DUST Search - CPM Iron Wolf Saber

Iron Wolf Saber wrote:

Heavy Salvo wrote:

WELL insofar we have the Vehicle perspective although it seems as though you are quite upset he & the other pilots aren't looking at this from the infantry perspective and I'm assuming also disregarding the "free candy syndrome" you brought up at the beginning of this whole thing.

well then let me get your opinion on this,Saber, what exactly do you think is unfair in regards to a full respec in 1.7 from an infantry perspective?

I'm on the fence which is why Takahiro is sort of hurting the entire conversation because he's pushing me away from wanting to side with the respeccers because by his logic it would be far more effective to redesign the tree which I wont also argue but its an entirely seperate issue.

For
Players are bored with their current fits.

Some have made mistakes

Players are feeling left out because they may have made the mistake of speccing into infantry when vehicles was their real calling.

Against
Free Candy Syndrome - the idea of a free respec at the time of anything gets nerfed, this behavior was well established back in beta and there are plenty of people who are very hard at letting go.

Future Prospects - In combination with FCS this will hurt any potential to monetize the and automate the system if it ever gets developed on because it was something offered regularly for free and now has to be paid for. Buy 1 get 2 free is now buy 1 get one 1 free type of backlash.

Notation
See how 0 of these points have to do with the horrible tree design?

