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[Request] Carbines for sidearms

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DeadlyAztec11 Gallente Federation 2623	Posted - 2013.11.17 23:23:00 - [1] - Quote This idea spawns from the "Logi sidearm only" debacle. Carbines, basically compact, less powerful versions of rifles. Make them equipable as a sidearm and light weapon. *The amount of CPU and PG requirements is doubled if you equip it as a sidearm on every suit except* for Logis**. So in essence these weapons would only be practical to run on Logistic suits, as any other suit would do better with an SMG or Magsec SMG. How do you guys feel about this idea? Madness is the emergency exit. You can just step outside, and close the door on all those dreadful things that happened.
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe PC RISE of LEGION 952	Posted - 2013.11.18 00:00:00 - [2] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: This idea spawns from the "Logi sidearm only" debacle. Carbines, basically compact, less powerful versions of rifles. Make them equipable as a sidearm and light weapon. *The amount of CPU and PG requirements is doubled if you equip it as a sidearm on every suit except* for Logis**. So in essence these weapons would only be practical to run on Logistic suits, as any other suit would do better with an SMG or Magsec SMG. How do you guys feel about this idea? We used to have carbines. Those of us from closed beta will remember the "compact ar" which used to be a salvage drop item. I seem to recall it was a light weapon though and the only difference from standard weapons was its lower cpu/pg costs. I realize what you're proposing is a different beast entirely but I just wanted to point out that this kind of used to exist. Fun > Realism
DeadlyAztec11 Gallente Federation 2628	Posted - 2013.11.18 00:42:00 - [3] - Quote So far, I am thinking that the compact AR would have a faster damage drop off, less rounds per magazine, more recoil, smaller hip fire spread. Thoughts? Madness is the emergency exit. You can just step outside, and close the door on all those dreadful things that happened.
abarkrishna The Elysian Knights 59	Posted - 2013.11.18 00:48:00 - [4] - Quote Double PG/ CPU for everything but logis. You mean the AMARR logi. No other logi suits have a side arm. This was a stupid idea. Besides with the SMG being just a strong as the duvolle who the hell would want to even use this? It's pointless. They call me the C.L.I.T commander.
Ulysses Knapse duna corp 596	Posted - 2013.11.18 00:51:00 - [5] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Carbines, basically compact, less powerful versions of rifles. Make them equipable as a sidearm and light weapon. *The amount of CPU and PG requirements is doubled if you equip it as a sidearm on every suit except* for Logis*. So in essence these weapons would only be practical to run on Logistic suits, as any other suit would do better with an SMG or Magsec SMG. What's the main difference between an automatic carbine and a submachine gun? Wait, there isn't one... Submachine guns are* automatic carbines (though the reverse is not always true). The prolonged use of this terminology will make me go insane. Humanity is the personification of change.
Thurak1 Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 379	Posted - 2013.11.18 00:55:00 - [6] - Quote carbines have a stock to them sub machine guns normally do not. Carbines are not a typical sidearm they are generally more of a special purpose AR like for room to room clearing.
DeadlyAztec11 Gallente Federation 2629	Posted - 2013.11.18 00:56:00 - [7] - Quote abarkrishna wrote: Double PG/ CPU for everything but logis. You mean the AMARR logi. No other logi suits have a side arm. Making a gun that is only practical to use for one race and class is just idiotic. facepalm This is idea is to support All Logis having ONLY sidearms, then the Amarr Logi would have two sidearms. Madness is the emergency exit. You can just step outside, and close the door on all those dreadful things that happened.
DeadlyAztec11 Gallente Federation 2629	Posted - 2013.11.18 00:59:00 - [8] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Carbines, basically compact, less powerful versions of rifles. Make them equipable as a sidearm and light weapon. *The amount of CPU and PG requirements is doubled if you equip it as a sidearm on every suit except* for Logis*. So in essence these weapons would only be practical to run on Logistic suits, as any other suit would do better with an SMG or Magsec SMG. What's the main difference between an automatic carbine and a submachine gun? Wait, there isn't one... Submachine guns are* automatic carbines (though the reverse is not always true). The prolonged use of this terminology will make me go insane. Submachine guns use pistol caliber rounds. Carbines use rifle rounds PDW's use specialized ammo that is neither meant for rifles or SMG's. Those are the definitions for the real life versions. Madness is the emergency exit. You can just step outside, and close the door on all those dreadful things that happened.
