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1.7 BS 50 sec shield hardener cooldown opinions?

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jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 94	Posted - 2013.11.18 06:26:00 - [1] - Quote i think that instead of hit and run, it'll be hit and hide then get destroyed before cooldown ends or hide and run to redline. it should be 40 or 35 sec cooldown, then skills
LUGMOS YELLOW JESUS EXP FORCE 132	Posted - 2013.11.18 06:28:00 - [2] - Quote CCP says: Waves of oppurtunity. The biggest threat to my scout is everything. My scout is the biggest threat to everything.
Eurydice Itzhak Militaires Sans Jeux 239	Posted - 2013.11.18 06:28:00 - [3] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: i think that instead of hit and run, it'll be hit and hide then get destroyed before cooldown ends or hide and run to redline. it should be 40 or 35 sec cooldown, then skills The current shield hardener has a cd of 30 seconds and NO tank uses these. I can see the complaints about almost doubling the cd.
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 94	Posted - 2013.11.18 06:30:00 - [4] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: CCP says: Waves of oppurtunity. an opportunity with LOW hp, would be 20, 25, or 30 seconds, plenty of time for 2 people to destroy it, while armor will have shorter cooldowns AND constant reps
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 94	Posted - 2013.11.18 06:32:00 - [5] - Quote Eurydice Itzhak wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: i think that instead of hit and run, it'll be hit and hide then get destroyed before cooldown ends or hide and run to redline. it should be 40 or 35 sec cooldown, then skills The current shield hardener has a cd of 30 seconds and NO tank uses these. I can see the complaints about almost doubling the cd. btw on a alt with a maddie, 15 seconds is enough for 1 guy to destroy, thats why i use 2 hardeners
LUGMOS YELLOW JESUS EXP FORCE 132	Posted - 2013.11.18 06:33:00 - [6] - Quote I dont personally run shield tanks, just run them on dropships. But i was just saying what CCP said. Hiw much damage % is reduced? The biggest threat to my scout is everything. My scout is the biggest threat to everything.
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 94	Posted - 2013.11.18 06:34:00 - [7] - Quote Eurydice Itzhak wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: i think that instead of hit and run, it'll be hit and hide then get destroyed before cooldown ends or hide and run to redline. it should be 40 or 35 sec cooldown, then skills The current shield hardener has a cd of 30 seconds and NO tank uses these. I can see the complaints about almost doubling the cd. ps std hardeners have 80 second cooldown.
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 94	Posted - 2013.11.18 06:35:00 - [8] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: I dont personally run shield tanks, just run them on dropships. But i was just saying what CCP said. Hiw much damage % is reduced? 60%, 0.4 dmg modifier, still no excuse to make a hit, run and redline module
Lorhak Gannarsein 601	Posted - 2013.11.18 06:36:00 - [9] - Quote ps they have a 30s active duration. If you can't escape from AV inside 30s, you are bad and should never set foot inside a tank again. QQ MOAR I Support SP Rollover
Harpyja Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 783	Posted - 2013.11.18 06:38:00 - [10] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: I dont personally run shield tanks, just run them on dropships. But i was just saying what CCP said. Hiw much damage % is reduced? The new shield hardeners have a multiplier of .4; this should mean that incoming damage has only 40% effectiveness, or 60% resists on the vehicle. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32

jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 94	Posted - 2013.11.18 06:40:00 - [11] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: ps they have a 30s active duration. If you can't escape from AV inside 30s, you are bad and should never set foot inside a tank again. QQ MOAR i can, it's just i have to hide for 40 seconds, which is stupid, QQ MOAR AV
Nguruthos IX PEN 15 CLUB 2230	Posted - 2013.11.18 06:45:00 - [12] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: CCP says: Waves of oppurtunity. Waves of constant forge gun fire from 250 meters and Red line rail tanks/turrets. Non-rendered but hitting you down in 2 shots from 600 meters. I'm calling it now, "waves of opportunity" will be less so than already. And they're already short. Now with more Pain in the ***! Restocking ammo and slower repairs! YAYE
LUGMOS YELLOW JESUS EXP FORCE 132	Posted - 2013.11.18 06:47:00 - [13] - Quote Welll... Try putting two shield resistance, a heavy booster and shield regen. Build your tank around the modules. Then again, i dont run shiled tanks. Just speculating. The biggest threat to my scout is everything. My scout is the biggest threat to everything.
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 94	Posted - 2013.11.18 06:50:00 - [14] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: Welll... Try putting two shield resistance, a heavy booster and shield regen. Build your tank around the modules. Then again, i dont run shiled tanks. Just speculating. 2 hardeners and a booster is bad, 2600 shields LOL, no booster means bye bye by because no passive resistance=half shields gone bye first attack
Lynn Beck Granite Mercenary Division Top Men. 234	Posted - 2013.11.18 06:51:00 - [15] - Quote Personally i'll just run dmg mod, passive resist and either booster or extender. Though i may be thrown to sharks as i'm not a math wizard. (Well i am, but only when i want to be) -Newly proclaimed Lazor riffle specialist- "You said yourself fantastically 'congratulations you are all alone.'"
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 94	Posted - 2013.11.18 06:52:00 - [16] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: Personally i'll just run dmg mod, passive resist and either booster or extender. Though i may be thrown to sharks as i'm not a math wizard. (Well i am, but only when i want to be) there are no more passive resists
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 989	Posted - 2013.11.18 06:54:00 - [17] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: Personally i'll just run dmg mod, passive resist and either booster or extender. Though i may be thrown to sharks as i'm not a math wizard. (Well i am, but only when i want to be) Passive resists will not exist in 1.7 ADS Reports - Defining Racial Themes
LUGMOS YELLOW JESUS EXP FORCE 132	Posted - 2013.11.18 06:54:00 - [18] - Quote Alright i'm tired of all this dam negative attitude. If you know how to fit your tank, dont come and QQ here. The biggest threat to my scout is everything. My scout is the biggest threat to everything.
