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Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
349
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Posted - 2013.11.16 23:51:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hey,
I'm considering skilling into complex profile dampening to make my medium frame suits get under advanced scanners, but before I commit those 900k SP I'd like to ask what everyone else thinks about the relative value of this investment.
I definitely wouldn't mind putting those SP towards another prototype weapon or an advanced gallente scout suit, but I've seen that "You've been scanned" message a couple times too often lately. So what has your experience been like with complex profile dampening on medium suits? Is it worth it or is everyone else running prototype scanners anyways? |
IceShifter Childhaspawn
DUST University
Ivy League
391
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Posted - 2013.11.17 02:00:00 -
[2] - Quote
Personally, I don't go proto with the scanners for 2 reasons
1. They don't light up for very long
2. Anyone who is sacrificing their tank to be hidden is either a sniper (In case you ignore them until you must deal with them) or running with a pack to make up for their smaller tank ( in which case Ill see them as soon as I get LOS on their buddies)
If you are going to go for the invisible suit idea, you have got to flank everything and stay away from the main paths of travel. |
Aseair
Namtar Elite
Gallente Federation
53
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Posted - 2013.11.18 05:57:00 -
[3] - Quote
It really depends on you and your style. If you love flanking maneuvers then this is definitely a good idea. If you're more the "run into the battlefield on full auto" kinda guys...then probably not a sound investment.
Memento vos sunt immortales
I am a scout. If you see me, I deserve to get shot.
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Canis Ferox
Ultramarine Corp
7
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Posted - 2013.11.19 17:27:00 -
[4] - Quote
Scan them back. It feels good and removes the advantage.
I also well agree with Ice Breaker - I run a Prototype Gallente Scout with militia profile dampeners - also considering upgrading - so I slip under most radars, but I can't run armour plates or repairers at the same time - I have those in a different fit, slower suit, which is easier to see (higher profile).
When I run my 'stealth' suit I cannot attack head on, this would be suicide - I edge around buildings watching my radar for an enemy who hasn't spotted me to turn away or run across my path and then pop out and blap him. If he survives the initial attack I have to run away. So I think the best defense against scanners is the best defense against anything in Dust since patch 1.6: Brick tank the truck out of your suits - get armour and shield upgrades (your choice) and keep to cover - then it don't matter none if they know where you are.
Any help? |
Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
355
|
Posted - 2013.11.19 17:51:00 -
[5] - Quote
Thanks for the replies. It sure isn't the answer I was looking for, but I'll avoid skilling dampeners for now. I figure it's wiser to look at what 1.7 brings to scanning before committing almost a million SP into something.
Those SP are burning a hole into my skill sheet though, I can tell you that much.  |
Heavenly Daughter
the Aurum Grinder and Company
154
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Posted - 2013.11.19 19:52:00 -
[6] - Quote
Stefan Stahl wrote:Thanks for the replies. It sure isn't the answer I was looking for, but I'll avoid skilling dampeners for now. I figure it's wiser to look at what 1.7 brings to scanning before committing almost a million SP into something. Those SP are burning a hole into my skill sheet though, I can tell you that much.
Think thats a bad idea, You will need level 5 skill but only an enhanced dampener to get below advanced scans, even at level 4 I was getting messages of scan prevented on a medium suit. Best also work on precision and range but I don't bother with mods for those.
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IceShifter Childhaspawn
DUST University
Ivy League
407
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Posted - 2013.11.19 19:58:00 -
[7] - Quote
Bumping what heavenly stated.
Since these are passive skills, they do matter, just not enough for the modules they unlock in your situation.
GûæGûæGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûê ]GûäGûäGûäGûäGûäGûäGûä - Just a bit further...
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..GùÑGèÖGû¦GèÖGùñ......GùÑGèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGùñ xxx xxx xxx
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Sgt Buttscratch
R 0 N 1 N
1019
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Posted - 2013.11.22 18:40:00 -
[8] - Quote
It works if you also have speed, being unseen is great, but reducing armor means when you are found your in trouble. I have been testing a faster, profile dampened assault, it can work, it's also fun, the speed helps you flank, retreat, or swift attack with beter luck, you will either need a scanner or remotes though. I have precision enhancements also so I can see people a little to close also.
I suggest making several suits, with variation in amounts of speed, profile dampening and also stamina, find what works for you. You will have to learn to be a lot smoother with attacks tho. lacking X amount of armor versus the godlike GalLogi killers can be bad.
