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SoTarian PoParrazi Shining Flame Amarr Empire 419	Posted - 2013.12.05 21:51:00 - [31] - Quote Since we're comparing real life... How many shots do you think it'll take a forge gun to kill a tank in real life? n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++ - Let's make a contract!
Kane Fyea 2322	Posted - 2013.12.05 21:52:00 - [32] - Quote Anmol Singh wrote: Many peoples counter argument to tank buff is that tanks in real tank one RPG to take down. Im here to enlighten you... Tanks in real- -take multiple hits of RPG's -Can track and hit a moving target from miles away using technology -have infrared cameras and night vision (lightd enemies up like flashlights) (tanks have special armor which makes it hard to lock onto -kill anything within a 10 meter blast radius of its shell -They practically have auto aim -have a 5 man highly trained crew Really HTFU... Do you want to be one hit from an invisible tank miles and miles away? It can hit person from two miles away while moving... Also there are handheld anti vehicle weapons that can one shot a tank from very far away too (The javelin for one).
Anmol Singh The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 381	Posted - 2013.12.05 21:54:00 - [33] - Quote Kane Fyea wrote: Anmol Singh wrote: Many peoples counter argument to tank buff is that tanks in real tank one RPG to take down. Im here to enlighten you... Tanks in real- -take multiple hits of RPG's -Can track and hit a moving target from miles away using technology -have infrared cameras and night vision (lightd enemies up like flashlights) (tanks have special armor which makes it hard to lock onto -kill anything within a 10 meter blast radius of its shell -They practically have auto aim -have a 5 man highly trained crew Really HTFU... Do you want to be one hit from an invisible tank miles and miles away? It can hit person from two miles away while moving... Also there are handheld anti vehicle weapons that can one shot a tank from very far away too (The javelin for one). say who? First of all your going to have to find the tank... second of all your gonna be dead because tanks in real have the worlds most OP aim assist and have very good infantry detecting abilities, also tanks have anti missile mods. *Sagaris lover!!!*
Xocoyol Zaraoul Superior Genetics 1592	Posted - 2013.12.05 21:55:00 - [34] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Using real life examples to gain leverage in an argument about balancing game mechanics leads to convenient bias. If you want realism, go play Red Orchestra. This... So much this. This is EVE FFS, our "space" is more like Jello... Realism is worthless for Game-Balance. Closed Beta Vet Reading the forums detracts from overall enjoyment of the game
Maximus Stryker Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 711	Posted - 2013.12.05 21:55:00 - [35] - Quote Anmol Singh wrote: Maximus Stryker wrote: Anmol Singh wrote: Many peoples counter argument to tank buff is that tanks in real tank one RPG to take down. Im here to enlighten you... Tanks in real- -take multiple hits of RPG's -Can track and hit a moving target from miles away using technology -have infrared cameras and night vision (lightd enemies up like flashlights) (tanks have special armor which makes it hard to lock onto -kill anything within a 10 meter blast radius of its shell -They practically have auto aim -have a 5 man highly trained crew Really HTFU... Do you want to be one hit from an invisible tank miles and miles away? It can hit person from two miles away while moving... what does this have to do with balance in a videogame? people keep coming to balance threads and keep using real world examples stating that one rpg can take out a tank and if thats what they want the game to be like, let me hit them with a lil bit of reality and how real tankers actually use tanks. I think you should simply reply to them the same way I replied to you *Faction Channels for FW Staging* PIE Ground Control \| Caldari Hierarchy \| Turalyon \| Chosen Matari
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 1612	Posted - 2013.12.05 21:56:00 - [36] - Quote Because a Sci-Fi FPS "MMO" title should definitely have mechanics similar to real life. While we're at it, why not buff the Range on SLs to 2km, and have them fire 12-18 swarms like a real life re-incarnation would. Why don't we also buff the range on Shotguns to 60m with no falloff damage? My Very First Thread About Tanks -HAND
Kane Fyea 2322	Posted - 2013.12.05 21:56:00 - [37] - Quote Anmol Singh wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: Anmol Singh wrote: Many peoples counter argument to tank buff is that tanks in real tank one RPG to take down. Im here to enlighten you... Tanks in real- -take multiple hits of RPG's -Can track and hit a moving target from miles away using technology -have infrared cameras and night vision (lightd enemies up like flashlights) (tanks have special armor which makes it hard to lock onto -kill anything within a 10 meter blast radius of its shell -They practically have auto aim -have a 5 man highly trained crew Really HTFU... Do you want to be one hit from an invisible tank miles and miles away? It can hit person from two miles away while moving... Also there are handheld anti vehicle weapons that can one shot a tank from very far away too (The javelin for one). say who? First of all your going to have to find the tank... second of all your gonna be dead because tanks in real have the worlds most OP aim assist and have very good infantry detecting abilities, also tanks have anti missile mods. The javelin can OSK a tank from two and a half clicks away lol (Which also locks on the the tank). I'll get you a video demonstration too :). EDIT: Found the video. Here you go. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3iA5KCa16s. The reason tanks are viable now is because no first world country has gone against another yet.
