DUST Search - Buff assaults, dont nerf logis

chase rowland wrote:

Marston VC wrote:

Tons of people are calling for CCP to nerf logi suits. That's just nonsensical. I haven't seen a single post bring up a valid way to nerf the logi suits without breaking them. (and before you guys say "hes just biased because he only uses logi suits" Actually..... I have three proto assault suits, and only 1 proto logi suit......). So rather then nerfing PG/CPU, or reducing damage, or taking away weapon availability. Why not just make it so that assault suits are better at slaying then logis????

One way or the other, an entire class of suits has to be changed. So rather then nerfing things and pissing people off, why not just buff things and make some people happy about it? The reason I think assaults should be buffed is because of the Calogi fiasco we had back in 1.0-1.1.

Somebody posted a fit of their Calogi before and after the nerf it got. The fit was literally the exact same but instead of having a bunch of logi like equipment, there was just 1 nanohive. Which means........ it was still a slayer fit...... Same exact suit, just a little bit less health in shields (because of the nerf to shields it got). So what happens if CCP nerfs things to the logi suits? Well..... history shows that it actually damages logiing like behavior, so instead of nurfing logis, I think it would be better to just make assaults better at what they do.

Give assault suits damage buffs to racial specific weapons, increase there CPU and PG so that they can use all those complex modules. (which would make sense considering its the same as a logi suit just without equipment slots). Make it so that its actually worth using assault suits, and stop talking all this nonsense about how "logis are OP" Buffing the calogi assault was a good start, but I don't personally believe it was enough because I know for a fact I see way more logi suits in PC battles then assaults. So yeah..... that's just my take on what should actually be done. IDK how you guys feel, and honestly it really doesn't concern me either way CCP decides to lean.

you forget, the medium assault suit is still OP compared to the heavy and scout. think about them for once

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Marston VC SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1285	Posted - 2013.11.22 12:14:00 - [31] - Quote Infamous Erich wrote: Give assaults 2 equipment only on the proto varients of each race and i would say thats perfect. Nanohive and nanite FTW! They cant do that, because then everyone would run assault suits. It used to be like that in closed beta, and it was really rare to see a logi almost ever. The reason for it was because you'd have full proto squads who all ran a combination of equipment that allowed them to function without a logi. Marston VC, STB director
Marston VC SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1285	Posted - 2013.11.22 12:20:00 - [32] - Quote George Moros wrote: @OP: How is nerfing logi's CPU/PG while giving them a bonus to fitting equipment, breaking logi dropsuits? Practically every suggestion I read concerning CPU/PG nerf, also said that it should go along with equipment fitting bonus. Why do you think assaults need a buff? Their usage on the battlefield is paling due to increased domination of scouts and heavies? Stop acting like the only dropsuits that exist in DUST are mediums. If you buff assaults, you'd have to buff every other dropsuit class in the game. So, basically, you're suggesting that it would be easier to buff everything, than to nerf the logi. Doesn't make much sense to me. Actually, that's not what I suggested at all. Nerfing the logi's CPU/PG but giving a buff to equipment usage is absolutely idiotic. Its the same as doing nothing. Buffing assaults would not in-balance the game anymore then it already is. If you haven't noticed, heavy suits have gotten three buffs over the last four months. Two indirect buffs, and one direct buff. Logis have remained largely the same. Scouts still suck. By buffing assault suits, it will allow for them to actually compete with well fitted logi suits, and feasibly be able to attempt a kill on a well fitted heavy. Im not saying "buff every other suit" im saying buff the assault suit....... and I don't know how you could possibly twist my words any further then that to begin with. Marston VC, STB director