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Django Quik Dust2Dust. 1810	Posted - 2013.12.01 21:53:00 - [31] - Quote I love anti-CPM threads; it's like people hating on the current president/prime-minister - it's pointless because they're there for their full term and you won't be getting rid of them until that time is up (with the very rare occasions of massive misconduct exceptions). You're stuck with these guys until CCP decides otherwise, so quit b*tching about them. If and when there are elections, then is the time to voice your displeasure about them. Now, you are just wasting forum space on all this nonsense. Dust2Dust - Funeral arrangements for all of New Eden. Join our public channel D2D. to chat and squad with us.
Necandi Brasil DUST BRASIL S.A Covert Intervention 510	Posted - 2013.12.01 21:55:00 - [32] - Quote Our CPM guys are really good. Wouldn't even bother try to make them look bad. A DUST BRASIL S.A precisa de você ! Junte-se a nós ! Hey CCP, give me PvE!
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 251	Posted - 2013.12.01 22:03:00 - [33] - Quote Django Quik wrote: I love anti-CPM threads; it's like people hating on the current president/prime-minister - it's pointless because they're there for their full term and you won't be getting rid of them until that time is up (with the very rare occasions of massive misconduct exceptions). You're stuck with these guys until CCP decides otherwise, so quit b*tching about them. If and when there are elections, then is the time to voice your displeasure about them. Now, you are just wasting forum space on all this nonsense. I agree, though I find it foolish that we can't display any displeasure over them. And in real life, it's not pointless to express displeasure over your leader (well kinda, considering it's our senate and house that make the laws). Ever heard of the news, they are great at swaying public opinion with hate/love for the leader!!! Nuff Said
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 10910	Posted - 2013.12.01 22:08:00 - [34] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Tebu Gan wrote: Is being a douche again Why is this guy our CPM. This is no community representative that I want. He simply shuts out idea and people he does not like or can understand. And actually goes around calling people out on them, all the while insulting. The hell man, should I expect better of a CPM? I beat him up in a game. I went 15-13, he went 2-7. I was using all BPO, he was using ADV ISK gear. The only time he killed me was a shotgun from behind. All my kills, I had on him while he knew I was engaging him. I was responsible for 3-4 of his deaths. Cept for two of the grenades you tossed I didn't see you at all in the area (neither did any other of the blues but meh) Also only the weapons I have was advanced (this currently excludes grenades as well). I have only access to adv dampeners module wise and nothing else anywhere. Also was kitting out a plasma cannon logi fit at the time. Trying out a gallente demolitions role there, of course I expect bad KDR. Thinking of putting on kit kats for mobility and maybe sensor amps and a better nanohive once I go advanced logi suit. And of course get better with the PLC Longest range kill so far has been 60 meters and random guessing. Not like my mass drivers where I can reliably get a round within 5 meters on the first shot and zeroing in usually in 2 or 3 more. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Electronics =// Unlocked
R F Gyro Clones 4u 712	Posted - 2013.12.01 22:14:00 - [35] - Quote Tebu Gan wrote: R F Gyro wrote: The only people I see IWS insulting are people acting like dcks; trolling, flaming, raging, etc. I have never seen him insult someone who was posting a well articulated opinion in a calm, reasonable manner, even when he has obviously disagreed with that opinion. So he has to stoop to their level, to deal with them. Sounds childish to me. Possibly. Or just that he has little tolerance for whiners. Regardless, I've never seen him insult someone that I didn't think deserved it. But back to the specific point I was responding to though.... Tebu Gan wrote:* Insulting those with differing opinions than your own is not the way to go about it. He doesn't insult people because they have different opinions to him; he insults people who are acting like dcks. RF Gyro: 12.5% damage bonus; 10.5% rate of fire bonus*