Hecarim Van Hohen Project Serenity 251	Posted - 2013.11.18 01:03:00 - [9] - Quote Compact (insert gun) could have smaller magazine, less total ammo, smaller heat cap and less dmg and so on. Not a bad idea :) D-í¦¦¦¦i-ó¦¦¦+¦¿¦ºv-ë-£i-ë¦ó¦¦d¦ò-Ç¦íe¦¦-ë-í¦ò-ó ¦ò¦+-üw¦¿¦¦e-ü -ë¦òs¦¢¦+t-Å¦+-£a¦¢-án-¥¦¢-ƒ¦¢d-ü-í-ó¦ó-ó ¦¦u-ÿ-ó¦¦¦+n-ÿ-í¦¦-ü-ëi¦ó-ó-Pt-Å-Åe¦º-Å-Çd-Å-ó -ü-ÿ-ü-íw¦¿-¥-£¦í-ëe¦¦-ÿ-ü -í-ü¦óf-ía¦¢¦+-P¦í-ól-ƒ¦ó
Ulysses Knapse duna corp 596	Posted - 2013.11.18 01:17:00 - [10] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Submachine guns use pistol caliber rounds. True enough. DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Carbines use rifle rounds. Not true, captain. The word "carbine" specifies barrel length, not caliber. Most modern weapons we call "carbines" use intermediate rounds. Carbines that use pistol caliber rounds are called submachine guns. DeadlyAztec11 wrote: PDW's use specialized ammo that is neither meant for rifles or SMG's. This is partially true. They use intermediate caliber rounds, same as Assault Rifles, but the rounds are shorter. DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Those are the definitions for the real life versions. You did a fairly poor job of coming up with that information, seeing as it's a third correct, a third partially correct, and a third incorrect. Humanity is the personification of change.

Cosgar ParagonX 7882	Posted - 2013.11.18 01:22:00 - [11] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: abarkrishna wrote: Double PG/ CPU for everything but logis. You mean the AMARR logi. No other logi suits have a side arm. Making a gun that is only practical to use for one race and class is just idiotic. facepalm This is idea is to support All Logis having ONLY sidearms, then the Amarr Logi would have two sidearms. Here's the biggest problem with the sidearm only argument. Think about the ranges the other classes are fighting at, now think about the range logis would be forced to fight at to support their team. Now decide if you would rather have dead weight support only on your team, or someone that can support you through kills and equipment. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Leithe Askarii Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State 7	Posted - 2013.11.18 01:25:00 - [12] - Quote Cosgar wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: abarkrishna wrote: Double PG/ CPU for everything but logis. You mean the AMARR logi. No other logi suits have a side arm. Making a gun that is only practical to use for one race and class is just idiotic. facepalm This is idea is to support All Logis having ONLY sidearms, then the Amarr Logi would have two sidearms. Here's the biggest problem with the sidearm only argument. Think about the ranges the other classes are fighting at, now think about the range logis would be forced to fight at to support their team. Now decide if you would rather have dead weight support only on your team, or someone that can support you through kills and equipment. I don't see an issue with that. At standard engagement ranges Logi's support their squad first and can then deal with secondary targets who close the distance with great fire power, this would reinforce the support role IMO, I would logi if Logi suits weren't essentially the jack of all trades, master of all. (( and I do understand the Logi draw backs, but they can cover almost any other suits specialised role better than it can and still support the team))
Justin Tymes Dem Durrty Boyz 499	Posted - 2013.11.18 01:29:00 - [13] - Quote The Side-arm idea is terrible, give it a rest. There is nothing wrong with a Logi using Light weapons, take advantage of the fact that Logis have no way to cover up the weaknesses of the main weapon out side of Amarr, which is too slow to pursue anything.