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 94	Posted - 2013.11.18 06:58:00 - [19] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: Alright i'm tired of all this dam negative attitude. If you know how to fit your tank, dont come and QQ here. its not about that, its about a module that forces you to run to the redline
Vulpes Dolosus SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 271	Posted - 2013.11.18 06:59:00 - [20] - Quote I don't know what you're talking about. You get -40% damage for 30sec with a 45sec cool down. Fit two on and stagger them, or use them both at the same time if you want, I don't care. If you get killed in 15sec, maybe you should consider not tanking. Dropship Specialist: AKA Clinically Insane

LUGMOS YELLOW JESUS EXP FORCE 132	Posted - 2013.11.18 07:03:00 - [21] - Quote ^This Im sorry, but i have seen way too much negativity. I do not take it lightly. The biggest threat to my scout is everything. My scout is the biggest threat to everything.
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 94	Posted - 2013.11.18 07:04:00 - [22] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: I don't know what you're talking about. You get -40% damage for 30sec with a 45sec cool down. Fit two on and stagger them, or use them both at the same time if you want, I don't care. If you get killed in 15sec, maybe you should consider not tanking. ummm.....read the OP 40 second cooldown with skills, or 35, after module in on cooldown, you'll be killed instantly due to no passives. go fit a gunlogi with 3900 shields, 2 surge hardeners and a booster, you'll always die as short duration and long cooldown suck, 1 clip of av will destroy a tank with hardeners on cooldown in 1.7, or almost
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 989	Posted - 2013.11.18 07:08:00 - [23] - Quote I think the issue here is they wanted to avoid shield tankers cycling hardeners to give themselves nearly 100% up time on resists. So either the cooldown needed to be long or the duration short. Armor on the other hand is intended to have less repping capacity but more uptime on their damage resistance. In the end I think it all comes down to playstyle on how you want to run your HAV. ADS Reports - Defining Racial Themes
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 94	Posted - 2013.11.18 07:11:00 - [24] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: I think the issue here is they wanted to avoid shield tankers cycling hardeners to give themselves nearly 100% up time on resists. So either the cooldown needed to be long or the duration short. Armor on the other hand is intended to have less repping capacity but more uptime on their damage resistance. In the end I think it all comes down to playstyle on how you want to run your HAV. "Armor on the other hand is intended to have less repping capacity" they have 181 armor hp/s constantly, shield have both short duration and long cooldown, IDC if they nerf shield hardener to 50% DR i want to not hide.....
LUGMOS YELLOW JESUS EXP FORCE 132	Posted - 2013.11.18 07:12:00 - [25] - Quote Exactly. Did the OP read the part where CCP said a tank will be powerful with the active modules on, but vulnerable on cooldown? Hence the waves of oppurtunities. The biggest threat to my scout is everything. My scout is the biggest threat to everything.
LUGMOS YELLOW JESUS EXP FORCE 132	Posted - 2013.11.18 07:13:00 - [26] - Quote Like it or not, you will have to hide at some point. The biggest threat to my scout is everything. My scout is the biggest threat to everything.
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 94	Posted - 2013.11.18 07:14:00 - [27] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: Exactly. Did the OP read the part where CCP said a tank will be powerful with the active modules on, but vulnerable on cooldown? Hence the waves of oppurtunities. 25-30 seconds is plenty downtime to get destroyed, 40-45 is bad yes i want tanks to be vulnerable, but not helpless unless running to redline, i want hit and run, not hit and hide.
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 94	Posted - 2013.11.18 07:16:00 - [28] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: Like it or not, you will have to hide at some point. the problem is every 30 seconds you must hide for 40 or get destroyed IF there is av or dead infrantry aware of tank, cuz 3900 shields with no passive resists is uh, bad dont forget derpships firing at you or tanks
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 989	Posted - 2013.11.18 07:23:00 - [29] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: I think the issue here is they wanted to avoid shield tankers cycling hardeners to give themselves nearly 100% up time on resists. So either the cooldown needed to be long or the duration short. Armor on the other hand is intended to have less repping capacity but more uptime on their damage resistance. In the end I think it all comes down to playstyle on how you want to run your HAV. "Armor on the other hand is intended to have less repping capacity" they have 181 armor hp/s constantly, shield have both short duration and long cooldown, IDC if they nerf shield hardener to 50% DR i want to not hide..... You're also forgetting the massive nerf to the range of swarm launchers, from 400m to 150m. Since most shield tanks should be making use of missile and railgun turrets with a ranges of 300 and 600m respectfully, you'll be well outside the range of the mostly commonly used AV weapon in the game. In addition to that, shields have a 20% resistance to both swarms and AV grenades, where armor takes +20%. Shields will also have the ability to quickly regenerate 1950 HP instantly every 30 seconds which effectively increases your total shield HP pool against sustained damage and regenerate your shield to 100% much faster than armor. That booster alone is effectively an additional 10.7 seconds of repping with a Complex Armor repairer at level 5. So while the passive repair rate is slightly lower than a complex armor repairer, your effective repair rate with a booster is much higher. ADS Reports - Defining Racial Themes
Monkey MAC killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance 988	Posted - 2013.11.18 07:25:00 - [30] - Quote Well lets say for those 45 secs, especially since you are a shield tank, we will say 20 secs to the redline, 10 secs to restock and 10 secs to go back to whatever combat theatre you were in. Doesn't seem to unreasonable, its all about the measured risk, do you leave 30secs into your hardners or little closer and hope not to be ambushed, once forge guns are nerfed so long as you try and barrel through an enemy squad you'll be fine! Also consider jf you are tanking properly you will be with an Infantry squad who will be able to cover retreat! The pen is mightier than the sword The gun is mightier than both

jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 94	Posted - 2013.11.18 07:27:00 - [31] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: I think the issue here is they wanted to avoid shield tankers cycling hardeners to give themselves nearly 100% up time on resists. So either the cooldown needed to be long or the duration short. Armor on the other hand is intended to have less repping capacity but more uptime on their damage resistance. In the end I think it all comes down to playstyle on how you want to run your HAV. "Armor on the other hand is intended to have less repping capacity" they have 181 armor hp/s constantly, shield have both short duration and long cooldown, IDC if they nerf shield hardener to 50% DR i want to not hide..... You're also forgetting the massive nerf to the range of swarm launchers, from 400m to 150m. Sincea i know, but tanks are for killing, and goodluck killing at 300m, HIT AND RUN, get close, kill, get out. btw its 175m not 150, and 10% dr not 20 i just want slightly less cooldown on hardeners
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 94	Posted - 2013.11.18 07:29:00 - [32] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Well lets say for those 45 secs, especially since you are a shield tank, we will say 20 secs to the redline, 10 secs to restock and 10 secs to go back to whatever combat theatre you were in. Doesn't seem to unreasonable, its all about the measured risk, do you leave 30secs into your hardners or little closer and hope not to be ambushed, once forge guns are nerfed so long as you try and barrel through an enemy squad you'll be fine! Also consider jf you are tanking properly you will be with an Infantry squad who will be able to cover retreat! infrantry can respawn near you, av will only focus on you 30-35 seconds seems reasonable
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 992	Posted - 2013.11.18 07:32:00 - [33] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: I think the issue here is they wanted to avoid shield tankers cycling hardeners to give themselves nearly 100% up time on resists. So either the cooldown needed to be long or the duration short. Armor on the other hand is intended to have less repping capacity but more uptime on their damage resistance. In the end I think it all comes down to playstyle on how you want to run your HAV. "Armor on the other hand is intended to have less repping capacity" they have 181 armor hp/s constantly, shield have both short duration and long cooldown, IDC if they nerf shield hardener to 50% DR i want to not hide..... You're also forgetting the massive nerf to the range of swarm launchers, from 400m to 150m. Sincea i know, but tanks are for killing, and goodluck killing at 300m, HIT AND RUN, get close, kill, get out. btw its 175m not 150, and 10% dr not 20 i just want slightly less cooldown on hardeners ....So have you checked the DPS on missile turrets? Offhand I believe it breaks 3000 burst dps, I dont think you'll have an issue getting kills with that. Also if you want to get close, kill, get out.....why are you not speccing into armor vehicles? That's what they're designed to do. Thanks for the correction on the Swarm range, I wasn't 100% sure on the exact value. Also, if the reduction is 10% that is inconsistent with infantry damage profiles, and hopefully it will be fixed to reflect that. http://dust514.com/news/blog/2013/07/weapon-ranges-in-uprising-1.2-and-beyond/ ADS Reports - Defining Racial Themes
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 94	Posted - 2013.11.18 07:36:00 - [34] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: ....So have you checked the DPS on missile turrets? Offhand I believe it breaks 3000 burst dps, I dont think you'll have an issue getting kills with that. Also if you want to get close, kill, get out.....why are you not speccing into armor vehicles? That's what they're designed to do. Thanks for the correction on the Swarm range, I wasn't 100% sure on the exact value. Also, if the reduction is 10% that is inconsistent with infantry damage profiles, and hopefully it will be fixed to reflect that. http://dust514.com/news/blog/2013/07/weapon-ranges-in-uprising-1.2-and-beyond/ armor is stand and deliver, shield is hit and run. and i meant killing infrantry, not vehicles.....
Monkey MAC killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance 990	Posted - 2013.11.18 07:37:00 - [35] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Well lets say for those 45 secs, especially since you are a shield tank, we will say 20 secs to the redline, 10 secs to restock and 10 secs to go back to whatever combat theatre you were in. Doesn't seem to unreasonable, its all about the measured risk, do you leave 30secs into your hardners or little closer and hope not to be ambushed, once forge guns are nerfed so long as you try and barrel through an enemy squad you'll be fine! Also consider jf you are tanking properly you will be with an Infantry squad who will be able to cover retreat! infrantry can respawn near you, av will only focus on you 30-35 seconds seems reasonable Infantry will only spawn in their own lines, if you as a tanker have done your job, they should be forced backed to the uplinks where infantry will finish them of. Yes AV will focus only on vehicles, but if you leave the theatre your engaged in before the hardners power down you will rarely encounter other infantry based AV. Of course you may encounter tanks set up as artillery but that is a different matter and all part of the fun! The pen is mightier than the sword The gun is mightier than both
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 992	Posted - 2013.11.18 07:39:00 - [36] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: ....So have you checked the DPS on missile turrets? Offhand I believe it breaks 3000 burst dps, I dont think you'll have an issue getting kills with that. Also if you want to get close, kill, get out.....why are you not speccing into armor vehicles? That's what they're designed to do. Thanks for the correction on the Swarm range, I wasn't 100% sure on the exact value. Also, if the reduction is 10% that is inconsistent with infantry damage profiles, and hopefully it will be fixed to reflect that. http://dust514.com/news/blog/2013/07/weapon-ranges-in-uprising-1.2-and-beyond/ armor is stand and deliver, shield is hit and run. and i meant killing infrantry, not vehicles..... Hit and run from long-range. Im not sure if you're familiar with EVE lore but the Caldari are the kings of long range combat, and I feel that the system they're set up for shield vehicles reflects that very well. And armor vehicles can be very easily run to be massive burst tanks to do exactly what you described. ADS Reports - Defining Racial Themes