Robocop Junior Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 394	Posted - 2013.12.01 22:20:00 - [36] - Quote Atiim for CPM hip hip hooray!
Cenex Langly 0uter.Heaven Proficiency V. 432	Posted - 2013.12.01 22:23:00 - [37] - Quote Tebu Gan wrote: Is being a douche again Why is this guy our CPM. This is no community representative that I want. He simply shuts out idea and people he does not like or can understand. And actually goes around calling people out on them, all the while insulting. The hell man, should I expect better of a CPM? You sad bro? Newb
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 251	Posted - 2013.12.01 22:26:00 - [38] - Quote R F Gyro wrote: Tebu Gan wrote: R F Gyro wrote: The only people I see IWS insulting are people acting like dcks; trolling, flaming, raging, etc. I have never seen him insult someone who was posting a well articulated opinion in a calm, reasonable manner, even when he has obviously disagreed with that opinion. So he has to stoop to their level, to deal with them. Sounds childish to me. Possibly. Or just that he has little tolerance for whiners. Regardless, I've never seen him insult someone that I didn't think deserved it. But back to the specific point I was responding to though.... Tebu Gan wrote:* Insulting those with differing opinions than your own is not the way to go about it. He doesn't insult people because they have different opinions to him; he insults people who are acting like d*cks. So when IWS addressed all the "winers" over the BPO refund, they were acting like dicks? I saw them as upset over the fact that nothing on the market compares to the value of a BPO. It's easy to get caught up in the bullshit, and start spewing bullshit of your own. He didn't think the "winers" had a valid point or opinion, so he felt it necessary to insult that side of the community. I'll admit, I've done my fair share of useless ranting and raging, but does it make sense to punch a pissed off bull in the face? Nuff Said
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 251	Posted - 2013.12.01 22:27:00 - [39] - Quote Cenex Langly wrote: Tebu Gan wrote: Is being a douche again Why is this guy our CPM. This is no community representative that I want. He simply shuts out idea and people he does not like or can understand. And actually goes around calling people out on them, all the while insulting. The hell man, should I expect better of a CPM? You sad bro? You know I like trolls right. Troll tears are the best Nuff Said
Kane Fyea 2298	Posted - 2013.12.01 22:35:00 - [40] - Quote Tebu Gan wrote: R F Gyro wrote: Tebu Gan wrote: R F Gyro wrote: The only people I see IWS insulting are people acting like dcks; trolling, flaming, raging, etc. I have never seen him insult someone who was posting a well articulated opinion in a calm, reasonable manner, even when he has obviously disagreed with that opinion. So he has to stoop to their level, to deal with them. Sounds childish to me. Possibly. Or just that he has little tolerance for whiners. Regardless, I've never seen him insult someone that I didn't think deserved it. But back to the specific point I was responding to though.... Tebu Gan wrote:* Insulting those with differing opinions than your own is not the way to go about it. He doesn't insult people because they have different opinions to him; he insults people who are acting like d*cks. So when IWS addressed all the "winers" over the BPO refund, they were acting like dicks? I saw them as upset over the fact that nothing on the market compares to the value of a BPO. It's easy to get caught up in the bullshit, and start spewing bullshit of your own. He didn't think the "winers" had a valid point or opinion, so he felt it necessary to insult that side of the community. I'll admit, I've done my fair share of useless ranting and raging, but does it make sense to punch a pissed off bull in the face? Instead of saying "IWS did this or that" you should show specific posts where you think he was acting in a way that he shouldn't otherwise most people will just think you're trying to slander him. Pretty much I'm saying show us proof of him being a bad representative of the community otherwise it just seems that he had differing opinions and you just didn't like that.

