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switch logi and cammando on skill trees and tweak their stats

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ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn 584	Posted - 2013.11.26 18:49:00 - [1] - Quote (moved from general) just an idea that popped into my head. how would you feel if logis and commandos switched places on the skill tree i.e logi becomes a modified heavy suit inheriting its better arm/shield stats but also its speed debuff. and the commando joins the assault tree as a heavy assault variant currently we have logi suits which most assaulters prefer because they can be better tanked yet still pack a punch then we have the commando which is less of a heavy but more than an assault yet due to its customisation restrictions and the fact its in the heavy tree most assault players wont go near it. it seems to me the commando is where the assault should be after progressing past assault suits while heavys built for survival would better suit passing on their survival to logis. look at it this way assault - 1 light/1side, medium tank commando - 2 light ,heavy tank heavy - 1 heavy/1side , heavy tank logi - 1 light ,heavy tank it seems to me the progression of a assault orientated suit is to gain more firepower and more ehp which is why logis seem to be prefered method instead of a heavy suit. the logis aim is to stay alive as long as possible so he can heal etc yet still defend themselfs. it makes sense to me they would fit the best possible defences which is what brings logis and assault suits so close together in comparison. when you break it down assaults and commandos are designed to assault positions. when you look at heavys they are more support than assault because of the short range of the mg they are more suppressive and the forge is basically an anti tank gun though it has been utilised by the skilled at sniping players but primarily it adopts a support role as you couldn't assault effectively with it. this brings us onto the logi. its used for both because the gap between assaults and logis is too small giving one the edge in combat. i think the change above and some tweaks to stats could balance allot of the issues we currently have out i am not trying to nerf anything just sort out the blared lines and get some balance back into this game. i am a logi with all logi suits past 3 apart from the gallente which i am working on. something like this wouldn't stop me doing my role and it would be nice to see a noticable gap between logis and assaults https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
ADAM-OF-EVE Dead Man's Game 897	Posted - 2014.02.02 03:21:00 - [2] - Quote bumpelstiltskin I will logi the s* out of you https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 706	Posted - 2014.02.02 04:33:00 - [3] - Quote I hadn't thought of taking this approach and I don't know if I'm entirely sold on it...BUT...it's a really novel way of looking at the problem. Conceptually it's spot on. "Third star to the right...straight ahead 'till morning."
ADAM-OF-EVE Dead Man's Game 900	Posted - 2014.02.02 04:52:00 - [4] - Quote Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: I hadn't thought of taking this approach and I don't know if I'm entirely sold on it...BUT...it's a really novel way of looking at the problem. Conceptually it's spot on. well it just seems appropriate when you actually look at the stats when everyone is doing their role as the role is expected to perform. (not accurate) assault suit - approx 6-800 ehp tops average speed and fitting potential commando - approx 8-1000 ehp(i believe), slightly less speed and fitting potential but more combat potential heavy suit - 1-1500 ehp, high dps slow, very limited fitting potential logi suit - 800-1000 ehp, low dps, slow, very high fitting potential thats when everyone is following the traditional roles. as you see they are more comparable to each other in specific ways which i think are more important to base balancing and skilling on. ehp is most important to heavies and logis (fulfilling the traditional support role). where as the assault and commando are more all round combat suits which is more important for them. with a change like this logis could be given the ehp they need in their stats allowing for their fitting potential to be lowered to a point where they can fulfill many roles still but less combat orientated and the commando could be reduced stats but increased fitting potential bringing it inline with assaults I will logi the s* out of you https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
Auris Lionesse Capital Acquisitions LLC Renegade Alliance 123	Posted - 2014.02.02 06:25:00 - [5] - Quote Commandoes should go to a newintermediate level between medium and heavy. The battlecruiser of suits where heavies are battleships and mediums are cruisers.
