DUST Search - Let's talk dust: Mass Drivers.

Baal Omniscient wrote:

Sinboto Simmons wrote:

I use Mass Drivers, in case someone didn't know, no damage mods just skill and proficiency (for the pg skill more than anything really) anyway I've been seeing an increase of complainants about the Mass Driver lately and I ask why?

The Mass Drivers are hardly amazingly powerfull in the killing regard being a support weapon, and ya know....the nerffs, so the only problem I see here is damage mod stacking, but that's not what this thread is about.

What's your opinion on Mass Drivers?

Allow me to quote my other thread:

Quote:

As I'm sure you know (but I'm going to say it anyway) the radius of any circle is measured from the center to the circumference (the outer edge). Anyone care to venture a guess at just the area a MD round's blast covers? The total area covered in a blast is affected drastically by even slight changes in the radius of the blast, allow me to show you by breakin it down for you using a normal proto MD and math. (Area of a circle = pi x radius^2):

Freedom Mass Driver Radius: 4.4m
Mass Driver Operations 5 Skill Bonus: 1.1m
Total Radius: 5.5m

Formula to find the area: Area = 3.14 x 5.5^2

Area of a Freedom MD blast: 78.5m
Distance across a MD blast: 11m

How about that Boundless?

Radius after Operation 5 Skill bonus: 8.25
Area of a Boundless Assault MD blast: 213.72m
Distance across the blast: 16.5m

Now I have no issue with Mass Drivers as they are when you first skill into them. Their damage is just right, though their splash range may be a bit much. The issue comes with damage mod stacking. As you know, the higher the DPR the greater the impact of damage mods. When able to spread all that damage over such a great area, it's just too much. The ony way to fix the weapon and still keep it viable would be to change the proficiency bonus and somehow prevent damage mod stacking, or reduce the splash radius and RoF and give it back the smoke cloud it used to produce in Chromosome along with it's old ability to severely throw off people's aim by large amounts.

Once again, I have no qualms with MD's as they are without the damage bonuses. They are fun and exciting to use and a wonderful support weapon. They do however need to be tweaked.

Few are my equal in one of these specialties, and there are none who can compare in all of them.