DeadlyAztec11 Gallente Federation 2629	Posted - 2013.11.18 01:37:00 - [14] - Quote Cosgar wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: abarkrishna wrote: Double PG/ CPU for everything but logis. You mean the AMARR logi. No other logi suits have a side arm. Making a gun that is only practical to use for one race and class is just idiotic. facepalm This is idea is to support All Logis having ONLY sidearms, then the Amarr Logi would have two sidearms. Here's the biggest problem with the sidearm only argument. Think about the ranges the other classes are fighting at, now think about the range logis would be forced to fight at to support their team. Now decide if you would rather have dead weight support only on your team, or someone that can support you through kills and equipment. The Carbine would decrease the range difference. Logi's shouldn't be the first line of defense anyways; if they manage to get past your Assaults, Heavy and scouts, they should be damaged enough that you only need a couple of rounds from your Sidearm. I also don't understand why having only a sidearm is so bad, I only have a sidearm on my Minmatar Assault since it's an AV fit. I still do all right. Stay behind the Assaults and Heavy instead of leading the charge and you will be fine. Madness is the emergency exit. You can just step outside, and close the door on all those dreadful things that happened.
Cosgar ParagonX 7885	Posted - 2013.11.18 01:40:00 - [15] - Quote Leithe Askarii wrote: Cosgar wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: abarkrishna wrote: Double PG/ CPU for everything but logis. You mean the AMARR logi. No other logi suits have a side arm. Making a gun that is only practical to use for one race and class is just idiotic. facepalm This is idea is to support All Logis having ONLY sidearms, then the Amarr Logi would have two sidearms. Here's the biggest problem with the sidearm only argument. Think about the ranges the other classes are fighting at, now think about the range logis would be forced to fight at to support their team. Now decide if you would rather have dead weight support only on your team, or someone that can support you through kills and equipment. I don't see an issue with that. At standard engagement ranges Logi's support their squad first and can then deal with secondary targets who close the distance with great fire power, this would reinforce the support role IMO, I would logi if Logi suits weren't essentially the jack of all trades, master of all. (( and I do understand the Logi draw backs, but they can cover almost any other suits specialised role better than it can and still support the team)) Logis are far from the jack of all trades. The extra customization comes at the cost of being SP and ISK intensive for a thankless job on the battlefield and misinformed players trying to nerf the very class that only wants to help because some tryhards want to abuse one specific suit due to broken core game mechanics. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 7106	Posted - 2013.11.18 02:00:00 - [16] - Quote NO Logis don't need their light weapons taken away. Assaults just need to have bonuses to make their weapons better (thus be better at assaulting) like the Amarr assault enhances laser weaponry. Once TTK is fixed, the general assault bonus should be a 1% damage bonus for all light weapons per level to enhance the assault role. Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of the threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
Draco Cerberus Hell's Gate Inc 507	Posted - 2013.11.18 02:04:00 - [17] - Quote Having only a sidearm is bad because it is a huge limitation on what a Logi can do. Then they are limited to short-med range rather than being able to fire at all ranges. The limit to one light/sidearm is ok because it say you can only engage in one engagement range per fitting. *One Universe...with friendly fire and Open World Game Play for all!*
Text Grant Death Firm. 228	Posted - 2013.11.18 02:15:00 - [18] - Quote No. Just give up.
Leithe Askarii Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State 10	Posted - 2013.11.18 02:16:00 - [19] - Quote Draco Cerberus wrote: Having only a sidearm is bad because it is a huge limitation on what a Logi can do. Then they are limited to short-med range rather than being able to fire at all ranges. The limit to one light/sidearm is ok because it say you can only engage in one engagement range per fitting. Their role is not dedicated Slayer, consider it like BF where only Assault has access to all AR and Carbines, while other classes are restricted to carbines and other specific weapons.