I stick my weiner in two buns and and then give it the gas
Sour cream from my spleen into Levi jeans
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Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
356
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Posted - 2013.11.22 21:22:00 -
[9] - Quote
My most likely fit would be trading some 40 hp and 1.5 hp/s of armor regen versus being unseen by advanced scanners. The hp difference is equivalent to merely one AR bullet, so I guess the dampener definitely increases survivability if the enemy doesn't have a prototype scanner.
However I'm fairly certain that active scanning is going to receive some changes come 1.7, so I'll re-evaluate afterwards. Thanks for the opinions though.  |
Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
356
|
Posted - 2013.11.24 21:58:00 -
[10] - Quote
I yielded. 
Today I skilled into those dampeners and fitted my favorite assault suit with a dampener. I'm not regretting the choice a couple of matches later, but final judgment will be made later down the line. Apparently there are fewer PRO scanners in public matches than I thought.
I changed my mind about holding back until 1.7 when I realized that I'm sitting on 800k SP in vehicles that will be refunded come 1.7 and that after completing my Caldari assault setup with the RR I will likely go into light suits anyways, so profile dampening sounds like a good idea both in the short and long term. |
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KrazyEyeKilla
The Phalanx Inc
28
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Posted - 2013.11.24 22:16:00 -
[11] - Quote
What about precision enhancement for assault suits? If it was skilled to level 5, would it still be effective without a module fitted?
For example if your hacking a letter would the enemy approaching from a blind spot be detected? Or if they were flanking you or approaching from behind.
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Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
356
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Posted - 2013.11.25 17:42:00 -
[12] - Quote
KrazyEyeKilla wrote:What about precision enhancement for assault suits? If it was skilled to level 5, would it still be effective without a module fitted?
For example if your hacking a letter would the enemy approaching from a blind spot be detected? Or if they were flanking you or approaching from behind.
Yes, you would*.
There had to be an asterisk, didn't it? The math is as follows: The base scan precision of a basic or assault suit is 55 dB, the base scan profile is 50 dB. Scan precision at level 5 grants a 10% reduction to scan precision, that is 55 dB * 0.9 = 49.5 dB, which - obviously - is lower than the 50 dB scan profile cited above, thus you can see this enemy on your radar if he is within 10 m, or whatever your effective scan range may be.
However, if that enemy had any skills in profile dampening - such as me ( ) - their scan profile would be lower than 49.5 dB and they would thus not appear on your radar. Actually even a single level in profile dampening is sufficient to put you below those 49.5 dB.
Logistics suits, for some reason, have a scan precision of 50 dB. That means that a logistics player with levels in precision enhancement is going to be able to see any medium suit on their radar that has less profile dampening skills than they have in precision enhancement (not accounting for any modules).
On the topic of profile dampening:
Today I got into a shootout between my dampened A/1 SCR fitting and another guy in a A/1 SCR fitting with a scanner. If I hadn't used the dampener he would've had ample chance to land charged shots on my head, instead I got the drop on him on several occasions after reading "SCAN ATTEMPT PREVENTED". That felt good.  |
KrazyEyeKilla
The Phalanx Inc
28
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Posted - 2013.12.05 11:44:00 -
[13] - Quote
Whats your opinion on range amplification for medium suits. Would it be useful? Again without any modules fitted. |
Seeth Mensch
highland marines
66
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Posted - 2013.12.05 17:12:00 -
[14] - Quote
Great information. I toy with the whole scan/precision thing a lot, right now I'm sitting at 3/1/3 (going down the line, I don't remember exactly which is which). I really want 5's in all of them...getting back my SP from vehicles is going to be hard to simply reinvest!
Hi! Gosh, I've missed you...with every bullet, plasma shot, rail gun, and missile.
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Seeth Mensch
highland marines
66
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Posted - 2013.12.05 17:13:00 -
[15] - Quote
KrazyEyeKilla wrote:Whats your opinion on range amplification for medium suits. Would it be useful? Again without any modules fitted.
Heya. Range amp = win when you can see them. I have it at 3 and I have a number of times gotten the drop on someone because I "saw" them on the other side of a wall.
Hello, bad guy. Meet RE. RE, meet....oh, he's gone now.
Hi! Gosh, I've missed you...with every bullet, plasma shot, rail gun, and missile.
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Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
368
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Posted - 2013.12.05 17:14:00 -
[16] - Quote
KrazyEyeKilla wrote:Whats your opinion on range amplification for medium suits. Would it be useful? Again without any modules fitted. Most likely not.
