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DPS comparision between AR, Combat rifle and Rail Rifle

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The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 1863	Posted - 2013.11.14 16:59:00 - [1] - Quote Well i had a look at the new weapons and the current AR. Ive got some quite interesting numbers and give you eventually a hint what to spec into and how it will perform (more or less) -So lets kick it off with the old fashioned duvolle with a DPS of 467 -the six kin assault combat rifle is slightly below it with 464 DPS. But at proto lvl you have 6m additional range! -the Kaalakiota rail rifle comes with 475DPS and the assault variant comes with 480 DPS. And it is the weapon with the highest range off all weapons (apart from sniper rifles and forgeguns) So what oes this tells us? A gun with the bets range and higher DPS then a duvolle is going to cause havok and will demolish AR users regardless of the range. I didnt included the burst rifles cause its a bit too tricky to evaluate the DPS on them but i can tell you allready that the raw damage on the combat (burst) rifle will be much higher then it is on the Allotek Burst AR. My unbiased view is that the AR will follow the same destiny like the dodo. And that is to extinct. The combat rifle has lower fitting cost, slightly better range and very similar DPS. The Raiil rifle will be a deadly tool cause you can outrange every 1 who doesnt wield a forgegun or sniper rifle and have more DPS then both of the above mentioned weapons. And the reason why i didnt included the scrambler or laser rifle is due to their overheat function which makes them only limited effective and if you fight more then 1 guy you overheat and fall over dead faster as you can whack your gun to cooldown. I shall show you a world, a world which you cant imagine, a world full off butthurt n00bs at the other end of my gun
TheAmazing FlyingPig Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 4575	Posted - 2013.11.14 17:02:00 - [2] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: My unbiased view The dark cloud wrote: the reason why i didnt included the scrambler or laser rifle is due to their overheat function which makes them only limited effective and if you fight more then 1 guy you overheat and fall over dead faster as you can whack your gun to cooldown Never forget Level 4 Forum Warrior King of airborne swine.
Disturbingly Bored The Strontium Asylum 1153	Posted - 2013.11.14 17:04:00 - [3] - Quote Yep. These numbers were floating around when the stats first came out, but it's good to remind the public. I'm not sure I'm going to like living in a world where the Gallente AR, after getting a buff from it's current state, is the most underpowered racial rifle... ¶Gêƒ__ Gò« Gû¿GûêGûêGûêGòáGëíGëíGëíGû¬ « GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GåÆFAT GATGåÉ pÇûGûôGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæpÇùForum Warrior LV 1 (NEXT: 100/1000XP) ¯Gò¦pÇôpÇù
Killar-12 The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 1725	Posted - 2013.11.14 17:21:00 - [4] - Quote Recoli? Spread? Wind up time? Having to fire a burst weapon? Do any of these come into play? Level 1 Forum Warrior I'm a bittervet, if I seem like a douche it's because of your stupidity
Lv2spd2 Slow And Old 71	Posted - 2013.11.14 17:34:00 - [5] - Quote Killar-12 wrote: Recoli? Spread? Wind up time? Having to fire a burst weapon? Do any of these come into play? Yes, but the doom sayers will not be silenced. The largest advantage of the AR right now is the lack of any drawbacks.
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 1864	Posted - 2013.11.14 17:35:00 - [6] - Quote Killar-12 wrote: Recoli? Spread? Wind up time? Having to fire a burst weapon? Do any of these come into play? The spool up time is only at the beginning of the fully auto fire and its so minimal that it doesnt matter. Ive didnt uncluded the burst variants and only mentioned the DPS for the fully auto rifles. I shall show you a world, a world which you cant imagine, a world full off butthurt n00bs at the other end of my gun
Awry Barux Ametat Security Amarr Empire 313	Posted - 2013.11.14 17:36:00 - [7] - Quote Yeah, according to wolfman the RR will have very high recoil, plus it has a 0.2 second spool up time, which may not sound like much, but when you come around a corner vs an AR, it's .2 seconds of DPS you're missing. Stop your doom and gloom. When the weapons come out, we shall see, and THEN if it's bad, you can whine. Until then, hush.
