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Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
Top Men.
452
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Posted - 2013.12.03 20:18:00 -
[1] - Quote
As it stands, logis carrying both nanite injectors and repair tools have little incentive to use the Proto or even Advanced nanite injectors. The high rep rate of repair tools after 1.6 usually allows the revived merc to live through most attacks, assuming your beam is locked onto him after the revive. Using better injectors typically means that your triage rewards are reduced as there is less armor left to repair.
What if that extra HP healed by 50% advanced and 80% proto needles were added to the HP healing pool that pays out triage points? Militia/standard needles would still only be 30% and receive no bonus (and remain at 60 WP per revive), meaning only the 20% and 50% of extra HP from using advanced/proto would count towards earning triage points.
Example:
Logi with a basic needle revives a merc with 500 armor, restoring 150 HP just from the injector. He then repairs the merc for the remaining 350 HP, earning him 175 WP for triage (I'm arbitrarily assigning 25 WP for every 50 HP healed). Total WP earned for the logi would be 235 HP.
Logi with a proto needle revives the same merc with 500 armor, restoring 400 HP just from the injector. On top of the 60 WP reward for the revive, 125 WP extra are awarded instantly for "needle triage". The remaining 100 HP is repped by a repper, earning 50 WP. The total WP earned is still 235 HP.
The advantages of this "needle triage" benefit:
Logis would be encouraged to run proto needles as they get the same number of points, but faster, and with less risk of the revived merc dying under fire, not to mention less time spent topping off the merc with the repair tool.
Non-logi medics would be encouraged to skill up nanocircuitry and use advanced/proto needles as they could still get major points bonus points, particularly if reviving mercs with high armor HP.
Better needles mean higher meta and ISK payouts, not to mention reducing "slayer ability" by eating up more CPU/PG.
Better needles would mean a higher survival rate (depending on base armor) if picked up without a repper tool locked onto you, leading to less forum QQ about being revived and killed right after.
Needle triage would also be an indirect WP buff for non-logi medics, since they can benefit from triage points while only carrying a nanite injector. Logis with both a nanite injector and repair tool would no longer be hogging all the triage points from revives.
Any thoughts? |
Vulpes Dolosus
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
362
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Posted - 2013.12.03 22:49:00 -
[2] - Quote
WP for revives should have a base rate for revive plus bonus triage points scaled to the amount of armor repaired. Meaning that you'll receive more hp using the better needles, but also grants more sp picking up higher armour hp dropsuits with the same needle.
Dropship Specialist: AKA Clinically Insane
Kills- Incubus: 3; Pythons: 0; Logistics: 0; Militia: 19; Tanks: 4
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xAckie
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
364
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Posted - 2013.12.03 23:27:00 -
[3] - Quote
stupid. More WP farming
reduce militia basic revives to 15wp and scale up to 60wp |
Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
Top Men.
453
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Posted - 2013.12.04 00:20:00 -
[4] - Quote
xAckie wrote:stupid. More WP farming
reduce militia basic revives to 15wp and scale up to 60wp
How does it encourage more WP farming? The total amount of WP from a revive is still the same (see my example). If anything it encourages other classes aside from logi to use better needles as you get a decent payout in terms of WP.
If WP from revives was reduced to 15 WP for basic, no one except logis would use needles. Better to either equip a rep tool or use nanohives to get points, rather than risking your life for a measly 15 WP. |
xAckie
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
364
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Posted - 2013.12.04 10:39:00 -
[5] - Quote
Sana Rayya wrote:xAckie wrote:stupid. More WP farming
reduce militia basic revives to 15wp and scale up to 60wp How does it encourage more WP farming? The total amount of WP from a revive is still the same (see my example). If anything it encourages other classes aside from logi to use better needles as you get a decent payout in terms of WP. If WP from revives was reduced to 15 WP for basic, no one except logis would use needles. Better to either equip a rep tool or use nanohives to get points, rather than risking your life for a measly 15 WP.
you are 'instantly' - as you actually write - adding more WP to using needles. Less need to carry reppers etc.
WP for needles should be reduced anyway. As I said. This would actually mean people would use advanced or proto to get the WP.
WP are totally out of whack as is. Repping for WP is totallly out of whack as is. And this is just adding to it.
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D34NOS MAZDA
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
Top Men.
255
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Posted - 2013.12.04 13:35:00 -
[6] - Quote
xAckie wrote:Sana Rayya wrote:xAckie wrote:stupid. More WP farming
reduce militia basic revives to 15wp and scale up to 60wp How does it encourage more WP farming? The total amount of WP from a revive is still the same (see my example). If anything it encourages other classes aside from logi to use better needles as you get a decent payout in terms of WP. If WP from revives was reduced to 15 WP for basic, no one except logis would use needles. Better to either equip a rep tool or use nanohives to get points, rather than risking your life for a measly 15 WP. you are 'instantly' - as you actually write - adding more WP to using needles. Less need to carry reppers etc. WP for needles should be reduced anyway. As I said. This would actually mean people would use advanced or proto to get the WP. WP are totally out of whack as is. Repping for WP is totallly out of whack as is. And this is just adding to it.
With your example Ackie i would still be better off running a militia needle and getting the +15 and about an extra +200 from repping. with a proto needle i would get +60 and +50 for the reps. What do you think i would run???
Sana,
i fully agree with what you have outlined above would actually make me run a proto/adv needle more often. +1
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Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
Top Men.