ADAM-OF-EVE Dead Man's Game 904	Posted - 2014.02.02 07:03:00 - [6] - Quote Auris Lionesse wrote: Commandoes should go to a newintermediate level between medium and heavy. The battlecruiser of suits where heavies are battleships and mediums are cruisers. in an ideal world it would have been assault - commando - heavy - MTAC - tank scout \........................./ dropship ............. \|----- logi------\| medic /........................\ MAV giving us a natural progression of firepower and armor or armor and support capibility I will logi the s* out of you https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
Glitch116 On The Brink CRONOS. 35	Posted - 2014.02.02 07:12:00 - [7] - Quote no logis need to be more about movement and avoiding direct confrontation not being big fat bricks I AM THE KING OF THE BLASTER!!! deal with it
ADAM-OF-EVE Dead Man's Game 904	Posted - 2014.02.02 07:23:00 - [8] - Quote Glitch116 wrote: no logis need to be more about movement and avoiding direct confrontation not being big fat bricks and how does that help the mini logi. besides who says they can't do that in the heavy tree. the commando manages to do that but the commando is closer to an assault than it is a heavy. key here is to remove logistics from the path of the assault so as not to be balanced against them. as for speed well first they don't carry a heavy weapon so base suit speed will increase. they dont pack as much base arm so base speed up again. remember this suggestion will offer up higher base ehp stats in place of some of the fitting potential we currently get allowing us to fit for speed or tank or utility but not everything like we currently can I will logi the s* out of you https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
xXCleopatra FlippantXx Red Star. EoN. 33	Posted - 2014.02.02 07:32:00 - [9] - Quote I think it would be cool if the logi got only bonuses to repairing stuffs and as a tanker, to be made a kinda slow suit, like the commando? A suit to only encurage repping and increasing the surviverability of doing it. Is what "I" think lol
Glitch116 On The Brink CRONOS. 36	Posted - 2014.02.02 07:33:00 - [10] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Glitch116 wrote: no logis need to be more about movement and avoiding direct confrontation not being big fat bricks and how does that help the mini logi. besides who says they can't do that in the heavy tree. the commando manages to do that but the commando is closer to an assault than it is a heavy. key here is to remove logistics from the path of the assault so as not to be balanced against them. as for speed well first they don't carry a heavy weapon so base suit speed will increase. they dont pack as much base arm so base speed up again. remember this suggestion will offer up higher base ehp stats in place of some of the fitting potential we currently get allowing us to fit for speed or tank or utility but not everything like we currently can logis need to be able to move into and out of combat so they can make better use of their equipment logis should be the fastest med suits but have the lower hitpoints to make up for this this turns logis into the support role as now they can't stand toe to toe with other suits as they will not have the EHP but they instead have the ability to disengage from tougher suits this creates a role for everyone where assults get the better EHP to slug it out in a firefight where as the logi moves more to a background support using there equipment to help the assults or by using speed to out manuver the enemy a logi could still use their high fitting to move into the assults area but never be able to beat it by giving logis more EHP and a larger frame you take away their ability to spread equipment or help where they are needed I AM THE KING OF THE BLASTER!!! deal with it

ADAM-OF-EVE Dead Man's Game 904	Posted - 2014.02.02 07:37:00 - [11] - Quote xXCleopatra FlippantXx wrote: I think it would be cool if the logi got only bonuses to repairing stuffs and as a tanker, to be made a kinda slow suit, like the commando? A suit to only encurage repping and increasing the surviverability of doing it. Is what "I" think lol until they are separated there isn't much hope of good balancing taking place. at least this way the suit could be balance between the four races as a role and not as the four races and the four assault variants balance to each other. I will logi the s* out of you https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
ADAM-OF-EVE Dead Man's Game 906	Posted - 2014.02.02 07:58:00 - [12] - Quote Glitch116 wrote: logis need to be able to move into and out of combat so they can make better use of their equipment logis should be the fastest med suits but have the lower hitpoints to make up for this this turns logis into the support role as now they can't stand toe to toe with other suits as they will not have the EHP but they instead have the ability to disengage from tougher suits this creates a role for everyone where assults get the better EHP to slug it out in a firefight where as the logi moves more to a background support using there equipment to help the assults or by using speed to out manuver the enemy a logi could still use their high fitting to move into the assults area but never be able to beat it by giving logis more EHP and a larger frame you take away their ability to spread equipment or help where they are needed i used to use feroscale on my mini logi in order to speed about just as you suggested and it was the weakest logi setup i ever had. it would be 2 shot by pretty much anything we are only having issues because of the assault logi debate. the logistics suits have been balanced as assaults with the new assaults in mind which makes assaulting in them on pretty much equal terms but our logi ability has been completely screwed up. only a none logi or a fake logi can't see this. we cannot balance logistics suits if they still have the ability to be turned into assaults. its an impossibility. the only way it can be done is if they are removed from comparability and redesigned to remove the reasons they were allowed to work that way in the first place and replace what is lost by adding it to the base stats and the skill bonuses. I will logi the s* out of you https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
Meee One The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 267	Posted - 2014.02.02 10:43:00 - [13] - Quote I know i'm going to regret saying this... But it makes sense with the obscene amount of gear logis can carry. It would make sense that a heavy logi could carry it all. They could retexture the suits and change colors,then swap suit layout. The only way it would be feasible is if they kept the layout 100% the same. But i just can't see myself going turtle speed and being an effective active battle support logi. But i can see new heavy logi slayers,like the "heavies with light weapons" topic that's so popular right now. Sexy jutsu Time to jaaam!