Cosgar ParagonX 7888	Posted - 2013.11.18 02:20:00 - [20] - Quote Leithe Askarii wrote: Draco Cerberus wrote: Having only a sidearm is bad because it is a huge limitation on what a Logi can do. Then they are limited to short-med range rather than being able to fire at all ranges. The limit to one light/sidearm is ok because it say you can only engage in one engagement range per fitting. Their role is not dedicated Slayer, consider it like BF where only Assault has access to all AR and Carbines, while other classes are restricted to carbines and other specific weapons. Assaults have access to all light weapons and and sidearms while they can equip two weapons. Logistics have access to all light weapons, but no sidearm. Amarr logi is the exception, but they get less equipment slots. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"

TechMechMeds Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc. 1447	Posted - 2013.11.18 02:22:00 - [21] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: So far, I am thinking that the compact AR would have a faster damage drop off, less rounds per magazine, more recoil, smaller hip fire spread. Thoughts? Sounds like an assault SMG but worse lol. Level 1 forum warrior. Minmatar and Gallente fw. Fix PC lag please CCP.
Leithe Askarii Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State 10	Posted - 2013.11.18 02:41:00 - [22] - Quote TechMechMeds wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: So far, I am thinking that the compact AR would have a faster damage drop off, less rounds per magazine, more recoil, smaller hip fire spread. Thoughts? Sounds like an assault SMG but worse lol. I think he wants to place the Carbine between the AR and SMG , but with greater fire power. I just wish this game had done the smart thing and kept to the standard FPS rule. An AR has 30-31 rounds....and we had not balanced all other guns around ridiculous 60 round standard magazines. 60 Rounds effectively makes the AR an LMG, killing the role of LMG, and by extention relegating the HMG to a massive ammo cap, low accuracy spray n pray minigun.
abarkrishna The Elysian Knights 67	Posted - 2013.11.18 02:52:00 - [23] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: abarkrishna wrote: Double PG/ CPU for everything but logis. You mean the AMARR logi. No other logi suits have a side arm. Making a gun that is only practical to use for one race and class is just idiotic. facepalm This is idea is to support All Logis having ONLY sidearms, then the Amarr Logi would have two sidearms. Logi's are meant to be support which means they should be at a distance from the front lines but close enough to your teammates to ressuply them. Giving them only side arms severely reduces their effective range. Which is a logi's Specialty. Why not get rid of assault rifles. Oh and stop giving WP for kills. Oh lets make it so that logis can only revive people and give them ammo. This is literally the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Please do the world a favor and do not breed. They call me the C.L.I.T commander.
DeadlyAztec11 Gallente Federation 2631	Posted - 2013.11.18 02:55:00 - [24] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Submachine guns use pistol caliber rounds. True enough. DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Carbines use rifle rounds. Not true, captain. The word "carbine" specifies barrel length, not caliber. Most modern weapons we call "carbines" use intermediate rounds. Carbines that use pistol caliber rounds are called submachine guns. DeadlyAztec11 wrote: PDW's use specialized ammo that is neither meant for rifles or SMG's. This is partially true. They use intermediate caliber rounds, same as Assault Rifles, but the rounds are shorter. DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Those are the definitions for the real life versions. You did a fairly poor job of coming up with that information, seeing as it's a third correct, a third partially correct, and a third incorrect. When you say "intermediate round" you have to use it in context. Do you mean intermediate round across all platforms or just one broad category of weapons? You could be talking about intermediate rifle rounds or pistol rounds, you could also be putting both in the same pool. But then again this is all subjective BS, like what is a battle rifle vs. Marksman Rifle VS Assault Rifle. The M14 what is it? Battle Rifle? What if I only use a a scope and semi auto only? Marksman Rifle? What if I use full auto and a red dot sight? Assault Rifle? It doesn't use intermediate rifle rounds. Also I know that Carbine only applies to barrel length, hence the Brown Bess in the American Revolution (in its short land pattern) was a Carbine. Though I was using it in its modern context where it only applies to a shortened rifle. You may talk about PCC's, but even then you make a destinction between it and a shortened rifle. Hell, a freakin' Luger with a stock is considered a Carbine. Yet an Armalite based rifle is a pistol if you remove the butt stock, put it back on and it's a rifle ( -_-) But I'd like to reiterate, this is all nonsensical. Madness is the emergency exit. You can just step outside, and close the door on all those dreadful things that happened.