Anmol Singh The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 381	Posted - 2013.12.05 21:58:00 - [38] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Anmol Singh wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: Anmol Singh wrote: Many peoples counter argument to tank buff is that tanks in real tank one RPG to take down. Im here to enlighten you... Tanks in real- -take multiple hits of RPG's -Can track and hit a moving target from miles away using technology -have infrared cameras and night vision (lightd enemies up like flashlights) (tanks have special armor which makes it hard to lock onto -kill anything within a 10 meter blast radius of its shell -They practically have auto aim -have a 5 man highly trained crew Really HTFU... Do you want to be one hit from an invisible tank miles and miles away? It can hit person from two miles away while moving... Tanks in real- Get owned by 1 JAvelin Missile. Get owned by 1 or 2 mines. anything else? tanks in real snipe from 2-3 miles away having more accuracy than a sniper rifle OHKO anything within 10 m of the shell it landed ( most likely the shell will hit you in the face directly because technology has allowed tanks to have unbelivable accruacy and the turrets auto aim (kind of)) they can see targets in the dark, in bad weather and they can tack them.... so what if it goes down to one javilin (probably not) Tanks have anti missile systems that destroy missiles coming at them and many tracking systems to help figure out from where the missile is coming from before it even hits the vehicle. And from 2 miles away, plenty of time to do this stuff. Do you really want tanks that can OHKO any dropsuit from miles away (practically invisible tank if it came with camo) Do you really want tanks that never miss? exactly... htfu Im not afraid of all the crap you mentioned up there.BRING IT! but.. You are afraid of my 1HKO Javeline Missile. We have no space for more QQ tankers around here..... You wont see me, you'll be dead right when you come out of your hole... *Sagaris lover!!!*
Anmol Singh The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 381	Posted - 2013.12.05 22:00:00 - [39] - Quote Kane Fyea wrote: Anmol Singh wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: Anmol Singh wrote: Many peoples counter argument to tank buff is that tanks in real tank one RPG to take down. Im here to enlighten you... Tanks in real- -take multiple hits of RPG's -Can track and hit a moving target from miles away using technology -have infrared cameras and night vision (lightd enemies up like flashlights) (tanks have special armor which makes it hard to lock onto -kill anything within a 10 meter blast radius of its shell -They practically have auto aim -have a 5 man highly trained crew Really HTFU... Do you want to be one hit from an invisible tank miles and miles away? It can hit person from two miles away while moving... Also there are handheld anti vehicle weapons that can one shot a tank from very far away too (The javelin for one). say who? First of all your going to have to find the tank... second of all your gonna be dead because tanks in real have the worlds most OP aim assist and have very good infantry detecting abilities, also tanks have anti missile mods. The javelin can OSK a tank from two and a half clicks away lol (Which also locks on the the tank). I'll get you a video demonstration too :). EDIT: Found the video. Here you go. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3iA5KCa16s. The reason tanks are viable now is because no first world country has gone against another yet (In recent times). What tank noob tank is that? *Sagaris lover!!!*
Dunk Mujunk RestlessSpirits 365	Posted - 2013.12.05 22:09:00 - [40] - Quote In my opinion the real world example that would best work within Dust would be the fact that out in the open, yes, RL tanks are pretty godly, but in close confines such as a city, and when facing an entrenched and well prepared enemy, they are a liability waiting to pop (generally speaking). Ideally (well, for me anyway), Dust will one day increase player counts and, obviously, introduce all the different vehicles, then tailor the game to the point that being being caught out in the open between 2 sockets would be all but a death sentence for a lone foot soldier. Pushes from socket to socket would require support from armor, and with enough vehicles, as well as with the importance this would place on vehicles, I think a majority of the skirmishes would become vehicle vs vehicle, with the opposing infantry escorts engaging each other as opposed to the vehicles. You would still have infantry based AV, but I feel there would be much less, mainly due