KalOfTheRathi Nec Tributis 945	Posted - 2014.02.02 11:12:00 - [14] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: bumpelstiltskin You realize they have already made major changes for Commando, right? Guess what isn't gonna happen. Yep, your idea. Maybe in a few releases/patches past 1.8 but no time soon. They need to determine that the Commando is working on 1.8, then they will use your idea if it will break the suit.
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 563	Posted - 2014.02.02 12:03:00 - [15] - Quote I would rather see the commando to be a light frame, making commanods heavy frames never made sense to me...
ADAM-OF-EVE Dead Man's Game 909	Posted - 2014.02.02 12:07:00 - [16] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: I would rather see the commando to be a light frame, making commanods heavy frames never made sense to me... thats what im getting at. it has more in common with an assault suit than it does a heavy I will logi the s* out of you https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 564	Posted - 2014.02.02 12:11:00 - [17] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Korvin Lomont wrote: I would rather see the commando to be a light frame, making commanods heavy frames never made sense to me... thats what im getting at. it has more in common with an assault suit than it does a heavy Yeah but I tink the most sense would make a light suit I mean the commando shoukd be some sort of covert ops operating behind enemy lines in small groups, but I guess Medium frames could work as well...
ADAM-OF-EVE Dead Man's Game 910	Posted - 2014.02.02 12:19:00 - [18] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Korvin Lomont wrote: I would rather see the commando to be a light frame, making commanods heavy frames never made sense to me... thats what im getting at. it has more in common with an assault suit than it does a heavy Yeah but I tink the most sense would make a light suit I mean the commando shoukd be some sort of covert ops operating behind enemy lines in small groups, but I guess Medium frames could work as well... a commando is just a little bit more specialised than a regular soldier which is what they are in dust and RL. there is nothing special ops about them. the difference is skills make it look like a heavy and not the assault it actually is I will logi the s* out of you https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
ADAM-OF-EVE Dead Man's Game 987	Posted - 2014.02.12 18:54:00 - [19] - Quote bump I will logi the s* out of you https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
Awry Barux New Eden Blades Of The Azure Zero-Day 521	Posted - 2014.02.12 18:57:00 - [20] - Quote Eh. I like the idea of commandos being a medium size frame (black eagle scout too sexy), but it's crucial that logis have fairly comparable (slightly slower, but not by much) speed to assaults, to keep up with a quick push. A logi 50m back isn't much use.

ADAM-OF-EVE Dead Man's Game 993	Posted - 2014.02.12 19:07:00 - [21] - Quote Awry Barux wrote: Eh. I like the idea of commandos being a medium size frame (black eagle scout too sexy), but it's crucial that logis have fairly comparable (slightly slower, but not by much) speed to assaults, to keep up with a quick push. A logi 50m back isn't much use. well thats just a stats issue. who is to say the logi suit can't be a heavy suit with all its plates stripped off. basicly its a exoskeleton. this has extreme carry capacity and is fitted with inherent ferroscale armor to reduce its weight (in the base stats) this brings its speed upto an assaults level but a higher armor. cpu/pg could be reduced now with slot count to balance the suit out and prevent extreme role changes I will logi the s* out of you https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
bogeyman m Learning Coalition College 83	Posted - 2014.02.13 00:46:00 - [22] - Quote A lighter, Assault-based Commando suit makes sense to me, but a Heavy-based Logi does not. Nanite Injectors and Repair Tools are front line equipment that require a bit of speed to keep up with the action. (I think Logis are already too slow.) If the concern is about the logic of Logis carrying so much equipment while carrying a "full sized" Light Weapon, just limit us to lighter weight Sidearm. Solved. Why would you have to move the Logi anyway? Why not move the Commando and leave the Logi where it is?