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 3862	Posted - 2013.11.22 12:37:00 - [33] - Quote Black or white fallacy: "Also known as the false dilemma, this insidious tactic has the appearance of forming a logical argument, but under closer scrutiny it becomes evident that there are more possibilities than the either/or choice that is presented. Binary, black-or-white thinking doesn't allow for the many different variables, conditions, and contexts in which there would exist more than just the two possibilities put forth. It frames the argument misleadingly and obscures rational, honest debate." Some things need to change with assaults, other things need to change with logis. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 257	Posted - 2013.11.22 12:53:00 - [34] - Quote Sometimes I think CCP should just remove every suit apart from the assault suit from the game...
Shotty GoBang Pro Hic Immortalis 2363	Posted - 2013.11.22 13:39:00 - [35] - Quote Who recalls when Logis were Logis? Always at the ready with Hives and Reps and Pickups. Needed our protection as much as we needed their Logi Love. Back then, no one set out to "pubstomp" in a Logi suit. LOL @ Slayer Logi
Shotty GoBang Pro Hic Immortalis 2363	Posted - 2013.11.22 13:42:00 - [36] - Quote Better Assaults aren't the answer. Assaults already outperform everything but Logis. I suspect CCP set out to make the Logi better at defending itself. I doubt they set out give Nyain San a better pubstomping suit. Good intentions, but over-corrected. If you want HP like a Heavy, shouldn't there be a tradeoff?
AfroSunshineY Consequence R 0 N 1 N 174	Posted - 2013.11.22 15:46:00 - [37] - Quote I've got to say I'm a little appalled by an assault player asking for a buff with scouts the way they are right now
broonfondle majikthies Bannana Boat Corp Relentless Heroes Alliance 484	Posted - 2013.11.22 16:04:00 - [38] - Quote I don't know about a buff, but Gal Assaults could probably do with a different generic Assault Bonus. Cal could do with a skill that directly affects their weapons (only ones that don't - Gal tech, i.e the PC, is difficult to load on a suit so in a way matches) Wouldn't mind a change to Min assault bonus - Current one is fine (seeing as half sidearms are Min anyway) But won't help when 1.7 hits and we all want our Combat Rifles. Edit - But that's me being selfish so I'll shut up "...where Bylothgar the Ill-postured was made King of the People With No Name But Decent Footwear"
Everything Dies Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 230	Posted - 2013.11.22 16:13:00 - [39] - Quote Broonfondle Majikthies wrote: I don't know about a buff, but Gal Assaults could probably do with a different generic Assault Bonus. BINGO. The biggest problem with my Gallente assault suit is the nearly-worthless bonus given to my shields; what I really want is the logi bonus of passive armor rep. If an assault suit is designed for fighting, it should receive a bonus that helps it to stay alive in a firefight. As for nerfing the logi suit, a good first step would be to limit the usage of WP-farming equipment. Remove the ability to have each type of equipment (i.e. every type of uplink) all going at the same time and instead limit it to a set amount (for example, two uplinks--of any kind--can operate at the same time) and you might see a reduction in logi numbers. Life is killing me.
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 258	Posted - 2013.11.22 17:31:00 - [40] - Quote Shotty GoBang wrote: Who recalls when Logis were Logis? Always at the ready with Hives and Reps and Pickups. Needed our protection as much as we needed their Logi Love. Back then, no one set out to "pubstomp" in a Logi suit. LOL @ Slayer Logi If you would remember the chromosome logies you would know that logies in chromosome were even stronger than now. And just a sidenote IF you tank a logi to have hp like an heavy he IS as slow as a heavy with less hp and without a sidearm.