DeadlyAztec11 Gallente Federation 2631	Posted - 2013.11.18 02:57:00 - [25] - Quote TechMechMeds wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: So far, I am thinking that the compact AR would have a faster damage drop off, less rounds per magazine, more recoil, smaller hip fire spread. Thoughts? Sounds like an assault SMG but worse lol. More than half of the bullets don't even register on that thing, just dropped it for the Six Kin. Madness is the emergency exit. You can just step outside, and close the door on all those dreadful things that happened.
Meeko Fent Commando Perkone Caldari State 1580	Posted - 2013.11.18 02:58:00 - [26] - Quote Quick, grab the eraser! erases the Word SMG after Magsec Ta-da! Magsec carbine. designed to strike farther then a regular sidearm, but still maintaining the size and resource needs that all sidearms are accompanied with, the Magsec Carbine is a recently Refined older design. The Standard Version 35m Optimal 56 Damage per shot. 450 ROF. A Baby RR. Give it a reflex sight, and bam. Instant Carbine. For the State! For Caldari FW join Caldari Hierarchy Replication Warrior
DeadlyAztec11 Gallente Federation 2632	Posted - 2013.11.18 03:01:00 - [27] - Quote Text Grant wrote: No. Just give up. ;_; Give up? ... @_@ You're talking to the guy that killed an Enforcer tank with standard locus grenades and a breach Shotgun. Madness is the emergency exit. You can just step outside, and close the door on all those dreadful things that happened.
abarkrishna The Elysian Knights 68	Posted - 2013.11.18 03:02:00 - [28] - Quote Leithe Askarii wrote: Cosgar wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: abarkrishna wrote: Double PG/ CPU for everything but logis. You mean the AMARR logi. No other logi suits have a side arm. Making a gun that is only practical to use for one race and class is just idiotic. facepalm This is idea is to support All Logis having ONLY sidearms, then the Amarr Logi would have two sidearms. Here's the biggest problem with the sidearm only argument. Think about the ranges the other classes are fighting at, now think about the range logis would be forced to fight at to support their team. Now decide if you would rather have dead weight support only on your team, or someone that can support you through kills and equipment. I don't see an issue with that. At standard engagement ranges Logi's support their squad first and can then deal with secondary targets who close the distance with great fire power, this would reinforce the support role IMO, I would logi if Logi suits weren't essentially the jack of all trades, master of all. (( and I do understand the Logi draw backs, but they can cover almost any other suits specialised role better than it can and still support the team)) You do not see an issue with the fact that you are just about as slow as a heavy stuck using a pistol or sub machine gun when the rest of your team is dying and there is nothing you can do to stop it because you max range is 30 feet. Try making a logi with only a pistol on it and try to play as a logi. Then maybe you will not come up with such ******** ideas. They call me the C.L.I.T commander.
DeadlyAztec11 Gallente Federation 2632	Posted - 2013.11.18 03:02:00 - [29] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: Quick, grab the eraser! erases the Word SMG after Magsec Ta-da! Magsec carbine. designed to strike farther then a regular sidearm, but still maintaining the size and resource needs that all sidearms are accompanied with, the Magsec Carbine is a recently Refined older design. The Standard Version 35m Optimal 56 Damage per shot. 450 ROF. A Baby RR. Give it a reflex sight, and bam. Instant Carbine. Yes! Meeko has the right idea! Brain storm people! Madness is the emergency exit. You can just step outside, and close the door on all those dreadful things that happened.
Meeko Fent Commando Perkone Caldari State 1581	Posted - 2013.11.18 03:02:00 - [30] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Text Grant wrote: No. Just give up. ;_; Give up? ... @_@ You're talking to the guy that killed an Enforcer tank with standard locus grenades and a breach Shotgun. Well, hose things are the shitiest tanks. For the State! For Caldari FW join Caldari Hierarchy Replication Warrior



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