to the fact that anything outside CQC areas would be the realm of vehicles. In RL the best AV is a tank, and tanks are made to fight tanks, not infantry, just like infantry is generally made to fight infantry. The middle ground would be an IFV or APC. Making vehicles the best way to counter vehicles I think opens the door for less AV, as well as the ability to specialize AV more. Basically this forces teamwork. Infantry needs vehicle support away from sockets, vehicles need infantry support in sockets. A serious push on a skilled enemy entrenched well into a socket would require an armor column approaching the socket, with infantry dismounting upon arriving at the socket to clear out opposing infantry will vehicles engage opposing vehicles. Just a thought. Im an 80s guy, friendship to me means for 2 bucks id beat you with a pool cue till you got detached retinas. Futurama

Maxximus Meridious The Exemplars Top Men. 0	Posted - 2013.12.05 22:09:00 - [41] - Quote Anmol Singh wrote: Maxximus Meridious wrote: taxi bastard wrote: lots of anti tank weapons out there old style RPG's may not take out a tank with one shot - the challenger 2 MBT has debatably the best protection out of all current MBT. here is a little extract for you about it in service During the 2003 invasion of Iraq the Challenger 2 tanks suffered no tank losses to enemy fire, although one was penetrated by an IED. This was at the time unprotected by "Dorchester" armour. The driver was injured. In one encounter within the urban area a Challenger 2 came under attack from irregular forces with machine guns and rocket propelled grenades. The driver's sight was damaged and while attempting to back away under the commander's directions, the other sights were damaged and the tank threw its tracks entering a ditch. It was hit directly by fourteen rocket propelled grenades from close range and a MILAN anti-tank missile.[15] The crew survived remaining safe within the tank until the tank was recovered for repairs, the worst damage being to the sighting system. It was back in operation six hours later after repairs. One Challenger 2 operating near Basra survived being hit by 70 RPGs in another incident. surviving and being operational are 2 different things though. the tanks were disabled so for dust purposes destroyed. the other factor not taken into account was that these are vintage RPG and the Milan anti tank missile is from the 70's vs the latest armour in the best protected tank out there. modern AT missiles would make a lot easier work of the challenger 2. tanks are not immortal, simple things such as an IED can effectively take out a tank for all operational purposes. AT vs tank of the same generation there really is not too much in it. tank should be god mode........if your fighting mercs with rifles. tanks should be vulnerable to mercs with AV and mines. if you think they should be able to stay around while getting attacked by AV then imo your wrong. While I understand the point that you are trying to make in regards to this thread, British tanks during the Iraqi conflict had a lower casualty rate than their Abrams counterparts due in large part of their deployment in only ONE city in the whole of Iraq, whereas Abrams were tasked with patrol and operations in the rest of the countryside. The casualty rate would have been far greater had they moved north to join their armored counterparts in Fallujah/Ramadi/Eastern Baghdad. That said, I would much rather take an RPG shot or two behind the reactive armor of an Abrams, then the more effective shape charge IED, which attacks the underside between the treads, especially since most insurgents have notoriously bad aim... Also, many modern tanks had ied detection systems and here is a video of what happen when an ied does hit a tank... (good tank) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4q6BHfKzH-Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVJqBSr_FEs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQQff8TnYiU Actually, they are still equipped with countermeasures, among other things. To the poster with the youtube link showing "destroyed" M1A2's- nearly all of those in your link are not destroyed, but merely incapacitated, i.e missing treads. I've never seen a tank roaming around by itself, as they are usually deployed as a platoon or larger element, so there's that. Modern armor is designed with two purposes in mind- mission completion and crew survivability. I would say that based on the damage shown in that video/propaganda clip that most crews walked away alive. In regards to game mechanics, there really isn't much that is realistic to begin with, so applying real world characteristics is futile.