chase rowland The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo 77	Posted - 2013.11.22 17:33:00 - [41] - Quote Marston VC wrote: Tons of people are calling for CCP to nerf logi suits. That's just nonsensical. I haven't seen a single post bring up a valid way to nerf the logi suits without breaking them. (and before you guys say "hes just biased because he only uses logi suits" Actually..... I have three proto assault suits, and only 1 proto logi suit......). So rather then nerfing PG/CPU, or reducing damage, or taking away weapon availability. Why not just make it so that assault suits are better at slaying then logis???? One way or the other, an entire class of suits has to be changed. So rather then nerfing things and pissing people off, why not just buff things and make some people happy about it? The reason I think assaults should be buffed is because of the Calogi fiasco we had back in 1.0-1.1. Somebody posted a fit of their Calogi before and after the nerf it got. The fit was literally the exact same but instead of having a bunch of logi like equipment, there was just 1 nanohive. Which means........ it was still a slayer fit...... Same exact suit, just a little bit less health in shields (because of the nerf to shields it got). So what happens if CCP nerfs things to the logi suits? Well..... history shows that it actually damages logiing like behavior, so instead of nurfing logis, I think it would be better to just make assaults better at what they do. Give assault suits damage buffs to racial specific weapons, increase there CPU and PG so that they can use all those complex modules. (which would make sense considering its the same as a logi suit just without equipment slots). Make it so that its actually worth using assault suits, and stop talking all this nonsense about how "logis are OP" Buffing the calogi assault was a good start, but I don't personally believe it was enough because I know for a fact I see way more logi suits in PC battles then assaults. So yeah..... that's just my take on what should actually be done. IDK how you guys feel, and honestly it really doesn't concern me either way CCP decides to lean. you forget, the medium assault suit is still OP compared to the heavy and scout. think about them for once
Shotty GoBang Pro Hic Immortalis 2380	Posted - 2013.11.22 17:37:00 - [42] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: If you would remember the chromosome logies you would know that logies in chromosome were even stronger than now. Incorrect! What I recall is a distinct lack of 1000+ HP "Slayer Logis" running around hipfiring Duvolles. As a sidenote, the KR-17 OHK'd even the tankiest of Chromosome Logis. Korvin Lomont wrote: And just a sidenote IF you tank a logi to have hp like an heavy he IS as slow as a heavy with less hp and without a sidearm. Assuming that Heavy runs KinCats instead of Armor?
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 258	Posted - 2013.11.22 17:44:00 - [43] - Quote Shotty GoBang wrote: Korvin Lomont wrote: If you would remember the chromosome logies you would know that logies in chromosome were even stronger than now. Incorrect! What I recall is a distinct lack of 1000+ HP "Slayer Logis" running around hipfiring Duvolles. As a sidenote, the KR-17 OHK'd even the tankiest of Chromosome Logis. Korvin Lomont wrote: And just a sidenote IF you tank a logi to have hp like an heavy he IS as slow as a heavy with less hp and without a sidearm. Assuming that Heavy runs KinCats instead of Armor? The minni logi had the same slot layout was faster (vk1) with slightly more health. In order to archieve 1200 hp you need to fit complex plates because of the movement penalty the logi then gets a similar speed while beeing close t the hp of an unfittet std heavy.
Rynoceros Rise Of Old Dudes 1350	Posted - 2013.11.22 17:59:00 - [44] - Quote I have a stack of gK.0 Assaults I won't use. I get better satisfaction from the performance of the Standard G/1 Logi. The aK.0 Heavy is an atrocious waste of SP. My MLT Heavy with 'Toxin' weapons, kills all of them. Cheeseburgers.
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance 592	Posted - 2013.11.22 18:05:00 - [45] - Quote When I go up against a Cal/Gal Logi with my Gal Assault, I'm usually in the fair chance to win. Idky but head to head, I usually win or come really close to it. I think the issue people are having is that the Logistics can be used for Offensive capabilities on the same level as an Assault. That's not bad tho...considering that they're both medium frame suits with their own intended purposes. Assaults are mostly offensive/defensive while Logistics are for support and can either recon, replenish, or react to the field as it changes. Logistics may be able to access the highest damage or the highest eHP or the highest speed/stamina or possibly even the lowest profile but overall they're not "balanced" in the same way the assaults are when it comes to getting into actual battles. I'll see a Logi with a lot of damage modifiers but little eHP or the opposite(usually the former) and they're not that tough... Or at least it seems that way from what I've heard and seen.
George Moros Area 514 189	Posted - 2013.11.22 18:31:00 - [46] - Quote Marston VC wrote: Actually, that's not what I suggested at all. Nerfing the logi's CPU/PG but giving a buff to equipment usage is absolutely idiotic. Its the same as doing nothing. It's the same as doing nothing if (and only if) you play the logi with the intent of doing logistics, and not slaying. That's the whole point of the "nerf logi CPU/PG + equipment fitting bonus". It's not idiotic, it's simple and effective. Marston VC wrote: Buffing assaults would not in-balance the game anymore then it already is. If you haven't noticed, heavy suits have gotten three buffs over the last four months. Two indirect buffs, and one direct buff. Logis have remained largely the same. Scouts still suck. By buffing assault suits, it will allow for them to actually compete with well fitted logi suits, and feasibly be able to attempt a kill on a well fitted heavy. Medium suits are by far the most used suits currently in the game. Buffing assaults certainly wouldn't help to rectify that fact. Although, I agree that assaults should have more "assaulty" bonuses (like bonus to light weapon damage), I also think assaults should lose their equipment slot. Heavies received several buffs lately, but not the most important one - a truly effective anti-infantry weapon. Marston VC wrote: Im not saying "buff every other suit" im saying buff the assault suit....... and I don't know how you could possibly twist my words any further then that to begin with. I didn't twist your words mate, I used simple deduction as to how your proposed changes would affect the game. Pulvereus ergo queritor.