lok rark StealthSquad 11	Posted - 2013.12.01 22:37:00 - [41] - Quote We dont need people to tell us HTFU Scrub.... like IWS When I have genuine issues I need fixed, I would like a representative to be a voice for ME against CCP. Someone fair. IWS is the biggest CCP fangirl in the game, who blatantly jumps to the defence of CCP whatever the issue is WITHOUT first assessing the real situation. He and CPM are not helping blueberrys. Only the players are. Dont like my opinion, Go file a mythical ticket in fairyland.
R F Gyro Clones 4u 714	Posted - 2013.12.01 22:39:00 - [42] - Quote Tebu Gan wrote: So when IWS addressed all the "winers" over the BPO refund, they were acting like dicks? I saw them as upset over the fact that nothing on the market compares to the value of a BPO. It's easy to get caught up in the bullshit, and start spewing bullshit of your own. He didn't think the "winers" had a valid point or opinion, so he felt it necessary to insult that side of the community. I'll admit, I've done my fair share of useless ranting and raging, but does it make sense to punch a pissed off bull in the face? Could you link the post in question? RF Gyro: 12.5% damage bonus; 10.5% rate of fire bonus
Kane Fyea 2298	Posted - 2013.12.01 22:40:00 - [43] - Quote Kane Fyea wrote: Tebu Gan wrote: R F Gyro wrote: Tebu Gan wrote: So he has to stoop to their level, to deal with them. Sounds childish to me. Possibly. Or just that he has little tolerance for whiners. Regardless, I've never seen him insult someone that I didn't think deserved it. But back to the specific point I was responding to though.... Tebu Gan wrote: Insulting those with differing opinions than your own is not the way to go about it. He doesn't insult people because they have different opinions to him; he insults people who are acting like d*cks. So when IWS addressed all the "winers" over the BPO refund, they were acting like dicks? I saw them as upset over the fact that nothing on the market compares to the value of a BPO. It's easy to get caught up in the bullshit, and start spewing bullshit of your own. He didn't think the "winers" had a valid point or opinion, so he felt it necessary to insult that side of the community. I'll admit, I've done my fair share of useless ranting and raging, but does it make sense to punch a pissed off bull in the face? Instead of saying "IWS did this or that" you should show specific posts where you think he was acting in a way that he shouldn't otherwise most people will just think you're trying to slander him. Pretty much I'm saying show us proof of him being a bad representative of the community otherwise it just seems that he had differing opinions and you just didn't like that. ....
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 251	Posted - 2013.12.01 22:52:00 - [44] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I strongly believe the word sink should be banned from this debate as its hurting the primary argument of fairity between infantry and vehicle operators. Focus folks. Doesn't understand the idea of focus Now this thread is about redesigning the skill tree. Thank you Takahiro for enlightening our ignorance. I really do not know how IWS came up with the idea that redesigning the skill tree was what Takahiro was about. Yes I see this as an insult, considering the man's posts had nothing to do with what IWS has "assumed". Nuff Said
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 251	Posted - 2013.12.01 22:53:00 - [45] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: [quote=Takahiro Kashuken] Keep changing it to suit your needs but its a SINK Vehicle tree in 1.7 is a SINK - fact I wouldnt have mind it being a SINK if it was changed at least 6months ago so i knew how much SP i needed excatly to flesh out the vehicle tree because if i knew 6months ago that the tree would be such a SP SINK i wouldnt have gone into infantry at all or i could have gone all into infantry and had 4 diff proto suits with 4 proto weapons and all core skills by now You can delete all this text again but you cant delete the fact that the SP needed for the vehicle tree has been increased by a factor of 3 Not including missing racial vehicles/turrets/mods/skills/pilot suits/more mods/more skills I did a quick count, i can SINK into the 1.7 vehicle tree about 60mil SP roughly and thats nearly everything at level 5, including all missing things that could be 100mil of SP which is about 3 years worth at least, using boosters for every week, active and passive So how about you focus on the fact that the vehicle tree has been turned into more of a SINK with 3times the SP needed Lets double the sink then! Another useless posts, that actually seeks to derail the conversation at hand. The OP of this thread spoke of the fairness being neglected when it came to infantry in 1.7. I see a point there. Taki on the other hand made a good point from the tankers view on 1.7 and the respec. Totally on subject I thought. Not according to IWS Nuff Said