KING CHECKMATE AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS 2785	Posted - 2013.12.05 22:18:00 - [42] - Quote Anmol Singh wrote: You wont see me, you'll be dead right when you come out of your hole... Thats assuming you'll be on a high position, far enough away. sadly, not all maps have Great sniper spots broski WELCOME! TO ARMORED MED514 : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1565076#post1565076
Anmol Singh The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 381	Posted - 2013.12.05 22:18:00 - [43] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Anmol Singh wrote: You wont see me, you'll be dead right when you come out of your hole... Thats assuming you'll be on a high position, far enough away. sadly, not all maps have Great sniper spots broski Disadvantages[edit] The main drawback of the complete system (missile, tube, and CLU) is its 49.2 lb (22.3 kg) total weight. The system is designed to be portable by infantry on foot and weighs more than the original weight specified by the army.[16] Another drawback of the system is the reliance on a thermal view to acquire targets. The thermal views are not able to operate until the refrigeration component has cooled the system. The manufacturer estimates 30 seconds until this is complete, but depending on the ambient temperature, this process may take much longer. Also, Javelin launchers and missiles are rather expensive. A single Javelin command launch unit costs around $125,000, and each missile costs around $80,000. The operator of the complex has no opportunity to correct the flight of the rocket after launch (when the target heat contrasts poorly with the terrain, the missile can miss). Edit: you want to use javilins against a tank, you gonna have to put down some isk on the table for one ammo and be a heavy at the same time... ultimate AV weapon, but will you survive infantry? You willing to loose lots of isk if you miss and pay lots of isk for this weapon? *Sagaris lover!!!*
Luna Angelo We Who Walk Alone 309	Posted - 2013.12.05 22:33:00 - [44] - Quote Dunk Mujunk wrote: In my opinion the real world example that would best work within Dust would be the fact that out in the open, yes, RL tanks are pretty godly, but in close confines such as a city, and when facing an entrenched and well prepared enemy, they are a liability waiting to pop (generally speaking). Ideally (well, for me anyway), Dust will one day increase player counts and, obviously, introduce all the different vehicles, then tailor the game to the point that being being caught out in the open between 2 sockets would be all but a death sentence for a lone foot soldier. Pushes from socket to socket would require support from armor, and with enough vehicles, as well as with the importance this would place on vehicles, I think a majority of the skirmishes would become vehicle vs vehicle, with the opposing infantry escorts engaging each other as opposed to the vehicles. You would still have infantry based AV, but I feel there would be much less, mainly due to the fact that anything outside CQC areas would be the realm of vehicles. In RL the best AV is a tank, and tanks are made to fight tanks, not infantry, just like infantry is generally made to fight infantry. The middle ground would be an IFV or APC. Making vehicles the best way to counter vehicles I think opens the door for less AV, as well as the ability to specialize AV more. Basically this forces teamwork. Infantry needs vehicle support away from sockets, vehicles need infantry support in sockets. A serious push on a skilled enemy entrenched well into a socket would require an armor column approaching the socket, with infantry dismounting upon arriving at the socket to clear out opposing infantry will vehicles engage opposing vehicles. Just a thought. There is this. I've only ever seen tanks in cities (irl) when they're destroying said city to drive out the last bits of resistance. Mostly, they provide support in the form of missiles hitting targets from a long way off, after infantry lights them up (usually). We already light things up, both with a scanner and to call down OB's. We could use a similar method to the latter for tanks. And AV, too. Names of playstyles
Benjamin Ciscko The Generals General Tso's Alliance 277	Posted - 2013.12.05 22:40:00 - [45] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Anmol Singh wrote: Many peoples counter argument to tank buff is that tanks in real tank one RPG to take down. Im here to enlighten you... Tanks in real- -take multiple hits of RPG's -Can track and hit a moving target from miles away using technology -have infrared cameras and night vision (lightd enemies up like flashlights) (tanks have special armor which makes it hard to lock onto -kill anything within a 10 meter blast radius of its shell -They practically have auto aim -have a 5 man highly trained crew Really HTFU... Do you want to be one hit from an invisible tank miles and miles away? It can hit person from two miles away while moving... Tanks in real- Get owned by 1 JAvelin Missile. Get owned by 1 or 2 mines. anything else? Ever heard of the trophy systems the Israeli's already have a prototype. Vehicle rework scheduled for 1.5.... 1.6.... 1.7........ Tanker/Logi Wait until AV feels the pain vehicle users have
Benjamin Ciscko The Generals General Tso's Alliance 277	Posted - 2013.12.05 22:46:00 - [46] - Quote daishi mk03 wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZTccFE0y9c Enjoy plenty of destroyed abrams and other stuff with arab music. You're welcome. Edit: Pretty indestructible ... not. Lol only 1 Abrams was destroyed by enemy fire the others were either stuck in the mud or hit by friendly fire or not Abram's at all. Vehicle rework scheduled for 1.5.... 1.6.... 1.7........ Tanker/Logi Wait until AV feels the pain vehicle users have
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 1117	Posted - 2013.12.05 23:09:00 - [47] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Using real life examples to gain leverage in an argument about balancing game mechanics leads to convenient bias. If you want realism, go play Red Orchestra. Or, you know, Arma 2. I can't really think of a more realistic FPS. You typically die in 1 shot unless it hits you in the leg/arm, every weapon has ballistics, traveling takes up most of your time, a single sniper can lock down and entire valley, and engagements usually take place at 300+ meters. That pretty much sums up war IRL. Arma 3 uses fictional vehicles/weapons, so it isn't as authentic, if it did, it would definately be more realistic than #2, IMO. [+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94] Level 1 Forum Warrior The Plasma Cannon is not underpowered
Kane Fyea 2323	Posted - 2013.12.05 23:34:00 - [48] - Quote Lets balance this game around real life. I'd love to shoot my shotgun accurately at 40m so go right ahead.