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 95	Posted - 2013.11.18 07:40:00 - [37] - Quote Monkey Mac wrote: nfantry will only spawn in their own lines, if you as a tanker have done your job, they should be forced backed to the uplinks where infantry will finish them of. Yes AV will focus only on vehicles, but if you leave the theatre your engaged in before the hardners power down you will rarely encounter other infantry based AV. Of course you may encounter tanks set up as artillery but that is a different matter and all part of the fun! +1's for being reasonable, and range weapons cant be too powerful or else it wont be fun maybe 10 shots idk
Monkey MAC killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance 990	Posted - 2013.11.18 07:43:00 - [38] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: ....So have you checked the DPS on missile turrets? Offhand I believe it breaks 3000 burst dps, I dont think you'll have an issue getting kills with that. Also if you want to get close, kill, get out.....why are you not speccing into armor vehicles? That's what they're designed to do. Thanks for the correction on the Swarm range, I wasn't 100% sure on the exact value. Also, if the reduction is 10% that is inconsistent with infantry damage profiles, and hopefully it will be fixed to reflect that. http://dust514.com/news/blog/2013/07/weapon-ranges-in-uprising-1.2-and-beyond/ armor is stand and deliver, shield is hit and run. and i meant killing infrantry, not vehicles..... the hulls don't lend them selves to ranges but more to tactics, if you want to play a shield tank up close, feel free, its down to the weapon you mount that will determine your fighting style. Missile -Hit n Run best with an armour hull due to reloads, need to be able to withstand multiple incursions to theatre in same run. Rail - Long range not really best with either, both hull types can be used effectively here. Blaster - Short Range, best with Shield due to the nature of the incursion shield tanks will have a higher resistance to close range infantry AV weaponry! The pen is mightier than the sword The gun is mightier than both
pegasis prime BIG BAD W0LVES 1290	Posted - 2013.11.18 07:45:00 - [39] - Quote sigh................don't you even realise that gunlogis will have an effective hp of approx 20k for 30 seconds at a time ? yes the cool down is 45 seconds with max skills but if you equip 2 hardeners and a booster then you have a very meaty fit that will only have to back down for 20-30 seconds max at a time. dude learn to fit your tank and run the numbers rather than just looking at stats and crying. Its gone from suck .....to blow level 1 forum warrior
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 95	Posted - 2013.11.18 07:48:00 - [40] - Quote pegasis prime wrote: sigh................don't you even realise that gunlogis will have an effective hp of approx 20k for 30 seconds at a time ? yes the cool down is 45 seconds with max skills but if you equip 2 hardeners and a booster then you have a very meaty fit that will only have to back down for 20-30 seconds max at a time. dude learn to fit your tank and run the numbers rather than just looking at stats and crying. not everyone will run 2 hardeners av douchebag, it doesn't matter if i have to wait so damm long

Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 992	Posted - 2013.11.18 07:49:00 - [41] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: ....So have you checked the DPS on missile turrets? Offhand I believe it breaks 3000 burst dps, I dont think you'll have an issue getting kills with that. Also if you want to get close, kill, get out.....why are you not speccing into armor vehicles? That's what they're designed to do. Thanks for the correction on the Swarm range, I wasn't 100% sure on the exact value. Also, if the reduction is 10% that is inconsistent with infantry damage profiles, and hopefully it will be fixed to reflect that. http://dust514.com/news/blog/2013/07/weapon-ranges-in-uprising-1.2-and-beyond/ armor is stand and deliver, shield is hit and run. and i meant killing infrantry, not vehicles..... the hulls don't lend them selves to ranges but more to tactics, if you want to play a shield tank up close, feel free, its down to the weapon you mount that will determine your fighting style. Missile -Hit n Run best with an armour hull due to reloads, need to be able to withstand multiple incursions to theatre in same run. Rail - Long range not really best with either, both hull types can be used effectively here. Blaster - Short Range, best with Shield due to the nature of the incursion shield tanks will have a higher resistance to close range infantry AV weaponry! Except Caldari are lacking in PG to fit blasters and Gallente are lacking in CPU to fit missiles. I don't see the obsession with shields...if you want to play close up, use the type of tanking that is best for close up -- Armor. If you want to play long range, play the tanking type that's best for long range -- Shields. ADS Reports - Defining Racial Themes
pegasis prime BIG BAD W0LVES 1290	Posted - 2013.11.18 07:57:00 - [42] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: pegasis prime wrote: sigh................don't you even realise that gunlogis will have an effective hp of approx 20k for 30 seconds at a time ? yes the cool down is 45 seconds with max skills but if you equip 2 hardeners and a booster then you have a very meaty fit that will only have to back down for 20-30 seconds max at a time. dude learn to fit your tank and run the numbers rather than just looking at stats and crying. not everyone will run 2 hardeners av douchebag, it doesn't matter if i have to wait so damm long hahahah did you call me an AV douch bag hahahah iv been tanking since ohh say at leats since 2 weeks after chrome was released , so I think its safe to say iv been running tanks longer than you have been playing this game. hahahahahah keep up the tears . and if you run a fit with 1 hardner then you are a fool plain and simple . Its gone from suck .....to blow level 1 forum warrior
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 95	Posted - 2013.11.18 08:01:00 - [43] - Quote pegasis prime wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: pegasis prime wrote: sigh................don't you even realise that gunlogis will have an effective hp of approx 20k for 30 seconds at a time ? yes the cool down is 45 seconds with max skills but if you equip 2 hardeners and a booster then you have a very meaty fit that will only have to back down for 20-30 seconds max at a time. dude learn to fit your tank and run the numbers rather than just looking at stats and crying. not everyone will run 2 hardeners av douchebag, it doesn't matter if i have to wait so damm long hahahah did you call me an AV douch bag hahahah iv been tanking since ohh say at leats since 2 weeks after chrome was released , so I 1. i run 2 hardeners on my maddie 2. you kinda sounded like a douchebag, "dude learn to fit your tank and run the numbers rather than just looking at stats and crying." 3. didn't know you tank, no tears here 4. usually av bash like that 5. sorry