Daxxis KANNAH Distinct Covert Initiative 449	Posted - 2013.11.14 17:40:00 - [8] - Quote Lv2spd2 wrote: Killar-12 wrote: Recoli? Spread? Wind up time? Having to fire a burst weapon? Do any of these come into play? Yes, but the doom sayers will not be silenced. The largest advantage of the AR right now is the lack of any drawbacks. Which is why it should have the most dispersion and then they drop the sharpshooter skill. Force the wielder to fire in controlled bursts at range but can still unload on foes without hesitation once you get close enough.
Zekain K Expert Intervention Caldari State 476	Posted - 2013.11.14 17:41:00 - [9] - Quote Caldari master race.
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 1412	Posted - 2013.11.14 17:44:00 - [10] - Quote I said it before and I'll say it again "DPS is the ugliest word in Dust" And before you say anything I know it's technically 3 words. There are more factors at work here. If it were raw numbers then I would never get a kill using STD gear and I would never be killed by someone if I'm using a higher tier weapon.
Disturbingly Bored The Strontium Asylum 1155	Posted - 2013.11.14 17:44:00 - [11] - Quote Awry Barux wrote: When the weapons come out, we shall see, and THEN if it's bad, you can whine. Until then, hush. Okie doke. We'll just file this over here then for later. ¶Gêƒ__ Gò« Gû¿GûêGûêGûêGòáGëíGëíGëíGû¬ « GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GåÆFAT GATGåÉ pÇûGûôGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæpÇùForum Warrior LV 1 (NEXT: 100/1000XP) ¯Gò¦pÇôpÇù
TcuBe3 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 231	Posted - 2013.11.14 17:53:00 - [12] - Quote So you think based off of numbers you can predict the outcome of weapons usage? Come December I'd almost bet most people aren't going to just drop their Dovulles! I for sure, may be trying other weapons but I'm not going to fully spec into something new that I have little to no proficency / experience in using. Also, from our past experience we know that just because numbers on a chart show us fancy DPS numbers it doesn't reflect what will actually happen on the field. I think someone already hit up on this, we don't know CPU / PG useage, heat buildups, recoil / dispetion, charge up time? ect... Once the new weapons hit the field I think we will get a better picture of what will happen.
Eris Ernaga State Patriots 692	Posted - 2013.11.14 19:34:00 - [13] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: Well i had a look at the new weapons and the current AR. Ive got some quite interesting numbers and give you eventually a hint what to spec into and how it will perform (more or less) -So lets kick it off with the old fashioned duvolle with a DPS of 467 -the six kin assault combat rifle is slightly below it with 464 DPS. But at proto lvl you have 6m additional range! -the Kaalakiota rail rifle comes with 475DPS and the assault variant comes with 480 DPS. And it is the weapon with the highest range off all weapons (apart from sniper rifles and forgeguns) So what oes this tells us? A gun with the bets range and higher DPS then a duvolle is going to cause havok and will demolish AR users regardless of the range. I didnt included the burst rifles cause its a bit too tricky to evaluate the DPS on them but i can tell you allready that the raw damage on the combat (burst) rifle will be much higher then it is on the Allotek Burst AR. My unbiased view is that the AR will follow the same destiny like the dodo. And that is to extinct. The combat rifle has lower fitting cost, slightly better range and very similar DPS. The Raiil rifle will be a deadly tool cause you can outrange every 1 who doesnt wield a forgegun or sniper rifle and have more DPS then both of the above mentioned weapons. And the reason why i didnt included the scrambler or laser rifle is due to their overheat function which makes them only limited effective and if you fight more then 1 guy you overheat and fall over dead faster as you can whack your gun to cooldown. The railgun has kick and spool up. Ba bang baby
Sgt Kirk SyNergy Gaming EoN. 2779	Posted - 2013.11.14 19:37:00 - [14] - Quote Statisticians everywhere are setting themselves on fire after reading your post. The newer the berry the dumber the juice.