The base scan range of a medium suit is 10 meters, even at range amplification 5 that would only be 15 meters (10% per lvl). Even adding a complex range amplification module you'd only arrive at 21.75 meters (45% bonus). For reference, that's about the effective range of an SMG.
Then there's the topic of scan precision. As explained four posts above you'll have a hard time detecting anything but heavy suits while using a medium suit. That limits the usefulness of this setup even further.
Bottom line: If you're going to be hunting heavy suits with a shotgun around tight corners, then yes, this is useful. Otherwise you'll likely want a different setup. |
Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
368
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 17:18:00 -
[17] - Quote
Seeth Mensch wrote:KrazyEyeKilla wrote:Whats your opinion on range amplification for medium suits. Would it be useful? Again without any modules fitted. Heya. Range amp = win when you can see them. I have it at 3 and I have a number of times gotten the drop on someone because I "saw" them on the other side of a wall. Hello, bad guy. Meet RE. RE, meet....oh, he's gone now. Try that with the Gallente Scout at lvl 3. Including your current skills and an enhanced range amplification module you'd arrive at a scan range of 36 meters and a scan precision of 42.3. That covers almost all medium suits in about the optimal range of an AR. That's pretty much a wall-hack.
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Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders
2088
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Posted - 2013.12.06 02:02:00 -
[18] - Quote
I have both Minmatar Logistics and Scout to 5 with 3 in all of the scanning skills. After running scout for a few matches switching back to logistics is rough losing all that passive scanning data. When I switch to a basic medium frame, comparable to an assault, it's even worse. The precision of assault and basic mediums just doesn't cut it.
Bottom line: range amps aren't worth it if you're not going to detect anything except heavies. They might be worth it on logistics since they can detect mediums.
// Adapt or Die // Matari Logistics / Scout / Dropship Crash Tester // @ReesNoturana
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lee corwood
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
6
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Posted - 2013.12.09 18:11:00 -
[19] - Quote
I'm personally torn on the dampeners as I feel its a race as to who can get to lvl 5 proficiency first on either side. I'm only skilled in lvl 3 scanner and nothing in amp or ext and I can detect most all suits. I find that every once in a while, there is a blimp on my radar that doesn't stay lit and I know immediately that person is using dampeners. That being said, the most successful people I see running with dampeners are scouts. They stick with their team to let them engage the most fire while flanking as efficiently as possible. However, if you're discovered, the odds are not in your favor. I'm scanned back just as often, but as a pure logi, I stick tightly with my team to keep them alive and fed and not the weak sheepling left all alone. I think in a true team environment, unless your specific gameplay style is a lot of flanking with the hope of not getting caught, dampeners are not the greatest investment compared to other skills.
EDIT: also, while passively knowing where your enemy is is great for those who choose to flank, some one on the team needs to be relaying that information to the team as well to really create cohesive teamwork.
I'm sorry, but you've ruined the emperor's groove.
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Artificer Ghost
Bojo's School of the Trades
655
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Posted - 2013.12.09 18:39:00 -
[20] - Quote
As a Stealth-Tanking scouts, I just wanted to put my opinion here. :)
I rarely die while playing Scout. I don't get seen, and I see everything. Seems like a good set-up for me! I have Level 3 in Profile Dampening, 4 in Precision, and 3 in Range, and on a Minmatar Scout, I think it works just fine. Like everyone is saying here, you'd be giving up your main tank, but you need to remember it's not your job to fight. It's your job to make it so it isn't a fight. 90% of the kills I get, aren't even a struggle. It's just me putting a knife in their back, or a couple SMG rounds in their head.
Take the Research Facility for example, I run straight to Bravo (Whichever one is the objective inside the circle room), and hide in the room NEXT to it, waiting for the enemy to come in and try to hack. When they do, it takes a fully charged Knife hit to end them.
I also camp on corners, and when someone walks past, I love to follow them. On one of the newer maps (With he zig-zag road), I followed an Amarrian Assault for about 45 seconds before killing him. Not because I was waiting for him to get to a good spot, but because I knew I had plenty of time before I was spotted, and I could insta-kill him whenever I wanted.
And I'm sure you're good at Stealth Tanking, if you have Level 3, but I'm just going to put a couple tips here for doing the role.