456
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Posted - 2013.12.04 13:49:00 -
[7] - Quote
xAckie wrote:
you are 'instantly' - as you actually write - adding more WP to using needles. Less need to carry reppers etc.
WP for needles should be reduced anyway. As I said. This would actually mean people would use advanced or proto to get the WP.
WP are totally out of whack as is. Repping for WP is totallly out of whack as is. And this is just adding to it.
Why would a logi use an advanced or proto needle to get 60 WP, when if he uses a basic needle, he'll get 15 WP but still get massive points from repping? If I revive a heavy with your logic, I'd get 60 WP and maybe 50 WP from repping, vs 15 WP and perhaps 200-300 WP from repping. This would only discourage non-logi players from using needles because the risk vs. WP reward is a pittance compared to other equipment that earns more WP, involves little risk, directly benefits oneself, and is of more use to the team.
If better needles reduce the need to carry reppers, then the absence of reppers would result in fewer overall WP earned. The repper tool itself generates the most WP in terms of triage/guardian points on armor tankers that are damage tanking. Needle triage would only earn additional points on revives; it does nothing to earn points from teammates who are still alive but in need of repping.
In the current mechanic, logis who use better needles are penalized because they do not earn as many triage points after the revive as they could have if they had used a basic needle. Non-logi medics have no self-serving reason (other than the survival of the merc revived) to use better needles because they still only receive 60 WP despite higher fitting/ISK/SP costs, and again, the more armor they rep on the revive, the less is left for logis on their team to rep to earn WP. Adding needle triage solves both of these problems while giving medics a chance at WP that traditionally only logis or other repping mercs have been able to capitalize upon.
Edit: Damn Mazda, you took the words (and numbers) right out of my mouth lol |
SteelheadPep
SAM-MIK
5
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Posted - 2013.12.04 14:22:00 -
[8] - Quote
Support logis are becoming a rarity. No one likes being picked up with a milta needle, I run proto needles and advanced reps on my suits to help my sqaud/ team. It seems that some mercs are upset when a meager support logi gets more WP at the end of a match, do you ever take a minute to look at our KDR or wonder how much it costs to run adv/ proto equip. When we put ourselves between you and the storm to save you a proto suit and ISK we here you shouldn't have picked me up. You should worry that they are witch hunting the logis and in the future you can look forward to being picked up by some merc with just a milta needle that just wants the pointsand could care less what happens to you. Be careful of what you whish for. |
xAckie
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
364
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Posted - 2013.12.04 14:42:00 -
[9] - Quote
as I said WP are out of whack.
repping WP are out of whack and need to be reduced too
my overall point still stands. Your trying to WP farm even more than you already can - and I include myself here. |
Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
Top Men.
457
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Posted - 2013.12.04 15:16:00 -
[10] - Quote
xAckie wrote: I dont like the way WP are distributed or thought about in this game. It makes for single player focused game and pushes people to play logi suits to WP farm. You can even get guardian points when repping someone dropping an orbital?!?!?! These are the mechanics we have and should be changed. Your supporting the status quo and building on them. WP should be more objective based.
If you're suggesting to retool the way that WP earnings work then perhaps you should make your own thread dedicated to it?
Our points still stand that within the current WP system, there is no incentive to run better injectors when you only short yourself out of triage WP. My suggestion solves this problem while adding many benefits to promote the use of higher level injectors.
Also, how exactly does rewarding the SUPPORT character make for a single player focused game? Maybe I'm misinterpreting you here, but a lone logi's needle and rep tool are useless if he is not close to teammates to revive/repair. Or are you saying that it pushes more people to use logi suits specifically to farm warpoints (so a single suit/playstyle focused game)? If this is the case, then why are people complaining about slayer logis when farmer logis are clearly the better choice?
Lastly, aside from active scanners/nanohives, logis really only make points when your side is getting hurt - spawn WP from uplinks, revive/triage WP from needles/reppers, etc. If games are one-sided, then it's the killers who are topping the boards, not the logis. If your team is losing then yes, logis can top the boards, but from the service they are providing and the work they are doing, they deserve the points they get. Logi work keeps the fight going.
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richiesutie 2
The Rainbow Effect
526
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Posted - 2013.12.04 17:33:00 -
[11] - Quote
Good players will run the best equipment for their team or for pub squad,they will see blueberrys as WP opportunities.
Personally i run the proto nanite injector w/ core focused repair tool as there truly is no comparison between the std variants.
Unfortunately with ccp making every death count no matter whether you lose a clone or not , your Idea will simply cause more QQ on these already tear-soaked forums because more people will be running the nanite injector and will only care about the WPs not the probability if the clone surviving the revive.
compilation of Patch/build notes
Check it out! :)
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Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
Top Men.
459
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Posted - 2013.12.04 17:43:00 -
[12] - Quote
richiesutie 2 wrote:
Unfortunately with ccp making every death count no matter whether you lose a clone or not , your Idea will simply cause more QQ on these already tear-soaked forums because more people will be running the nanite injector and will only care about the WPs not the probability if the clone surviving the revive.
My idea only applies a triage bonus for using advanced and proto needles. Not only that, but bonus WP are scaled based on the armor of the merc you revive, so you get more points if the merc has more armor, and the more armor that is restored, the higher the survivability of that merc. I don't see how encouraging people to run advanced or proto nanite injectors instead of basic/militia would lead to more QQ about being revived and dying afterward. |
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