pegasis prime BIG BAD W0LVES 1290	Posted - 2013.11.18 08:06:00 - [44] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: pegasis prime wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: pegasis prime wrote: sigh................don't you even realise that gunlogis will have an effective hp of approx 20k for 30 seconds at a time ? yes the cool down is 45 seconds with max skills but if you equip 2 hardeners and a booster then you have a very meaty fit that will only have to back down for 20-30 seconds max at a time. dude learn to fit your tank and run the numbers rather than just looking at stats and crying. not everyone will run 2 hardeners av douchebag, it doesn't matter if i have to wait so damm long hahahah did you call me an AV douch bag hahahah iv been tanking since ohh say at leats since 2 weeks after chrome was released , so I 1. i run 2 hardeners on my maddie 2. you kinda sounded like a douchebag, "dude learn to fit your tank and run the numbers rather than just looking at stats and crying." 3. didn't know you tank, no tears here 4. usually av bash like that 5. sorry im just sick to death with new tankers thinking that they know better than the vets . im also sick of people moaning abpout 1.7 before it even hits . as I said run the numbers and youll find gunlogis will have a very good fitting options and combat effectiveness 1.7 is only the first pass on vehicle changes so settle down. Its gone from suck .....to blow level 1 forum warrior
Vulpes Dolosus SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 272	Posted - 2013.11.18 08:08:00 - [45] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Vulpes Dolosus wrote: I don't know what you're talking about. You get -40% damage for 30sec with a 45sec cool down. Fit two on and stagger them, or use them both at the same time if you want, I don't care. If you get killed in 15sec, maybe you should consider not tanking. ummm.....read the OP 40 second cooldown with skills, or 35, after module in on cooldown, you'll be killed instantly due to no passives. go fit a gunlogi with 3900 shields, 2 surge hardeners and a booster, you'll always die as short duration and long cooldown suck, 1 clip of av will destroy a tank with hardeners on cooldown in 1.7, or almost edit i mean in seconds not always if you arent around a big corner to block av UmmGÇª listen to what CCP said they're doing with tanks. Vehicle, especially shield vehicles, are not meant to be able to "stand and deliver" (stay in one spot and take a whole lot of damage for a long time). Whether or not you agree with this or not, that's what happening. Now with this fit (2 complex hardeners and a booster), you get 8,125 shield ehp (give or take for resistances to weapons) for 1m and a 15sec cool down in between, plus the emergency boost of roughly 1,950k hp (or 2,730k with hardener on), and if you were to tune on all the modules to full effectiveness, you'll have 31k ehp for 30sec, according to the fitting tool. It really doesn't seem that bad to me. So you get an +8k shield tank with instant emergency +2k, and what are you up against? Post AV nerf, literally militia swarms and worst-than-current-standard AV grenades *AT PROTOTYPE*. I admit, I'm not a very good tanker (see the sig), but if you're can't escape 2-3 standard AV players in a +3k shield tank +booster, let alone +8k +booster, I don't know what else to tell you. Really the only trouble would come from forges (omg, what's new?), but in my totally unbiased opinion, they're in need of a nerf anyway. Dropship Specialist: AKA Clinically Insane
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 95	Posted - 2013.11.18 08:10:00 - [46] - Quote pegasis prime wrote: im just sick to death with new tankers thinking that they know better than the vets . im also sick of people moaning abpout 1.7 before it even hits . as I said run the numbers and youll find gunlogis will have a very good fitting options and combat effectiveness 1.7 is only the first pass on vehicle changes so settle down. im not a new tanker, i tanked when hav's were a starter fit, and it looked bad thats why i brought it up.
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 95	Posted - 2013.11.18 08:13:00 - [47] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Vulpes Dolosus wrote: I don't know what you're talking about. You get -40% damage for 30sec with a 45sec cool down. Fit two on and stagger them, or use them both at the same time if you want, I don't care. If you get killed in 15sec, maybe you should consider not tanking. ummm.....read the OP 40 second cooldown with skills, or 35, after module in on cooldown, you'll be killed instantly due to no passives. go fit a gunlogi with 3900 shields, 2 surge hardeners and a booster, you'll always die as short duration and long cooldown suck, 1 clip of av will destroy a tank with hardeners on cooldown in 1.7, or almost edit i mean in seconds not always if you arent around a big corner to block av UmmGÇª listen to what CCP said they're doing with tanks. Vehicle, especially shield vehicles, are not meant to be abl the problem is when they sneak up on you or hiding, you run, they pop you, etc, it will be a problem
pegasis prime BIG BAD W0LVES 1291	Posted - 2013.11.18 08:13:00 - [48] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: pegasis prime wrote: im just sick to death with new tankers thinking that they know better than the vets . im also sick of people moaning abpout 1.7 before it even hits . as I said run the numbers and youll find gunlogis will have a very good fitting options and combat effectiveness 1.7 is only the first pass on vehicle changes so settle down. im not a new tanker, i tanked when hav's were a starter fit, and it looked bad thats why i brought it up. as I said tankers will have their day in 1.7, but lets all wait and actually see how it pans out.. oh and I wasn't specifically calling you a new tanker its just most of the QQ about havs in 1.7 has came from new tankers who have just looked at the stats and not crunched the numbers. Its gone from suck .....to blow level 1 forum warrior
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 95	Posted - 2013.11.18 08:15:00 - [49] - Quote pegasis prime wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: pegasis prime wrote: im just sick to death with new tankers thinking that they know better than the vets . im also sick of people moaning abpout 1.7 before it even hits . as I said run the numbers and youll find gunlogis will have a very good fitting options and combat effectiveness 1.7 is only the first pass on vehicle changes so settle down. im not a new tanker, i tanked when hav's were a starter fit, and it looked bad thats why i brought it up. as I said tankers will have their day in 1.7, but lets all wait and actually see how it pans out.. oh and I wasn't specifically calling you a new tanker its just most of the QQ about havs in 1.7 has came from new tankers who have just looked at the stats and not crunched the numbers. oh ok. but to ME, the cooldown seemed slightly too long, the booster seems fine.