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Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 709	Posted - 2013.12.04 10:34:00 - [31] - Quote Cenex Langly wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: I use Mass Drivers, in case someone didn't know, no damage mods just skill and proficiency (for the pg skill more than anything really) anyway I've been seeing an increase of complainants about the Mass Driver lately and I ask why? The Mass Drivers are hardly amazingly powerfull in the killing regard being a support weapon, and ya know....the nerffs, so the only problem I see here is damage mod stacking, but that's not what this thread is about. What's your opinion on Mass Drivers? My opinion is that they are completely useless in CQC, they are useless in comparison to other weapons in terms of effectiveness. They are only useful in camping objectives from high ground, but still outclassed by forge guns. They absolutely cannot compete with the AR or ScR so using them in the competitive scene is pretty much never seen. Lastly if you are thinking about training into them consider your other options first. Breach varients are useful in CQC, using it light a shotgun Assaults are good in holding an objective normal varients are good if you're not awful at FPS games. Parody Dust 514 Lyrics Vote for Delt
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 759	Posted - 2013.12.04 12:36:00 - [32] - Quote Sinboto Simmons wrote: I use Mass Drivers, in case someone didn't know, no damage mods just skill and proficiency (for the pg skill more than anything really) anyway I've been seeing an increase of complainants about the Mass Driver lately and I ask why? The Mass Drivers are hardly amazingly powerfull in the killing regard being a support weapon, and ya know....the nerffs, so the only problem I see here is damage mod stacking, but that's not what this thread is about. What's your opinion on Mass Drivers? Allow me to quote my other thread: Quote: As I'm sure you know (but I'm going to say it anyway) the radius of any circle is measured from the center to the circumference (the outer edge). Anyone care to venture a guess at just the area a MD round's blast covers? The total area covered in a blast is affected drastically by even slight changes in the radius of the blast, allow me to show you by breakin it down for you using a normal proto MD and math. (Area of a circle = pi x radius^2): Freedom Mass Driver Radius: 4.4m Mass Driver Operations 5 Skill Bonus: 1.1m Total Radius: 5.5m Formula to find the area: Area = 3.14 x 5.5^2 Area of a Freedom MD blast: 78.5m Distance across a MD blast: 11m How about that Boundless? Radius after Operation 5 Skill bonus: 8.25 Area of a Boundless Assault MD blast: 213.72m Distance across the blast: 16.5m Now I have no issue with Mass Drivers as they are when you first skill into them. Their damage is just right, though their splash range may be a bit much. The issue comes with damage mod stacking. As you know, the higher the DPR the greater the impact of damage mods. When able to spread all that damage over such a great area, it's just too much. The ony way to fix the weapon and still keep it viable would be to change the proficiency bonus and somehow prevent damage mod stacking, or reduce the splash radius and RoF and give it back the smoke cloud it used to produce in Chromosome along with it's old ability to severely throw off people's aim by large amounts. Once again, I have no qualms with MD's as they are without the damage bonuses. They are fun and exciting to use and a wonderful support weapon. They do however need to be tweaked. Fix TTK!!! MATARI PRIDE!!! Tears For Our Dearly Departed ReGnYuM. May He One Day Return To Shoot Us All In The Face...
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 151	Posted - 2013.12.04 13:16:00 - [33] - Quote TranquilBiscuit ofVaLoR wrote: I don't care how weak they are. it's a weapon that rewards no skill, so when I see people complaining about mass drivers being too weak I lol. some pros with with the MD can really tear things up, so I know it's not UP. if you're good with it, then props to you bro. good to see someone who is not a noob using it like a boss. MD's are far from skillless weapons. As others have said, trying to take down an enemy actively engaged in fighting you at more than 20m is not the easiest proposition: the travel time means that you must adjust your aim accordingly which can lead to misses if your eye is off by even a small amount or if the target is good enough to mislead you, or there is terrain used against you. High ground is the bane and saviour of the MD: an MD on high ground will dominate a position; conversely an MD against targets above is essentially useless (unless there is a handy ceiling!) Utilising the environment to your advantage and learning the quite drastically different method that the MD operates in is not nearly as simple as some think. Add to that the slow ROF (ie, in a very low TTK environment an MD will take between 2 to 5 seconds to kill targets due to firing much more slowly than it's contemporaries) and the MD requires a decent amount of skill to get decent mileage out of. A good MD user will hurt a lot, because they have learned to use the environment properly (targeting walls/ceilings, arcing fire over intervening terrain, etc) and an excellent MD user has learned to properly compensate for range. I love my MD, I really enjoyed the first map of the Squad Cup because I got to sit up high on one of the bluffs and rain explode-y death