Keri Starlight 0uter.Heaven Proficiency V. 2034	Posted - 2013.11.14 19:44:00 - [15] - Quote Remember that the charge up time of the RR is not only a delay, it actually doesn't let you control you fire. You can't stop firing to adjust your aim and, if you do, you are going to lose a 1v1 or you're probably letting a distant target run away. It's going to suck in those situations where you enemy uses cover to get repeatedly in and out. Controlled bursts are not possible with the RR. This is just speculation, of course, we need to test the real weapon... -1.7 ranges: AR 42m -> 48m, TAR 65m -> 60m -Goodbye my love, Tac AR "I load my gun with love instead of bullets"
Ryme Intrinseca Seraphim Auxiliaries 203	Posted - 2013.11.14 20:16:00 - [16] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: Killar-12 wrote: Recoli? Spread? Wind up time? Having to fire a burst weapon? Do any of these come into play? The spool up time is only at the beginning of the fully auto fire and its so minimal that it doesnt matter. If you take the 0.2 second spool into account, for the first second of fire you get DPS of 379.1 for the RR (473.80.8) and 384.4 for the assault RR (480.50.8). This is quite a lot less than the 467 and 464 for the AR and CR. Two seconds of constant fire is 852.8 damage for the RR (1.8473.8), 864.9 for ARR (1.8480.5), 934 for AR, and 928 for CR. So both variants of RR still have something of a DPS disadvantage even under the optimal conditions of two seconds of constant fire. As Keri mentioned, in practice the RR will suffer even more where several controlled bursts are required rather than sustained full auto. My general feeling looking at these numbers is that the RR will dominate at range but ARs and CRs should have an advantage at close quarters.
Nitrobeacon Freek Coalition Freek Alliance 84	Posted - 2013.11.14 20:23:00 - [17] - Quote https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1433026#post1433026
Lynn Beck Granite Mercenary Division Top Men. 234	Posted - 2013.11.14 20:23:00 - [18] - Quote Could we also get the damage per clip and clip unloading times plz? Numbers are everything, and these i feel are the most necessary. -Newly proclaimed Lazor riffle specialist- "You said yourself fantastically 'congratulations you are all alone.'"
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 498	Posted - 2013.11.14 20:29:00 - [19] - Quote Damage: 97.5744 ROF: 705.9 Stats for Imperial ScR, prof 4, 1 complex damage mod. It does have 1147.96 DPS, but not for a very long sustained period (like the AR). Similar mechanic will apply for RR probably. Amarr and Caldari weaponry are alpha damage, long range weapons. KDR > ALL ME > KDR ME > ALL
Thor McStrut Reckoners 376	Posted - 2013.11.14 20:29:00 - [20] - Quote Does the CR fitting cost beat the AR on a Gal. assault? I get a 25% bonus to fitting cost.
Ryme Intrinseca Seraphim Auxiliaries 205	Posted - 2013.11.14 20:46:00 - [21] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: Could we also get the damage per clip and clip unloading times plz? Numbers are everything, and these i feel are the most necessary. I think this is right: Weapon - Damage per clip - Clip unload time (secs) RR - 2587.2 - 5.46 ARR - 2018.1 - 4.2 ACR - 1577.6 - 3.4 AR - 2244 - 4.8
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 10227	Posted - 2013.11.14 20:52:00 - [22] - Quote Bad number crafting. You fail to take into account the charge up time of the Rail Rifle and dispersion effects of prolonged firing. This is a gun you cannot simply feather shoot easily like you can the AR to help reset the dispersion and kick. While true you will outrange a plasma rifle you're going to run into the issue of maintaining accuracy at that distance and be wasting a lot of bullets while the guy shooting back will be dropping the bead on you. Also when doing DPS numbers you need to account for other factors thus a DPM is warranted which would include every stupid little nuance of the gun such as charge time and reloads then throw in the weapons endurance as well. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier Specialist Current Theme \\= Advanced Scrambler Rifle =// Unlocked
Ryme Intrinseca Seraphim Auxiliaries 205	Posted - 2013.11.14 21:04:00 - [23] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Bad number crafting. You fail to take into account the charge up time of the Rail Rifle and dispersion effects of prolonged firing. This is a gun you cannot simply feather shoot easily like you can the AR to help reset the dispersion and kick. While true you will outrange a plasma rifle you're going to run into the issue of maintaining accuracy at that distance and be wasting a lot of bullets while the guy shooting back will be dropping the bead on you. Also when doing DPS numbers you need to account for other factors thus a DPM is warranted which would include every stupid little nuance of the gun such as charge time and reloads then throw in the weapons endurance as well. I already took the charge time into account. See my post on the previous page. We can hardly take dispersion into account when we haven't handled the weapon, can we? Doesn't make our 'number crafting' (a ******* horrible term, but whatever) bad, it's the best we can do with the available data. Reloads should be taken into account, but really it's a secondary consideration unless there are radical differences (e.g. AR versus HMG), which there aren't in this case. DPM is a bit silly as what really matters are the few seconds in that minute where you're going toe to toe. A peashooter with an near infinite clip might have godly DPM but it's a peashooter nevertheless. I should know, I've been using the HMG for the best part of a year
Nova Knife Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 2114	Posted - 2013.11.14 21:06:00 - [24] - Quote IMO, IWS needs to never post in threads like this. Also, FYI the stats for the rr and cr have changed since being posted. So, people should poke wolfman and remnant to get thise and the updated vehicke changes before going into doomsday mode.