pegasis prime BIG BAD W0LVES 1292	Posted - 2013.11.18 08:19:00 - [50] - Quote yes 35 seconds dose seem like a long time games can last up to 40 minds if matchmaking is good so 35 seconds in the grand scheme of things is really not long at all. especially if you can fit 2 hardners and a booster. then its either a 10 seconds retreat or a 35 second retreat either way you will have to run and hide for short periods of time. Its gone from suck .....to blow level 1 forum warrior

SgtDoughnut Red Star Jr. EoN. 387	Posted - 2013.11.18 08:21:00 - [51] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Vulpes Dolosus wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Vulpes Dolosus wrote: I don't know what you're talking about. You get -40% damage for 30sec with a 45sec cool down. Fit two on and stagger them, or use them both at the same time if you want, I don't care. If you get killed in 15sec, maybe you should consider not tanking. ummm.....read the OP 40 second cooldown with skills, or 35, after module in on cooldown, you'll be killed instantly due to no passives. go fit a gunlogi with 3900 shields, 2 surge hardeners and a booster, you'll always die as short duration and long cooldown suck, 1 clip of av will destroy a tank with hardeners on cooldown in 1.7, or almost edit i mean in seconds not always if you arent around a big corner to block av UmmGÇª listen to what CCP said they're doing with tanks. Vehicle, especially shield vehicles, are not meant to be abl the problem is when they sneak up on you or hiding, you run, they pop you, etc, it will be a problem Isn't that kind of the point if they manage to get good position on you and surprise you they deserve that kill.
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 95	Posted - 2013.11.18 08:25:00 - [52] - Quote not when i lose 1+ mil
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 992	Posted - 2013.11.18 08:25:00 - [53] - Quote Shield vehicles are intended to be susceptible to sudden burst damage but have a higher regeneration rate. ADS Reports - Defining Racial Themes
Monkey MAC killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance 990	Posted - 2013.11.18 09:27:00 - [54] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: ....So have you checked the DPS on missile turrets? Offhand I believe it breaks 3000 burst dps, I dont think you'll have an issue getting kills with that. Also if you want to get close, kill, get out.....why are you not speccing into armor vehicles? That's what they're designed to do. Thanks for the correction on the Swarm range, I wasn't 100% sure on the exact value. Also, if the reduction is 10% that is inconsistent with infantry damage profiles, and hopefully it will be fixed to reflect that. http://dust514.com/news/blog/2013/07/weapon-ranges-in-uprising-1.2-and-beyond/ armor is stand and deliver, shield is hit and run. and i meant killing infrantry, not vehicles..... the hulls don't lend them selves to ranges but more to tactics, if you want to play a shield tank up close, feel free, its down to the weapon you mount that will determine your fighting style. Missile -Hit n Run best with an armour hull due to reloads, need to be able to withstand multiple incursions to theatre in same run. Rail - Long range not really best with either, both hull types can be used effectively here. Blaster - Short Range, best with Shield due to the nature of the incursion shield tanks will have a higher resistance to close range infantry AV weaponry! Except Caldari are lacking in PG to fit blasters and Gallente are lacking in CPU to fit missiles. I don't see the obsession with shields...if you want to play close up, use the type of tanking that is best for close up -- Armor. If you want to play long range, play the tanking type that's best for long range -- Shields. Thats what pg/cpu modules are for, shields can't stay under sustained fire for very long, but by combining hardners and boosters, it becomes very good as a burst tanker, which lends itself more to close combat Hit n Run. Armour meanwhile can sponge much more damage, you can role in on an objective, sit down effectively change the map, meanwhile an armour tank also zujts well for long range, it continue to fire even when under fire itself, shile a shield tank become suppressed quicker! The pen is mightier than the sword The gun is mightier than both
Mortedeamor WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL 753	Posted - 2013.11.18 11:45:00 - [55] - Quote hit run call recall hit again run again call again recall again
Mortedeamor WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL 753	Posted - 2013.11.18 11:50:00 - [56] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: pegasis prime wrote: sigh................don't you even realise that gunlogis will have an effective hp of approx 20k for 30 seconds at a time ? yes the cool down is 45 seconds with max skills but if you equip 2 hardeners and a booster then you have a very meaty fit that will only have to back down for 20-30 seconds max at a time. dude learn to fit your tank and run the numbers rather than just looking at stats and crying. not everyone will run 2 hardeners av douchebag, it doesn't matter if i have to wait so damm long 1 pegasis prime is a tanker through and through and a better one than you for sure 2 i would be the av doush bag on this thread and thanks for informing me you will only be running 1 hardener good to know they're will still be stupid tankers to solo 24/7 come 1.7