ELITE INQUISITOR Eternal Beings 16	Posted - 2013.11.22 18:33:00 - [47] - Quote Don't buff ANY medium suit. Especially the assault suit. Just make the logis have to put something in their equipment slots. Kinda like every suit has to have a primary weapon to be playable. The logis wouldn't be able to tank because pg/cpu would be used up on equipment. They could even put all re's if they wanted. If you accept your limitations you go beyond them
Marston VC SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1290	Posted - 2013.11.22 19:36:00 - [48] - Quote ELITE INQUISITOR wrote: Don't buff ANY medium suit. Especially the assault suit. Just make the logis have to put something in their equipment slots. Kinda like every suit has to have a primary weapon to be playable. The logis wouldn't be able to tank because pg/cpu would be used up on equipment. They could even put all re's if they wanted. Or I just put three compact nanohives in my slots....... Marston VC, STB director
Marston VC SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1290	Posted - 2013.11.22 19:37:00 - [49] - Quote chase rowland wrote: Marston VC wrote: Tons of people are calling for CCP to nerf logi suits. That's just nonsensical. I haven't seen a single post bring up a valid way to nerf the logi suits without breaking them. (and before you guys say "hes just biased because he only uses logi suits" Actually..... I have three proto assault suits, and only 1 proto logi suit......). So rather then nerfing PG/CPU, or reducing damage, or taking away weapon availability. Why not just make it so that assault suits are better at slaying then logis???? One way or the other, an entire class of suits has to be changed. So rather then nerfing things and pissing people off, why not just buff things and make some people happy about it? The reason I think assaults should be buffed is because of the Calogi fiasco we had back in 1.0-1.1. Somebody posted a fit of their Calogi before and after the nerf it got. The fit was literally the exact same but instead of having a bunch of logi like equipment, there was just 1 nanohive. Which means........ it was still a slayer fit...... Same exact suit, just a little bit less health in shields (because of the nerf to shields it got). So what happens if CCP nerfs things to the logi suits? Well..... history shows that it actually damages logiing like behavior, so instead of nurfing logis, I think it would be better to just make assaults better at what they do. Give assault suits damage buffs to racial specific weapons, increase there CPU and PG so that they can use all those complex modules. (which would make sense considering its the same as a logi suit just without equipment slots). Make it so that its actually worth using assault suits, and stop talking all this nonsense about how "logis are OP" Buffing the calogi assault was a good start, but I don't personally believe it was enough because I know for a fact I see way more logi suits in PC battles then assaults. So yeah..... that's just my take on what should actually be done. IDK how you guys feel, and honestly it really doesn't concern me either way CCP decides to lean. you forget, the medium assault suit is still OP compared to the heavy and scout. think about them for once The scout suit is weak ill give you that. But the heavy suits can have about 1700 HP now...... If a heavy suit cant make something work with the tank of an LAV then idk what were supposed to do. Marston VC, STB director
pdiddy anfama KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 86	Posted - 2013.11.22 19:50:00 - [50] - Quote Marston VC wrote: Tons of people are calling for CCP to nerf logi suits. That's just nonsensical. I haven't seen a single post bring up a valid way to nerf the logi suits without breaking them. (and before you guys say "hes just biased because he only uses logi suits" Actually..... I have three proto assault suits, and only 1 proto logi suit......). So rather then nerfing PG/CPU, or reducing damage, or taking away weapon availability. Why not just make it so that assault suits are better at slaying then logis???? One way or the other, an entire class of suits has to be changed. So rather then nerfing things and pissing people off, why not just buff things and make some people happy about it? The reason I think assaults should be buffed is because of the Calogi fiasco we had back in 1.0-1.1. Somebody posted a fit of their Calogi before and after the nerf it got. The fit was literally the exact same but instead of having a bunch of logi like equipment, there was just 1 nanohive. Which means........ it was still a slayer fit...... Same exact suit, just a little bit less health in shields (because of the nerf to shields it got). So what happens if CCP nerfs things to the logi suits? Well..... history shows that it actually damages logiing like behavior, so instead of nurfing logis, I think it would be better to just make assaults better at what they do. Give assault suits damage buffs to racial specific weapons, increase there CPU and PG so that they can use all those complex modules. (which would make sense considering its the same as a logi suit just without equipment slots). Make it so that its actually worth using assault suits, and stop talking all this nonsense about how "logis are OP" Buffing the calogi assault was a good start, but I don't personally believe it was enough because I know for a fact I see way more logi suits in PC battles then assaults. So yeah..... that's just my take on what should actually be done. IDK how you guys feel, and honestly it really doesn't concern me either way CCP decides to lean. Very good our corp was just talking about this same exact thing last night.

CLONE117 planetary retaliation organisation 488	Posted - 2013.11.22 20:01:00 - [51] - Quote im against the damage buff for assault suits. im going to try to make an example on what i think should be done for the logi suit. lets take a proto galente logi suit and proto assault suit of the same type and race. the fully fitted versions with just stacked plates and shield extenders. logi gets more total hp than the assault suit does. because the higher tiered logi suits have more high and low slots than their high tiered assault versions. and since the logi already has a base hp weaker than an assault suit. lets make it to where that logi suit could have either the same amount of slots as the assault version or less slots. equipment slots and things of that sort should be uneffected. this could get rid of slayer logis all together making an assault more preferable than a logi suit for killing/assaulting objectives.
SteelheadPep SAM-MIK 1	Posted - 2013.11.22 22:30:00 - [52] - Quote BURN HER, BURN HER, she's a witch! I'm not a witch they dressed me like this. It is comical that there are a lot of similarities here. Keep up the good work you will drive this game into the dirt then blame everyone else. Have made suggestions in the numerious other insane posts that seem to pop up like mushrooms.Becareful of what you wish for because your precious suit maybe next.


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