Daxxis KANNAH Distinct Covert Initiative 449	Posted - 2013.11.14 21:09:00 - [25] - Quote Nova Knife wrote: IMO, IWS needs to never post in threads like this. Also, FYI the stats for the rr and cr have changed since being posted. So, people should poke wolfman and remnant to get thise and the updated vehicke changes before going into doomsday mode. Trouble in the camp If they changed the numbers why dont they just post them up with fanfare like they did earlier?
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 10229	Posted - 2013.11.14 21:11:00 - [26] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Bad number crafting. You fail to take into account the charge up time of the Rail Rifle and dispersion effects of prolonged firing. This is a gun you cannot simply feather shoot easily like you can the AR to help reset the dispersion and kick. While true you will outrange a plasma rifle you're going to run into the issue of maintaining accuracy at that distance and be wasting a lot of bullets while the guy shooting back will be dropping the bead on you. Also when doing DPS numbers you need to account for other factors thus a DPM is warranted which would include every stupid little nuance of the gun such as charge time and reloads then throw in the weapons endurance as well. I already took the charge time into account. See my post on the previous page. We can hardly take dispersion into account when we haven't handled the weapon, can we? Doesn't make our 'number crafting' (a ******* horrible term, but whatever) bad, it's the best we can do with the available data. Reloads should be taken into account, but really it's a secondary consideration unless there are radical differences (e.g. AR versus HMG), which there aren't in this case. DPM is a bit silly as what really matters are the few seconds in that minute where you're going toe to toe. A peashooter with an near infinite clip might have godly DPM but it's a peashooter nevertheless. I should know, I've been using the HMG for the best part of a year Eve online has missile launcher with an extremely high rate of fire and damage and accuracy but the main drawback is its long reload time. So there is being coined as a 'front loaded' dps which is among the highest of ANY launcher of similar size just about however when you have to reload the weapon and the battle prolongs the overall dps over 15 minutes even drops like a frickin rock to among the lowest of all missile launchers. Reloads, overheats, cooldowns, dispersion resets, reactionary time to trigger to pull to shoot, charge time, spool downtime, ready up time, swap times all have to be taken into account. If your gun has a bad dps to dpm ratio you have a lot of down time with the weapon and in a shooter downtime is bad, thats time you get shot in and being unable to do anything about it. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier Specialist Current Theme \\= Advanced Scrambler Rifle =// Unlocked
DeadlyAztec11 Gallente Federation 2563	Posted - 2013.11.14 21:15:00 - [27] - Quote Damage drop off? I'm pretty sure that the AR's damage will drop off the fastest. Madness is the emergency exit. You can just step outside, and close the door on all those dreadful things that happened.
Keri Starlight 0uter.Heaven Proficiency V. 2041	Posted - 2013.11.14 22:53:00 - [28] - Quote Nova Knife wrote: Also, FYI the stats for the rr and cr have changed since being posted. So, people should poke wolfman and remnant to get thise and the updated vehicke changes before going into doomsday mode. What!? So why don't we have the actual stats? Is this a joke? Can you provide us the real stats, Knife? -1.7 ranges: AR 42m -> 48m, TAR 65m -> 60m -Goodbye my love, Tac AR "I load my gun with love instead of bullets"
Jebus McKing Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 176	Posted - 2013.11.14 23:16:00 - [29] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: The spool up time is only at the beginning of the fully auto fire and its so minimal that it doesnt matter. Ive didnt uncluded the burst variants and only mentioned the DPS for the fully auto rifles. oh boy... The charge up time of the Rail Rifle in fact is so very significant that the Rail Rifle will NEVER be able to catch up on damage output compared to the AR! Here is a spreadsheet I made a while ago: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkgH4oyiFeUAdFpjQW0wRExKazF6empxY0R2Rm9iV3c&usp=sharing#gid=0 Including not only DPS but also stats like 'damage after 1 second' so you can see that the Rail Rifles charge up time is far from "minimal". The AR will probably still deal the most DPS, not by far, but still. And it will also be the easiest weapon to use because it's full-auto and has no other limiting factors other but its low range. @JebusMcKing // Rifle stats comparison spreadsheet. ò_Ô
Powerh8er Norwegian Dust514 Corporation Top Men. 330	Posted - 2013.11.14 23:23:00 - [30] - Quote Git gud.