-Never hack anything. Unless you aren't scanning a damn thing, hacking can and WILL get you killed. The only requirement is that it ISNT a Null Cannon, because those flash while being hacked. If it's a Null Cannon, leave it to the blueberries. Or the redberries, if you want to slit their throats.
-Camp corners. Cheap tactic, I know, but if you just sit next to a doorway with fully charged knives, you're probably going to kill them. Very little of the time, I get killed while doing this. Unless he's a heavy. Then I die.
-Flanking flanking flanking. It's harder in a medium suit than it is a Scout, but if there's a firefight, don't be a part of it. Run away, run around the building, and knife them in the back.
-If you're spotted, use your sidearm. Most reliable panic weapon you could use is an SMG. If you're good with a pistol, go for it, but most of the time, it'll be too hectic to keep calm and aim.
I make top of the leaderboard using my LogicLoop Scout M-1, with less than 5 deaths each match, and always more than 10 kills.
TL;DR, even though you're going to be giving up your main tank, a dedicated Stealth player kicks arse.
EDIT: Also, never run in a group to compensate for your low tank. It'll get you killed. Your group members often have a higher profile than you do, and even a Heavy is able to spot a big group of people sitting around a corner. If anything, use your teammates as distractions.
EDIT EDIT: Scan Profile increases the closer you are to a large object. Neutral installations/objectives don't apply here, but a good example of this is when you scan a red walking near your CRU on the respawn screen. Plenty of times, I hear squadmates saying "Why do they scan me? I can't even be seen by ADV scanners!" because they were sitting near a CRU or something. Note: With at least 1 ADV dampener and Level 3 in Dampening, you are still pretty much invisible while standing near any type of installation/objective.
~Art, CEO and Director of Educations at Bojo's School of The Trades, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
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Artificer Ghost
Bojo's School of the Trades
656
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Posted - 2013.12.09 18:43:00 -
[21] - Quote
Can I get a like for the time it took me to write that? :D
~Art, CEO and Director of Educations at Bojo's School of The Trades, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
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Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
369
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Posted - 2013.12.09 19:27:00 -
[22] - Quote
Well, thumbs up to you for playing a Scout as a Scout and not a slightly-faster-assault suit.
I've started putting skillpoints into Gallente Scout so I can one day utilize that magnificent 52 meter scan range. |
Artificer Ghost
Bojo's School of the Trades
656
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Posted - 2013.12.09 20:01:00 -
[23] - Quote
Awesome, I hope to face you, and demolish you in the ruthless bloodshed of battle. And you will be destroyed.
Seriously though, good on you for getting the Scout. It's a brave move. +1
~Art, CEO and Director of Educations at Bojo's School of The Trades, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
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Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
370
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Posted - 2013.12.09 20:24:00 -
[24] - Quote
So far my encounters with Scouts have been very positive. Recently that's because I go unnoticed on their radars and they are as surprised to see me as I am to see them (  ), but generally it's because my SCR/SCP-skills are good enough for me to get the headshot before they get within Shotgun-range. So considering that my anti-Scout-capabilities are only going to improve by switching to a scout suit: Bring it. 
Thanks for the fitting. What scan precision are you aiming for with that enhanced dampener?
I'm aiming for Scout lvl 3, so that in combination with dampening lvl 5 the suit naturally (without any mods) goes below 36 dB and thus avoids advanced dampeners. |
Artificer Ghost
Bojo's School of the Trades
657
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Posted - 2013.12.09 20:43:00 -
[25] - Quote
I actually haven't done much of the math involving scanning and stuff, I just know it works for battlefield assassination and flanking maneuvers.
Also, I know that ADV Scanners can't scan me, only prototype. But if you'd like, I can do some maths.
Noting, by the way, I once was playing around with my knives while waiting for an enemy to cap an objective (Beginning of the match, was doing my early-match objective-camping), basically charging them and cancelling with a melee. While I was doing this, it turns out that a Gallente Scout literally walked past me. It was at a position where he SHOULD have seen me, but I guess he was either not good at the game, or not careful, or just didn't scan me. Either way, he learned his lesson. :P
~Art, CEO and Director of Educations at Bojo's School of The Trades, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
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Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
370
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Posted - 2013.12.09 21:05:00 -
[26] - Quote
Believe me, I have all the math regarding profile dampeners. I've always been interested in the passive scanning sub-game, it's really well designed. After I have the Gallente Scout at least to lvl 3 I'll be looking forward to a new Scout suit with a bonus to scan precision (Caldari, perhaps?) so I can go hunt some hostile scouts.  |
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