semi equal anyways, Skill boosts and all)) You should be able to tell who has the skill out of the rest. :) While I share the frustration of newberries not having the SP to go against other proto level players I find that the smart ones will do what they need to to survive longer and the smarter ones still will run starter fits until there is a reason to run something other than their cheap stuff. Complete matches by furthering team goals and still do well on wp because hacking, couterhacking and getting assists and finishing kills will still earn WP. Getting paired with proto players will often teach new guys the ropes quite quickly. I advocate a basic knowledge as to what to do, and don't think that 20-50k SP is going to be enough to proto a suit or weapon but do think it is quite possibly enough to understand what to do in game to get further ahead when joining matches against protobears and militia pub stompers alike.
You mean like 10 snipers in one game while your squad is the only one who does something. SUUUUUURE
No you kill this blueberry hacking the CRU we are camping. I already killed the last 2.
When will they learn!
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Lt Royal
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
2156
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Posted - 2013.12.06 19:31:00 -
[9] - Quote
Agreed; We had a match of Domination last night, where the matchmaking worked really well but with a twist!
We were dropped into a Domination 6 vs 6, (which after that intense game I think this should be a gamemode) anyway, we had a blueberry join our squad and he was telling us on coms how this was his first game out of the academy and that all he did in the academy was kill about 5 people and that was that!
Luckily he had coms and we had a free squad slot open otherwise I really do believe he would have quit the game there and then because that match was REALLY brutal (but fun).
Matchmaking sorted out or a longer Academy with more tutorials.
Gÿ£GÿàGÿP Test Alliance Best Alliance Gÿ£GÿàGÿP
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deepfried salad gilliam
Sanguine Knights
228
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Posted - 2013.12.06 23:19:00 -
[10] - Quote
Newbs love the game till they leave academy
Christ is lord
Sanguine knights , open recruitment, join now.
Fear is a choice, I choose not to let it control me.
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Samoset Detrium
G.R.A.V.E
2
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Posted - 2013.12.07 02:46:00 -
[11] - Quote
Lt Royal wrote:Agreed; We had a match of Domination last night, where the matchmaking worked really well but with a twist!
We were dropped into a Domination 6 vs 6, (which after that intense game I think this should be a gamemode) anyway, we had a blueberry join our squad and he was telling us on coms how this was his first game out of the academy and that all he did in the academy was kill about 5 people and that was that!
Luckily he had coms and we had a free squad slot open otherwise I really do believe he would have quit the game there and then because that match was REALLY brutal (but fun).
Matchmaking sorted out or a longer Academy with more tutorials.
I feel that both of those ideas if they could be implemented would be the best course of action. Right now the only thing that can stop people from leaving the game is other players stepping way out of their way to keep player retention on the positive. the tutorials are good, and there are plenty of people who wouldn't mind giving advice or suggestions, its just the short amount of time that the new players have to actually practice before they get thrown into nearly impossible matches. If you keep them in the academy longer, that will help yes, but it wont do much more than that once they get out of the Academy and get into one sided match-ups. Give them a proper chance to actually have fun and practice like they do in the academy and I guarantee you we will see more players. |
Xaviah Reaper
Nyain San Renegade Alliance
191
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Posted - 2013.12.07 04:03:00 -
[12] - Quote
right, so EEEEEVERYBODY agrees that SOMETHING needs to be done about the academy / low SP vs high SP / imbalance etc needs to be done?
so where is CCP D:
C C P!!! COME AND REED DIS! ITS gewd shturff
Best game with a Python: 33 kills 1 death - Domination
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KalOfTheRathi
Nec Tributis
922
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 11:40:00 -
[13] - Quote
Ain't gonna happen.
There is no mechanism in the Battle Finder to resolve any of the issues that you, accurately, pointed out.
There is no matchmaking in DUST.
There is none in EVE beyond the security levels as far as I can tell (non-EVE player). There is nothing to prevent PvP scams, ganking and other villainy. Because that is how New Eden functions. Ganking Paradise.
From a more boring technical standpoint we have an amazing lack of information.
How many Mercs are actively waiting for battles? Per battle type and per FW race as well.
There would need to be some limit on what people can use in a match, maybe not but that is what has been requested since the BETA. For example: Proto and Vehicles have been repeatedly asked to be set as either on or off. An all Proto match or a no-Proto match would be the hoped for battle.
Or they could limit battle choices on any of: Total WP, total SP, allocated SP (since we know total and unallocated that should be easy).
Make a weekly adjustment until some of the QQ subsides and/or the New Berries continue playing the game.
Also, if there is enough AUR being purchased ... frankly CCP/Shanghai (and CCP/Mothership) probably won't care.
I would like to start choosing maps. As it is now, from certain positions I just Leave Battle. Why bother when the map position is this bad? mAnus Peak from the South.
Welcome to DUST. |
Draco Cerberus
Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic
582
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 15:45:00 -
[14] - Quote
Stefan Stahl wrote:Draco Cerberus wrote:Getting paired with proto players will often teach new guys the ropes quite quickly. Good thought. Since non-tiered matches between vets and newbies are so successful in Dust I think they should introduce the same mechanic in Eve online. I'm sure the devs of Eve online will respond very well to removing Concord from that game. The community is going to love it and new player retention will surely improve! New players in Eve as low SP as a 3 month old character can be flying interceptors and making a difference in NULL sec. Concorde has nothing to do with it. BTW Concorde interacts with Old players just like New players. Empire control of High Sec has Concorde in place. What would happen if Null brawlers decided to come north of the -0.1 Systems and declare war on the Empires?