Leovarian L Lavitz NECROM0NGERS Covert Intervention 825	Posted - 2013.12.04 13:30:00 - [34] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: I use Mass Drivers, in case someone didn't know, no damage mods just skill and proficiency (for the pg skill more than anything really) anyway I've been seeing an increase of complainants about the Mass Driver lately and I ask why? The Mass Drivers are hardly amazingly powerfull in the killing regard being a support weapon, and ya know....the nerffs, so the only problem I see here is damage mod stacking, but that's not what this thread is about. What's your opinion on Mass Drivers? Allow me to quote my other thread: Quote: As I'm sure you know (but I'm going to say it anyway) the radius of any circle is measured from the center to the circumference (the outer edge). Anyone care to venture a guess at just the area a MD round's blast covers? The total area covered in a blast is affected drastically by even slight changes in the radius of the blast, allow me to show you by breakin it down for you using a normal proto MD and math. (Area of a circle = pi x radius^2): Freedom Mass Driver Radius: 4.4m Mass Driver Operations 5 Skill Bonus: 1.1m Total Radius: 5.5m Formula to find the area: Area = 3.14 x 5.5^2 Area of a Freedom MD blast: 78.5m Distance across a MD blast: 11m How about that Boundless? Radius after Operation 5 Skill bonus: 8.25 Area of a Boundless Assault MD blast: 213.72m Distance across the blast: 16.5m Now I have no issue with Mass Drivers as they are when you first skill into them. Their damage is just right, though their splash range may be a bit much. The issue comes with damage mod stacking. As you know, the higher the DPR the greater the impact of damage mods. When able to spread all that damage over such a great area, it's just too much. The ony way to fix the weapon and still keep it viable would be to change the proficiency bonus and somehow prevent damage mod stacking, or reduce the splash radius and RoF and give it back the smoke cloud it used to produce in Chromosome along with it's old ability to severely throw off people's aim by large amounts. Once again, I have no qualms with MD's as they are without the damage bonuses. They are fun and exciting to use and a wonderful support weapon. They do however need to be tweaked. You can kill over 450% faster with an AR. Argument invalidated. Omni-Soldier Few are my equal in one of these specialties, and there are none who can compare in all of them.
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 759	Posted - 2013.12.04 14:02:00 - [35] - Quote Leovarian L Lavitz wrote: You can kill over 450% faster with an AR. Argument invalidated. You can kill in a 70m+ larger area all at once with less than a quarter of the needed aiming ability with a MD. Arguement re-validated. Fix TTK!!! MATARI PRIDE!!! Tears For Our Dearly Departed ReGnYuM. May He One Day Return To Shoot Us All In The Face...
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 2713	Posted - 2013.12.04 14:04:00 - [36] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: Leovarian L Lavitz wrote: You can kill over 450% faster with an AR. Argument invalidated. You can kill in a 70m+ larger area all at once with less than a quarter of the needed aiming ability with a MD. Arguement re-validated. You actually need more aim with the Mass Driver due to it being a projectile and not a hitscan weapon, especially if you're not just using it in CQC..... Sinboto - The True Blood Minja. Forum Warrior level 2 STB-Infantry (Demolition)
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 759	Posted - 2013.12.04 15:19:00 - [37] - Quote Sinboto Simmons wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: Leovarian L Lavitz wrote: You can kill over 450% faster with an AR. Argument invalidated. You can kill in a 70m+ larger area all at once with less than a quarter of the needed aiming ability with a MD. Arguement re-validated. You actually need more aim with the Mass Driver due to it being a projectile and not a hitscan weapon, especially if you're not just using it in CQC..... As a fan and user of mass drivers since early Chromosome, I mean no offense towards mass driver users by saying aiming isn't as important as with other weapons. With mass drivers a good feel for timing is definitely required, a proper sense for arcs as well. However actual fine aiming plays only a minor role when using a mass driver unless you are either using a breach (which appears to be better suited to AV than AI, not that it's AV qualities are very impressive) or are trying to use it as a CQC weapon instead of a support weapon (a very dangerous endeavor). The fact alone that you typically only need to hit in the general vicinity of your target to deal damage means that fine aiming isn't a necessity. Once again, no offense intended to my mass driver Matari bretheren, it's just that aiming isn't a huge part of MD gunplay the same way that arcs and timing aren't a huge part of AR gunplay. And in that "sweet spot" of range and elevation (you know what I'm talking about) of about 10-20m out and about 5-10m up, you can literally take out arcs and timing as well. Not that you get in that sweet spot often but when you do find yourself in it, Hell is unleashed on your enemy lol. Fix TTK!!! MATARI PRIDE!!! Tears For Our Dearly Departed ReGnYuM. May He One Day Return To Shoot Us All In The Face...
Mahal Daj Mahal Tactical Enterprises 17	Posted - 2014.01.25 14:46:00 - [38] - Quote I don't always Mass Driver, but when I do I bring my knives and call it the Terror. Boost your squad's points by 40%, learn to use the Squad Wheel! I provide training: 1M isk: 90 Minutes of Basic Command
Charlotte O'Dell Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 1740	Posted - 2014.01.25 15:59:00 - [39] - Quote needs extra spare clip and 10% splash damage buff. Charlotte O'Dell is the highest level unicorn!
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 2975	Posted - 2014.01.25 16:04:00 - [40] - Quote Sinboto Simmons wrote: I use Mass Drivers, in case someone didn't know, no damage mods just skill and proficiency (for the pg skill more than anything really) anyway I've been seeing an increase of complainants about the Mass Driver lately and I ask why? The Mass Drivers are hardly amazingly powerfull in the killing regard being a support weapon, and ya know....the nerffs, so the only problem I see here is damage mod stacking, but that's not what this thread is about. What's your opinion on Mass Drivers? I had one in 1.3, before aim-assist. These days the only use I can find is to stick the breach on a scout with REs. Planting them on a tank only to see them drive off flaming was rather annoying. So now I chase them down and pop a few rounds in that weak spot. No.

