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Ryme Intrinseca
Seraphim Auxiliaries
203
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Posted - 2013.11.14 20:16:00 -
[1] - Quote
The dark cloud wrote:Killar-12 wrote:Recoli? Spread? Wind up time? Having to fire a burst weapon? Do any of these come into play? The spool up time is only at the beginning of the fully auto fire and its so minimal that it doesnt matter.
If you take the 0.2 second spool into account, for the first second of fire you get DPS of 379.1 for the RR (473.8*0.8) and 384.4 for the assault RR (480.5*0.8). This is quite a lot less than the 467 and 464 for the AR and CR.
Two seconds of constant fire is 852.8 damage for the RR (1.8*473.8), 864.9 for ARR (1.8*480.5), 934 for AR, and 928 for CR. So both variants of RR still have something of a DPS disadvantage even under the optimal conditions of two seconds of constant fire. As Keri mentioned, in practice the RR will suffer even more where several controlled bursts are required rather than sustained full auto.
My general feeling looking at these numbers is that the RR will dominate at range but ARs and CRs should have an advantage at close quarters. |
Ryme Intrinseca
Seraphim Auxiliaries
205
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Posted - 2013.11.14 20:46:00 -
[2] - Quote
Lynn Beck wrote:Could we also get the damage per clip and clip unloading times plz? Numbers are everything, and these i feel are the most necessary.
I think this is right:
Weapon - Damage per clip - Clip unload time (secs)
RR - 2587.2 - 5.46
ARR - 2018.1 - 4.2
ACR - 1577.6 - 3.4
AR - 2244 - 4.8 |
Ryme Intrinseca
Seraphim Auxiliaries
205
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Posted - 2013.11.14 21:04:00 -
[3] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Bad number crafting.
You fail to take into account the charge up time of the Rail Rifle and dispersion effects of prolonged firing. This is a gun you cannot simply feather shoot easily like you can the AR to help reset the dispersion and kick. While true you will outrange a plasma rifle you're going to run into the issue of maintaining accuracy at that distance and be wasting a lot of bullets while the guy shooting back will be dropping the bead on you.
Also when doing DPS numbers you need to account for other factors thus a DPM is warranted which would include every stupid little nuance of the gun such as charge time and reloads then throw in the weapons endurance as well.
I already took the charge time into account. See my post on the previous page.
We can hardly take dispersion into account when we haven't handled the weapon, can we? Doesn't make our 'number crafting' (a ******* horrible term, but whatever) bad, it's the best we can do with the available data.
Reloads should be taken into account, but really it's a secondary consideration unless there are radical differences (e.g. AR versus HMG), which there aren't in this case.
DPM is a bit silly as what really matters are the few seconds in that minute where you're going toe to toe. A peashooter with an near infinite clip might have godly DPM but it's a peashooter nevertheless. I should know, I've been using the HMG for the best part of a year  |
Ryme Intrinseca
Seraphim Auxiliaries
207
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Posted - 2013.11.15 08:00:00 -
[4] - Quote
JDEZ09 wrote:Jebus McKing wrote:The dark cloud wrote:
The spool up time is only at the beginning of the fully auto fire and its so minimal that it doesnt matter. Ive didnt uncluded the burst variants and only mentioned the DPS for the fully auto rifles.
oh boy... The charge up time of the Rail Rifle in fact is so very significant that the Rail Rifle will NEVER be able to catch up on damage output compared to the AR! Here is a spreadsheet I made a while ago: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkgH4oyiFeUAdFpjQW0wRExKazF6empxY0R2Rm9iV3c&usp=sharing#gid=0Including not only DPS but also stats like 'damage after 1 second' so you can see that the Rail Rifles charge up time is far from "minimal". The AR will probably still deal the most DPS, not by far, but still. And it will also be the easiest weapon to use because it's full-auto and has no other limiting factors other but its low range. This is a fantastic spreadsheat bro. I appreciate this because CCPs data sheet gave me a headache. My concern is the hoebaggers that use modded controllers. Imagine a minmatar rifle with higher damage than the full-auto variant.. still shooting at full-auto speeds because they would allow it to be possible. Once they calculate the required trigger intervals to maintain that high dps. This is also reflected across the board with similar weapons. The tac AR got double nerfed.. but still the imperial scrabler rifle is immaculate for an Amarr assault that cheats like this. It should not be possible. I, for one, will NOT exploit these flaws and people who do should be banned from the game. The tac AR glory days were ended abruptly and swiftly because of the RPM exploit, why not prep that accross the board to ensure balance?
This.
All semi-automatic and burst small arms should be balanced on the assumption that they will be used with turbo controllers. Unfortunately that's the only way to be sure cheaters can't get unfair advantages. The standard versions of the SCR and CR need the RoF dialled back from present/advertised levels so they don't dominate when used with a turbo controller. When will CCP start to learn from their previous mistakes? |
Ryme Intrinseca
Seraphim Auxiliaries
208
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Posted - 2013.11.15 11:48:00 -
[5] - Quote
Korvin Lomont wrote:Jebus McKing wrote:The dark cloud wrote:
The spool up time is only at the beginning of the fully auto fire and its so minimal that it doesnt matter. Ive didnt uncluded the burst variants and only mentioned the DPS for the fully auto rifles.
oh boy... The charge up time of the Rail Rifle in fact is so very significant that the Rail Rifle will NEVER be able to catch up on damage output compared to the AR! Here is a spreadsheet I made a while ago: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkgH4oyiFeUAdFpjQW0wRExKazF6empxY0R2Rm9iV3c&usp=sharing#gid=0Including not only DPS but also stats like 'damage after 1 second' so you can see that the Rail Rifles charge up time is far from "minimal". The AR will probably still deal the most DPS, not by far, but still. And it will also be the easiest weapon to use because it's full-auto and has no other limiting factors other but its low range. You are right technically the gallente AR deals the most DPS but thats on paper. Compared to Assault Scrambler Rifle it gets a difference of 2! DPS compared to the Assault Combamt Rifle of 6. BUT both weapons have bigger clips and more Range its highly quistionable that the small DPS advantage will balance that out.
You have a point about the ASCR. However, while the ACR has a larger clip, each bullet does much less damage, so the ACR has much less damage available in each clip (see my numbers in the first post on this page). That's a massive drawback in my book. For instance, against a heavy with a couple of plates you'd have to land every shot to take him down in one clip, whereas an AR can afford to miss a third of its shots. (This is all based on the numbers CCP have published thus far.) |
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