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 381	Posted - 2013.12.05 23:58:00 - [49] - Quote daishi mk03 wrote: Quote: HEAT rounds caused a revolution in anti-tank warfare when they were first introduced in the later stages of World War II. A single infantryman could effectively destroy any existing tank with a handheld weapon, thereby dramatically altering the nature of mobile operations. After the war HEAT became almost universal as the primary anti-tank weapon. HEAT rounds of varying effectiveness were produced for almost all weapons from infantry weapons like rifle grenades and the M203 grenade launcher, to larger dedicated anti-tank systems like the Carl Gustav recoilless rifle. When combined with the wire-guided missile, infantry weapons were able to operate in the long-range role as well. Anti-tank missiles altered the nature of tank warfare throughout the 1960s and into the 80s, and remain an effective system today. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HEAT http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tandem-charge Then I take it you know about the armor made specifically because of HEAT rounds? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chobham_armour http://military.discovery.com/tv-shows/combat-tech/videos/combat-tech-the-heat-round.htm daishi mk03 wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZTccFE0y9c Enjoy plenty of destroyed abrams and other stuff with arab music. You're welcome. Edit: Pretty indestructible ... not. US Abrams have a detonation system inside of them (not sure about Abrams used by other countries however) that are used when they are abandoned on the field. What you see there are mostly tanks destroyed by this abandonment system, not from external fire. Once the treads are blown out they destroy the interior so that it cannot be used against them. More than half of the tanks in that video were abandoned clearly because they were stuck. Pitfalls or too much sand and dust in the gears grinding them out. Some are the same tank that has been dragged about and re-photo'd for propaganda purposes. :/ Many times the tanks are still operational, but cease functioning because the crew inside is not as... sturdy. Thus the detonation system to clean up. If you can read this, it means you are reading. Unless you are skimming
TunRa RETR0 PR0 GAMERS INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 233	Posted - 2013.12.06 00:04:00 - [50] - Quote Can we just have this in Dust? Is this where I write the signature? No?

True Adamance Fatal Absolution 4566	Posted - 2013.12.06 00:10:00 - [51] - Quote TunRa wrote: Can we just have this in Dust? Very cool if swarmers required a heat signature to lock onto targets. "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
Benjamin Ciscko The Generals General Tso's Alliance 277	Posted - 2013.12.06 00:21:00 - [52] - Quote TunRa wrote: Can we just have this in Dust? That would be cool if it took up a slot but increased SL lock on times or only let a number of missiles land depending on tier and screwed with AV nade tracking so only direct impacts did damage, less vulnerable to AV more vulnerable to tanks. Vehicle rework scheduled for 1.5.... 1.6.... 1.7........ Tanker/Logi Wait until AV feels the pain vehicle users have
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 1623	Posted - 2013.12.06 00:24:00 - [53] - Quote Benjamin Ciscko wrote: TunRa wrote: Can we just have this in Dust? That would be cool if it took up a slot but increased SL lock on times or only let a number of missiles land depending on tier and screwed with AV nade tracking so only direct impacts did damage, less vulnerable to AV more vulnerable to tanks. No. AV = HAV. If you want to play Tank 514 then go to World Of Tanks, This game is called DUST 514. It's not called "Lets make HAVs the best niche in the game and the best counter and answer to everything" 514. My Very First Thread About Tanks -HAND
Benjamin Ciscko The Generals General Tso's Alliance 277	Posted - 2013.12.06 00:38:00 - [54] - Quote Atiim wrote: Benjamin Ciscko wrote: TunRa wrote: Can we just have this in Dust? That would be cool if it took up a slot but increased SL lock on times or only let a number of missiles land depending on tier and screwed with AV nade tracking so only direct impacts did damage, less vulnerable to AV more vulnerable to tanks. No. AV = HAV. If you want to play Tank 514 then go to World Of Tanks, This game is called DUST 514. It's not called "Lets make HAVs the best niche in the game and the best counter and answer to everything" 514. This module would not affect FG's or PLC's so the tank would be weaker wasting a slot for a hardener or something useful against that kind of AV, and I want to play Balance 514 here I will edit it for you happy. Vehicle rework scheduled for 1.5.... 1.6.... 1.7........ Tanker/Logi Wait until AV feels the pain vehicle users have


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