shady merc RisingSuns 41	Posted - 2014.02.13 06:02:00 - [23] - Quote I think the upcoming changes are going to help the things you are concerned about. Currently there are 2 massive problems causing the logi to be a better assault then assault. 1 the amount of CPU and pg a logi receives compared to an assault. CPU/pg is what everything is balanced around and this breaks that mold. In turn the logi can fit better modules all around then the assault and carry equipment. Brining down the logi CPU/pg then giving them a bonus to fitting the equipment will solve this part 2. Ttk is to low that sidearms don't matter. This effect is basically gimping the assault class only. The heavy need it due to long reloads on the hmg. For the forge gun it gives them a close range weapon. The scout typically uses it for range increase if using the shotgun. Or they fit NK to be deadly and quiet and use their light weapon to make up for the range lost. Commandos receive 2 light weapons and benefit from using one niche weapon and one rifle. The assault should use it to finish a fight and continue to push an enemy when they reload. However since nearly every fire fight ends before the need to swap to your sidearm the assault suit is basically being nerfed 1slot due to the Ttk. Fixing these 2 items will make drastic changes in balancing the assault And logi class. Just noticed i replied to the wrong post. Meant for a different post of yours.
ADAM-OF-EVE Dead Man's Game 997	Posted - 2014.02.13 16:32:00 - [24] - Quote shady merc wrote: I think the upcoming changes are going to help the things you are concerned about. Currently there are 2 massive problems causing the logi to be a better assault then assault. 1 the amount of CPU and pg a logi receives compared to an assault. CPU/pg is what everything is balanced around and this breaks that mold. In turn the logi can fit better modules all around then the assault and carry equipment. Brining down the logi CPU/pg then giving them a bonus to fitting the equipment will solve this part Just noticed i replied to the wrong post. Meant for a different post of yours. regardless this is precisely what support logis have a problem with. we are being balance not as support logis against assaults but as assault logis against assaults. me in my full support role with advanced prety much everything except the suit and rep tool and i melt to standard and adv dropsuits who get the drop on me. my slightly more tankier and lower quality equip suits stand a better chance of survival but with the new changes my tank is lower and i have to fit pro equip to get the same benefit of what adv is now. so logi fits are going to skyrocket in price and we are going to be weaker at the same time. meanwhile the assault logi is still doing the same thing pretty much unchanged but at a similar level to assaults players think they are getting screwed over by assault logis but no one is stopping you going into a logi suit to compete. the reverse can't be said for support logis. we only have the logi suit. we don't balance heavies and scouts against assaults so why logis. this is why they need to be separated completely and balanced as a separate entity. I will logi the s* out of you https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
ADAM-OF-EVE Dead Man's Game 1087	Posted - 2014.02.25 22:35:00 - [25] - Quote bump I will logi the s* out of you https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
ADAM-OF-EVE Dead Man's Game 1151	Posted - 2014.04.03 19:12:00 - [26] - Quote i honestly don't see any reason to use a logi over other suits anymore to do any of the traditional logi tasks. I will logi the s* out of you https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
ADAM-OF-EVE Dead Man's Game 1248	Posted - 2014.04.18 09:53:00 - [27] - Quote i still think this would go a long way to bringing more survivability to logis without making them op or open to abuse I will logi the s* out of you https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
Ecshon Autorez Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 255	Posted - 2014.04.18 17:55:00 - [28] - Quote Hmmm. +1 but I'd really have to see the Heavy Logis in action and play around with them to see if I really do prefer a Heavy Frame Logi to Medium Frame Logi. Recruiter Link thread
Fire of Prometheus Alpha Response Command 4283	Posted - 2014.04.18 19:28:00 - [29] - Quote Ummmm, I'm fine with the commando being a chubby little lard @$$....he's cute and cuddly that way Alpha Response Command (ALREC) The premier training corp for commandos. Apply today!


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