LogiGod earns his pips
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Draco Cerberus
Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic
582
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 15:48:00 -
[15] - Quote
abarkrishna wrote:Draco Cerberus wrote:Samoset Detrium wrote:Draco Cerberus wrote:Battle Academy should be lengthened to 20,000 to 50,000 WP, not tiered. How would we find new recruits for corporations if all battles were tiered? This is a much promoted bad idea. That could be agreed on as far as a war point total to get out, that would give the newberries time enough to earn enough sp and get somewhere. It wont be much, but if they know what they are doing, they can have at least either a proto suit or a few advanced and maybe a proto weapon out of the academy. You could still search for new recruits in the game types as well if you want to take it a step further and grade their performance based on the Tier type to their performance in match. That's how I ended up being with O.T.F for a little while because one of the directors found me doing better than him in a likewise half advanced suit. He had a much better SP count of course, but when it comes to having an equal playing ground (semi equal anyways, Skill boosts and all)) You should be able to tell who has the skill out of the rest. :) While I share the frustration of newberries not having the SP to go against other proto level players I find that the smart ones will do what they need to to survive longer and the smarter ones still will run starter fits until there is a reason to run something other than their cheap stuff. Complete matches by furthering team goals and still do well on wp because hacking, couterhacking and getting assists and finishing kills will still earn WP. Getting paired with proto players will often teach new guys the ropes quite quickly. I advocate a basic knowledge as to what to do, and don't think that 20-50k SP is going to be enough to proto a suit or weapon but do think it is quite possibly enough to understand what to do in game to get further ahead when joining matches against protobears and militia pub stompers alike. You mean like 10 snipers in one game while your squad is the only one who does something. SUUUUUURE Haha you sound like you think that you are the only one this has happened to. Some noobs will join squads, talk to people on team chat, you never know, heck one day I found a 14 year old who although he had some issues with keeping coms clear, was able to run with the squad just fine, said his toon was 2 months old.
LogiGod earns his pips
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Draco Cerberus
Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic
582
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 15:51:00 -
[16] - Quote
KalOfTheRathi wrote:Ain't gonna happen. There is no mechanism in the Battle Finder to resolve any of the issues that you, accurately, pointed out. There is no matchmaking in DUST. There is none in EVE beyond the security levels as far as I can tell (non-EVE player). There is nothing to prevent PvP scams, ganking and other villainy. Because that is how New Eden functions. Ganking Paradise. From a more boring technical standpoint we have an amazing lack of information. How many Mercs are actively waiting for battles? Per battle type and per FW race as well. There would need to be some limit on what people can use in a match, maybe not but that is what has been requested since the BETA. For example: Proto and Vehicles have been repeatedly asked to be set as either on or off. An all Proto match or a no-Proto match would be the hoped for battle. Or they could limit battle choices on any of: Total WP, total SP, allocated SP (since we know total and unallocated that should be easy). Make a weekly adjustment until some of the QQ subsides and/or the New Berries continue playing the game. Also, if there is enough AUR being purchased ... frankly CCP/Shanghai (and CCP/Mothership) probably won't care. I would like to start choosing maps. As it is now, from certain positions I just Leave Battle. Why bother when the map position is this bad? mAnus Peak from the South. Welcome to DUST. If I want to use my Cynabal to gank you in High Sec I will, especially if you fit your Hulk like GameMeister.
LogiGod earns his pips
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Thorn Badblood
Dust2Dust. Top Men.
84
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Posted - 2013.12.07 16:46:00 -
[17] - Quote
OR you could make academy last until you have 2-3 mil SP.
D2D. A Non-Prophet Organization
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Xaviah Reaper
Nyain San Renegade Alliance
193
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Posted - 2013.12.08 19:43:00 -
[18] - Quote
Thorn Badblood wrote:OR you could make academy last until you have 2-3 mil SP.
It just needs to be tiered out and game match making introduced
Best game with a Python: 33 kills 1 death - Domination
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Draco Cerberus
Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic
585
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Posted - 2013.12.08 21:44:00 -
[19] - Quote
Thorn Badblood wrote:OR you could make academy last until you have 2-3 mil SP. The only issue with this is the fact that you can let a toon sit and accumulate SP without playing Dust at all, come back and have 10mil SP and still not know what to do.
LogiGod earns his pips
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Draco Cerberus
Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic
585
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Posted - 2013.12.08 21:46:00 -
[20] - Quote
Xaviah Reaper wrote:Thorn Badblood wrote:OR you could make academy last until you have 2-3 mil SP. It just needs to be tiered out and game match making introduced Kill Scotty, then let the rest of us sort out on our own where and who we are fighting, no matchmaking, no lobby, just wander the planets and find things to do, people to kill and loot to salvage based on what we kill, add a salvage tool for logibros, and find someone a soother and a blanket for people getting butt hurt by proto bears, there are plenty of ways to kill them.
LogiGod earns his pips
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Jooki Chewaka
Stalking Wolfpack
26
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Posted - 2013.12.08 21:50:00 -
[21] - Quote
I think that the most reasonable way is just forget about tiers and WP and include another filter, where you chose which match you want, normal, advanced or proto, and on this matches only this gear is allowed.
I've got 12m sp, but i only use militia BPOs, would i be overpowered playing only in normal gear matches?
See you from orbit
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Draco Cerberus
Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic
585
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Posted - 2013.12.08 21:56:00 -
[22] - Quote
Jooki Chewaka wrote:I think that the most reasonable way is just forget about tiers and WP and include another filter, where you chose which match you want, normal, advanced or proto, and on this matches only this gear is allowed.
I've got 12m sp, but i only use militia BPOs, would i be overpowered playing only in normal gear matches? I have proven more than once that in the hands of a skilled operator even a Militia AR can and is Lethal to most who are lower level of skills, another reason for advocating a solution that is not based on a lobby.
LogiGod earns his pips
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