JDEZ09 Dark Side Alliance 11	Posted - 2013.11.14 23:56:00 - [31] - Quote Jebus McKing wrote: The dark cloud wrote: The spool up time is only at the beginning of the fully auto fire and its so minimal that it doesnt matter. Ive didnt uncluded the burst variants and only mentioned the DPS for the fully auto rifles. oh boy... The charge up time of the Rail Rifle in fact is so very significant that the Rail Rifle will NEVER be able to catch up on damage output compared to the AR! Here is a spreadsheet I made a while ago: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkgH4oyiFeUAdFpjQW0wRExKazF6empxY0R2Rm9iV3c&usp=sharing#gid=0 Including not only DPS but also stats like 'damage after 1 second' so you can see that the Rail Rifles charge up time is far from "minimal". The AR will probably still deal the most DPS, not by far, but still. And it will also be the easiest weapon to use because it's full-auto and has no other limiting factors other but its low range. This is a fantastic spreadsheat bro. I appreciate this because CCPs data sheet gave me a headache. My concern is the hoebaggers that use modded controllers. Imagine a minmatar rifle with higher damage than the full-auto variant.. still shooting at full-auto speeds because they would allow it to be possible. Once they calculate the required trigger intervals to maintain that high dps. This is also reflected across the board with similar weapons. The tac AR got double nerfed.. but still the imperial scrabler rifle is immaculate for an Amarr assault that cheats like this. It should not be possible. I, for one, will NOT exploit these flaws and people who do should be banned from the game. The tac AR glory days were ended abruptly and swiftly because of the RPM exploit, why not prep that accross the board to ensure balance?
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 10237	Posted - 2013.11.15 00:36:00 - [32] - Quote Jebus McKing wrote: The dark cloud wrote: The spool up time is only at the beginning of the fully auto fire and its so minimal that it doesnt matter. Ive didnt uncluded the burst variants and only mentioned the DPS for the fully auto rifles. oh boy... The charge up time of the Rail Rifle in fact is so very significant that the Rail Rifle will NEVER be able to catch up on damage output compared to the AR! Here is a spreadsheet I made a while ago: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkgH4oyiFeUAdFpjQW0wRExKazF6empxY0R2Rm9iV3c&usp=sharing#gid=0 Including not only DPS but also stats like 'damage after 1 second' so you can see that the Rail Rifles charge up time is far from "minimal". The AR will probably still deal the most DPS, not by far, but still. And it will also be the easiest weapon to use because it's full-auto and has no other limiting factors other but its low range. ^ Good number crafter. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier Specialist Current Theme \\= Advanced Scrambler Rifle =// Unlocked
Nova Knife Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 2118	Posted - 2013.11.15 05:35:00 - [33] - Quote Keri Starlight wrote: Nova Knife wrote: Also, FYI the stats for the rr and cr have changed since being posted. So, people should poke wolfman and remnant to get thise and the updated vehicke changes before going into doomsday mode. What!? So why don't we have the actual stats? Is this a joke? Can you provide us the real stats, Knife? I can't, because I don't have them either. All I know is that the stats for the weapons have been adjusted based on feedback. In the case of weapons, the phrase "toned down" was used. So have vehicle stats apparently, but we're still waiting on Remnant to have time to get us those, as well. No idea what changed or in what way, though. This is something we're constantly working on, this communication thing. shrug
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 10256	Posted - 2013.11.15 05:48:00 - [34] - Quote I feel the rail rifle may be good for just close range suppressionn with its kick and dispersion hopefully to be an issue. The combat rifle is going to suffer from constant reload and down time it empties out so damn fast from the looks of it. Accuracy and overshooting could be a real issue for the gun as well. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier Specialist Current Theme \\= Advanced Scrambler Rifle =// Unlocked