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 251	Posted - 2013.12.01 22:54:00 - [46] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Heavy Salvo wrote: WELL insofar we have the Vehicle perspective although it seems as though you are quite upset he & the other pilots aren't looking at this from the infantry perspective and I'm assuming also disregarding the "free candy syndrome" you brought up at the beginning of this whole thing. well then let me get your opinion on this,Saber, what exactly do you think is unfair in regards to a full respec in 1.7 from an infantry perspective? I'm on the fence which is why Takahiro is sort of hurting the entire conversation because he's pushing me away from wanting to side with the respeccers because by his logic it would be far more effective to redesign the tree which I wont also argue but its an entirely seperate issue. For Players are bored with their current fits. Some have made mistakes Players are feeling left out because they may have made the mistake of speccing into infantry when vehicles was their real calling. Against Free Candy Syndrome - the idea of a free respec at the time of anything gets nerfed, this behavior was well established back in beta and there are plenty of people who are very hard at letting go. Future Prospects - In combination with FCS this will hurt any potential to monetize the and automate the system if it ever gets developed on because it was something offered regularly for free and now has to be paid for. Buy 1 get 2 free is now buy 1 get one 1 free type of backlash. Notation See how 0 of these points have to do with the horrible tree design? Now suddenly, it's taki hurting the conversation and his opinion? HOW??? OP wrote a good piece about how infantry feel hurt, and Taki took it and showed how tankers are getting hurt by the new "SP SINK". 2 sides of the same story, but Taki has already derailed the conversation somehow. He has isolated taki, and calls him the PROBLEM. This is my problem, if he wanted to make a thread about respecs in general, then fine. But the discussion was about 1.7 partial respecs. And how those affected by it feel. There is no right or wrong answer, and all input should be taken. Nuff Said
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 10913	Posted - 2013.12.01 23:00:00 - [47] - Quote Takahiro came into the thread talking about how the tree was a sink, in a thread that has nothing to do with the poorly designed tree and to be honest I didn't want to hear it again in a thread that tried to reasonably explain the need for a respec that made it somewhat agreeable to fight for that side. Sink is an entirely separate topic. Period. I am extraordinary annoyed at the tree myself (and I have a really good idea what the future tree looks like and I find it revolting unfortunately I cannot share details because of NDA but I am doing my best to chop that thing down when possible) but the idiot won't let me be on his side ever, so there is no need to entertain him ever. So best to let him burn out of the way so more level headed folks can come forward when it comes time to argue the tree design. I am able to choose who I want to represent as well; the calm, level headed, clear thinking, reserved logical folks I am more than willing to fight for. Irate, short minded, unfocused, trolltastic, jagged stone heads need not to apply to my constituency, go bother Nova Knife with that he's willing to tolerate that sort of abusive talk. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Electronics =// Unlocked
R F Gyro Clones 4u 714	Posted - 2013.12.01 23:04:00 - [48] - Quote Sorry Tebu but nothing you've posted there comes across as particularly insulting to me. It looks like a reasonably articulate internet debate, on both sides, to me: Tak is trying to widen the debate, IWS trying to keep it focussed, Maybe a dash of sarcasm in there, but nothing I'd consider unreasonable. RF Gyro: 12.5% damage bonus; 10.5% rate of fire bonus
R F Gyro Clones 4u 714	Posted - 2013.12.01 23:06:00 - [49] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: ...the idiot... ...annnnnnd there goes IWS jumping in to prove your point Tebu. RF Gyro: 12.5% damage bonus; 10.5% rate of fire bonus
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 10914	Posted - 2013.12.01 23:10:00 - [50] - Quote Let's also mention the debate over the 'sink' from Takahiro is about 4 months old and has destroyed about 6 threads so far. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Electronics =// Unlocked

Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 253	Posted - 2013.12.01 23:14:00 - [51] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Takahiro came into the thread talking about how the tree was a sink, in a thread that has nothing to do with the poorly designed tree and to be honest I didn't want to hear it again in a thread that tried to reasonably explain the need for a respec that made it somewhat agreeable to fight for that side. Sink is an entirely separate topic. Period. I am extraordinary annoyed at the tree myself (and I have a really good idea what the future tree looks like and I find it revolting unfortunately I cannot share details because of NDA but I am doing my best to chop that thing down when possible) but the idiot won't let me be on his side ever, so there is no need to entertain him ever. So best to let him burn out of the way so more level headed folks can come forward when it comes time to argue the tree design. I cannot agree with the banning of SINK from the discussion, as I see that it does play a part in the OP's discussion. And how does this have anything to do with the skill tree? Agreed it does need to go, but how does him introducing the bigger SP sink us tankers now have to dump points into lead to a discussion about the tree? I thought it was all about 1.7 partial respecs tankers get to enjoy, either for tanks or full on infantry. And how Infantry will get no such favor (though given their trees are unchanged). It was about the tanker going into full on infantry. And how that seemed unfair for infantry. Then the tanker brings up the point that we didn't have this sink before, so now must build up even more SP to be as useful in our role as before. As most of us tankers have went to suit roles as a secondary after getting the points into tanks up where needed. So, as I see it, Taki made a point against the infantry, showing that even though we may be getting our points back from tanks, some of us won't have enough to be as effective as before. So infantry kinda miss out, and us tankers will kinda miss out. 2 sides of the same story, IWS. And there you go again, calling someone an idiot because they don't see the world your way. Grow up. Nuff Said
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 253	Posted - 2013.12.01 23:15:00 - [52] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Let's also mention the debate over the 'sink' from Takahiro is about 4 months old and has destroyed about 6 threads so far. 4 months? We didn't know about the sink 4 months ago, nor partial respecs? Nuff Said
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 1496	Posted - 2013.12.01 23:18:00 - [53] - Quote I actually kinda like IWS. He may not like to bend over for people and sugarcoat things, but usually what he's saying is correct, and he does get work done when he needs to. Why does everyone hate IWS? I don't see anything wrong with him. My Very First Thread About Tanks -HAND
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 10915	Posted - 2013.12.01 23:21:00 - [54] - Quote Tebu Gan wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Let's also mention the debate over the 'sink' from Takahiro is about 4 months old and has destroyed about 6 threads so far. 4 months? We didn't know about the sink 4 months ago, nor partial respecs? Oh? be careful who you try to defend then. He's been at this for a while and as others mentioned here they already know about it. I suspect he may had started his crusade before uprising 1.0 but didn't run into me about 4 months ago. Also I do class Tak into the 'hard to deal with' category, the sort of folks if you give them a wide variety of possible solutions to the issue they reject everything because they seemingly don't know what they want either. The type of folk that don't want the cake to eat it too. They're more in love with the idea of a cake that doesn't exist nor will ever exist and eating that one. The sort of people that well ultimately the CPM would be worst to dealing with because we're not game designers. Just think of us as the little devil or little angle on the shoulders of the developers. The devs are more than capable of ignoring both of those little guys. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Electronics =// Unlocked
Surt gods end Demon Ronin 1231	Posted - 2013.12.01 23:22:00 - [55] - Quote That silly taki is always against infantry. If a 7/11 is down the street and he couldn't take his tank, well he's not going! **
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 10915	Posted - 2013.12.01 23:23:00 - [56] - Quote Surt gods end wrote: That silly taki is always against infantry. If a 7/11 is down the street and he couldn't take his tank, well he's not going! ** /me used to live where there was 4 7-11s on each corner of the cross walk intersection. Then another 8 at the end of the blocks nearby. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Electronics =// Unlocked
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 253	Posted - 2013.12.01 23:42:00 - [57] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Tebu Gan wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Let's also mention the debate over the 'sink' from Takahiro is about 4 months old and has destroyed about 6 threads so far. 4 months? We didn't know about the sink 4 months ago, nor partial respecs? Oh? be careful who you try to defend then. He's been at this for a while and as others mentioned here they already know about it. I suspect he may had started his crusade before uprising 1.0 but didn't run into me about 4 months ago. Also I do class Tak into the 'hard to deal with' category, the sort of folks if you give them a wide variety of possible solutions to the issue they reject everything because they seemingly don't know what they want either. The type of folk that don't want the cake to eat it too. They're more in love with the idea of a cake that doesn't exist nor will ever exist and eating that one. The sort of people that well ultimately the CPM would be worst to dealing with because we're not game designers. Just think of us as the little devil or little angle on the shoulders of the developers. The devs are more than capable of ignoring both of those little guys. Be careful who I defend? Is that a threat fella. I for one don't defend "people", but Ideas. It would seem you have some bad blood with this particular individual. So you bring up past discussions with this person, in a thread where it has no relevance, because you assume ulterior motives. I don't know Taki, and in all honesty, as an introvert, don't care to. So when I look at a post, I don't look to who posted, I look at what was posted. Who posted it hardly has any relevance. So what if you have a hard head to deal with, it's not your place to judge. Only listen. Quit making assumptions about the people posting and actually pay attention to what's being said, not only that that meshes with your thinking. Or that that does not. As a CPM that does take our ideas to CCP, regardless of whether they care to listen or not, I expect better of you. More open and free thought, not a bashing of people you think are wrong and Illogical. I really hope that your position isn't paid. Otherwise CCP is paying you to bash on their customers when you see fit. Namely because they are "stupid". Such a nasty, ugly word, and has no place in critical thinking. Nuff Said
jenza aranda BetaMax. 2293	Posted - 2013.12.01 23:45:00 - [58] - Quote daishi mk03 wrote: jenza best cpm <3 Dust 514 101 // Dust 514 Wiki
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 253	Posted - 2013.12.01 23:48:00 - [59] - Quote jenza aranda wrote: daishi mk03 wrote: jenza best cpm <3 This thread needs more <3 's. Putting my ***** away now. lol Nuff Said
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 10917	Posted - 2013.12.01 23:51:00 - [60] - Quote Ideas are meant to be shattered into millions of pieces so that the best shards of them can be picked up and glued into something better. Also Ideas don't have feelings, emotion, agendas lesser than the truths, and the truly greatest of ideas requires no mortal guardians. Maybe a custodian but certainly no metaphorical shield. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Electronics =// Unlocked



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