Foundation Seldon Gespenster Kompanie Villore Accords 194	Posted - 2013.11.18 12:00:00 - [57] - Quote I really wish people would cut out the misinformation about how hardeners work. Shield Hardeners - 40% reduction to damage when activated. Armor Hardeners - 60% reduction to damage when activated. The modifier is listing .4 for Shield and .6 for Armor as damage reduced by, not damage taken. 1.7 LAVs - Thoughts and Discussion
pegasis prime BIG BAD W0LVES 1293	Posted - 2013.11.18 12:14:00 - [58] - Quote Foundation Seldon wrote: I really wish people would cut out the misinformation about how hardeners work. Shield Hardeners - 40% reduction to damage when activated. Armor Hardeners - 60% reduction to damage when activated. The modifier is listing .4 for Shield and .6 for Armor as damage reduced by, not damage taken. there is some ambiguity around the description but it states it as a 0.4 multyplyer and thusly as I explained erlyer 60% resist now yes I could be wrong but so might you , lets just wait and see. Its gone from suck .....to blow level 1 forum warrior
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 736	Posted - 2013.11.18 13:30:00 - [59] - Quote What AV are you guys bitching about? AV 'nades and swarms are going to be virtually useless since they're getting nerfed, and forge gunners are too busy sniping infantry and dropships that are trying to knock them off the roofs. Unless forge gunners suddenly have an interest in playing AV again, I don't see you guys having any issues. EXERCISE... EX AR CISE... EGXS AR SISE... EGS ARE SISE... EGGS ARE SIDES.... FOR BACON..... BACON.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 7727	Posted - 2013.11.18 13:31:00 - [60] - Quote Pilot Suit Also there are skills that add 25% to duration and take 25% off of cooldown Words / Vids / OSG

Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1253	Posted - 2013.11.18 13:41:00 - [61] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: Welll... Try putting two shield resistance, a heavy booster and shield regen. Build your tank around the modules. Then again, i dont run shiled tanks. Just speculating. Are you speculating on the number of module slots and modules that will be available? Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.
Lorhak Gannarsein 608	Posted - 2013.11.19 04:19:00 - [62] - Quote pegasis prime wrote: Foundation Seldon wrote: I really wish people would cut out the misinformation about how hardeners work. Shield Hardeners - 40% reduction to damage when activated. Armor Hardeners - 60% reduction to damage when activated. The modifier is listing .4 for Shield and .6 for Armor as damage reduced by, not damage taken. there is some ambiguity around the description but it states it as a 0.4 multyplyer and thusly as I explained erlyer 60% resist now yes I could be wrong but so might you , lets just wait and see. It would be nice if CCP would come in and clarify the stats, but I suppose they've already done way more than ever before, where disclosure's concerned at least, so I'm not really complaining.
Tank Missile Intara Direct Action Caldari State 34	Posted - 2013.11.19 04:22:00 - [63] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: LUGMOS wrote: Welll... Try putting two shield resistance, a heavy booster and shield regen. Build your tank around the modules. Then again, i dont run shiled tanks. Just speculating. 2 hardeners and a booster is bad, 2600 shields LOL, no booster means bye bye by because no passive resistance=half shields gone bye first attack There won't be any passive resistance at all once 1.7 deploys...they are removing resistance amplifier modules to re-balance them..... "History is written by the victor-" Blah, blah blah, let's go shoot some stuff!
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 98	Posted - 2013.11.19 04:23:00 - [64] - Quote Tank Missile wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: LUGMOS wrote: Welll... Try putting two shield resistance, a heavy booster and shield regen. Build your tank around the modules. Then again, i dont run shiled tanks. Just speculating. 2 hardeners and a booster is bad, 2600 shields LOL, no booster means bye bye by because no passive resistance=half shields gone bye first attack There won't be any passive resistance at all once 1.7 deploys...they are removing resistance amplifier modules to re-balance them..... yea i know that recuruit link 5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit
Tank Missile Intara Direct Action Caldari State 36	Posted - 2013.11.19 04:38:00 - [65] - Quote The biggest problem that I have seen with the new update is lack of variety. Everybody using the 1.7 fitting tool has already figured out that 2 hardeners and a booster will give you ~35K eHP, and I doubt very many people will be looking at alternative fits seeing as how good that one is. I mean, my Sica currently has more ability to diversify than this upcoming Gunnlogi will. It's all very cookie cutter at a first glance, but I suppose we can only wait and see. "History is written by the victor-" Blah, blah blah, let's go shoot some stuff!