Ryme Intrinseca Seraphim Auxiliaries 207	Posted - 2013.11.15 08:00:00 - [35] - Quote JDEZ09 wrote: Jebus McKing wrote: The dark cloud wrote: The spool up time is only at the beginning of the fully auto fire and its so minimal that it doesnt matter. Ive didnt uncluded the burst variants and only mentioned the DPS for the fully auto rifles. oh boy... The charge up time of the Rail Rifle in fact is so very significant that the Rail Rifle will NEVER be able to catch up on damage output compared to the AR! Here is a spreadsheet I made a while ago: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkgH4oyiFeUAdFpjQW0wRExKazF6empxY0R2Rm9iV3c&usp=sharing#gid=0 Including not only DPS but also stats like 'damage after 1 second' so you can see that the Rail Rifles charge up time is far from "minimal". The AR will probably still deal the most DPS, not by far, but still. And it will also be the easiest weapon to use because it's full-auto and has no other limiting factors other but its low range. This is a fantastic spreadsheat bro. I appreciate this because CCPs data sheet gave me a headache. My concern is the hoebaggers that use modded controllers. Imagine a minmatar rifle with higher damage than the full-auto variant.. still shooting at full-auto speeds because they would allow it to be possible. Once they calculate the required trigger intervals to maintain that high dps. This is also reflected across the board with similar weapons. The tac AR got double nerfed.. but still the imperial scrabler rifle is immaculate for an Amarr assault that cheats like this. It should not be possible. I, for one, will NOT exploit these flaws and people who do should be banned from the game. The tac AR glory days were ended abruptly and swiftly because of the RPM exploit, why not prep that accross the board to ensure balance? This. All semi-automatic and burst small arms should be balanced on the assumption that they will be used with turbo controllers. Unfortunately that's the only way to be sure cheaters can't get unfair advantages. The standard versions of the SCR and CR need the RoF dialled back from present/advertised levels so they don't dominate when used with a turbo controller. When will CCP start to learn from their previous mistakes?
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 728	Posted - 2013.11.15 08:22:00 - [36] - Quote The Allotek Burst just got fixed in 1.6 (I pulled it out day 1 since I knew hit detection updates were being implemented again). The Gallente burst is not quite as good as it was in closed beta or Chromosome, but it IS worth using again since it has a slight range advantage over the standard and the bullets all actually REGISTER now. That being said, the Allotek was my favorite rifle in Chromosome. Now they are giving me a higher ROF burst with better fitting requirements that will be easier to fit on my Minmatar medium suit for a slight damage drop? All I can say is BRING IT ON! I'm sure the Minmatar rifles will all have significant recoil if they follow the same standards as the SMG and the HMG, but the full auto version will likely also fill that LMG gap that so many have asked for for the last year+. I don't care how underpowered it is, I'm ALL OVER that Combat Rifle! I'll MAKE it OP! (GÇó_GÇó) ( GÇó_GÇó)>GîÉGûá-Gûá It's time CCP.... (GîÉGûá_Gûá) Increase TTK back to the way it was before....
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 212	Posted - 2013.11.15 08:42:00 - [37] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: I said it before and I'll say it again "DPS is the ugliest word in Dust" And before you say anything I know it's technically 3 words. There are more factors at work here. If it were raw numbers then I would never get a kill using STD gear and I would never be killed by someone if I'm using a higher tier weapon. I think the weapons that will become the most used will be the Scrambler and CR, most likely the assault variants. Note that I did not say best, just what will most likely be used more often. I agree the Scrambler especially the Assault variant will be quite popular as well as the ACR the Assault Scrambler rifle basicly has the same Damage output per second but a much higher damage per clip and range. The overheating doesn't matter I use the CRD-9 and till now it never overheated (and there is still the glitch to by pass overheat). The same is basicly true for ACR and the ACR will have similar accuracy to the AR as there is a sharpshooter skill for that weapon. Regarding the Burst variant ist difficult to rate in theory the DPS output is insane but we have to see whats the delay between bursts... The Rail Rifle will be mostly a severe problem for Laser Rifle users as it makes the LR pretty obsolete.