Scheneighnay McBob Learning Coalition College 3704	Posted - 2014.01.25 16:19:00 - [41] - Quote They aren't catastrophic, but they could use a damage buff. As I'm currently doing pure-minmatar for the lols, I find myself using them alot. They're mainly just good for assist farming atm. I am your scan error.
Jamie Insano FACTION WARFARE ARMY 2	Posted - 2014.01.25 16:27:00 - [42] - Quote Mass Drivers are pathetic. I have a commando alt with MD/CR. They do not kill unless you have a direct hit on someone in starter gear. The area of effect for this weapon that is supposed to act as a grenade launcher is pitiful. While playing my alt in adv heavy, I let someone shoot me 6 times with a MD then I shot him twice with my RR. He died. I lost my shield and maybe 50 armor points. Honestly, the MD needs to be removed from the game. It doesn't do what it should and any time spent on it is a waste. Same goes for sniper rifles which can't shoot past 600m. This is not sniper rifle distance. In fact, it's just outside what an M-4 carbine will effectively do. Really, more than half the weapons should be scrubbed.
fawkuima juggalo Eternal Beings Proficiency V. 879	Posted - 2014.01.25 16:28:00 - [43] - Quote Sinboto Simmons wrote: I use Mass Drivers, in case someone didn't know, no damage mods just skill and proficiency (for the pg skill more than anything really) anyway I've been seeing an increase of complainants about the Mass Driver lately and I ask why? The Mass Drivers are hardly amazingly powerfull in the killing regard being a support weapon, and ya know....the nerffs, so the only problem I see here is damage mod stacking, but that's not what this thread is about. What's your opinion on Mass Drivers? noob tube.... nothing more nothing less. i dont think it should be gone but i do think it should be weak as f*** it should ONLY be a support weapon just kinda making noise to scare people. You know when you see an explosion and you fall back everytime that should be its main purpose, and maybe have a variant or increase the damage it does to vehicles. - LOGI REGISTRY / H.O.F. *NEW SEC ADDED -
Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone 510	Posted - 2014.01.25 16:40:00 - [44] - Quote Nothing like a few mass driver rounds to throw people in disarray before sending in people to mop up. Dunno what it is, but when people hear a MD going off they tend to lose their ****.
Smooth Assassin Stardust Incorporation IMMORTAL REGIME 728	Posted - 2014.01.25 16:42:00 - [45] - Quote Good weapon, low ammo. *Assassination is my thing.*
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 4179	Posted - 2014.01.26 01:44:00 - [46] - Quote amusing someone bumped this thread. Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 4 STB-Infantry (Demolition)
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance 986	Posted - 2014.01.26 01:53:00 - [47] - Quote Sinboto Simmons wrote: I use Mass Drivers, in case someone didn't know, no damage mods just skill and proficiency (for the pg skill more than anything really) anyway I've been seeing an increase of complainants about the Mass Driver lately and I ask why? The Mass Drivers are hardly amazingly powerfull in the killing regard being a support weapon, and ya know....the nerffs, so the only problem I see here is damage mod stacking, but that's not what this thread is about. What's your opinion on Mass Drivers? Honestly. As someone who uses a suit that the Mass Driver is extremely effective against, I believe it needs to be buffed... When I see people using a mass driver, I don't feel fear...At least not the same type of fear I feel from as a rifle, shotgun, or HMG in my face. The same goes with the laser rifle. They're supposed to be suppression weapons but suppression weapons need to be highly lethal with a major disadvantage. The Laser Rifle and Mass Driver have their disadvantages while not being highly lethal. I want these weapons back to normal so we can experience more diversity on the battlefield. "There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all." Roy Ventus
Zirzo Valcyn Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 59	Posted - 2014.01.26 02:05:00 - [48] - Quote it's no longer a slayer weapon like it was in chrome but i'm ok with that. it's a good shock weapon combined with a hit and run lav. active scanner, hunt border for snipers. jumping out of lav, i can tell within 2 shots if it's gonna kill them in time, if not i jump back in lav and leave. ppl hate me for this both blue and red but i dont care. if they want to loose 12 suits in one pub match while screaming the whole time that's their issue. i sorta like where MD is at now it is no longer FOTM and kills some ppl, which is good enough for me. u can ban the troll out of the forums but u can't ban the forums out of the troll.
abarkrishna WarRavens 280	Posted - 2014.01.26 02:26:00 - [49] - Quote Anyone who complains about mass drivers is just whiny. To elaborate I will explain in simple terms so they will be able to comprehend what I am saying better. Mass drivers have a DPS of between 85-400 Depending on many factors. These factors include whether the shot was a direct hit or splash damage,whether there was damage mods on, if the target was shield based or armor based and what variant. Now that I have gotten the facts out lets talk DPS. With a DPS of 400 or less it is still marginally lower than almost every other gun in the game. It is also extremely situational. There is a time and a place for it just like every weapon. The problem is that when trained users like myself get into that advantageous position and are able to relentlessly pummel reds. This is why they hate it so much. I will say the range is huge and makes it very difficult for players to hide from them especially if the MD user is in an elevated area. No you kill this blueberry hacking the CRU we are camping. I already killed the last 2. When will they learn!
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 3928	Posted - 2014.01.26 02:28:00 - [50] - Quote Sinboto Simmons wrote: Repe Susi wrote: Whoa. Nothing has been changed and now 'noobtoobs' are suddenly 'balanced'? Or even 'up'? prepare for brigading. Oh how the forums ruin this game. (FYI: I never thought or said they were easymode.) Exo-5 is really not that awesome or easy-mode without the skills. I should know. I use it at least once in ten matches! There haven't been anything aboot MD for a long time in the forums Since the Mass Drivers have been in the game they have had many changes, chrome saw the removal of two features and I believe a damage reduction ( don't quote me on that last bit) There wasn't a damage reduction. It's buff to Armor Plates that makes it seem as if it's doing less damage, which it may as well be. Next On To-Do List: Particle Cannons

Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 3929	Posted - 2014.01.26 02:31:00 - [51] - Quote fawkuima juggalo wrote: noob tube.... nothing more nothing less. i dont think it should be gone but i do think it should be weak as f*** it should ONLY be a support weapon just kinda making noise to scare people. You know when you see an explosion and you fall back everytime that should be its main purpose, and maybe have a variant or increase the damage it does to vehicles. What sense does that make? If I know that the weapon the enemy is using has no realistic chance of killing me, than a fancy visual won't scare me into doing anything. Unless your using them against Academy Graduates of course. Next On To-Do List: Particle Cannons
LT SHANKS Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 1472	Posted - 2014.01.26 02:36:00 - [52] - Quote Boundless Assault MD + Flux Grenades + Underground Research Facility + Domination = God Mode for the user I feel horrible...
Joel II X Dah Gods O Bacon 670	Posted - 2014.01.26 02:45:00 - [53] - Quote I did fairly well with them with operation one. This was in December, so yeah... I don't really have much of an opinion on them, though other than the fact that people rarely use them anymore. I think I find one user for every 15 or so matches.
ANON Cerberus Tiny Toons 163	Posted - 2014.01.26 02:45:00 - [54] - Quote I used to hate the mass driver, but now I hate every weapon. I have come to accept that I will be killed by pretty much anyone and anything and moaning about it is not good. The mass driver, I still see the odd one around and to be honest I have been in a few situations recently where I wish I had one. Especially on that map that ALWAYS has really low framerate where one of the objectives in skirmish is in that missile silo / open indoor bit where you can orbital the enemies. (Right near the underground supply depot)
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 4183	Posted - 2014.01.26 04:13:00 - [55] - Quote ANON Cerberus wrote: I used to hate the mass driver, but now I hate every weapon. I have come to accept that I will be killed by pretty much anyone and anything and moaning about it is not good. The mass driver, I still see the odd one around and to be honest I have been in a few situations recently where I wish I had one. Especially on that map that ALWAYS has really low framerate where one of the objectives in skirmish is in that missile silo / open indoor bit where you can orbital the enemies. (Right near the underground supply depot) Oh by the way - Standard MD VS standard / militia fit suits (Especially scouts) is still scary! Maybe that changes when you run proto all day errryday. It is trust me. Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 4 STB-Infantry (Demolition)
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 853	Posted - 2014.01.26 04:29:00 - [56] - Quote I think they are great for the role. Right now you can't really just spec into MD's and use it as main in all games. It's one of those things that you use in some matches where situational tactical play calls for it. You will not earn much WP and mostly score only several assists but you will make a very good contribution to the team by flushing red dots. I would only change WP rewards on the weapon to increase them - for example extend the time interval from dealing damage to when Assist is earned. It's my understanding that unless a red dots dies before repping hp you don't get assist WP. This does not really fit MD role well where frequently you use it effectively to push red dots out while not having them killed within a short time window to earn the assist. If you set a strict time parameter - for example 30 sec for MD assists you could rip the rewards of MD more reliably. Oh, sht! I just learned you can make a signature! Thanks, CCP! Forums are getting better!
McFurious TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 569	Posted - 2014.01.26 04:55:00 - [57] - Quote Splash damage/radius is pretty good for crowd control, just needs more direct hit damage. Also, more ammo. Nanohive nerfs are going to hurt it badly. Half Irish. Often angry. Closed Beta Masshole Durka durka.... Bitch.


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