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 98	Posted - 2013.11.19 04:40:00 - [66] - Quote Tank Missile wrote: The biggest problem that I have seen with the new update is lack of variety. Everybody using the 1.7 fitting tool has already figured out that 2 hardeners and a booster will give you ~35K eHP, and I doubt very many people will be looking at alternative fits seeing as how good that one is. I mean, my Sica currently has more ability to diversify than this upcoming Gunnlogi will. It's all very cookie cutter at a first glance, but I suppose we can only wait and see. what bout booster hardener extender? recuruit link 5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit
CharCharOdell 1561	Posted - 2013.11.19 04:42:00 - [67] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Eurydice Itzhak wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: i think that instead of hit and run, it'll be hit and hide then get destroyed before cooldown ends or hide and run to redline. it should be 40 or 35 sec cooldown, then skills The current shield hardener has a cd of 30 seconds and NO tank uses these. I can see the complaints about almost doubling the cd. btw on a alt with a maddie, 15 seconds is enough for 1 guy to destroy, thats why i use 2 hardeners you'd be better off with 2 voltaic plates because you have a constant damage reduction of 28.05 instead of micromanaging for a 25 reduction. yay math! if u have 2 hardeners, use both at the same time for 46.75 reduction in damage Gùñ-é-º+¼+ò+¦GÖÑ+ú+ú+¡ GÖÑ'Ðe+ü+üGùÑ Gùú -ä>-üð+++Ç++§<-¡<-¡ Gùó Speaker of the Mangrove / King of QQ / Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
CharCharOdell 1561	Posted - 2013.11.19 04:42:00 - [68] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Tank Missile wrote: The biggest problem that I have seen with the new update is lack of variety. Everybody using the 1.7 fitting tool has already figured out that 2 hardeners and a booster will give you ~35K eHP, and I doubt very many people will be looking at alternative fits seeing as how good that one is. I mean, my Sica currently has more ability to diversify than this upcoming Gunnlogi will. It's all very cookie cutter at a first glance, but I suppose we can only wait and see. what bout booster hardener extender? what about: damage mod damage mod damage mod lol. yay chrome tanking! Gùñ-é-º+¼+ò+¦GÖÑ+ú+ú+¡ GÖÑ'Ðe+ü+üGùÑ Gùú -ä>-üð+++Ç++§<-¡<-¡ Gùó Speaker of the Mangrove / King of QQ / Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
Tank Missile Intara Direct Action Caldari State 36	Posted - 2013.11.19 04:45:00 - [69] - Quote CharCharOdell wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Tank Missile wrote: The biggest problem that I have seen with the new update is lack of variety. Everybody using the 1.7 fitting tool has already figured out that 2 hardeners and a booster will give you ~35K eHP, and I doubt very many people will be looking at alternative fits seeing as how good that one is. I mean, my Sica currently has more ability to diversify than this upcoming Gunnlogi will. It's all very cookie cutter at a first glance, but I suppose we can only wait and see. what bout booster hardener extender? what about: damage mod damage mod damage mod lol. yay chrome tanking! The diversity is astounding, right? "History is written by the victor-" Blah, blah blah, let's go shoot some stuff!
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 98	Posted - 2013.11.19 04:48:00 - [70] - Quote Tank Missile wrote: CharCharOdell wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Tank Missile wrote: The biggest problem that I have seen with the new update is lack of variety. Everybody using the 1.7 fitting tool has already figured out that 2 hardeners and a booster will give you ~35K eHP, and I doubt very many people will be looking at alternative fits seeing as how good that one is. I mean, my Sica currently has more ability to diversify than this upcoming Gunnlogi will. It's all very cookie cutter at a first glance, but I suppose we can only wait and see. what bout booster hardener extender? what about: damage mod damage mod damage mod lol. yay chrome tanking! The diversity is astounding, right? booster booster hardener recuruit link 5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit

Tank Missile Intara Direct Action Caldari State 36	Posted - 2013.11.19 04:50:00 - [71] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Tank Missile wrote: CharCharOdell wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Tank Missile wrote: The biggest problem that I have seen with the new update is lack of variety. Everybody using the 1.7 fitting tool has already figured out that 2 hardeners and a booster will give you ~35K eHP, and I doubt very many people will be looking at alternative fits seeing as how good that one is. I mean, my Sica currently has more ability to diversify than this upcoming Gunnlogi will. It's all very cookie cutter at a first glance, but I suppose we can only wait and see. what bout booster hardener extender? what about: damage mod damage mod damage mod lol. yay chrome tanking! The diversity is astounding, right? booster booster hardener Dust fitting tool says 17k eHP, but hardener, hardener, booster is 25k. 25 is the highest number I have been able to come up with so far. Why use anything else? "History is written by the victor-" Blah, blah blah, let's go shoot some stuff!
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 98	Posted - 2013.11.19 04:56:00 - [72] - Quote Tank Missile wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Tank Missile wrote: [quote=Tank Missile]The biggest problem that I have seen with the new update is lack of variety. Everybody using the 1.7 fitting tool has already figured out that 2 hardeners and a booster will give you ~35K eHP, and I doubt very many people will be looking at alternative fits seeing as how good that one is. I mean, my Sica currently has more ability to diversify than this upcoming Gunnlogi will. It's all very cookie cutter at a first glance, but I suppose we can only wait and see. what bout booster hardener extender? what about: damage mod damage mod damage mod lol. yay chrome tanking. Dust fitting tool s get hit with hardener off turn hardener on booster at half hp kill hardener on cooldown lose 75% hp booster use hardener when hit again <50% hp? booster repeat til VICTORY recuruit link 5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Kinsho Swords Caldari State 100	Posted - 2013.11.19 06:56:00 - [73] - Quote Eurydice Itzhak wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: i think that instead of hit and run, it'll be hit and hide then get destroyed before cooldown ends or hide and run to redline. it should be 40 or 35 sec cooldown, then skills The current shield hardener has a cd of 30 seconds and NO tank uses these. I can see the complaints about almost doubling the cd. You kidding me right ???? I use hardeners on ALL my tank fits . See ya'll on the battle field because I'm opting out and will be a vehicle drivers worst nightmare . " Doubts are like flies and should be crushed !!!!!! " I hope that I am THE FLY SWATTER of those in my presence .
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 99	Posted - 2013.11.19 07:09:00 - [74] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: Eurydice Itzhak wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: i think that instead of hit and run, it'll be hit and hide then get destroyed before cooldown ends or hide and run to redline. it should be 40 or 35 sec cooldown, then skills The current shield hardener has a cd of 30 seconds and NO tank uses these. I can see the complaints about almost doubling the cd. You kidding me right ???? I use hardeners on ALL my tank fits . See ya'll on the battle field because I'm opting out and will be a vehicle drivers worst nightmare . no you won', i'll kill you over and over again for trying to solo me, like some kid solo'd my incubus in 1 clip with 2485 armor, avtive hardener on and a light efficient armor rep........................... recuruit link 5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit


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