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 212	Posted - 2013.11.15 08:51:00 - [38] - Quote Jebus McKing wrote: The dark cloud wrote: The spool up time is only at the beginning of the fully auto fire and its so minimal that it doesnt matter. Ive didnt uncluded the burst variants and only mentioned the DPS for the fully auto rifles. oh boy... The charge up time of the Rail Rifle in fact is so very significant that the Rail Rifle will NEVER be able to catch up on damage output compared to the AR! Here is a spreadsheet I made a while ago: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkgH4oyiFeUAdFpjQW0wRExKazF6empxY0R2Rm9iV3c&usp=sharing#gid=0 Including not only DPS but also stats like 'damage after 1 second' so you can see that the Rail Rifles charge up time is far from "minimal". The AR will probably still deal the most DPS, not by far, but still. And it will also be the easiest weapon to use because it's full-auto and has no other limiting factors other but its low range. You are right technically the gallente AR deals the most DPS but thats on paper. Compared to Assault Scrambler Rifle it gets a difference of 2! DPS compared to the Assault Combamt Rifle of 6. BUT both weapons have bigger clips and more Range its highly quistionable that the small DPS advantage will balance that out.
Ryme Intrinseca Seraphim Auxiliaries 208	Posted - 2013.11.15 11:48:00 - [39] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: Jebus McKing wrote: The dark cloud wrote: The spool up time is only at the beginning of the fully auto fire and its so minimal that it doesnt matter. Ive didnt uncluded the burst variants and only mentioned the DPS for the fully auto rifles. oh boy... The charge up time of the Rail Rifle in fact is so very significant that the Rail Rifle will NEVER be able to catch up on damage output compared to the AR! Here is a spreadsheet I made a while ago: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkgH4oyiFeUAdFpjQW0wRExKazF6empxY0R2Rm9iV3c&usp=sharing#gid=0 Including not only DPS but also stats like 'damage after 1 second' so you can see that the Rail Rifles charge up time is far from "minimal". The AR will probably still deal the most DPS, not by far, but still. And it will also be the easiest weapon to use because it's full-auto and has no other limiting factors other but its low range. You are right technically the gallente AR deals the most DPS but thats on paper. Compared to Assault Scrambler Rifle it gets a difference of 2! DPS compared to the Assault Combamt Rifle of 6. BUT both weapons have bigger clips and more Range its highly quistionable that the small DPS advantage will balance that out. You have a point about the ASCR. However, while the ACR has a larger clip, each bullet does much less damage, so the ACR has much less damage available in each clip (see my numbers in the first post on this page). That's a massive drawback in my book. For instance, against a heavy with a couple of plates you'd have to land every shot to take him down in one clip, whereas an AR can afford to miss a third of its shots. (This is all based on the numbers CCP have published thus far.)
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 213	Posted - 2013.11.15 12:16:00 - [40] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Korvin Lomont wrote: Jebus McKing wrote: The dark cloud wrote: The spool up time is only at the beginning of the fully auto fire and its so minimal that it doesnt matter. Ive didnt uncluded the burst variants and only mentioned the DPS for the fully auto rifles. oh boy... The charge up time of the Rail Rifle in fact is so very significant that the Rail Rifle will NEVER be able to catch up on damage output compared to the AR! Here is a spreadsheet I made a while ago: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkgH4oyiFeUAdFpjQW0wRExKazF6empxY0R2Rm9iV3c&usp=sharing#gid=0 Including not only DPS but also stats like 'damage after 1 second' so you can see that the Rail Rifles charge up time is far from "minimal". The AR will probably still deal the most DPS, not by far, but still. And it will also be the easiest weapon to use because it's full-auto and has no other limiting factors other but its low range. You are right technically the gallente AR deals the most DPS but thats on paper. Compared to Assault Scrambler Rifle it gets a difference of 2! DPS compared to the Assault Combamt Rifle of 6. BUT both weapons have bigger clips and more Range its highly quistionable that the small DPS advantage will balance that out. You have a point about the ASCR. However, while the ACR has a larger clip, each bullet does much less damage, so the ACR has much less damage available in each clip (see my numbers in the first post on this page). That's a massive drawback in my book. For instance, against a heavy with a couple of plates you'd have to land every shot to take him down in one clip, whereas an AR can afford to miss a third of its shots. (This is all based on the numbers CCP have published thus far.) You are right about the Clip per Damage on the ACR but if you compare them the ACR still gets roughly 15% more Range and has only something around 1.5% DPS less and is able to deal the full amount of Damage more quickly leaving less time to reach cover or to back up. So in general I would say the ACR will beat the AR anytime as long as you do not encounter an armor tanked heavy. And the AsCR will most likely beat the AR even under that circumstances. Given the fact that the GAL Ar should be better in CQC I think CCP has failed with the new weapons regarding the roles each of them should have.

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